The reason top should really be banned is because it makes games drag on FOREVER and is virtually indestructible barring Krosan Grip and Stifle + Shatter effects. I hope we don't see it, because then every EDH game I play will take 3 hours to finish.
Lightning Greaves would be cool. It's been reprinted several times, but is still very high, and is a staple in most decks.
In a multiplayer game, there is no reason Tops should slow anything down. There is so much downtime on other people's turns.
Pay attention wizards. Don't bother putting anything decent in anything, just add top to anything commander related if you want it to sell because apparently edh is all about rearranging the top three cards of your library and occasionay drawing a card.
I'd take anything remotely useful over top. The less top the better. If any card should he banned it's that, simply because I'm sick of hearing it brought up everytime a commander product is mentioned. "wizards is making over sized game mats for edh!!! I hope it comes with a free top because that's the only reason I'd buy it!!!"
I'd rather them reprint stuff that is actually enjoyable, useful, and relevant then some stupid annoying artifact that adds 20 minutes to every game because people are obsessed with looking at one new card before their turn.
I am honestly not sure if you are just trolling right.
Must be troll, you said that top is a bad card lol
It's a stable in EDH because it's a good card.
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
The reason top should really be banned is because it makes games drag on FOREVER and is virtually indestructible barring Krosan Grip and Stifle + Shatter effects. I hope we don't see it, because then every EDH game I play will take 3 hours to finish.
Lightning Greaves would be cool. It's been reprinted several times, but is still very high, and is a staple in most decks.
That is where social pressure factors in. If you are player #1 and at the end of player #4's turn you top, you will get made fun and ganged up on. There is making the theoretical "ideal move" and there is the ideal move. Being considerate of other peoples' time is usually the way to go.
Top might be there and it might not.... not really thinking it will, but also wouldn't be shocked if it were.
it was a portrait of Swedish mtg player Jens Thoren (it was his invitational card).
i agree both that it should almost be an auto-include in all the commander products and that it could use some new art.
I want the Heavenly Inferno just because the art on the cover looks the best :P. Don't play much EDH so I'm hoping these decks give a really good base.
I am honestly not sure if you are just trolling right.
Must be troll, you said that top is a bad card lol
It's a stable in EDH because it's a good card.
No, I'm not trolling. In certain decks top is great, in others it's useless. I'm sick of hive mind edh players thinking the second they pick a general the next two cards they think of is; top, sol ring. Its great wizards is supporting edh with per-cons and other products. It's pathetic when discussing said products everyone could care less about it's contents unless top is involved.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Every deck could benefit from a top except perhaps the 99 mountain Ashling the Pilgrim deck. Even then, if someone's playing heavy tuck, it might actually be worth it to run top.
Controlling the top 3 of your library is pretty useful.
The reason top should really be banned is because it makes games drag on FOREVER and is virtually indestructible barring Krosan Grip and Stifle + Shatter effects. I hope we don't see it, because then every EDH game I play will take 3 hours to finish.
Lightning Greaves would be cool. It's been reprinted several times, but is still very high, and is a staple in most decks.
Actually the reason why it should be banned is because if Commander brings on tournaments more often, all you're going to see is Top/Etherium Sculptor/Future Sight storm combo decks that whipe the whole table. Every "large" event I've ever played has had these stupid things flying around. Sometimes winning as fast as turn 4-5 as well.
I think there are a few more combos that just win than that, no? I despise combo in every format of MtG so I don't really explore its workings. I've see jund decks just win out of nowhere with hermit druid or Tooth and Nail. Black Green just has far to much tutoring. I vehemently disagree with the rules committee's attitude of "well if we ban X then we will have to ban Y" its total B.S. the current card pool makes for the most broken format there is. A dozen more cards or so would go a long way to clean things up.
Bah wish they would give us some more spoilers so we can have something besides asides to talk about!
Actually the reason why it should be banned is because if Commander brings on tournaments more often, all you're going to see is Top/Etherium Sculptor/Future Sight storm combo decks that whipe the whole table. Every "large" event I've ever played has had these stupid things flying around. Sometimes winning as fast as turn 4-5 as well.
I feel every EDH deck worth anything should run artifact/enchantment/graveyard hate. You don't have to kill the top, you can kill the Sculptor, or even the enchantment and blow the graveyard. EDH isn't meant to be sanctioned and I don't feel the top should be banned, not only is it in no manner broken but EDH is a casual format. You have 100 cards to work some form of a solution into your deck if it is really a problem, I personally double up on creatures that blow things up when they come into play. If you aren't playing some removal in your deck or countermagic to deal with such shenanigans, you deserve to lose to such nonsense.
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Avid EDH player GWUPhelddagrif----------------GWRhys, the Redeemed----------UBRLord of Tresserhorn--------XKozilek, Butcher of Truth WUBRGProgenitus---------------BGWKarador, Ghost Chieftain---URGIntet, the Dreamer---------RGWort, the Raidmother BGSavra-----------------------RGMarhault Elsdragon----------UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir------UWHanna, Ship's Navigator BSkithiryx the Blight Dragon--RWUZedruu the Greathearted----BRelentless Rats------------BRUNicol Bolas
While I agree... those "spikey" tournament level EDH decks have also thought of this. They blow up your lands, take extra turns, counter your threats, or even worse... sit back and let everyone fight over who has the biggest threat on the board and wait till everyone is tapped out to drop everything in one turn.
And yes Chromatone... I've seen all kinds of fast kill combos at large prize events for EDH... it's just the Top ones that clear the table the quickest.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to play EDH... but to say that it's as easy as killing a threat in "tournament level EDH" is assuming that they aren't prepared for you to do so. Remember, the Storm EDH decks all run blue...
Top shouldn't be banned for the obvious reason of the card itself being as harmless as it is versatile-want to stop storm combo? take out the problematic cards such as Future Sight. People would still complain, but the damage done to overall deckbuilding would be far less.
So what, you whipe out an archetype people don't like. It's not like that doesn't happen with regularity all the time in MTG.
I second Travy all the way.
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Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
"You heard it here folks:
Anyone who disagrees with "Jack from NC" is an idiot."-The Dead Weatherman
Playing without Top if you own one is like playing green without Sylvan Library.
MADNESS!!!!
Actually, I don't run Top. My shuffle effects are too sparse to justify playing it. I do play a nice FBB Spanish Sylvan Library, which does so much more than Top.
Honestly, if you're playing green and have access to Mirri's Guile, it's much more effective mana for mana than Top. Being creative is part of what makes Commander so good. Following the crowd's "staple list" is going to choke you out of card options that are much better for you. Try some stuff out, you may be surprised.
Actually, I don't run Top. My shuffle effects are too sparse to justify playing it. I do play a nice FBB Spanish Sylvan Library, which does so much more than Top.
Honestly, if you're playing green and have access to Mirri's Guile, it's much more effective mana for mana than Top. Being creative is part of what makes Commander so good. Following the crowd's "staple list" is going to choke you out of card options that are much better for you. Try some stuff out, you may be surprised.
There are a lot of players who use this line as an excuse not to acquire the best cards. Not saying you are, and I am all for creativity in deckbuilding, but there are very few decks that don't want a Top.
And if you run so few shuffle effects, why is Sylvan Library any good in the first place?
There are a lot of players who use this line as an excuse not to acquire the best cards. Not saying you are, and I am all for creativity in deckbuilding, but there are very few decks that don't want a Top.
And if you run so few shuffle effects, why is Sylvan Library any good in the first place?
Because it can 1) let you draw 2 extra cards for 8 life, 2) let you get two free "instead of drawing a card effects" per turn.
Notably, Green has a four mana enchantment whos name excapes me right now that lets you say "instead of drawing I'm going to put the next land or non-land card in my deck into my hand" Work wonders with library.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
Anyone have a list of all the invitational cards and the players?
I could see Shadowmage Infiltrator possibly being in one of the decks. Solemn Simulcrum could fit in any deck. Has there been any Red, Green, or White colored Invitational cards?
RRR in Wedge colored deck using a budget mana base? I suppose it could happen, but they want people to be able to play the cards they put in there. I suspect we won't see anything that intense.
I agree the mana cost is tricky. Really the only reason I said that was because that box is called "Mirror Mastery." And that box seems to want to copy spells. Guaranteeing was a bit strong I guess, heh.
@Mrdowntoearth: I agree artifact Jens needs new art. For reals.
I really hope some of the reprints have new art. How badass would a new border, new art Future Sight be? Or Academy Rector?
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In a multiplayer game, there is no reason Tops should slow anything down. There is so much downtime on other people's turns.
I am honestly not sure if you are just trolling right.
Must be troll, you said that top is a bad card lol
It's a stable in EDH because it's a good card.
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
That is where social pressure factors in. If you are player #1 and at the end of player #4's turn you top, you will get made fun and ganged up on. There is making the theoretical "ideal move" and there is the ideal move. Being considerate of other peoples' time is usually the way to go.
Top might be there and it might not.... not really thinking it will, but also wouldn't be shocked if it were.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Most people try to Top at the last possible second before their turn, so as to acquire as much information as possible.
Galspanic - yeah. I wouldn't be surprised either.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
Only if we get some good art on it. What's wrong with that thing?
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
JAMMIT DIM! I'm a DOCTOR not a DECKBUILDER!
it was a portrait of Swedish mtg player Jens Thoren (it was his invitational card).
i agree both that it should almost be an auto-include in all the commander products and that it could use some new art.
It's solemn.
No, I'm not trolling. In certain decks top is great, in others it's useless. I'm sick of hive mind edh players thinking the second they pick a general the next two cards they think of is; top, sol ring. Its great wizards is supporting edh with per-cons and other products. It's pathetic when discussing said products everyone could care less about it's contents unless top is involved.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Controlling the top 3 of your library is pretty useful.
MADNESS!!!!
Actually the reason why it should be banned is because if Commander brings on tournaments more often, all you're going to see is Top/Etherium Sculptor/Future Sight storm combo decks that whipe the whole table. Every "large" event I've ever played has had these stupid things flying around. Sometimes winning as fast as turn 4-5 as well.
Bah wish they would give us some more spoilers so we can have something besides asides to talk about!
I feel every EDH deck worth anything should run artifact/enchantment/graveyard hate. You don't have to kill the top, you can kill the Sculptor, or even the enchantment and blow the graveyard. EDH isn't meant to be sanctioned and I don't feel the top should be banned, not only is it in no manner broken but EDH is a casual format. You have 100 cards to work some form of a solution into your deck if it is really a problem, I personally double up on creatures that blow things up when they come into play. If you aren't playing some removal in your deck or countermagic to deal with such shenanigans, you deserve to lose to such nonsense.
GWUPhelddagrif----------------GWRhys, the Redeemed----------UBRLord of Tresserhorn--------XKozilek, Butcher of Truth
WUBRGProgenitus---------------BGWKarador, Ghost Chieftain---URGIntet, the Dreamer---------RGWort, the Raidmother
BGSavra-----------------------RGMarhault Elsdragon----------UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir------UWHanna, Ship's Navigator
BSkithiryx the Blight Dragon--RWUZedruu the Greathearted----BRelentless Rats------------BRUNicol Bolas
And yes Chromatone... I've seen all kinds of fast kill combos at large prize events for EDH... it's just the Top ones that clear the table the quickest.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to play EDH... but to say that it's as easy as killing a threat in "tournament level EDH" is assuming that they aren't prepared for you to do so. Remember, the Storm EDH decks all run blue...
So what, you whipe out an archetype people don't like. It's not like that doesn't happen with regularity all the time in MTG.
I second Travy all the way.
Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
Actually, I don't run Top. My shuffle effects are too sparse to justify playing it. I do play a nice FBB Spanish Sylvan Library, which does so much more than Top.
Honestly, if you're playing green and have access to Mirri's Guile, it's much more effective mana for mana than Top. Being creative is part of what makes Commander so good. Following the crowd's "staple list" is going to choke you out of card options that are much better for you. Try some stuff out, you may be surprised.
There are a lot of players who use this line as an excuse not to acquire the best cards. Not saying you are, and I am all for creativity in deckbuilding, but there are very few decks that don't want a Top.
And if you run so few shuffle effects, why is Sylvan Library any good in the first place?
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Because it can 1) let you draw 2 extra cards for 8 life, 2) let you get two free "instead of drawing a card effects" per turn.
Notably, Green has a four mana enchantment whos name excapes me right now that lets you say "instead of drawing I'm going to put the next land or non-land card in my deck into my hand" Work wonders with library.
Some artifact or enchantment for 1
"If a card would go on top of it's owner's library from anywhere, put that card into it's owner's graveyard instead."
There, see? It's not so hard. They just need to print it.
I could see Shadowmage Infiltrator possibly being in one of the decks. Solemn Simulcrum could fit in any deck. Has there been any Red, Green, or White colored Invitational cards?
The MTGS Wiki has a page: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Magic_Invitational
1 Ulamog 1 ◊ W Avacyn W ◊ U Memnarch U ◊ B Endrek B ◊ R Urabrask R ◊ G Yeva G
I agree the mana cost is tricky. Really the only reason I said that was because that box is called "Mirror Mastery." And that box seems to want to copy spells. Guaranteeing was a bit strong I guess, heh.
@Mrdowntoearth: I agree artifact Jens needs new art. For reals.
I really hope some of the reprints have new art. How badass would a new border, new art Future Sight be? Or Academy Rector?