massacre wurm seems like a card that could be good or bad depending upon the way the metagame shapes up. I mean, he trades with titans, but the black one will leave your opponent holding 2 zombies. Then there is the blue one dominates outright. If the format shapes up to be elves, vampires, & white weenie then this guy might be a decent spoiler.
For all the naysayers that complain that they guy is too small to battle with baneslayer & doesn't have evasion, that's what skinwing is for right? lol, j/k
I'm surprised no one mentioned this guy along side genesis wave yet. Hitting multiples seems pretty sick!
I <3 the wurm, so very much. I will try to play it somehow, in some deck, and it will be glorious. Plus it works very well against a friend's artifact weenie and elf decks.
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
I would rather play Grave Titan. Black has enough sweepers, if you ask me.
That's kind of my reaction to this card. It's a good card, but standard is saturated with good five/six drops right now, and thanks partly to other cards in it's own set, black is saturated with sweepers as well. Most of those 5/6 drops also happen to hose aggro as well. This seems like a design that could have waited a set or two. Even it's flavour is already kinda redundant because of Wurmcoil Engine.
In contrast, Thrun and the Heroes are interesting because they bring Titan-level power relative to their smaller cost, which the game needs more of right now. Especially with the flavour of the set, I would have preferred something that contributes to an aggressive strategy.
nothing for nothing, but whats stopping me from casting this guy as well as setting off my ratchet bomb? seems like no matter which way you slice it, this guy finishes off elves and vamps for decks.
If not, next turn ill consume the meek or black sun zenith to make sure of it. That is if my ratchet bomb doesnt go off first
Because under this scenario you have somehow let an agro deck get a board full of creatures and still have them on turn 7+ and our for some reason not dead.
Your killing, countering those creatures or neutering them some other way as you go or the agro deck is winning for those 7 turns.
For the wurm to be good you need to have been losing against agro for 7 turns and somehow not be dead yet.
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Saki, Tsumo After Kon needed to be banned sadly. But I wish we could have kept Saki Miyanaga past the rotation.
Trading two of your cards to deal with one of his is really bad in a control matchup. For exactly the same reason that killing 2+ of an aggro player's creatures with one spell is a game-winning blowout, actually.
Yeah my problem with this guy is there is no follow up and he requires really weird board presence to be good to start,
The other 6 drops are gifts that keep giving. This guy maybe 2 creatures or so (again, if he hits more agro has had a table full of creatures in the late game and at the same time control has not lost. This not exactly a scenario that happens.) and then is "opponent takes 2 life a turn" at the late game.
A Grave Titan or Wurmcoil is just good when ever you drop it.
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Saki, Tsumo After Kon needed to be banned sadly. But I wish we could have kept Saki Miyanaga past the rotation.
In contrast, Thrun and the Heroes are interesting because they bring Titan-level power relative to their smaller cost, which the game needs more of right now. Especially with the flavour of the set, I would have preferred something that contributes to an aggressive strategy.
Yeah. Not sold on White yet (and white is my color) but I think Red Hero is amazingly good. I will certainly give the White one a college try though. Thrun is just amazing for his cost and the result he going to get and good against nearly any type of deck.
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Saki, Tsumo After Kon needed to be banned sadly. But I wish we could have kept Saki Miyanaga past the rotation.
e;ves regen leader does nothing against him avenger tokens might not get big the turn they played avenger as they might have to use all mana that turn just to get them out
this comes out earlier than turn 7, especially with decks that use chalice
carnifex is in no way better, you have to pay 8 for his ability even thoug hcounters are permanent, or wait another turn, this hits immediatly, and also has graveyard effect
it might not see competitive type 2 play, but it is far from horrible
Better in limited. Your not exactly getting a chalice in BS SOM SOM are you? And Carnifex does not die to green dinosaur spam. And still works ok if you are drafting blacks main attack in block - poison. Wurm is a non-infect creature which will be the first time their life drops from 20 for any reason in an infect deck. And it likely won't drop again.
In Standard: three black in a mono back with chalice is earlier yes, but mono black was not missing a good six drop or ways to deal with small creatures. This card does not get it to mono. It needs a 4 cast sweeper.* Three black mana in UB is pure late game.
* BSZ might get it there though.
And I started with saying he is fun.
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Saki, Tsumo After Kon needed to be banned sadly. But I wish we could have kept Saki Miyanaga past the rotation.
I don't get the comparison, Grave Titan gives you some zombies, 1/turn exactly and it has to attack, so it does nothing right away, well except giving you its initial token.
The Wurm is played on the same turn, obliterates opposing creatures or army and deals lots of damage to the opponent, then your own army may attack the same turn with almost no opposition.
Played right, this wurm can easily waste 10 or more life the turn you play it, then you just destroy your opponents creatures with spells like Doom blade, Shriekmaw, Gatekeeper of Malakir or Sudden Death or whatever, making them lose even more life and let your wurm rampage through their life total to finish the job.
In decks that run 4 Grave Titans, it would be easy to replace 2 of those with 2 wurms, to give a more diverse array of abilities to the deck.
In fact, the only problem with this wurm is the fact that he doesn't have flash.
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If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it!
I don't get the comparison, Grave Titan gives you some zombies, 1/turn exactly and it has to attack, so it does nothing right away, well except giving you its initial token.
The Wurm is played on the same turn, obliterates opposing creatures or army and deals lots of damage to the opponent, then your own army may attack the same turn with almost no opposition.
Played right, this wurm can easily waste 10 or more life the turn you play it, then you just destroy your opponents creatures with spells like Doom blade, Shriekmaw, Gatekeeper of Malakir or Sudden Death or whatever, making them lose even more life and let your wurm rampage through their life total to finish the job.
In decks that run 4 Grave Titans, it would be easy to replace 2 of those with 2 wurms, to give a more diverse array of abilities to the deck.
In fact, the only problem with this wurm is the fact that he doesn't have flash.
what? Grave Titan gives you two zombies when it hits play or swings, and it's a 6/6 deathtouch on top of it.
this thing is just a 'pyroclasm' on big legs, and while that goes far it might not go far enough until the Titans rotate out. this thing suffers the same problem the Sphinx does.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
what? Grave Titan gives you two zombies when it hits play or swings, and it's a 6/6 deathtouch on top of it.
this thing is just a 'pyroclasm' on big legs, and while that goes far it might not go far enough until the Titans rotate out. this thing suffers the same problem the Sphinx does.
Deathtouch on a 6/6 is kind of irrelevant, because it's gonna kill other creatures anyway, while I agree that Grave titan is strong, I think that Wurm is easily on par with it but they may not fit in the same kind of deck.
First, the -2/-2 only affects the opponent's creatures, which means no waste of small creatures for you and your opponent board will be severely damaged and so will his life total. Grave titan gives you two 2/2 and some more over a few turns, and isn't even a Zombie himself.
The wurm wipes the board for you right away while dealing heavy damage with its ability. You don't even need to attack with it, just build a strong defense and blast your opponent creatures with any spell like Doom Blade, Eyeblight Ending or whatever and watch their life total sink down very fast.
But on the other hand, Grave Titan is way better at growing your own force, instead of reducing your opponent's army, but if he dies the turn you play him, you got 2 zombies, if the wurm dies the turn you played it, if you played it right, it will already have done a lot of disruption for your opponent.
I don't know about tournaments, but in casual, I would pick the wurm over the titan anytime and would gladly trade a playset of Grave Titan for a playset of Massacre Wurms. (well except maybe for the monetary value:))
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If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it!
I could see MD Grave Titan and Massacre Worm in the SB to swap out for certain MUs that will still be played for a while, e.g. Boros as mentioned, and Infect. MBC has another bomb.
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Alright, thread. I've completely read you, and I have a few things to say.
#1 - Massacre is now officially known as LOLwurm. Kudos, Crimson. All in favor, agree on the back of your meaningful future post.
#2 - Nobody cares if a Mythic is a 'bomb in Limited'. Mythics on average will appear 3 per pod. If you're lucksack enough to get a mythic, let alone a playable one, saying its a bomb is sorta wassnames... a given.
#3 - Some of you are clearly spoiled by M11. You are all hungry for that card that's better than the best creature RIGHT NOW, rather than the one that will be post-rotation. It's almost assured that Titans and BSA are not coming back - this guy and his Wurmcoil pal will achieve great things, then (along with every other uber fun/interesting creature that had to sit around and suck compared to those jerks). Powercreep has taken firm hold of your souls. Consider yourself lucky that I'm not in charge - I'd nip power creep right in the bud. This time next year you'd all be playing Homarid Spawning Bed, Abbey Gargoyles, and Hungry Mists and liking it!
#4 - His CIP ability certainly enables and fuels his 2nd ability, but his 2nd ability sticks around. I notice a lot of people ignoring that - every removal spell gets a Shock tattooed to it once he's in play.
#5 - It's obvious that MBC will be a presence in the meta of FNMs all over the country after MBS becomes tourney legal, if only to try it - and this guy is a natural fit within it. Also - with Memoricide to common to strip away win conditions within MBC (they always got my freakin' Grave Titans) it's nice to have a total of 3 good critters to run (Titan, Wurmcoil, LOLwurm).
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Mr. Fu, your leaving of MTGnews' humor forum killed it. KILLLED IT!
I love how horribly living weapons turned out to be. It's such an awesome mechanic, and they treated it like garbage. not one good one. It's like, they went out of their way to make them bad.
I love how horribly living weapons turned out to be. It's such an awesome mechanic, and they treated it like garbage. not one good one. It's like, they went out of their way to make them bad.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there - and I believe the pre-release will prove you wrong. All of them will have a big impact on Limited play - and will make people make mistakes with their removal. You didn't really expect some kinda crazy standard bomb Living Weapon, did you?
Oh wait, there's still a possibility of a Skullclampy Thing...
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Mr. Fu, your leaving of MTGnews' humor forum killed it. KILLLED IT!
Yeah..I kinda did expect a decent living weapon for standard. Whoopty-doo living weapon is good in limited ****ing everything is good in limited jesus.
Alright, thread. I've completely read you, and I have a few things to say.
#1 - Massacre is now officially known as LOLwurm. Kudos, Crimson. All in favor, agree on the back of your meaningful future post.
#2 - Nobody cares if a Mythic is a 'bomb in Limited'. Mythics on average will appear 3 per pod. If you're lucksack enough to get a mythic, let alone a playable one, saying its a bomb is sorta wassnames... a given.
#3 - Some of you are clearly spoiled by M11. You are all hungry for that card that's better than the best creature RIGHT NOW, rather than the one that will be post-rotation. It's almost assured that Titans and BSA are not coming back - this guy and his Wurmcoil pal will achieve great things, then (along with every other uber fun/interesting creature that had to sit around and suck compared to those jerks). Powercreep has taken firm hold of your souls. Consider yourself lucky that I'm not in charge - I'd nip power creep right in the bud. This time next year you'd all be playing Homarid Spawning Bed, Abbey Gargoyles, and Hungry Mists and liking it!
#4 - His CIP ability certainly enables and fuels his 2nd ability, but his 2nd ability sticks around. I notice a lot of people ignoring that - every removal spell gets a Shock tattooed to it once he's in play.
#5 - It's obvious that MBC will be a presence in the meta of FNMs all over the country after MBS becomes tourney legal, if only to try it - and this guy is a natural fit within it. Also - with Memoricide to common to strip away win conditions within MBC (they always got my freakin' Grave Titans) it's nice to have a total of 3 good critters to run (Titan, Wurmcoil, LOLwurm).
I could not agree more. The same could be said of PWs and JTMS vis a vis the Tezzeret 2.0 critics holding an extremely disproportionate power from what is now the all too high benchmark for anything subsequent to match it, such that if something new is even more powerful we are looking at a ban before rotation. Massacre Wurm, the more I think about it, is insanely good for turning a game around in favor of a MBC or perhaps a two color deck that splashes in another color. With Black Sun's Zenith, GFTT, and "lol Wurm," as it is now being affectionately nicknamed, black has so much control against aggro.
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Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking. -Albert Einstein
Damn that's a huge disappointment. I was waiting to see the black mythic. Now I see that POS. Its a limited bomb inside a color that wants to run infect. Everything in black in this set that isn't infect is pretty bad to begin with and highly overcosted.
-2/-2 isn't that big of a deal after MBS. Most of scars is small creatures but MBS has a lot of 3+ toughness creatures.
Standard: no
extended: no
legacy: no
Now put his ability on an enchantment and now we'd be doing some work.
Extended no? If you resolve this against Faeries, you probably win right there. It's actually more powerful against them then Cruel Ultimatum, and a lot easier to cast. The 2 life is huge, even if the wurm itself doesn't kill every creature.
So, we strip the crap off an uncommon creature, take a good uncommon sweep, neuter a meh part of half a crap rare and mix them. This somehow produces a mythic..... right.
Best part about there being players who hate on new sets/new cards - they trade them to you at the pre-release for what ends up being a bargain later every time. Love it; whine more, everybody. I'll give you 3-4 bucks in value for your LOLwurms. When it pushes 8-10 later post rotation, I'll get double back. Works for me!
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Mr. Fu, your leaving of MTGnews' humor forum killed it. KILLLED IT!
There's a small possibility this will see sideboard play if some little guy rush decks get really popular, otherwise it isn't very good.
It will see zero play in extended.
Don't fool yourselves, as a creature it's a 6/5 for 6 with no evasion and little resilience to removal, especially with Go for the Throat around. As a removal spell it's a massively overcosted version of a removal spell that was already narrow and needed to be played as early as possible to be effective. Yes, it's one sided, but that really only matters if it actually kills something, and that will be far from consistent at it's mana cost. The decks that will actually lose creatures to this thing could care less about losing 6 life, and will frequently have you very very low before you can ever cast it.
This thing wouldn't have made the cut 5 years ago and it likely won't now.
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For all the naysayers that complain that they guy is too small to battle with baneslayer & doesn't have evasion, that's what skinwing is for right? lol, j/k
I'm surprised no one mentioned this guy along side genesis wave yet. Hitting multiples seems pretty sick!
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
My current decks!
http://tappedout.net/users/ThePhasewalker/
Drop him and clear the board of 7 tokens or elves or whatever and then next turn swing away for 6.
hope no one decides to play that thopter assembly on turn 6, hahahahaha
That's kind of my reaction to this card. It's a good card, but standard is saturated with good five/six drops right now, and thanks partly to other cards in it's own set, black is saturated with sweepers as well. Most of those 5/6 drops also happen to hose aggro as well. This seems like a design that could have waited a set or two. Even it's flavour is already kinda redundant because of Wurmcoil Engine.
In contrast, Thrun and the Heroes are interesting because they bring Titan-level power relative to their smaller cost, which the game needs more of right now. Especially with the flavour of the set, I would have preferred something that contributes to an aggressive strategy.
Because under this scenario you have somehow let an agro deck get a board full of creatures and still have them on turn 7+ and our for some reason not dead.
Your killing, countering those creatures or neutering them some other way as you go or the agro deck is winning for those 7 turns.
For the wurm to be good you need to have been losing against agro for 7 turns and somehow not be dead yet.
Yeah my problem with this guy is there is no follow up and he requires really weird board presence to be good to start,
The other 6 drops are gifts that keep giving. This guy maybe 2 creatures or so (again, if he hits more agro has had a table full of creatures in the late game and at the same time control has not lost. This not exactly a scenario that happens.) and then is "opponent takes 2 life a turn" at the late game.
A Grave Titan or Wurmcoil is just good when ever you drop it.
Yeah. Not sold on White yet (and white is my color) but I think Red Hero is amazingly good. I will certainly give the White one a college try though. Thrun is just amazing for his cost and the result he going to get and good against nearly any type of deck.
Better in limited. Your not exactly getting a chalice in BS SOM SOM are you? And Carnifex does not die to green dinosaur spam. And still works ok if you are drafting blacks main attack in block - poison. Wurm is a non-infect creature which will be the first time their life drops from 20 for any reason in an infect deck. And it likely won't drop again.
In Standard: three black in a mono back with chalice is earlier yes, but mono black was not missing a good six drop or ways to deal with small creatures. This card does not get it to mono. It needs a 4 cast sweeper.* Three black mana in UB is pure late game.
* BSZ might get it there though.
And I started with saying he is fun.
The Wurm is played on the same turn, obliterates opposing creatures or army and deals lots of damage to the opponent, then your own army may attack the same turn with almost no opposition.
Played right, this wurm can easily waste 10 or more life the turn you play it, then you just destroy your opponents creatures with spells like Doom blade, Shriekmaw, Gatekeeper of Malakir or Sudden Death or whatever, making them lose even more life and let your wurm rampage through their life total to finish the job.
In decks that run 4 Grave Titans, it would be easy to replace 2 of those with 2 wurms, to give a more diverse array of abilities to the deck.
In fact, the only problem with this wurm is the fact that he doesn't have flash.
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
what? Grave Titan gives you two zombies when it hits play or swings, and it's a 6/6 deathtouch on top of it.
this thing is just a 'pyroclasm' on big legs, and while that goes far it might not go far enough until the Titans rotate out. this thing suffers the same problem the Sphinx does.
Deathtouch on a 6/6 is kind of irrelevant, because it's gonna kill other creatures anyway, while I agree that Grave titan is strong, I think that Wurm is easily on par with it but they may not fit in the same kind of deck.
First, the -2/-2 only affects the opponent's creatures, which means no waste of small creatures for you and your opponent board will be severely damaged and so will his life total. Grave titan gives you two 2/2 and some more over a few turns, and isn't even a Zombie himself.
The wurm wipes the board for you right away while dealing heavy damage with its ability. You don't even need to attack with it, just build a strong defense and blast your opponent creatures with any spell like Doom Blade, Eyeblight Ending or whatever and watch their life total sink down very fast.
But on the other hand, Grave Titan is way better at growing your own force, instead of reducing your opponent's army, but if he dies the turn you play him, you got 2 zombies, if the wurm dies the turn you played it, if you played it right, it will already have done a lot of disruption for your opponent.
I don't know about tournaments, but in casual, I would pick the wurm over the titan anytime and would gladly trade a playset of Grave Titan for a playset of Massacre Wurms. (well except maybe for the monetary value:))
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
It's definitely going to be a fun card for limited though where its a complete blowout
#1 - Massacre is now officially known as LOLwurm. Kudos, Crimson. All in favor, agree on the back of your meaningful future post.
#2 - Nobody cares if a Mythic is a 'bomb in Limited'. Mythics on average will appear 3 per pod. If you're lucksack enough to get a mythic, let alone a playable one, saying its a bomb is sorta wassnames... a given.
#3 - Some of you are clearly spoiled by M11. You are all hungry for that card that's better than the best creature RIGHT NOW, rather than the one that will be post-rotation. It's almost assured that Titans and BSA are not coming back - this guy and his Wurmcoil pal will achieve great things, then (along with every other uber fun/interesting creature that had to sit around and suck compared to those jerks). Powercreep has taken firm hold of your souls. Consider yourself lucky that I'm not in charge - I'd nip power creep right in the bud. This time next year you'd all be playing Homarid Spawning Bed, Abbey Gargoyles, and Hungry Mists and liking it!
#4 - His CIP ability certainly enables and fuels his 2nd ability, but his 2nd ability sticks around. I notice a lot of people ignoring that - every removal spell gets a Shock tattooed to it once he's in play.
#5 - It's obvious that MBC will be a presence in the meta of FNMs all over the country after MBS becomes tourney legal, if only to try it - and this guy is a natural fit within it. Also - with Memoricide to common to strip away win conditions within MBC (they always got my freakin' Grave Titans) it's nice to have a total of 3 good critters to run (Titan, Wurmcoil, LOLwurm).
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I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there - and I believe the pre-release will prove you wrong. All of them will have a big impact on Limited play - and will make people make mistakes with their removal. You didn't really expect some kinda crazy standard bomb Living Weapon, did you?
Oh wait, there's still a possibility of a Skullclampy Thing...
~In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.~
Fu's Cab - Retired! ||| Trade thread dead for now; returning soon!
One day I will alt. art my Jace, The Mind Sculptors into 'Mentok! The Mind Takers!'
Quotes
I could not agree more. The same could be said of PWs and JTMS vis a vis the Tezzeret 2.0 critics holding an extremely disproportionate power from what is now the all too high benchmark for anything subsequent to match it, such that if something new is even more powerful we are looking at a ban before rotation. Massacre Wurm, the more I think about it, is insanely good for turning a game around in favor of a MBC or perhaps a two color deck that splashes in another color. With Black Sun's Zenith, GFTT, and "lol Wurm," as it is now being affectionately nicknamed, black has so much control against aggro.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Extended no? If you resolve this against Faeries, you probably win right there. It's actually more powerful against them then Cruel Ultimatum, and a lot easier to cast. The 2 life is huge, even if the wurm itself doesn't kill every creature.
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It will see zero play in extended.
Don't fool yourselves, as a creature it's a 6/5 for 6 with no evasion and little resilience to removal, especially with Go for the Throat around. As a removal spell it's a massively overcosted version of a removal spell that was already narrow and needed to be played as early as possible to be effective. Yes, it's one sided, but that really only matters if it actually kills something, and that will be far from consistent at it's mana cost. The decks that will actually lose creatures to this thing could care less about losing 6 life, and will frequently have you very very low before you can ever cast it.
This thing wouldn't have made the cut 5 years ago and it likely won't now.