+ 4/4 flying for 4 is good
- But trumped by better fliers (BSA) in constructed, Serra Angel is a better flier anyway if your looking at beats
+ Tribal shroud is good
- All i do is EoT remove, or in response kill your big artifact thing that you want to give shroud, or Sweep, so shroud is great but not outright amazing.
- 3 Artifacts in play, will you have 3 relvant artifacts out on turn 4?
Artifact/W players cream themsevles, buy their overpriced mythic and feel meh about it afterwards. Fun card though.
Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
What are you guys crying about, this is exactly what I want my mythics to look like! A card with a big-concept effect that doesn't go in very many decks, but when you match it to the deck it goes in, it's great... that's sort of the definition of non-utility. This is how it should be! It has no chance to see play in constructed (at least with the SoM spoiled so far), but has a fairly unique effect in standard, combined with it being a mythic, will keep the price right where it should probably be, around $6.
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Except that isn't how Mythic should work. Don't get me wrong, both Indomitable Angel and Vengevine are powerful - I know that - but neither should be mythic rare.
The main placeholders for mythic are (and this is quoting from Wizards here):
Look at that first bold line: Something that feels special. Vengevine isn't special; it's just a really good creature. Some might argue that the Vengevine feels like an epic creature, but I disagree. It's just a powerful creature. That's what it is. There's no reason for it to be mythic.
The Angel is a slightly different beast. It's an Angel, and some people will argue that this fact alone is enough to make a mythic. I disagree. And so does R&D. Take a look at this: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&type=+[%22Creature%22]&subtype=+[%22Angel%22]&rarity=+[R]&format=+[%22Standard%22]. That's a list of rare Angels in standard at the moment (bar one: Platnum Angel, and it shows up only because it was rare in Mirrodin, and again in 10th Edition).
As far as I can see, Angelic Arbiter is pretty freakin' epic. It oversees the battlefield and uses some kind of power to literally restrict what players can do. That's pretty epic.
Or take Deathless Angel. An Angel that has the power to make any other creature (or itself if it wants) strong enough and tough enough to survive almost anything, even the wrath of a vengeful deity.
Or, hell, Stoic Angel. An Angel so impressive, so intimidating to look at, that only one one lone figure can emerge from the ranks of an opponents horde to stand against it.
And none of these creatures are mythic. They're all fairly epic, as far as I can see, but none of them are mythic rares. So, being an Angel does not automatically make a card mythic.
Then we have the other side of the argument: the powerlevel argument. Some people will argue that cards such as Baneslayer Angel deserve to be mythic simply because of their power level. I personally don't see this as a valid argument, considering R&D's reassurance that, "Mythic Rares will not just be a list of a set's most powerful cards". Sure, have playable cards at Mythic, but don't make a card mythic just because "it's really powerful".
Indomitable Angel is not Mythic. There isn't much about it that feels epic; not in the same way that Stoic Angel or Deathless Angel are epic. It just protects all your artifacts if you happen to have enough of them. Good for it. It also happens to be a 4/4 flier for 4. Grand. It's playable, and it's good - don't get me wrong it is good - but it should be rare; not mythic.
Very well-said. It definitely doesn't feel Mythic; just a very good Rare.
What are you guys crying about, this is exactly what I want my mythics to look like! A card with a big-concept effect that doesn't go in very many decks, but when you match it to the deck it goes in, it's great... that's sort of the definition of non-utility. This is how it should be!
This is exactly my sentiment. And while this card could have been rare, I see absolutely no problem with it being mythic. What do you guys want as mythics - more Vengevines and Lotus Cobras?
Or maybe we have the simple argument. This is as follows:
4/4s for 4 that fly are annoying in limited. Shrouding your team is just mean. This card will never see enough play to rise about $5-6, even at mythic. Lets let casual players play their artifact angel deck, without messing up limited (AKA Drana).
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
Pretty pissed about this card actually. A 4/4 flyer for four in white is good but not mythic good. So what it can protect artifacts it's just a rare meant for limited to make drafting fun but I'd rather wait until turn 5 to drop a bsa in an aggressive deck for more abilities that are useful.
I like her, and she makes me want to change my Lich deck to B/W instead of B/U... but maybe I can just splash a bit of white for her? (yes I realize that a WW casting cost is a bit above splash level... but she still fits well into the deck.)
In the end rarity doesn't matter that much. Yes, mythic cards are literally harder to get than rares, but what really matters is the playability. And in the end, we always end up with cards at all rarity levels at varying value levels. This is why an uncommon like Path to Exile can pull $5-$6, or Bloodbraid Elf even more (though not so much now that it is rotating,) and a mythic like Cast through Time is a crap mythic, pulling slightly more than a crap rare, at about a buck. This is because cards like Path and Bloodbraid are extremely playable, and Cast Through Time... not so much!)
So looking at playability... she is a 4/4 flying for 4. As everyone said about Conundrum Sphinx, that alone isn't bad. Then give her an awesome ability that shouldn't be all that hard to pull off, and that makes her that much better! Now the problem with her ability is that it is narrow. You have to have 3 artifacts in play for it to work. Well that's fine, as it helps those artifacts. Are you going to put her in a Bant deck? No... but the fact that Scars is a very artifact heavy block makes her awesome in my opinion. Given her narrow nature, I imagine that she will do well in limited when she is pulled (and I would be very happy to pull her,) but she won't do well in constructed unless someone finds some insane broken combo with her, and given that, she won't be worth all that much. Maybe on the level of Platinum Angel ($3-$4)... not a bad combo there, her and Platinum Angel!
In the end it is irrelevant to debate whether she deserves to be Mythic, or if she should be Rare, or even Ucommon. There are ALWAYS cards that land on the fence and they have to make a decision about which way to swing it. This is how we end up with cards like Path or Bloodbraid at uncommon, Noble Hierarch at rare, and Malfegor at Mythic.
This always has, and always will be the case when it comes to Magic.
I feel like this would have been a good card if it just said "artifacts you control have shroud". The metalcraft requirement is moronic and makes it a piece of garbage.
Yeah, so 4/4 fliers for 4 they are pretty awesome aren't they?
BSA comparison very relevant. What kind of deck cares if its finisher is 4cc or 5cc?? none. Between 5 and 6 it sometimes matters, but 4 and 5? just no. Anywhere you would play this play baneslayer instead and your deck is probably 20%+ better just by changing those cards.
Except that isn't how Mythic should work. Don't get me wrong, both Indomitable Angel and Vengevine are powerful - I know that - but neither should be mythic rare.
The main placeholders for mythic are (and this is quoting from Wizards here):
Look at that first bold line: Something that feels special. Vengevine isn't special; it's just a really good creature. Some might argue that the Vengevine feels like an epic creature, but I disagree. It's just a powerful creature. That's what it is. There's no reason for it to be mythic.
The Angel is a slightly different beast. It's an Angel, and some people will argue that this fact alone is enough to make a mythic. I disagree. And so does R&D. Take a look at this: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&type=+[%22Creature%22]&subtype=+[%22Angel%22]&rarity=+[R]&format=+[%22Standard%22]. That's a list of rare Angels in standard at the moment (bar one: Platnum Angel, and it shows up only because it was rare in Mirrodin, and again in 10th Edition).
As far as I can see, Angelic Arbiter is pretty freakin' epic. It oversees the battlefield and uses some kind of power to literally restrict what players can do. That's pretty epic.
Or take Deathless Angel. An Angel that has the power to make any other creature (or itself if it wants) strong enough and tough enough to survive almost anything, even the wrath of a vengeful deity.
Or, hell, Stoic Angel. An Angel so impressive, so intimidating to look at, that only one one lone figure can emerge from the ranks of an opponents horde to stand against it.
And none of these creatures are mythic. They're all fairly epic, as far as I can see, but none of them are mythic rares. So, being an Angel does not automatically make a card mythic.
Then we have the other side of the argument: the powerlevel argument. Some people will argue that cards such as Baneslayer Angel deserve to be mythic simply because of their power level. I personally don't see this as a valid argument, considering R&D's reassurance that, "Mythic Rares will not just be a list of a set's most powerful cards". Sure, have playable cards at Mythic, but don't make a card mythic just because "it's really powerful".
Indomitable Angel is not Mythic. There isn't much about it that feels epic; not in the same way that Stoic Angel or Deathless Angel are epic. It just protects all your artifacts if you happen to have enough of them. Good for it. It also happens to be a 4/4 flier for 4. Grand. It's playable, and it's good - don't get me wrong it is good - but it should be rare; not mythic.
My two bits
1. In a world where the people and lands are interlaced with metal and artifice, an angel who shelters your artifice from harm would be pretty mythic.
2. In artifice-centric limited, it might be best to make this an extra rare tool in the box.
Bane's Reading Suggestions David Eddings: The Belgariad, Mallorean, Elenium and Tamuli Series. The Redemption of Althalus Jim Butcher: The Codex Alera Series
This deck is really powerful and just smashes a lot of the popular decks that people will play in your grinders. Coral Merfolk is a surprisingly efficient threat and It That Betrays is an excellent finisher in a format where there is little removal, allowing you to grind out games against opponents that are proving hard to kill. I strongly recommend this deck. Valakut Titan decks have nothing on UB Coral/Betrays.
Garbage anything is garbage... but for some reason, people relate garbage mythics to an assault on Magic players everywhere. People don't seem to care about garbage rares do they?
Seconded. Same with the masticore--another cash grab folks.
This phrase, "cash grab," is more annoying than "dies to removal." The whole game is a cash grab. It's a product. You buy it. They make good cards so you want to buy more. Big deal.
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Seriously, why would anyone give a crap if this is a Mythic or not? It's a good card that ruins limited, is flavorfully very powerful, and has BADASS art. Seems pretty Mythic to me.
Yeah, because cards with "badass art" should be more rare than cards without "badass art".....
4/4 flying for 4 in white is already pretty nice. Even a few years ago you couldn't even get a 3/3 vanilla in white for 4 mana. The ability is kinda meh for me, but in the right constructed deck obviously it'll help out.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
It takes green like 10 years to get a rare 4/4 for 4, and white gets one w/ flying in this block off hand and it doesn't have a chance of seeing standard play because Baneslayer is just THAT much better.
It's moments like this when you realize they're not actually making it up as they go along, because that would imply they're making something as opposed to throwing ☺☺☺☺ out there.
Sigged.
Power creep is sooooo out of control. Seeing cards like this makes me almost cry.
Haha! I love that you were attentive enough to catch Glimmervoid, but not to catch that the subject of the photo is totally not a dude.
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+ 4/4 flying for 4 is good
- But trumped by better fliers (BSA) in constructed, Serra Angel is a better flier anyway if your looking at beats
+ Tribal shroud is good
- All i do is EoT remove, or in response kill your big artifact thing that you want to give shroud, or Sweep, so shroud is great but not outright amazing.
- 3 Artifacts in play, will you have 3 relvant artifacts out on turn 4?
Artifact/W players cream themsevles, buy their overpriced mythic and feel meh about it afterwards. Fun card though.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
Very well-said. It definitely doesn't feel Mythic; just a very good Rare.
This is exactly my sentiment. And while this card could have been rare, I see absolutely no problem with it being mythic. What do you guys want as mythics - more Vengevines and Lotus Cobras?
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
4/4s for 4 that fly are annoying in limited. Shrouding your team is just mean. This card will never see enough play to rise about $5-6, even at mythic. Lets let casual players play their artifact angel deck, without messing up limited (AKA Drana).
There was once [The Pack], but no more.
In the end rarity doesn't matter that much. Yes, mythic cards are literally harder to get than rares, but what really matters is the playability. And in the end, we always end up with cards at all rarity levels at varying value levels. This is why an uncommon like Path to Exile can pull $5-$6, or Bloodbraid Elf even more (though not so much now that it is rotating,) and a mythic like Cast through Time is a crap mythic, pulling slightly more than a crap rare, at about a buck. This is because cards like Path and Bloodbraid are extremely playable, and Cast Through Time... not so much!)
So looking at playability... she is a 4/4 flying for 4. As everyone said about Conundrum Sphinx, that alone isn't bad. Then give her an awesome ability that shouldn't be all that hard to pull off, and that makes her that much better! Now the problem with her ability is that it is narrow. You have to have 3 artifacts in play for it to work. Well that's fine, as it helps those artifacts. Are you going to put her in a Bant deck? No... but the fact that Scars is a very artifact heavy block makes her awesome in my opinion. Given her narrow nature, I imagine that she will do well in limited when she is pulled (and I would be very happy to pull her,) but she won't do well in constructed unless someone finds some insane broken combo with her, and given that, she won't be worth all that much. Maybe on the level of Platinum Angel ($3-$4)... not a bad combo there, her and Platinum Angel!
In the end it is irrelevant to debate whether she deserves to be Mythic, or if she should be Rare, or even Ucommon. There are ALWAYS cards that land on the fence and they have to make a decision about which way to swing it. This is how we end up with cards like Path or Bloodbraid at uncommon, Noble Hierarch at rare, and Malfegor at Mythic.
This always has, and always will be the case when it comes to Magic.
How many people do you see playing conundrum sphinx?
Yeah, so 4/4 fliers for 4 they are pretty awesome aren't they?
BSA comparison very relevant. What kind of deck cares if its finisher is 4cc or 5cc?? none. Between 5 and 6 it sometimes matters, but 4 and 5? just no. Anywhere you would play this play baneslayer instead and your deck is probably 20%+ better just by changing those cards.
Garbage mythic is garbage
My two bits
1. In a world where the people and lands are interlaced with metal and artifice, an angel who shelters your artifice from harm would be pretty mythic.
2. In artifice-centric limited, it might be best to make this an extra rare tool in the box.
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Bane's Reading Suggestions
David Eddings: The Belgariad, Mallorean, Elenium and Tamuli Series. The Redemption of Althalus
Jim Butcher: The Codex Alera Series
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Garbage anything is garbage... but for some reason, people relate garbage mythics to an assault on Magic players everywhere. People don't seem to care about garbage rares do they?
To be fair, Linvala's ability is arguably more powerful, and definitely far more rare than giving stuff shroud.
This phrase, "cash grab," is more annoying than "dies to removal." The whole game is a cash grab. It's a product. You buy it. They make good cards so you want to buy more. Big deal.
RRR Buy some of my art! Prints! RRR
You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it does.
Also this thread is so full of the most ridiculous QQ ever. Haters gonna hate, and magic players gonna ***** about anything and everything.
Or Platinum Angel for that matter.
GGGOmnath, Locus of ManaGGG
Standard
RMyrboltR
You idiots will argue about ANYTHING.
Seriously, why would anyone give a crap if this is a Mythic or not? It's a good card that ruins limited, is flavorfully very powerful, and has BADASS art. Seems pretty Mythic to me.
4/4 flying for 4 in white is already pretty nice. Even a few years ago you couldn't even get a 3/3 vanilla in white for 4 mana. The ability is kinda meh for me, but in the right constructed deck obviously it'll help out.
.
this card is going to be wild if the meta swings to artifacts.
UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
WUBRGT.E.S.GRBUW
Sigged.
Power creep is sooooo out of control. Seeing cards like this makes me almost cry.
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