I could see an extremely fun casual control deck being made with an eldrazi titan and 2 of these guys. especially with how crazy card draw can be at the moment...
Keening stone + Selective memory with an eldrazi or two in the deck just screams "timmy combo." Although, what they would be comboing I still can't put my finger on...
Aaaand i'm still waiting for a legitimately impressive rare from this set to be spoiled...
Seriously? What does it take for Wizards to impress you? Name an impressive Rare from each of the last 5 sets.
WWk?
Zen?
Arb?
Cfx?
SoA?
In all of that there are only 4 chase rares if you exclude Fetchlands. Maelstrom Pulse, Noble Hierarch, Knight of the Reliquary, and Ranger of Eos are the only ones that I can think of. And of those, only 2 were worth anything when the set was new.
Can be good in EDH monoblue maybe...but seriosuly will they print more of these ☺☺☺☺ty craps? I havent seen a good rare in this set other than Sarkhan(which I have tested and does well)
Well, to reinforce the statements already said in the thread, this was probably a terrible time to print this as any of the shufflers render it less than useless. I would like to state how impressive this is in EDH, especially due to the fact that a dedicated and well-constructed mill deck in that format can deck multiple players on a table easily. This card adds to the mix another reusable source, something that some may love and many will likely dislike. Ah well. Such is the price of design.
somewhere in the 11 pages of this thread someone has already commented, "this would be great in EDH," mostly cuz at 11 for first activation that's about the only format this would fire off in. still obviously the traumatize with this combo makes milling out EDH decks slightly more viable in type-2 though the eldrazi will ensure that this can't mill you.
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This is a good card, and the fact it is in the set with the Eldrazi shows that they put some thought into it. Now you have to work for it. They didn't spoon feed it to you. Also, everyone is shooting for the instant win condition. You know they don't make the cards strictly for that purpose, right? Again, good card, and the perfect set for it.
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I was testing on MWS the other day and a guy double-Archive Trapped me after breaking a fetchland early on. The first one revealed Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The second one revealed Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. My library ended up with more cards than before he milled me, and he'd just spent half of his most dangerous mill cards for no purpose whatsoever.
I expect Keening Stone to suffer pretty much the same fate. Even if they manage to resolve it and activate it completely undisturbed, all it takes is for an incorrect reveal (that is actually playable in any deck) to undo all their work and take them back to square one.
As long as mill decks continue to lack a sure-fire, maindeckable answer to the Eldrazi Titans (and trust me, Relic of Progenitus and Ravenous Trap aren't sure-fire), then I suggest you stay as far away from this thing as possible.
Which is a good thing, this being a crap rare and all...
I was testing on MWS the other day and a guy double-Archive Trapped me after breaking a fetchland early on. The first one revealed Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The second one revealed Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. My library ended up with more cards than before he milled me, and he'd just spent half of his most dangerous mill cards for no purpose whatsoever.
I expect Keening Stone to suffer pretty much the same fate. Even if they manage to resolve it and activate it completely undisturbed, all it takes is for an incorrect reveal (that is actually playable in any deck) to undo all their work and take them back to square one.
As long as mill decks continue to lack a sure-fire, maindeckable answer to the Eldrazi Titans (and trust me, Relic of Progenitus and Ravenous Trap aren't sure-fire), then I suggest you stay as far away from this thing as possible.
Which is a good thing, this being a crap rare and all...
What about Sadistic Sacrament? Won't help if your opponent is packing a whole bunch of the titans, but a singleton boarded in would be easy to dispose of.
What about Sadistic Sacrament? Won't help if your opponent is packing a whole bunch of the titans, but a singleton boarded in would be easy to dispose of.
You seem to be missing the point, which is that a reasonable subset of players no longer need to worry about game plan at all. Whatever answer it is you're packing, be it Sadistic Sacrament, Ravenous Trap, Relic of Progenitus, etc., your opponent only needs to worry about that particular answer, not about your entire game plan.
Perhaps this is a bit too abstract for you to grasp, so I'll give you a very concrete example.
Just how many answers to my answer are you planning to board in just so you have a reasonable (read: statistically favorable) chance to sneak one past my own countermeasures? And just how much efficiency will your strategy have lost in the process?
Quick question regarding mill getting nerfed by the shuffle graveyard effects: If someone were to mill multiple titans a once, there would be multiple shuffle triggers. So, would mill maybe want to side 2-4 Cosi's Trickster, to have an "alternate" (normal) win condition. I mean, say someone uses a fetch the turn after you drop the trickster, then you get to Archive Trap and possibly trigger multiple titan shuffles. Just a thought, though honestly I hate mill.
It's a single card win condition that hits the table at 6... then takes 5 mana investment at instant speed to kill in about... 4 turns.
If you play control, and you figure turn 8, opponent has 6 cards in graveyard... and 45 in library, it kills you 6, 12, 24, game. Kinda slow... but in Eldrazi with those slow decks, could kill 2 turns after it comes into play.
In a recent local type II tourny I watched my buddy mill 20+ cards on multiple occasions with a blue/white ally deck; even won the last game and tourny with a 42 card mill after dropping a single Join the Ranks. This is, of course, without Keening, but nasty if coupled with this deck.
Eldrazi? Not overtly impressive IMO; too long to bring out and easily rectified with a Path (or Gideon if protected) even if it's ultimately shuffled back in. And at that point they better have enough to cast after so many milled lands. But hey, people can keep complaining how ☺☺☺☺ty it is and not use it; be cheaper for me to put into my deck and fun as hell to drop on people who think it's a typical ally deck.
In a recent local type II tourny I watched my buddy mill 20+ cards on multiple occasions with a blue/white ally deck; even won the last game and tourny with a 42 card mill after dropping a single Join the Ranks. This is, of course, without Keening, but nasty if coupled with this deck.
Eldrazi? Not overtly impressive IMO; too long to bring out and easily rectified with a Path (or Gideon if protected) even if it's ultimately shuffled back in. And at that point they better have enough to cast after so many milled lands. But hey, people can keep complaining how ☺☺☺☺ty it is and not use it; be cheaper for me to put into my deck and fun as hell to drop on people who think it's a typical ally deck.
Reread the legendary Eldrazi again, they shuffle your entire graveyard back into your library, thats why everyone is saying they completely destroy mill.
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RMythic RedR
RRDWR
EDH
GRBAdun OakenshieldBRG
RWG Boss Naya
Keening stone + Selective memory with an eldrazi or two in the deck just screams "timmy combo." Although, what they would be comboing I still can't put my finger on...
WUParadox HazeUW
UPuca's VengeanceU
GWBeatdownWG
Seriously? What does it take for Wizards to impress you? Name an impressive Rare from each of the last 5 sets.
WWk?
Zen?
Arb?
Cfx?
SoA?
In all of that there are only 4 chase rares if you exclude Fetchlands. Maelstrom Pulse, Noble Hierarch, Knight of the Reliquary, and Ranger of Eos are the only ones that I can think of. And of those, only 2 were worth anything when the set was new.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
"I feel like I haven't done my job unless somebody says, 'How the hell is that supposed to work?'" - Mark Rosewater
Collecting Islands need:
Unhinged & Unglued
Arena: Donato Giancola, Tony Szczudlo, Anson Maddocks, John Avon (ravnica)
European Land Program: Ben Thompsom, Eric Peterson, Ben Thompson
Fifth Edition J. W. Frost Islands foil
Location: Bangkok
"What's so unpleasant about being drunk?" asked Arthur.
"You ask a glass of water."
I expect Keening Stone to suffer pretty much the same fate. Even if they manage to resolve it and activate it completely undisturbed, all it takes is for an incorrect reveal (that is actually playable in any deck) to undo all their work and take them back to square one.
As long as mill decks continue to lack a sure-fire, maindeckable answer to the Eldrazi Titans (and trust me, Relic of Progenitus and Ravenous Trap aren't sure-fire), then I suggest you stay as far away from this thing as possible.
Which is a good thing, this being a crap rare and all...
What about Sadistic Sacrament? Won't help if your opponent is packing a whole bunch of the titans, but a singleton boarded in would be easy to dispose of.
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RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
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WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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You seem to be missing the point, which is that a reasonable subset of players no longer need to worry about game plan at all. Whatever answer it is you're packing, be it Sadistic Sacrament, Ravenous Trap, Relic of Progenitus, etc., your opponent only needs to worry about that particular answer, not about your entire game plan.
Perhaps this is a bit too abstract for you to grasp, so I'll give you a very concrete example.
You: Howling Mine.
Me: Ok.
You: Archive Trap.
Me: Ok.
You: Hedron Crab.
Me: Ok.
You: Keening Stone.
Me: Ok.
You: Jace Beleren.
Me: Ok.
You: Font of Mythos.
Me: Ok.
You: Sadistic Sacrament.
Me: Cancel, Cancel, Negate.
You: Relic of Progenitus.
Me: Oblivion Ring, Oblivion Ring, Pithing Needle, discard my titan before you have a chance to play the relic due to my hand overflowing from all those howling mines...
and finally...
Me: Iona, Shield of Emeria or Meddling Mage, naming whatever answer you might have that might cause any semblance of a pickle.
Just how many answers to my answer are you planning to board in just so you have a reasonable (read: statistically favorable) chance to sneak one past my own countermeasures? And just how much efficiency will your strategy have lost in the process?
If you play control, and you figure turn 8, opponent has 6 cards in graveyard... and 45 in library, it kills you 6, 12, 24, game. Kinda slow... but in Eldrazi with those slow decks, could kill 2 turns after it comes into play.
Eldrazi? Not overtly impressive IMO; too long to bring out and easily rectified with a Path (or Gideon if protected) even if it's ultimately shuffled back in. And at that point they better have enough to cast after so many milled lands. But hey, people can keep complaining how ☺☺☺☺ty it is and not use it; be cheaper for me to put into my deck and fun as hell to drop on people who think it's a typical ally deck.
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Reread the legendary Eldrazi again, they shuffle your entire graveyard back into your library, thats why everyone is saying they completely destroy mill.
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I apologize for the length (I tend to need to follow my train of thought to the end before proceeding to the next, resulting in overly long posts, papers, and monologues in conversations) and for the copious amount of parentheses.