My first reaction to the Demon was that he'd go great in Standard Elfball. Lay him down and just dare your opponent to Firespout or Pyroclasm your 30 elves away.
Ehm. I think PoT (Prince of Thralls) actually only works on permanents in play going to yards, since a permanent not in play is a card, spell or land, and a card milled from an library doesn't has any controller. So PoT's rule text actually means 'Whenever a creature, land, artifact, enchantment, or planeswalker under an opponent's control is put into graveyard from play, [blablah].'
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My first reaction to the Demon was that he'd go great in Standard Elfball. Lay him down and just dare your opponent to Firespout or Pyroclasm your 30 elves away.
Also like the Giltspire for its anti-BB angle - even if it hits, it gets destroyed. In fact, even the esperoza/Sanctum Garg has an anti-BB angle to it (both flyers, Sanctum trying to return any destroyed flyers that may already be in the graveyard).
Kind of silly to look at those cards as anti-BB rather than on their talents....
I know there are better win conditions, but I am a mill guy who plays Elfball too. This card is like Magic and beer: two things I love that never seem to go together.
Another thing I thought was interesting to point out, from a flavor/story perspective, is that if Extractor Demon does have the "...from play" clause, that would mean that he's more distinctly a fusion of Grixis and Jund abilities, as the other critters with that type of ability (Hissing Iguanar & Deathgreeter) are from Jund.
2U for a 4/3 flier is well-worth the drawback of having to return artifacts, assuming you are playing enough of them to begin with. It's a very good card.
Demon is obviously strong, but more so for his stats and Unearth than for his ability.
Avenger is good in limited but a bit slow. Way too slow in constructed; you should be playing Rafiq instead and just killing your opponent, rather than trying to pick off his creatures after they've already hurt you.
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Esperzoa: Absurd. 4/3 fliers for 3 are nothing to scoff at, ever. The drawback, as so many have pointed out, is negligible in the right deck and can even be a positive. Almost certainly will see play if an artifact deck comes together in Standard, and will likely make decklists in Extended and Legacy as well (less sure about Extended than Legacy, where the quality of returnable artifact is higher).
Extractor Demon: Nasty in Limited, probably not playable outside casual elsewhere. Adds to Demon tribal, though, which is always a positive.
Giltspire Avenger: Reminds me of Intrepid Hero. Probably about as playable, too. Definite "kill me now" card in Limited.
Somebody mentioned Pithing Needle and Sculler... but I think it's basically wrong. Non of these would make any usefull if you remove them from the game at every turn.
Well for Needle you don't need to bounce it every turn. Just return it when a better guy comes along (like when you've used your Jellyfish to demolish your opponent's Garruk and they decide to play Elspeth).
Also, looking at Sea Drake tempo loss isn't that steep a price to pay for a 3cc 4/3 flier.
Hmm. I supposed Grim Poppet is too much to cast to use effectively with Epserzoa. Not really a ton of useful CIP artifact effects, and eh...not so much on Tidehollow Scullers leaves play effect.
Odds are it will find a home in my Affinity deck somehow or another though.
Giltspire Avenger: Reminds me of Intrepid Hero. Probably about as playable, too. Definite "kill me now" card in Limited.
I was just thinking it kind of reminds me of Loyal Sentry. Except he's more expensive and the damage has to go through first. In fact I probably would rather have a Loyal Sentry.
The Avenger just plain sucks. Think of Rhox War Monk, which is +1/+2 bigger for the same price. Yes the Avenger has exalted but we can't treat a creature that dies to Shock/Magma Spray like a ''3/3''. The ability is useless in Constructed. BIG disappointment there.
It's not the same nor an Intrepid Hero. It has a bigger body, and also the Exalted ability on it. Also it could take down evasive creatures of any size.
I didn't say it was the same, I said it was similar (ie you attack me, I kill you back). Anyway, for a stall deck he may find some use but otherwise I think he's pretty bad. "Avenger" is pretty flavorful though, and the mechanic is spot on with the name, so points for that I guess.
I don't like artifact jellyfish, but the card itself is going to be popular I think. Playtesting will tell us jut HOW popular.
The demon looks pushed but not enough for constructed imo.
The rare is on par with the other rares from this block so far - bad but potentially fun in casual.
It's not the same nor an Intrepid Hero. It has a bigger body, and also the Exalted ability on it. Also it could take down evasive creatures of any size.
They all fill slightly different niches and have different drawbacks. For the Avenger, it's both that you have to take the hit first (which makes it far less useful than the other two late game, BTW) and its (in any other Standard) ridiculous mana cost. For the Hero, it's the tiny body and the inability to hit things with power <4. For the Sentry, it has to be able to block the creature and it has a tiny body, but the mana cost is less. Hence why both of us said it reminded us of them.
Thanks for pointing out that a certain card is different from other cards, though. I wouldn't have been able to figure that out otherwise.
As others have said, it would be very hard to find space in a deck for the Avenger when the other options (Stoic, War Monk, Hierophant) are so much better. Also a very restrictive casting cost - shame it didn't have a bigger body. I'd go with the Loyal Sentry for sure.
The Demon's halfway decent, at least they put wings on him.
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First PTQ top 8 6/13/09(1st) Second PTQ top 8 10/7/09(5th) Second at national Qualifier 5/15/10
Third PTQ top 8 2/12/11 (2nd)
Second at Alberta 2011's
Fourth PTQ top 8 3/17/12(8th)
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Giltspire Avenger is a terrible rare. So is Extractor Demon. Meanwhile, Esperzoa has the most potential to see competitive play....
Sigh. Please get your rarities correct Wizards. Also, please stop printing jank like Extractor Demon. Why not drop his cost to 5, and have it so he can only target you with the ability? That way it'd at least be a little more playable... 6 mana 5/5s are terrible nowadays without a more potent ability. See: Sharuum.
I don't like artifact jellyfish, but the card itself is going to be popular I think. Playtesting will tell us jut HOW popular.
The thing is: Sea Drake is better in Stompy. Obviously. What people are curious about is whether it's able to function as ANOTHER beatstick, either in addition to Sea Drake or in another deck. Honestly, I don't think so, seeing that Vendilion Clique is a stronger 3 mana beatstick in blue, and Serendib Efreet is stronger most of the time in legacy.
Giltspire Avenger is a terrible rare. So is Extractor Demon. Meanwhile, Esperzoa has the most potential to see competitive play....
Sigh. Please get your rarities correct Wizards. Also, please stop printing jank like Extractor Demon. Why not drop his cost to 5, and have it so he can only target you with the ability? That way it'd at least be a little more playable... 6 mana 5/5s are terrible nowadays without a more potent ability. See: Sharuum.
...a bit harsh...don't forget that same crappy 5/5 flyer comes back for 2B for a second go-around (with haste). I'm not a fan of Unearth to begin with, but I hardly think he's terrible. Avenger looks OK...I'm all for a consistent way to deal with permanent creatures -- and with Rhox War Monk, Battlegrace Angel, and now Wall of Reverence, taking some damage won't matter (well, at least for me as a casual player)
Giltspire Avenger is a terrible rare. So is Extractor Demon. Meanwhile, Esperzoa has the most potential to see competitive play....
Sigh. Please get your rarities correct Wizards. Also, please stop printing jank like Extractor Demon. Why not drop his cost to 5, and have it so he can only target you with the ability? That way it'd at least be a little more playable... 6 mana 5/5s are terrible nowadays without a more potent ability. See: Sharuum.
The thing is: Sea Drake is better in Stompy. Obviously. What people are curious about is whether it's able to function as ANOTHER beatstick, either in addition to Sea Drake or in another deck. Honestly, I don't think so, seeing that Vendilion Clique is a stronger 3 mana beatstick in blue, and Serendib Efreet is stronger most of the time in legacy.
The world does not revolve around spikes and I'm very happy wizards recognizes that. Otherwise we'd all be playing with 20/20 for 1 mana by now. Also, power level isn't the only criteria for deciding rarity.
The avenger is decent in multiplayer for its rattlesnake factor. 2/2 for 3 colored mana makes it a tough fit in tier 1 decks in constructed.
I love the jellyfish. 4/3 for 3 mana can't be that bad and its drawback can be converted into a perk.
The demon is ok. There are better finishers at 6 mana such as Oona or broodmate dragon. I don't see how this card can fit into any type of existing or potential archetype. Another bargain bin rare.
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Sanctum Gargoyle goodness.
Get a lame card with Tidehollow Sculler, give it another go.
A card for two mana with the Elsewhere flask every turn.
Plus, I'm sure Conflux will give us some more artifact come into play goodness!
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Hissing Iguanar or maybe even Vicious Shadows would work better...
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Also like the Giltspire for its anti-BB angle - even if it hits, it gets destroyed. In fact, even the esperoza/Sanctum Garg has an anti-BB angle to it (both flyers, Sanctum trying to return any destroyed flyers that may already be in the graveyard).
Kind of silly to look at those cards as anti-BB rather than on their talents....
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=239246
I know there are better win conditions, but I am a mill guy who plays Elfball too. This card is like Magic and beer: two things I love that never seem to go together.
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Esperzoa: I'm trying to figure out how this doesn't make Stampeding Serow look like a chump.
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Demon is obviously strong, but more so for his stats and Unearth than for his ability.
Avenger is good in limited but a bit slow. Way too slow in constructed; you should be playing Rafiq instead and just killing your opponent, rather than trying to pick off his creatures after they've already hurt you.
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Extractor Demon: Nasty in Limited, probably not playable outside casual elsewhere. Adds to Demon tribal, though, which is always a positive.
Giltspire Avenger: Reminds me of Intrepid Hero. Probably about as playable, too. Definite "kill me now" card in Limited.
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
Well for Needle you don't need to bounce it every turn. Just return it when a better guy comes along (like when you've used your Jellyfish to demolish your opponent's Garruk and they decide to play Elspeth).
Also, looking at Sea Drake tempo loss isn't that steep a price to pay for a 3cc 4/3 flier.
Odds are it will find a home in my Affinity deck somehow or another though.
I was just thinking it kind of reminds me of Loyal Sentry. Except he's more expensive and the damage has to go through first. In fact I probably would rather have a Loyal Sentry.
I didn't say it was the same, I said it was similar (ie you attack me, I kill you back). Anyway, for a stall deck he may find some use but otherwise I think he's pretty bad. "Avenger" is pretty flavorful though, and the mechanic is spot on with the name, so points for that I guess.
I don't like artifact jellyfish, but the card itself is going to be popular I think. Playtesting will tell us jut HOW popular.
The demon looks pushed but not enough for constructed imo.
The rare is on par with the other rares from this block so far - bad but potentially fun in casual.
.
They all fill slightly different niches and have different drawbacks. For the Avenger, it's both that you have to take the hit first (which makes it far less useful than the other two late game, BTW) and its (in any other Standard) ridiculous mana cost. For the Hero, it's the tiny body and the inability to hit things with power <4. For the Sentry, it has to be able to block the creature and it has a tiny body, but the mana cost is less. Hence why both of us said it reminded us of them.
Thanks for pointing out that a certain card is different from other cards, though. I wouldn't have been able to figure that out otherwise.
UBDragonlord Silumgar WGKarametra, God of Harvests
BRUNekusar, the Mindrazer BGMazirek, Kraul Death Priest
URMelek, Izzet Paragon UGPrime Speaker Zegana
WUHanna, Ship's Navigator BWUSydri, Galvanic Genius
WUBRGSliver Queen RBBladewing the Risen
WBKarlov of the Ghost Council RGXenagos, God of Revels
GFreyalise, Llanowar's Fury RWAurelia, the Warleader
RIb Halfheart, Goblin Tactician BDrana, Liberator of Malakir
UAzami, Lady of Scrolls WNahiri, the Lithomancer
WBGDoran, the Siege Tower CEmrakul, the Promised End
The Demon's halfway decent, at least they put wings on him.
First PTQ top 8 6/13/09(1st)
Second PTQ top 8 10/7/09(5th)
Second at national Qualifier 5/15/10
Third PTQ top 8 2/12/11 (2nd)
Second at Alberta 2011's
Fourth PTQ top 8 3/17/12(8th)
GP Vancouver 2012 (18th)
Sigh. Please get your rarities correct Wizards. Also, please stop printing jank like Extractor Demon. Why not drop his cost to 5, and have it so he can only target you with the ability? That way it'd at least be a little more playable... 6 mana 5/5s are terrible nowadays without a more potent ability. See: Sharuum.
The thing is: Sea Drake is better in Stompy. Obviously. What people are curious about is whether it's able to function as ANOTHER beatstick, either in addition to Sea Drake or in another deck. Honestly, I don't think so, seeing that Vendilion Clique is a stronger 3 mana beatstick in blue, and Serendib Efreet is stronger most of the time in legacy.
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...a bit harsh...don't forget that same crappy 5/5 flyer comes back for 2B for a second go-around (with haste). I'm not a fan of Unearth to begin with, but I hardly think he's terrible. Avenger looks OK...I'm all for a consistent way to deal with permanent creatures -- and with Rhox War Monk, Battlegrace Angel, and now Wall of Reverence, taking some damage won't matter (well, at least for me as a casual player)
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The world does not revolve around spikes and I'm very happy wizards recognizes that. Otherwise we'd all be playing with 20/20 for 1 mana by now. Also, power level isn't the only criteria for deciding rarity.
The avenger is decent in multiplayer for its rattlesnake factor. 2/2 for 3 colored mana makes it a tough fit in tier 1 decks in constructed.
I love the jellyfish. 4/3 for 3 mana can't be that bad and its drawback can be converted into a perk.
The demon is ok. There are better finishers at 6 mana such as Oona or broodmate dragon. I don't see how this card can fit into any type of existing or potential archetype. Another bargain bin rare.