This is all by way of saying that the Horror is great in reanimator.
Ah yes, but with the god hand you would cast 2x Dark Rit and cast the Horror and the Exhume both on turn 1. I usually used Tolarian Serpent, because it was helpful in reanimator. The deck also used Mind Bomb.
Trespasser Il-Vec is better at 3 mana for (repeatable) Madness-enabling Gathan Raiders is better at 3 mana for (single) Madness-enabling and all-around Hellbent awesome-ness
Hidden Horror is outclassed as long as TSP is around......Maybe makes a spash in Horror Tribal??? Even that's a stretch.......
Hey, can one of the mods please merge this thread with the one in new card discussion? I'm getting kind of annoyed by reading them both.
on-topic: The Horror is good. I don't know if it will get the credit it deserves (many cards never do), but it is good. The Gathan Raiders point is a good one though, as that card is also good.
Dude, what other discard related thing is black known for?
I look forward to going Gemstone Mine -> Llanowar Elves -> this thing -> Vigor Mortis and smashing face
Right, but the point remains: why is this superior to Gathan raiders? Granted, it is a bit bigger until hellbent but is also a pretty bad draw unless in your opening hand. Discarding to it late game is just bad.
Time will tell, I guess, but I just don't see this making a big appearance.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Banner and avatar by the one and only Craven at Epic graphics. Check them out.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
If it makes anybody happy I'm working on a deck with the both of them in it. Problem is I want to put squee in it but he is anti-synergetic with Raiders...
just remember, you don't HAVE to return squee. His ability is optional
Do any of you think that a truely aggresive madness deck would work with Drekavac, Hidden Horror, and Gathan Raiders (Drekevac and Hidden Horror love Nether Traitor)?
Some of you may have been in shock since we invaded Canada and Mexico, but fear not, it was for a good cause. Now that we conrol North America, we produce an extra 5 armies a turn.^_^
Do any of you think that a truely aggresive madness deck would work with Drekavac, Hidden Horror, and Gathan Raiders (Drekevac and Hidden Horror love Nether Traitor)?
Maybe, but the thing is that discard here is not optional as opposed to great enablers such as Wild mongrel and Aquamoeba. Not to mention the fact that the various Rack decks running around would rape it. Works better in reanimation strategies I believe.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Banner and avatar by the one and only Craven at Epic graphics. Check them out.
I think this might just be the big-ish guy that Rakdos needs to get into a top teir. It's a very solid deck right now but it has a hard time competing with other aggro decks. I think this just might do it.
I think this might just be the big-ish guy that Rakdos needs to get into a top teir. It's a very solid deck right now but it has a hard time competing with other aggro decks. I think this just might do it.
If Avatar of Woe couldn't do it (and it couldn't), a similarly-sized non-evasive that only requires one discard (and that forced to be a creature) isn't going to. Rakdos would be happier with Drekavac - -1/-1, but cheaper by B and allows them to throw a land or flashback card.
No, the place for Hidden Horror is reanimation, a deck type Drekavac is specifically barred from by the 'noncreature' discard requirement. It can be a nice short-term friend for dredge, as it can come online in turn 2 with a first-turn Elf/Bird, as quickly as a Greenseeker, Llanowar Mentor or Smallpox and faster than my favoured discard outlet Skirk Ridge Exhumer. You only throw one card, but there's no activation cost, if you've got a dredge in hand or a juicy critter to throw that's all you need, and you get a meatier creature to punch with or slow an opponent long enough to get the deck running.
And, with dredge leaving (bar Dakmor Salvage) and Buried Alive nowhere in sight, reanimation might just need all the help it can get.
Turn 3. Doomed Necromancer
Turn 4. Land, Hidden Horror discarding fattie, Sacrifice Doomed Necromancer to reanimate fattie all in your turn with priority just as the fattie hits the graveyard. It is possible? or there is a chance Extirpate will be cast?
As mentioned, this is no faster than, say, Dread Return, and I can't see Doomed Necro seeing much use while that's in the format. What I envision would be:
Same effect, a turn earlier. You've got one 4/4 and Teneb/Akroma/Whatever - two significant threats in play at once (a bit like the Dread Return beastie/Tombstalker trick, but doesn't need to rely on getting a good dredge number early - plus it can survive the loss of dredge from the environment).
As for Gathan Raiders. HH outperforms them in this context because it's bigger - the Raiders are 5/5 only if you can throw your entire hand, and that's not going to happen on turn 2 in most games. And 3/3 red is easier to kill quickly than 4/4 black, by virtue of both toughness and colour.
[QUOTE]
[quote=Zombiemachine;/comments/5242349]I can't believe how much positive response has such a mediocre card generated. The horror was printed and then it was reprinted and still saw next to no play and that was in the day when a black 4/4 creature was a problematic threat.
Strange, I have different memories from the Weatherlight era; don't know much about its core set history but then the core set is always filled with once-staple cards that have been outdated or simply don't have a deck to call home any more (Worship? Icy Manipulator?). But remember that MG-VS-WL/Rath was a very fast, aggro-dominated environment, and that the decks that could have used Hidden Horror in WL had Buried Alive and Fallow Wurm from the same set, Swords to Plowshares from its Ice Age printing and other very efficient removal; a cheap, big creature wasn't either exceptional or hard to destroy. This environment is different. The big point against HH is that no one much cares about big efficient vanillas (Plague Sliver, Hunted Wumpus, Ernham Djinn...) these days and evasion is all-important. But that's much less of an issue when what you want from HH is a discard outlet that gives you a big body as a freebie, not a powerful offensive creature.
The thing is, when a card gets previewed, that people start imagining perfect scenarios. Yes a turn 3 horror in a pseudo-reanimator that discards Akroma and follows it with a Dread return is awesome, but tell me how awesome is it to top-deck Hidden horror with no cards in hand? Exactly.
Replace "Hidden Horror" in the above with "Trespasser il-Vec", "Greenseeker", "Llanowar Mentor", "Gathan Raiders" or the discard outlet of your choice. I've had plenty of games when I don't get the fat to throw, and in those any discard outlet is dead weight (and the next time I activate Fa'adiyah Seer to draw a land, I'll scream). That doesn't make any of them either bad cards or bad in the appropriate deck. Like any of these cards, the Horror gives you one discard outlet in a deck that will usually run two or three, and it's as good as any of them (well, okay, Greenseeker is better). Reanimator doesn't need to discard more than one card if it gets its fat - if it doesn't, it doesn't even want to discard one. HH is as fast as Trespasser il-Vec and harder to deal with, and is every bit as good in a reanimator deck.
If Avatar of Woe couldn't do it (and it couldn't), a similarly-sized non-evasive that only requires one discard (and that forced to be a creature) isn't going to. Rakdos would be happier with Drekavac - -1/-1, but cheaper by B and allows them to throw a land or flashback card.
No, the place for Hidden Horror is reanimation, a deck type Drekavac is specifically barred from by the 'noncreature' discard requirement. It can be a nice short-term friend for dredge, as it can come online in turn 2 with a first-turn Elf/Bird, as quickly as a Greenseeker, Llanowar Mentor or Smallpox and faster than my favoured discard outlet Skirk Ridge Exhumer. You only throw one card, but there's no activation cost, if you've got a dredge in hand or a juicy critter to throw that's all you need, and you get a meatier creature to punch with or slow an opponent long enough to get the deck running.
As mentioned, this is no faster than, say, Dread Return, and I can't see Doomed Necro seeing much use while that's in the format. What I envision would be:
Same effect, a turn earlier. You've got one 4/4 and Teneb/Akroma/Whatever - two significant threats in play at once (a bit like the Dread Return beastie/Tombstalker trick, but doesn't need to rely on getting a good dredge number early - plus it can survive the loss of dredge from the environment).
As for Gathan Raiders. HH outperforms them in this context because it's bigger - the Raiders are 5/5 only if you can throw your entire hand, and that's not going to happen on turn 2 in most games. And 3/3 red is easier to kill quickly than 4/4 black, by virtue of both toughness and colour.
Phil
I think you mean Avatar or Discord. Either way, Rakdos decks like this scored teo US Nationals invitations. I think Hidden Horror might be solid.
Hidden Horror is a good addition to MBA. Its not some generic fattie you can put in any deck, its a card you play because you have a purpose for it in the deck. I like it alot and will likely use it.
I love hidden horror, if only they used the weatherlight artwork instead
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Avid EDH player GWUPhelddagrif----------------GWRhys, the Redeemed----------UBRLord of Tresserhorn--------XKozilek, Butcher of Truth WUBRGProgenitus---------------BGWKarador, Ghost Chieftain---URGIntet, the Dreamer---------RGWort, the Raidmother BGSavra-----------------------RGMarhault Elsdragon----------UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir------UWHanna, Ship's Navigator BSkithiryx the Blight Dragon--RWUZedruu the Greathearted----BRelentless Rats------------BRUNicol Bolas
the weatherlight art works kinda creepy; something like that monster came from tahngarths nose or sumthing eeewwww... must be the reason why the darn thing is black, low casting cost and has a 4/4 body nyahaha!
(M:tG) It's a hobby which costs money. You can't play golf without the right clubs and a membership for the golf court, you can't play paintball with a cardboard armor and a sling, you can't go to the movies without paying for a ticket and you can't play Magic without owning the cards. Simple as that.
Ah yes, but with the god hand you would cast 2x Dark Rit and cast the Horror and the Exhume both on turn 1. I usually used Tolarian Serpent, because it was helpful in reanimator. The deck also used Mind Bomb.
Gathan Raiders is better at 3 mana for (single) Madness-enabling and all-around Hellbent awesome-ness
Hidden Horror is outclassed as long as TSP is around......Maybe makes a spash in Horror Tribal??? Even that's a stretch.......
on-topic: The Horror is good. I don't know if it will get the credit it deserves (many cards never do), but it is good. The Gathan Raiders point is a good one though, as that card is also good.
Right, but the point remains: why is this superior to Gathan raiders? Granted, it is a bit bigger until hellbent but is also a pretty bad draw unless in your opening hand. Discarding to it late game is just bad.
Time will tell, I guess, but I just don't see this making a big appearance.
Banner and avatar by the one and only Craven at Epic graphics. Check them out.
Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
just remember, you don't HAVE to return squee. His ability is optional
Do any of you think that a truely aggresive madness deck would work with Drekavac, Hidden Horror, and Gathan Raiders (Drekevac and Hidden Horror love Nether Traitor)?
This will at the VERY least turn Xth limited/constructed into an interesting format.....
Maybe, but the thing is that discard here is not optional as opposed to great enablers such as Wild mongrel and Aquamoeba. Not to mention the fact that the various Rack decks running around would rape it. Works better in reanimation strategies I believe.
Banner and avatar by the one and only Craven at Epic graphics. Check them out.
Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
If Avatar of Woe couldn't do it (and it couldn't), a similarly-sized non-evasive that only requires one discard (and that forced to be a creature) isn't going to. Rakdos would be happier with Drekavac - -1/-1, but cheaper by B and allows them to throw a land or flashback card.
No, the place for Hidden Horror is reanimation, a deck type Drekavac is specifically barred from by the 'noncreature' discard requirement. It can be a nice short-term friend for dredge, as it can come online in turn 2 with a first-turn Elf/Bird, as quickly as a Greenseeker, Llanowar Mentor or Smallpox and faster than my favoured discard outlet Skirk Ridge Exhumer. You only throw one card, but there's no activation cost, if you've got a dredge in hand or a juicy critter to throw that's all you need, and you get a meatier creature to punch with or slow an opponent long enough to get the deck running.
As mentioned, this is no faster than, say, Dread Return, and I can't see Doomed Necro seeing much use while that's in the format. What I envision would be:
Turn 1: Overgrown Tomb/Wastes/Forest, Elf/Bird
Turn 2: Tomb/Wastes/Swamp, Hidden Horror, discarding something big
Turn 3: Land, Dread Return.
Same effect, a turn earlier. You've got one 4/4 and Teneb/Akroma/Whatever - two significant threats in play at once (a bit like the Dread Return beastie/Tombstalker trick, but doesn't need to rely on getting a good dredge number early - plus it can survive the loss of dredge from the environment).
As for Gathan Raiders. HH outperforms them in this context because it's bigger - the Raiders are 5/5 only if you can throw your entire hand, and that's not going to happen on turn 2 in most games. And 3/3 red is easier to kill quickly than 4/4 black, by virtue of both toughness and colour.
Phil
Strange, I have different memories from the Weatherlight era; don't know much about its core set history but then the core set is always filled with once-staple cards that have been outdated or simply don't have a deck to call home any more (Worship? Icy Manipulator?). But remember that MG-VS-WL/Rath was a very fast, aggro-dominated environment, and that the decks that could have used Hidden Horror in WL had Buried Alive and Fallow Wurm from the same set, Swords to Plowshares from its Ice Age printing and other very efficient removal; a cheap, big creature wasn't either exceptional or hard to destroy. This environment is different. The big point against HH is that no one much cares about big efficient vanillas (Plague Sliver, Hunted Wumpus, Ernham Djinn...) these days and evasion is all-important. But that's much less of an issue when what you want from HH is a discard outlet that gives you a big body as a freebie, not a powerful offensive creature.
Replace "Hidden Horror" in the above with "Trespasser il-Vec", "Greenseeker", "Llanowar Mentor", "Gathan Raiders" or the discard outlet of your choice. I've had plenty of games when I don't get the fat to throw, and in those any discard outlet is dead weight (and the next time I activate Fa'adiyah Seer to draw a land, I'll scream). That doesn't make any of them either bad cards or bad in the appropriate deck. Like any of these cards, the Horror gives you one discard outlet in a deck that will usually run two or three, and it's as good as any of them (well, okay, Greenseeker is better). Reanimator doesn't need to discard more than one card if it gets its fat - if it doesn't, it doesn't even want to discard one. HH is as fast as Trespasser il-Vec and harder to deal with, and is every bit as good in a reanimator deck.
Phil
I think you mean Avatar or Discord. Either way, Rakdos decks like this scored teo US Nationals invitations. I think Hidden Horror might be solid.
3 Graven Cairns
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Rakdos Carnarium
3 Keldon Megaliths
2 Sulfurous Springs
4 Blood Crypt
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures
4 Withered Wretch
4 Dark Confidant
4 Rakdos Augermage
3 Gathan Raiders
3 Hit // Run
4 Rise // Fall
4 Volcanic Hammer
3 Demonfire
4 Seal of Fire
4 Rift Bolt
4 Stupor
3 Yixlid Jailer
4 Tombstalker
4 Sedge Sliver
GWUPhelddagrif----------------GWRhys, the Redeemed----------UBRLord of Tresserhorn--------XKozilek, Butcher of Truth
WUBRGProgenitus---------------BGWKarador, Ghost Chieftain---URGIntet, the Dreamer---------RGWort, the Raidmother
BGSavra-----------------------RGMarhault Elsdragon----------UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir------UWHanna, Ship's Navigator
BSkithiryx the Blight Dragon--RWUZedruu the Greathearted----BRelentless Rats------------BRUNicol Bolas