now its officialy done for...only think lets hope you have wrath:P nice kitty really like him... does it act like holy day on dmg from creatures?(all of same color) so many uses....
Aside from the Dstorm defence, there is not too much that this offers that isn't trivial the only other thing I can think of is essentially redirecting a Demonfire back on it's caster. Aside from that however there really is very little that this does that isn't covered better by Story Circle. This will be a sideboard card for T2, at best.
I'm a returning player, so I'm sort of relearning some of the rules and might be wrong. But how would it send Demonfire back onto the caster? Wouldn't it just fizzle because the target is no longer legal, like giving Protection to a critter that was targeted?
As for advantages ove Story Circle... There's a lot of surprise value. Totally hoses critter combat math. Probably hits your opponent for 1/7 of his life next turn. Momentary Blink and bounce after damage on the stack. B Graveyard recursion. Aura-wearing. Just naming a few advantages off the top of my head.
any its not like your opponent should have trouble winning with 4 hellkites on the field, unless you wrath or damn those things
Don't forget the new 0cc spell that prevents all damage. Let them gigadrowse then once they use every resource in their deck only to meet a timely Wrath of God. Or if they don't Gigadrowse you then just cast this to eliminate the damage followed by a Wrath of God on your turn. A good Dragonstorm player would adjust their playstyle to this but...there are defenses.
now its officialy done for...only think lets hope you have wrath:P nice kitty really like him... does it act like holy day on dmg from creatures?(all of same color) so many uses....
This doesn't spell the end for Dragonstorm...it just seperates the good players from the bad ones.
I'm a returning player, so I'm sort of relearning some of the rules and might be wrong. But how would it send Demonfire back onto the caster? Wouldn't it just fizzle because the target is no longer legal, like giving Protection to a critter that was targeted?
As for advantages ove Story Circle... There's a lot of surprise value. Totally hoses critter combat math. Probably hits your opponent for 1/7 of his life next turn. Momentary Blink and bounce after damage on the stack. B Graveyard recursion. Aura-wearing. Just naming a few advantages off the top of my head.
Yes, you're right of course. It doesn't redirect a Demonfire it just counters it.
Also, I realized this just now. Seht's Tiger can be most closely related to Dawn Charm which does almost everything Seht's Tiger does except it can't counter damage from abilities though what damage it does stop can only come from one color, and Dawn Charm can't counter uncounterable stuff. (read: demonfire) Dawn Charm is not very frequently played, and where it is, it is played so-as-to take advantage of the cheap utility that White-X Weenie doesn't usually get. Seht's Tiger, unfortunately does very little Dawn Charm doesn't and at a price that makes the utility for less useful. What's more, that stuff that it does do better than Dawn Charm is already done by other spells. Dragonstorm is already stopped by Shadow of Doubt and Trickbind. Demonfire is already stopped by Venser. a 3/3 Flash for 4 is hardly (if at all) better than the 3/2 Flying Flash for 3 Stonecloaker. Really, there's just no real place for the tiger in T2 Constructed, there are simply too many other things that does what it does better.
Really, there's just no real place for the tiger in T2 Constructed, there are simply too many other things that does what it does better.
I wouldnt say Better, different yes, better no. Giving yourself protection gives a lot more flexibility than dawn charm. As for the current T2 constructed not having a place for this card, i agree, but isn't that the reason for making new sets. To make new decks, tweaking netdecks is only going to get you so far.
This is a very strong card and has potential, simply saying it doesnt have a place in the current T2 doesn't make it a bad card or unplayable.
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Really, there's just no real place for the tiger in T2 Constructed, there are simply too many other things that does what it does better.
lol, there's nothing in Magic that does what it does, how can there be in Standard?
No card has EVER given protection to a player, and this does so tackled to a 3/3 body, for 4 mana. Unlike Dawn Charm, this can be reused with Momentary Blink and Whitemane Lion/Stonecloaker. Unlike Dawn Charm, this counters Demonfire. Unlike Dawn Charm, this counters Tendrils/Ignite Memories (ALL copies).
Unlike Dawn Charm, this will see constructed play. If Dawn Charm is just as good, or better, why is no one packing it?
This card is miles better than any alternatives, and there's not a single card that can do all it does.
This card is amazing. And I'm glad I'm one of the few that have realized it by now, as I'll be able to pick foil copies for $4 and laugh in the end
'93-'94: Black Lotus, the moxen, and Mishra's Workshop introduced. Artifacts are broken.
'98-'99: Tolarian Academy, Tinker, Memory Jar, and Metalworker introduced. Artifacts still extremely broken.
'03-'04: Wizards decides to base a full block around broken artifacts.
'08-'09: You do the math. There will be broken artifacts in Rock Block. You will see.
ALL YOU NAIVE FOOLS SHALL SEE!!!
-Jed
Let me first make myself clear. The abilities on Seht's Tigers aren't completely represented by Dawn Charm, but many of them are which is why it can be used as a decent reflection on Seht's Tiger's use in constructed. That said...
If Dawn Charm is just as good, or better, why is no one packing it?
This is my point. Dawn Charm is not being "packed". A glorified Dawn Charm will also not be "packed" unless it can do far more than the Dawn Charm. Now you did make a list of what it does do, so I'll adress them:
Yes. It's very unique and creative. That said, alot of what protection to a player does do, can already be done. Dawn Charm very nearly does so. For most practical purposes all it misses is non-combat creature damage (Dragonstorm being the prime example) and disenchant for Enchant Player cards.
this can be reused with Momentary Blink and Whitemane Lion/Stonecloaker.
Indeed. However, in a deck such as Blink Riders that would use such a combo, there are far better targets for the blink. Venser, for example, who can do alot of what this can do that is important and other more useful utility. Riftwing Cloudskate is already frequently used in said deck and Venser can take it's place much better than the Cloudskate. Blink Riders is, however having issues with Dragonstorm, which I'll adress later.
this counters Tendrils/Ignite Memories (ALL copies).
Granted. So too does Trickbind. An important thing to note of these Storm kill decks is they very frequently utilize Gigadrowse to deplete your mana before playing said spell. There are also now several combo protectors such as that new 0 cost Cancel we're seeing. Once Future Sight becomes legal, you can almost guarentie that when your opponent lays down their storm combo, they're gonna be ready to respond to whatever you have to cast. Even if they haven't gigadrowsed you, you're going to be hard pressed to find the mana for another responsive spell if you even have one. If they have gigadrowsed you, more likely then not you won't have the four mana for the tiger but you might have enough for some other sideboard card, and Trickbind has split second. This is also the main reason against Dragonstorm
and this does so tackled to a 3/3 body, for 4 mana.
All in all, not so great for 4 mana now-and-days. At instant speed, it's ok, but for one less mana you can get the same attacking power AND evasion AND two other relevant abilities within Stonecloaker.
-
In order for Seht's Tiger to become relevant within T2, two things must happen.
One: A large quantity of the winning decks must use prime win conditions that Seht's Tiger shuts down. (Current examples: Dragonstorm/Tendrils/Demonfire)
Two: Material must be provided so a low to mid-range white agressive deck can develop. Seht's Tiger will serve as EoT 3/3 in most cases and as a perk can stop said win conditions of condition one above. More efficient bodies either aren't available for decks of condition two, or condition two decks must have a very poor win rate without use of Seht's Tiger.
Seht's Tiger does have potential, as GrassNinja stated. I recougnize the value of being able to do so many things with a single card. But it's only valuble if all of it's abilities are regularly used within the game. If you're only using it for one or two of it's traits, better options are out there.
i don't see this card anywhere unless someone was to come with some combo. if someone does, it'd probably be something with enduring renewal. still, i cn't see how having a protection from a color for a turn can be all that great. in addition, you have to pay for a ripoff 3/3 body to match. i think i'll just have to pass on this card. i hope the recent preview cards aren't the best future sight has to offer. the new frames got me excited but i'm tired of all these awful cards.
I'd like to point out that this is generally a good deal better than fog (which many people have been comparing it to). Your creatures can still do damage, thus where fog was just a stall, this could potentially be a stall and take out 1/2 there army all for the cost of putting a 3/3 into play.
I think the art is 7 years old and they used the upper part of the tiger for the card art. I looked through the copies of Thomas Gianni art that I have to see if I have the full picture, but I do not have one. Would have been nice to scan for the forum.
Went to his website and it matches the size of the art shown. I still like the art as is.
Let me first make myself clear. The abilities on Seht's Tigers aren't completely represented by Dawn Charm, but many of them are which is why it can be used as a decent reflection on Seht's Tiger's use in constructed. That said...
This is my point. Dawn Charm is not being "packed". A glorified Dawn Charm will also not be "packed" unless it can do far more than the Dawn Charm. Now you did make a list of what it does do, so I'll adress them:
Yes. It's very unique and creative. That said, alot of what protection to a player does do, can already be done. Dawn Charm very nearly does so. For most practical purposes all it misses is non-combat creature damage (Dragonstorm being the prime example) and disenchant for Enchant Player cards.
Indeed. However, in a deck such as Blink Riders that would use such a combo, there are far better targets for the blink. Venser, for example, who can do alot of what this can do that is important and other more useful utility. Riftwing Cloudskate is already frequently used in said deck and Venser can take it's place much better than the Cloudskate. Blink Riders is, however having issues with Dragonstorm, which I'll adress later.
As does Venser.
Granted. So too does Trickbind. An important thing to note of these Storm kill decks is they very frequently utilize Gigadrowse to deplete your mana before playing said spell. There are also now several combo protectors such as that new 0 cost Cancel we're seeing. Once Future Sight becomes legal, you can almost guarentie that when your opponent lays down their storm combo, they're gonna be ready to respond to whatever you have to cast. Even if they haven't gigadrowsed you, you're going to be hard pressed to find the mana for another responsive spell if you even have one. If they have gigadrowsed you, more likely then not you won't have the four mana for the tiger but you might have enough for some other sideboard card, and Trickbind has split second. This is also the main reason against Dragonstorm
All in all, not so great for 4 mana now-and-days. At instant speed, it's ok, but for one less mana you can get the same attacking power AND evasion AND two other relevant abilities within Stonecloaker.
-
In order for Seht's Tiger to become relevant within T2, two things must happen.
One: A large quantity of the winning decks must use prime win conditions that Seht's Tiger shuts down. (Current examples: Dragonstorm/Tendrils/Demonfire)
Two: Material must be provided so a low to mid-range white agressive deck can develop. Seht's Tiger will serve as EoT 3/3 in most cases and as a perk can stop said win conditions of condition one above. More efficient bodies either aren't available for decks of condition two, or condition two decks must have a very poor win rate without use of Seht's Tiger.
Seht's Tiger does have potential, as GrassNinja stated. I recougnize the value of being able to do so many things with a single card. But it's only valuble if all of it's abilities are regularly used within the game. If you're only using it for one or two of it's traits, better options are out there.
Venser and Trickbind are Blue, I hope you realize that when another color gets a good alternative to cards that already see play, it will be played. Seht's Tiger may cost 4 mana but he gives a 3/3 body at instant-speed, PLUS the effect. If a gruul player attacks with Kird Ape, Scab-Clan Mauler and Burning-Tree Shaman you can play the tiger, choose Red, block and kill the Mauler, take ZERO damage and proceed to Wrath the Board. A Dawn Charm would have a similar effect for less mana in this situation but this is only one situation. You are paying a colorless mana to give yourself protection (considering a 3/3 white creature with flash would cost 1WW, roughly) and nevermind what you say you won't be able to convince me that's a bad deal, in any situation. Is Trickbind better against storm? Yes. But it's useless against creatures, Demonfire, Persecute, and others. The Tiger costs four mana, but it does everything. It will see play.
Finally something to get rid of those pesky Psychic Possessions. White has been suffering the wrath of that card too long without a way to get rid of enchantments.
Ferrets aren't rodents, they're funny little creatures related to weasels, erminys and that kind of hyperactive furry mammals
now its officialy done for...only think lets hope you have wrath:P nice kitty really like him... does it act like holy day on dmg from creatures?(all of same color) so many uses....
I'm a returning player, so I'm sort of relearning some of the rules and might be wrong. But how would it send Demonfire back onto the caster? Wouldn't it just fizzle because the target is no longer legal, like giving Protection to a critter that was targeted?
As for advantages ove Story Circle... There's a lot of surprise value. Totally hoses critter combat math. Probably hits your opponent for 1/7 of his life next turn. Momentary Blink and bounce after damage on the stack. B Graveyard recursion. Aura-wearing. Just naming a few advantages off the top of my head.
This doesn't spell the end for Dragonstorm...it just seperates the good players from the bad ones.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Yes, you're right of course. It doesn't redirect a Demonfire it just counters it.
Also, I realized this just now. Seht's Tiger can be most closely related to Dawn Charm which does almost everything Seht's Tiger does except it can't counter damage from abilities though what damage it does stop can only come from one color, and Dawn Charm can't counter uncounterable stuff. (read: demonfire) Dawn Charm is not very frequently played, and where it is, it is played so-as-to take advantage of the cheap utility that White-X Weenie doesn't usually get. Seht's Tiger, unfortunately does very little Dawn Charm doesn't and at a price that makes the utility for less useful. What's more, that stuff that it does do better than Dawn Charm is already done by other spells. Dragonstorm is already stopped by Shadow of Doubt and Trickbind. Demonfire is already stopped by Venser. a 3/3 Flash for 4 is hardly (if at all) better than the 3/2 Flying Flash for 3 Stonecloaker. Really, there's just no real place for the tiger in T2 Constructed, there are simply too many other things that does what it does better.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8810959#post8810959
I wouldnt say Better, different yes, better no. Giving yourself protection gives a lot more flexibility than dawn charm. As for the current T2 constructed not having a place for this card, i agree, but isn't that the reason for making new sets. To make new decks, tweaking netdecks is only going to get you so far.
This is a very strong card and has potential, simply saying it doesnt have a place in the current T2 doesn't make it a bad card or unplayable.
Thanks for the Sig and Avatar Fogatog @EPIC GRAPHICS
lol, there's nothing in Magic that does what it does, how can there be in Standard?
No card has EVER given protection to a player, and this does so tackled to a 3/3 body, for 4 mana. Unlike Dawn Charm, this can be reused with Momentary Blink and Whitemane Lion/Stonecloaker. Unlike Dawn Charm, this counters Demonfire. Unlike Dawn Charm, this counters Tendrils/Ignite Memories (ALL copies).
Unlike Dawn Charm, this will see constructed play. If Dawn Charm is just as good, or better, why is no one packing it?
This card is miles better than any alternatives, and there's not a single card that can do all it does.
This card is amazing. And I'm glad I'm one of the few that have realized it by now, as I'll be able to pick foil copies for $4 and laugh in the end
I'll call it now...3-4 dolalrs post price stabilization. Simplky because we don't know what else will happen to shake up the format.
Demonfire, nope.
Hellbent Demonfire, nope.
Tendrils of Agony, nope. That'll help in t1.
Orim's Chant, nope.
Mind Twist, nope.
Infinite Mana Braingeyser, nope.
Sadly, it doesn't handle threatening artifacts like Door to Nothingness, Mindslaver, and Ashnod's Coupon.
'98-'99: Tolarian Academy, Tinker, Memory Jar, and Metalworker introduced. Artifacts still extremely broken.
'03-'04: Wizards decides to base a full block around broken artifacts.
'08-'09: You do the math. There will be broken artifacts in Rock Block. You will see.
ALL YOU NAIVE FOOLS SHALL SEE!!!
-Jed
This is my point. Dawn Charm is not being "packed". A glorified Dawn Charm will also not be "packed" unless it can do far more than the Dawn Charm. Now you did make a list of what it does do, so I'll adress them:
Yes. It's very unique and creative. That said, alot of what protection to a player does do, can already be done. Dawn Charm very nearly does so. For most practical purposes all it misses is non-combat creature damage (Dragonstorm being the prime example) and disenchant for Enchant Player cards.
Indeed. However, in a deck such as Blink Riders that would use such a combo, there are far better targets for the blink. Venser, for example, who can do alot of what this can do that is important and other more useful utility. Riftwing Cloudskate is already frequently used in said deck and Venser can take it's place much better than the Cloudskate. Blink Riders is, however having issues with Dragonstorm, which I'll adress later.
As does Venser.
Granted. So too does Trickbind. An important thing to note of these Storm kill decks is they very frequently utilize Gigadrowse to deplete your mana before playing said spell. There are also now several combo protectors such as that new 0 cost Cancel we're seeing. Once Future Sight becomes legal, you can almost guarentie that when your opponent lays down their storm combo, they're gonna be ready to respond to whatever you have to cast. Even if they haven't gigadrowsed you, you're going to be hard pressed to find the mana for another responsive spell if you even have one. If they have gigadrowsed you, more likely then not you won't have the four mana for the tiger but you might have enough for some other sideboard card, and Trickbind has split second. This is also the main reason against Dragonstorm
All in all, not so great for 4 mana now-and-days. At instant speed, it's ok, but for one less mana you can get the same attacking power AND evasion AND two other relevant abilities within Stonecloaker.
-
In order for Seht's Tiger to become relevant within T2, two things must happen.
One: A large quantity of the winning decks must use prime win conditions that Seht's Tiger shuts down. (Current examples: Dragonstorm/Tendrils/Demonfire)
Two: Material must be provided so a low to mid-range white agressive deck can develop. Seht's Tiger will serve as EoT 3/3 in most cases and as a perk can stop said win conditions of condition one above. More efficient bodies either aren't available for decks of condition two, or condition two decks must have a very poor win rate without use of Seht's Tiger.
Seht's Tiger does have potential, as GrassNinja stated. I recougnize the value of being able to do so many things with a single card. But it's only valuble if all of it's abilities are regularly used within the game. If you're only using it for one or two of it's traits, better options are out there.
Went to his website and it matches the size of the art shown. I still like the art as is.
Superannuated canines are immune to indoctrination and innovative maneuvers.
Venser and Trickbind are Blue, I hope you realize that when another color gets a good alternative to cards that already see play, it will be played. Seht's Tiger may cost 4 mana but he gives a 3/3 body at instant-speed, PLUS the effect. If a gruul player attacks with Kird Ape, Scab-Clan Mauler and Burning-Tree Shaman you can play the tiger, choose Red, block and kill the Mauler, take ZERO damage and proceed to Wrath the Board. A Dawn Charm would have a similar effect for less mana in this situation but this is only one situation. You are paying a colorless mana to give yourself protection (considering a 3/3 white creature with flash would cost 1WW, roughly) and nevermind what you say you won't be able to convince me that's a bad deal, in any situation. Is Trickbind better against storm? Yes. But it's useless against creatures, Demonfire, Persecute, and others. The Tiger costs four mana, but it does everything. It will see play.