Wow. Yixlid Jailer is the first card that doesn't look terrible in the new frame. It looks dead sexy. It's elegantly macabre art matches its excellent card design.
Jeiler, we already had, but it's nice to see the whole deal. The blue enchantment is just not very good. Costs you 5 mana and does not alter the board position. Sure, it may give you some nice advantage later, but so could Mirari and be better than this 75% of the time and still nobody uses that one either.
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I think I'm gonna try to put together a control deck of some sort with a few of the self-suspending spells and Spellweaver Volute... I like a silly challenge like this, and it IS in the right color to lock things down until I've got mana to waste on it.
-ranting-
ok, wizards, its a good thing youre not keeping this future shifted style past this set because your typsetting is absolutely embarrassing... i notice that the artist and copyright information is set to the far right...so when the card is a creature card, it smashes into the p/t box....very smooth guys....it was nice having everything centered, the least that could be done would be to put it over to the left so it doesnt look so unformal....actually it seems that thats all "futuristic" means to WotC is "not serious"
-rant over-
on the upside, the jailer's art is amazing, this is something id like to have a print of, perhaps matt will be coming to town soon for a prerelease...
the card is bleeeh graveyard hate is so mean....
the blue thing is weird.....abusable but only for some casual stuff, unless some ridiculous things come out of there...hey wouldnt this be handy if red and blue got together to pump this out and double all the burn available? c'est possible! im still saying this might only be found in the "casual" deckbox...
yeah jack i re-read the rules entry and changed my post.. i read it too fast. My brain didn't seed it right.
two difference from mirrari-
1) I don't have to cast the spell first i can just pitch then cast a 1cc sorcery to move it to the card.
2) I don't have to pay 3 extra to use the effect, just cast a sorcery i was probably gonna cast anyhow.
I think the real problem is that Spellweaver Volute requires you to think about it, build a deck that can utilize it.
Most magic players that play competitively net-deck. so until some japanese guy plays the deck at worlds or nats or whatever and top 8s will it get any respect from spikes. us Johny/timmys will rejoice at the coolness of it.
I can think of about 5 cards that fall into this same scenario.
Some cards require you to take the time to work with them. Build a deck and see what happens.
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"One Day Reason and Sanity will rule the World....."
"Unfortunately that day will be the day after all us Homo Sapiens explode in fiery balls of death from a Thermonuclear Hell..."
Personally, I am absolutely stunned and overjoyed by cards like this and the rediculous cards we've seen so far. I am a total casual player, and I play all the time with my friends in casual multiplayer. I think people who play for keeps all the time forget that there's a bunch of us who love and in fact PREFER to play with cards that have broad ideas behind them rather than play cards that are suited for draft or for ruthless boring tournery matches, for example. I like coin flip cards.
I love Norin the Wary precicely because people think he is useless until I get Confusion in the Ranks out and they end up quitting in disgust when they realize they will never play a creature ever ever again. Everyone thinks it's a stupid combo until you actually have it played against you and you realize what a nasty lock it is.
You may think those are stupid, expensive combos but I win all the time with them. I love goofy, silly, Johnny cards, and I hope we see more like them. Id love to see another Goblin Game card, actually.
And I really like this Volute card. It can be broken in so many ways. Actually, in an Extended control deck where the sorceries are all draw cards and the instants all counterspells, I can pretty muich see a pretty quick lock, can't you? The Volute is a great card and an ingenious idea! Keep it up! I want more cards like this! You Timmy and Spikes have had your day; the era of goofball cards is at hand! REPENT!!! Char Schmar! Counterspell Shmounterspell! We want more cards like Biorhythm!
Maybe one day I will see my card printed:
Some Broken Enchantment
2W
Enchantment
Players may not sacrifice permanents. (If a spell or ability would require a permanent to be sacrificed as part of its cost or as part of its effect, that spell or ability has no effect.)
endless walks just got a burst in endlessness
that enchantment is gonna be a sleeper
(giving sorceries instant woulda been to powerful, long live T2=Tier 2)
could be a sideboard weapon for dragon storm
that zombie is freaking good at uncommon
and their just might be more flash back and auto recursion in FS
Timespiral and Planar Chaos both had auto recursion style effects
The tides of fate procreate disaster
and awakens thy master
the gates explode and the seals anulled
between the dust lyes a fold
of unimaginal minds untold
i duress in death's caress
where the unknow take hold
Through a portal of the past
I regress past a river blazing cold
i read this article... so if i get it right Jixlid Jailer doesn't shut down Dralnu at all? because Dralnu's ability changes the text of the target card in the graveyard, and that happens in layer 3, then Jailers ability does nothing?
I'm pretty sure that's not correct. What happens is, Dralnu does give the target card flashback in layer 3 but then the Jailer just takes it away in layer 5, like you'd expect. I don't think the situation with Dralnu is like any of the unexpected exceptions outlined in the article.
The bit about Humility and Ambush Commander is really confusing in this context. What Laurie is saying is, since Humility applies in a later layer Humility doesn't stop Ambush Commander from applying its ability to other cards. So Ambush Commander still makes forests into creatures even with Humility in play, then Humility takes those creatures abilities away...but they're still creatures. Same with the Mistform Ultimus example: Yixlid Jailer doesn't stop the Ultimus from applying it's own continuous effect to itself (and since that effect gives Ultimus types, not abilities, Yixlid Jailer doesn't undo the result of the effect).
But the situation with Dralnu is simpler than that. There are two continuous effects: Dralnu gives flashback, Yixlid Jailer takes it away in a later layer, so the card doesn't have flashback in the end.
The giant "more detail than you ever believed necessary" Cranial Insertion article on layers is here and is a good reference for this kind of nonsense.
EDIT: Egad. I was just wrong, wrong, wrong. The Dralnu-Jailer interaction is simple, but it helps if you put Dralnu's effect in the right layer: layer 5, same as the Jailer.
I'll just quote from someone who know what they're talking about, i.e. Laurie himself:
Thanks for the compliments, everyone. Dralnu and Yixlid Jailer apply in timestamp order:
If you use Dralnu's ability while the Jailer is in play, it gives the card Flashback.
If you use Dralnu's ability and *then* the Jailer comes into play, the card loses Flashback.
I don't see how people say Yixlid Jailer = teh get out of jail free tech for pwning all joo dralnus out dere. It isn't a 2/1 for 2 with no drawback, the ability IS a drawback, you're playing black graveyard tricks are you're STRONG point. Nice in aggro. And the blue thing, [instant speed dismissal!] , cool for about 2 seconds until you realise you need a healthy flow of instants AND sorceries by turn X, where X is the turn you can play this card. Maybe with retether or something. Dunno, I could be wrong.
Spellweaver volute is a card designed specifically for casual johnny players to try and break. It looks cool is interesting and has lots of different requirements to play.
Yixlid Jailer we knew, but that is some fantastically evil looking art.
Spellweaver Volute is just stupid. Graveyards are generally stacks, and attaching something to a stick will just be confusing. And I don't like the idea of taking something out of said stack to have something attacked to it.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
A blue Mesmeric Orb deck would LOVE this blue one. Not only are you milling them every turn with Orb, but you can replay spells like Glimpse for even more hurt, not to mention having a ready supply of instants you can chuck at them.
The jailer, as I've said before, it's quite powerful... but the art is beyond SWEET. Seriously, it's the best art I've seen in quite awhile.
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B Ob Nixilis, The Fallen - EDH R Red Deck Wins - Standard R Burn- Legacy RG Spiders! - Multiplayer GW Enchantress -Casual U/G Treshold - Casual RGU Snake-Tongue Aggro-Control - Retired W Old School Rebels! -Retired
ok, I am lazy and dont feel like reading every post in this thread to find the answer to this...but can the aura be destroyed normally with a disenchant or something? Or is it not really in play to be effected?
As far as memory problems...you could just attach the aura to the card in the graveyard like you would a permanent. That way you know it's enchanted, like people do with Imprint or other similar effects...similar to this simple picture...
ok, I am lazy and dont feel like reading every post in this thread to find the answer to this...but can the aura be destroyed normally with a disenchant or something? Or is it not really in play to be effected?
It's in play. It can be disenchanted. But the card is in the graveyard. That's why it's a dumb idea. Because, as you show, you usually "attach" the aura to the card. Creates unneccessary confusion.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
Volute looks like it's going to be a fun casual card at the very least. I don't play paper magic, so the physical mechanics of attaching a enchantment to a card that's not in play is irrelevant to me. I love the concept, and I look forward to the time when we'll be enchanting player's hands, manapools, and removed-from-game-zones in black-border land.
I also love the Jailer's art, but it brings up something that bothers me about the futureshifted frames. Because the art box isn't a box at all, it looks like they commissioned art with a lot of horizontal movement. The frame itself draws your eye to the right, so the figures in the art seem to be moving or looking to the right more often than not. And because the frame is open on the right side, such figures appear to be moving or looking "off" the card. We've only seen a handful of these cards, but the Jailer is the exception in execution so far: the long, creepy arm accentuates movement to the left and keeps the piece balanced. Really phenomenal work, and I hope Cavotta has done a lot more for this set (it would make sense that they would have an in-house guy do a good chunk of the work; with the heightened security, I imagine Wizards would have wanted to keep the number of people who knew about the new frames to a minimum.)
I realize this is an exceeding small quibble, since there will only ever be 80 cards in these frames...just wanted to throw my two cents in.
It's in play. It can be disenchanted. But the card is in the graveyard. That's why it's a dumb idea. Because, as you show, you usually "attach" the aura to the card. Creates unneccessary confusion.
I'm speculating Wizards could end the rule about the graveyard having an order. They'd have to ban the cards that care about that (or offer very strange errata), but only one of them is good anyway, so no one will cry.
Then, since the graveyard doesn't need to be in order, you can just have your "unenchanted graveyard" pile and your "enchanted graveyard" pile.
You could arrange the Aura simply by having it rest in that diagonal shift position, rather that purely stacked atop, or only shifted parallel to the card.
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ok, wizards, its a good thing youre not keeping this future shifted style past this set because your typsetting is absolutely embarrassing... i notice that the artist and copyright information is set to the far right...so when the card is a creature card, it smashes into the p/t box....very smooth guys....it was nice having everything centered, the least that could be done would be to put it over to the left so it doesnt look so unformal....actually it seems that thats all "futuristic" means to WotC is "not serious"
-rant over-
on the upside, the jailer's art is amazing, this is something id like to have a print of, perhaps matt will be coming to town soon for a prerelease...
the card is bleeeh graveyard hate is so mean....
the blue thing is weird.....abusable but only for some casual stuff, unless some ridiculous things come out of there...hey wouldnt this be handy if red and blue got together to pump this out and double all the burn available? c'est possible! im still saying this might only be found in the "casual" deckbox...
two difference from mirrari-
1) I don't have to cast the spell first i can just pitch then cast a 1cc sorcery to move it to the card.
2) I don't have to pay 3 extra to use the effect, just cast a sorcery i was probably gonna cast anyhow.
I think the real problem is that Spellweaver Volute requires you to think about it, build a deck that can utilize it.
Most magic players that play competitively net-deck. so until some japanese guy plays the deck at worlds or nats or whatever and top 8s will it get any respect from spikes. us Johny/timmys will rejoice at the coolness of it.
I can think of about 5 cards that fall into this same scenario.
Some cards require you to take the time to work with them. Build a deck and see what happens.
"One Day Reason and Sanity will rule the World....."
"Unfortunately that day will be the day after all us Homo Sapiens explode in fiery balls of death from a Thermonuclear Hell..."
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881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
I love Norin the Wary precicely because people think he is useless until I get Confusion in the Ranks out and they end up quitting in disgust when they realize they will never play a creature ever ever again. Everyone thinks it's a stupid combo until you actually have it played against you and you realize what a nasty lock it is.
I like Krark's Thumb because it's fun to find cards to break it with (like Fiery Gambit + Spiraling Embers, or the very fun Clockspinning + Goblin Bomb) and watch people frown when they get obliterated by a frikkin goofball coinflip deck. I've wiped out 5 people in a multiplayer game with a recurring Twincasted Fiery Gambit.
I like Twincasting Goblin Game. I like playing Form of the Dragon followed by Decree of Annihilation. I like playing Heartless Hidetsugu followed by Hidetsugu's Second Rite. That's what it was meant to do but no one ever ever ever plays that combo. I like having Psychogenic Probe out + Furnace of Rath and then playing Mindblaze correctly on my opponent to kill him with one blow. (Hint: Causally ask your opponent how many of a particular card is in his or her deck and they often tell you...then play Mindblaze.)
You may think those are stupid, expensive combos but I win all the time with them. I love goofy, silly, Johnny cards, and I hope we see more like them. Id love to see another Goblin Game card, actually.
And I really like this Volute card. It can be broken in so many ways. Actually, in an Extended control deck where the sorceries are all draw cards and the instants all counterspells, I can pretty muich see a pretty quick lock, can't you? The Volute is a great card and an ingenious idea! Keep it up! I want more cards like this! You Timmy and Spikes have had your day; the era of goofball cards is at hand! REPENT!!! Char Schmar! Counterspell Shmounterspell! We want more cards like Biorhythm!
Maybe one day I will see my card printed:
Some Broken Enchantment
2W
Enchantment
Players may not sacrifice permanents. (If a spell or ability would require a permanent to be sacrificed as part of its cost or as part of its effect, that spell or ability has no effect.)
that enchantment is gonna be a sleeper
(giving sorceries instant woulda been to powerful, long live T2=Tier 2)
could be a sideboard weapon for dragon storm
that zombie is freaking good at uncommon
and their just might be more flash back and auto recursion in FS
Timespiral and Planar Chaos both had auto recursion style effects
a piece of my soul, through poetic sows.
The tides of fate procreate disaster
and awakens thy master
the gates explode and the seals anulled
between the dust lyes a fold
of unimaginal minds untold
i duress in death's caress
where the unknow take hold
Through a portal of the past
I regress past a river blazing cold
I'm pretty sure that's not correct. What happens is, Dralnu does give the target card flashback in layer 3 but then the Jailer just takes it away in layer 5, like you'd expect. I don't think the situation with Dralnu is like any of the unexpected exceptions outlined in the article.
The bit about Humility and Ambush Commander is really confusing in this context. What Laurie is saying is, since Humility applies in a later layer Humility doesn't stop Ambush Commander from applying its ability to other cards. So Ambush Commander still makes forests into creatures even with Humility in play, then Humility takes those creatures abilities away...but they're still creatures. Same with the Mistform Ultimus example: Yixlid Jailer doesn't stop the Ultimus from applying it's own continuous effect to itself (and since that effect gives Ultimus types, not abilities, Yixlid Jailer doesn't undo the result of the effect).
But the situation with Dralnu is simpler than that. There are two continuous effects: Dralnu gives flashback, Yixlid Jailer takes it away in a later layer, so the card doesn't have flashback in the end.
The giant "more detail than you ever believed necessary" Cranial Insertion article on layers is here and is a good reference for this kind of nonsense.
EDIT: Egad. I was just wrong, wrong, wrong. The Dralnu-Jailer interaction is simple, but it helps if you put Dralnu's effect in the right layer: layer 5, same as the Jailer.
I'll just quote from someone who know what they're talking about, i.e. Laurie himself:
This is one of the reasons why I'm not a judge.
Crap, this is REALLY a third un-set.
Yixlid Jailer we knew, but that is some fantastically evil looking art.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
And Yxilid Jailer = Harley Quinn?
Guildmaster Jarad
Correction - Jailer = #1 target for Putrefy.
B Ob Nixilis, The Fallen - EDH
R Red Deck Wins - Standard
R Burn- Legacy
RG Spiders! - Multiplayer
GW Enchantress -Casual
U/G Treshold - Casual
RGU Snake-Tongue Aggro-Control - Retired
W Old School Rebels! -Retired
Making contraptions, wishing I could make them twice as efficiently.
As far as memory problems...you could just attach the aura to the card in the graveyard like you would a permanent. That way you know it's enchanted, like people do with Imprint or other similar effects...similar to this simple picture...
Guildmaster Jarad
As I said in the other thread, Jailer is a great card. I also think the flavour text is disturbing!
.
I also love the Jailer's art, but it brings up something that bothers me about the futureshifted frames. Because the art box isn't a box at all, it looks like they commissioned art with a lot of horizontal movement. The frame itself draws your eye to the right, so the figures in the art seem to be moving or looking to the right more often than not. And because the frame is open on the right side, such figures appear to be moving or looking "off" the card. We've only seen a handful of these cards, but the Jailer is the exception in execution so far: the long, creepy arm accentuates movement to the left and keeps the piece balanced. Really phenomenal work, and I hope Cavotta has done a lot more for this set (it would make sense that they would have an in-house guy do a good chunk of the work; with the heightened security, I imagine Wizards would have wanted to keep the number of people who knew about the new frames to a minimum.)
I realize this is an exceeding small quibble, since there will only ever be 80 cards in these frames...just wanted to throw my two cents in.
Dredge decks don't even use Putrefy since it's useless when it's dredged into the yard.
Darkblast however takes care of the jailer nicely.
I'm speculating Wizards could end the rule about the graveyard having an order. They'd have to ban the cards that care about that (or offer very strange errata), but only one of them is good anyway, so no one will cry.
Then, since the graveyard doesn't need to be in order, you can just have your "unenchanted graveyard" pile and your "enchanted graveyard" pile.
You could arrange the Aura simply by having it rest in that diagonal shift position, rather that purely stacked atop, or only shifted parallel to the card.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].