Also, black land destruction is all but nonexistant at this point, tutoring is too (looks like it's going to blue as well), and most, if not all, of black card drawing involves them paying a fair chunk of life.
Ehh, not quite. Do people play black land destruction? No. It does exist though. Caustic Rain is a poor man's stone rain, but it works a bit better. Wrecking Ball is quite good (and instant speed), and doubles as creature destruction. And Helldozer really is great for many reasons. No, those cards are not currently in a T2 world champions deck, but that doesn't mean they dont EXIST.
Tutoring is definitely existant as well. Diabolic Tutor is the baseline tutor and its black and not bad at all. Infernal Tutor is also black and also a very decent card. In fact, besides mystical teachings what non-black tutors are there?
The flavor behind Damnation is more subtle than Wrath of God. A white mage plays Wrath of God to balance everything, make a fair deal for everyone. However, black sees what is really happening. Since when did you cast a Wrath of God for a "Fair" deal. In theory it is, but practice is very difference.
Black can Damnation because it Isn't fair, it wants an advantage and Wrath of God, and now Damnation is one of the greatest ways to get an advantage.
What I don't understand is how casting Wrath is ever not a fair deal from white's perspective. Outside of indestructible critters, the slate is clean. Scales balanced. Whatever happens outside of that is unrelated to the spell's flavorful intent IMHO. In practice, a wrath player usually makes the spell work it his/her advantage. But (and I'm just making a point here) would you rather the white mage balance the scales by dividing your army or copying the playing field or otherwise? Outside of killing them all, how is the battlefield to be balanced?
I agree Wrath can be stretched to fit black's flavor, but White is where it belongs.
Seems like some people think Black should be able to do anything for the right price, usually being life. Phyrexian Arena is not a 'balanced' card. Vampiric Tutor is not a balanced card. They both, along with others, have a 'drawback' that is laughable. White's Wrath flavour, to me, is more about wiping the slate clean and starting over than balancing, subtle difference. Black, to clear a board and start over, should come through effects like Grave Pact. I can see where the Black Wrath is in flavour, but it would be more in flavor to have some stipulation such as, as long as you have less creatures...Wrath the board. Or something. But overall, I'm not complaining.
4 Dark Rituals
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Torach
1 Mind Twist
1 Necropotence
1 Yawg's Bargin
1 Yawg's Will
1 Vampric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Consume Spirit
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Stronghold Overseers
2 Nev's Disk (just in case someone plays an artifact or enchant, you want gone.)
4 Damnnation
1 Black "Time Walk"
Acceleration, Discard, Disruption, Card Draw, Life Gain, Board Sweepers, Bust early plays, in one color. Maybe if we are lucky, we'll get a counterspell type of card. That would work very well with the above since black already has everything else pretty much.
I play since wetherlight and with this card TS' block took Mirrodin's place as most hated block for me. I hated the idea of bending the color pie and my favorite card, for quite some time, is ***....
What I don't understand is how casting Wrath is ever not a fair deal from white's perspective. Outside of indestructible critters, the slate is clean. Scales balanced. Whatever happens outside of that is unrelated to the spell's flavorful intent IMHO.
Because... white is the color of Order. Someone helping your enemy, but not actually doing anything directly wrong? Arrest them. If you get attacked? Now you can kill them. Don't want to get attacked in the first place? Tax the people who want to use your roads.
Setting off a nuke halfway between your village and your enemy's? Not a very white action.
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HOLLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now my black deck is gonna be better now with this card and ive been playing black for a while now and this is the best black removal card since mutilate
Because... white is the color of Order. Someone helping your enemy, but not actually doing anything directly wrong? Arrest them. If you get attacked? Now you can kill them. Don't want to get attacked in the first place? Tax the people who want to use your roads.
Setting off a nuke halfway between your village and your enemy's? Not a very white action.
Wrath of God by my standards is not directly orderly, i'll give you that. But White isn't just about order in the most obvious situations. However, as taken from Maro
Caught between the nature of green and the nurture of blue, white is all about balance. White understands the importance of valuing the past but also sees the importance of planning for the future. More than any other color white makes use of symbolism. In addition, white is the color of civilization. As such, the list of things it represents is slightly longer than the other colors:
Order Purity Religion Civilization Structure Law Honor Construction Morality Politics Courage Optimism Defense Strategy Chivalry Loyalty Cooperation Military Self-sacrifice Honesty Light Organization Community Medicine
A (military defense?) strategy that involves self-sacrifice that ends up leveling the playing field completely and balancing the creature count (to zero) pretty much sums up *** to me.
Wrath of God by my standards is not directly orderly, i'll give you that. But White isn't just about order in the most obvious situations. However, as taken from Maro
A (military defense?) strategy that involves self-sacrifice that ends up leveling the playing field completely and balancing the creature count (to zero) pretty much sums up *** to me.
Agreed, and white's perspective could be that of punishment. They are being attacked by others, and punishing them. They don't stop them from coming into their world, ala Counterspell, but they destroy a few of their own for the sake of the greater good if it comes to that. It also punishes the greed of the caster who overextends into their power and not showing patience. And it results in balance, the balance of zero and both having a new (equal in theory) beginning.
Personally, I feel that this is just one of many demands that WoTC is responding to. All of Timespiral is really about answering players demands that have built up over the last 10 years or so. I mean if you ask me Damnation is something that "black mages" have wanted to happen for years. It looks like a bright future is ahead for the game of Magic.
Order Purity Religion Civilization Structure Law Honor Construction Morality Politics Courage Optimism Defense Strategy Chivalry Loyalty Cooperation Military Self-sacrifice Honesty Light Organization Community Medicine
A (military defense?) strategy that involves self-sacrifice that ends up leveling the playing field completely and balancing the creature count (to zero) pretty much sums up *** to me.
... except for the part where it kills innocent people, which is kind of at odds with these:
OrderPurityReligionCivilizationStructureLawHonorConstructionMorality Politics Courage Optimism Defense Strategy ChivalryLoyaltyCooperation Military Self-sacrifice Honesty Light OrganizationCommunity Medicine
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I think mass death is something black should certainly feature. The best thing we've had would be Mutilate in recent years regarding it, MAYBE Death Cloud would be close. Kagemaro didn't cut it for me.
I think that it would be a very nice switch if they took *** out of the Core Set this 10th edition (something I had speculated on, though in meaning they'd power it down in a new card version still in white-- glad to see it back in Black).
Having them both in would be nonsensical. Maybe not though, considering Ravnica will be out shortly after 10th is out, and therefore you'd allow B or W control combinations. That's a stretch of a reason though.
It's great regardless, Black has always deserved Wrath. This also allows a valiant return to Wrath later.
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Wouldn't it be just funny that after handing out foil ***s as player rewards and allowing them to reach exorbitant prices, Wotc actually removes the card from the Core set? Then replacing it with Damnation, allowing it to reach exorbitant prices and then never reprinting it again?
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Wouldn't it be just funny that after handing out foil ***s as player rewards and allowing them to reach exorbitant prices, Wotc actually removes the card from the Core set? Then replacing it with Damnation, allowing it to reach exorbitant prices and then never reprinting it again?
Id find it funnier if they not only broke thier own flavor rules to do that, but also broke the rule of never putting a block mechnic (Planeshifted) card into the Core Set.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
I agree, black always needed mass kill on this level. And if I were to claim myself a black mage, Damnation is a welcome development. However, the majority of these posts are not only inferencing killing creatures in such a way as *** is exclusively Black flavor wise but never should have been in white. How quickly we all forget prior to the mass color pairing orgy and pie bleeding, WoTC was boasting about how they finally balanced everything and the Color pie was all good and stuff. *** was white then, specifically isn't now block wise, and will be after this semi-unhinged set is over. Making *** black almost proves that fact.
I love the art as well. It's like the reverse of the ***. A giant black void sucking everything into it versus the large white sun blasting everything away.
so uhm.... why should anyone play white now?
What next ? A black swords to plowshares and a black serenity?
Yes please. And when you're at, it throw in Armageddon and Disenchant. All kidding aside, shifting *** to black was long overdue, despite anyone's color preferences. Immagine red having a single counterspell that costs one mana. Blue would still be king of permission, but the best permission spell would be in another color. It was just like that when *** was concerned. If black is king of creature kill, it should have the best kill switch available.
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Okay, seriously. I actually did pum. I actually need to get a towel. This might be my favourite magic card ever printed, and a card I dreamed of since I started playing magic.
Of course actually getting a playset is gonna be a bastard and a half, since everyone and their sister is going to want these.
But still, im like so totally amazed by this im still not even sure I can comprehend that this is real.
*** isn't going anywhere. People have been whining about it and saying it's going to get pulled for like 6 years now. It's just not going to happen.
Jesus people, I'd make a comparison with some of the other planeshifted cards, but I can't think of any other card we know of that's a core set regular that people are likely to start screaming about...
Planeshifted cards are moved out of their natural colour and into one that doesn't normally have them. As such, this card is an anomaly, it is not the new norm. If this card was going to replace *** in the core set (which is especially unlikely since I think 10E would already be well and truly at the printers before this one hits the shelves... I'm pretty sure the shortest gap between a card being printed and it appearing in a core set was 2 sets (Invasion->7E for Elvish Champion).) then it would be a proper card with black text, not a planeshifted this-is-what-would-happen-if-we-gave-in-to-you-MBC-players card.
Let's just wait until august, and I'm willing to bet that *** comes back, just like it did in 8th, and just like it did in 9th. It's a staple card, WOTC knows how much it means to people, it doesn't break anything, and despite the whining from people who think it's too efficient, it's perfectly balanced.
They already stripped us of BOP, Counterspell, Duress, Disenchant, etc from the core set... I doubt they're going to screw white twice. (Besides, without *** in the core set, there's basically no reason to buy it now. It was bad enough in 9E when only *** was the money card of the set, unlike 8E with *** and BOP. Not to mention how bad this card would look with white borders)
its decided that a foil ninth *** and a foil Damnation need to be set next to each other and see who is more ticked off at the world...plus it would just look cool as all get out.
white is not losing wrath either...just this set.
*** isn't going anywhere. People have been whining about it and saying it's going to get pulled for like 6 years now. It's just not going to happen.
They already stripped us of BOP, Counterspell, Duress, Disenchant, etc from the core set... I doubt they're going to screw white twice.
Maybe it's going to be pulled... exactly because people have been wanting it to for six years? And from your own statement, it's obvious they won't shirk from it just because it's a 'staple'...
Innocent people? Since when are creatures you play innocent? They're all there in one way or another to help their controller's win the game.
Llanowar Elves, Thought Courier... things like that help your opponent, but from white's point of view, don't deserve to be killed, unless they're convinced to actually risk their fragile limbs in battle. There's a difference between fighting for your enemy, and farming for your enemy... at least, from white's point of view. Black and red don't care if you even are their enemy, they still might kill you.
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Ehh, not quite. Do people play black land destruction? No. It does exist though. Caustic Rain is a poor man's stone rain, but it works a bit better. Wrecking Ball is quite good (and instant speed), and doubles as creature destruction. And Helldozer really is great for many reasons. No, those cards are not currently in a T2 world champions deck, but that doesn't mean they dont EXIST.
Tutoring is definitely existant as well. Diabolic Tutor is the baseline tutor and its black and not bad at all. Infernal Tutor is also black and also a very decent card. In fact, besides mystical teachings what non-black tutors are there?
What I don't understand is how casting Wrath is ever not a fair deal from white's perspective. Outside of indestructible critters, the slate is clean. Scales balanced. Whatever happens outside of that is unrelated to the spell's flavorful intent IMHO. In practice, a wrath player usually makes the spell work it his/her advantage. But (and I'm just making a point here) would you rather the white mage balance the scales by dividing your army or copying the playing field or otherwise? Outside of killing them all, how is the battlefield to be balanced?
I agree Wrath can be stretched to fit black's flavor, but White is where it belongs.
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
MBC
3 Cabal Coffers
18 Snow Covered Swamps
4 Scrying Sheets
4 Dark Rituals
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Torach
1 Mind Twist
1 Necropotence
1 Yawg's Bargin
1 Yawg's Will
1 Vampric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Consume Spirit
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Stronghold Overseers
2 Nev's Disk (just in case someone plays an artifact or enchant, you want gone.)
4 Damnnation
1 Black "Time Walk"
Acceleration, Discard, Disruption, Card Draw, Life Gain, Board Sweepers, Bust early plays, in one color. Maybe if we are lucky, we'll get a counterspell type of card. That would work very well with the above since black already has everything else pretty much.
Because... white is the color of Order. Someone helping your enemy, but not actually doing anything directly wrong? Arrest them. If you get attacked? Now you can kill them. Don't want to get attacked in the first place? Tax the people who want to use your roads.
Setting off a nuke halfway between your village and your enemy's? Not a very white action.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
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Wrath of God by my standards is not directly orderly, i'll give you that. But White isn't just about order in the most obvious situations. However, as taken from Maro
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr57
A (military defense?) strategy that involves self-sacrifice that ends up leveling the playing field completely and balancing the creature count (to zero) pretty much sums up *** to me.
Agreed, and white's perspective could be that of punishment. They are being attacked by others, and punishing them. They don't stop them from coming into their world, ala Counterspell, but they destroy a few of their own for the sake of the greater good if it comes to that. It also punishes the greed of the caster who overextends into their power and not showing patience. And it results in balance, the balance of zero and both having a new (equal in theory) beginning.
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
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... except for the part where it kills innocent people, which is kind of at odds with these:
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I think that it would be a very nice switch if they took *** out of the Core Set this 10th edition (something I had speculated on, though in meaning they'd power it down in a new card version still in white-- glad to see it back in Black).
Having them both in would be nonsensical. Maybe not though, considering Ravnica will be out shortly after 10th is out, and therefore you'd allow B or W control combinations. That's a stretch of a reason though.
It's great regardless, Black has always deserved Wrath. This also allows a valiant return to Wrath later.
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Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
Id find it funnier if they not only broke thier own flavor rules to do that, but also broke the rule of never putting a block mechnic (Planeshifted) card into the Core Set.
Id find it hilarious.
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If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Innocent people? Since when are creatures you play innocent? They're all there in one way or another to help their controller's win the game.
You guys sure are stretching to find why wrath isnt white when WIZARDS EXPLAINS THEMSELVES WHY THEY SAY IT IS WHITE.
And really that's all the friggin matters. Damnation will not replace anything in a core set.
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I love the art as well. It's like the reverse of the ***. A giant black void sucking everything into it versus the large white sun blasting everything away.
I'm learning to make alters.
Yes please. And when you're at, it throw in Armageddon and Disenchant. All kidding aside, shifting *** to black was long overdue, despite anyone's color preferences. Immagine red having a single counterspell that costs one mana. Blue would still be king of permission, but the best permission spell would be in another color. It was just like that when *** was concerned. If black is king of creature kill, it should have the best kill switch available.
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Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
Of course actually getting a playset is gonna be a bastard and a half, since everyone and their sister is going to want these.
But still, im like so totally amazed by this im still not even sure I can comprehend that this is real.
Jesus people, I'd make a comparison with some of the other planeshifted cards, but I can't think of any other card we know of that's a core set regular that people are likely to start screaming about...
Planeshifted cards are moved out of their natural colour and into one that doesn't normally have them. As such, this card is an anomaly, it is not the new norm. If this card was going to replace *** in the core set (which is especially unlikely since I think 10E would already be well and truly at the printers before this one hits the shelves... I'm pretty sure the shortest gap between a card being printed and it appearing in a core set was 2 sets (Invasion->7E for Elvish Champion).) then it would be a proper card with black text, not a planeshifted this-is-what-would-happen-if-we-gave-in-to-you-MBC-players card.
Let's just wait until august, and I'm willing to bet that *** comes back, just like it did in 8th, and just like it did in 9th. It's a staple card, WOTC knows how much it means to people, it doesn't break anything, and despite the whining from people who think it's too efficient, it's perfectly balanced.
They already stripped us of BOP, Counterspell, Duress, Disenchant, etc from the core set... I doubt they're going to screw white twice. (Besides, without *** in the core set, there's basically no reason to buy it now. It was bad enough in 9E when only *** was the money card of the set, unlike 8E with *** and BOP. Not to mention how bad this card would look with white borders)
Black Wrath, i mean wtf were they thinking? Of course ill be having a play set, that goes without saying, but um.... i mean der, uh, what? Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded Retarded
Edit: Barfs
white is not losing wrath either...just this set.
Maybe it's going to be pulled... exactly because people have been wanting it to for six years? And from your own statement, it's obvious they won't shirk from it just because it's a 'staple'...
Llanowar Elves, Thought Courier... things like that help your opponent, but from white's point of view, don't deserve to be killed, unless they're convinced to actually risk their fragile limbs in battle. There's a difference between fighting for your enemy, and farming for your enemy... at least, from white's point of view. Black and red don't care if you even are their enemy, they still might kill you.
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