Oh how I wish I could see those playtest cards again. I wish somehow a link could appear in my private messages or email (eggs4ever at hotmail dot com), but I guess that's just not possible. For shame, the community is not able to do such things.
We seem to have pretty solid evidence to support the next blocks first set being called ''Time Spiral" but do we have anything beond that. All this talk of returning mechanics seems to be little more than pure speculation. If there is anything to suggest returning mechanics could someone please post it.
Personally, i think a block with more than one returning mechanic would be a bad idea. Also, it would have to be a relativly unexplored mechanic so they could do something fresh with it. If they were to bring back a mechanic i would love to see flashback.
We seem to have pretty solid evidence to support the next blocks first set being called ''Time Spiral" but do we have anything beond that. All this talk of returning mechanics seems to be little more than pure speculation. If there is anything to suggest returning mechanics could someone please post it.
Personally, i think a block with more than one returning mechanic would be a bad idea. Also, it would have to be a relativly unexplored mechanic so they could do something fresh with it. If they were to bring back a mechanic i would love to see flashback.
Thats my 2cc
The talk of returning mechanics is from previously, "illegally" obtained information, about which we cannot speak for fear of a certain company becoming enraged. The reason the confirmation of the name being Time Spiral is important is it validifies the previously obtained information.
The person I was replying to (and who I quoted) was talking about both.
Quote from Caranthir »
Ravnica, codenamed "Control" was also speculated to be a heavy-blue set. What it really was is another thing.
The truth is that the names, both codenames and real names, have almost absolutely no relevance to the set, at least if you are searching for some connections.
The person I was replying to (and who I quoted) was talking about both.
That's what I'm and was trying to say. Expansion: Time Spiral will not be Time Walk-laden cards.
Even though Caranthir stated this, no-one cares.
"Oh look, I think there is going to be: Time Walk, Time Warp, Time Stretch, Seed Time, Stitch in Time, etc." in Time Spiral. As for Cold Snap: Icy Manipulator, Glacial Ray, Frostwielder, Frost Ogre, Glacial Wall, Wall of Ice, etc."
As a matter of fact Magicmage, I care.
If this is going to be your attitiude while posting here in the mill, I suggest you rethink it.
We're here to discuss, speculate and enjoy the rumor season bro, and this post is acheiving none of these.
Careful.
And on one level you're right. But on another you're quite wrong. The level on which you are right is the level of game mechanics. As you said, Time Spiral will not be full of cards like Time Spiral. The other level, however, is more complicated. It's all about flavour. The flavour of a set is supposed to be reflected in the name, so one can draw certain conclusions from the name about the flavour. From the flavour, one can draw conclusions about the cards (because the cards also reflect the flavour).
@Ith: Yes, among the real names there can be found some relevant names, Torment, Legions and Fifth Dawn being the best. But compared to the rest, this is a rare occurence.
The point of my post was, as stated by Danbanzero and others, that you cannot 100% extrapolate a theme of the set from the fact that its name is the same as an old an powerful card. Doing this with the codenames would be even greater mistake.
And as for the name itself: it is most probable that the "Time" thing will be focused upon Teferi and his phased-back lands, and the fact that the Mother of the MTG story will be revisited again, as it was promised 6 years ago. And, of course, that there will be probably featured the mechanics of old days...flanking Zhalfirin Knights etc. Just like taking a time machine and revisiting past era of MTG.
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@Ith: Yes, among the real names there can be found some relevant names, Torment, Legions and Fifth Dawn being the best. But compared to the rest, this is a rare occurence.
The point of my post was, as stated by Danbanzero and others, that you cannot 100% extrapolate a theme of the set from the fact that its name is the same as an old an powerful card. Doing this with the codenames would be even greater mistake.
And as for the name itself: it is most probable that the "Time" thing will be focused upon Teferi and his phased-back lands, and the fact that the Mother of the MTG story will be revisited again, as it was promised 6 years ago. And, of course, that there will be probably featured the mechanics of old days...flanking Zhalfirin Knights etc. Just like taking a time machine and revisiting past era of MTG.
Although I agree that many names are not indicative of the set's theme, I don't think it's the case here. The fact that they chose to use a name which already exists in the Magic universe seems to say that it is particularly appropriate. If it didn't really describe the set very well, I think they'd find one that does describe it at least as well and also isn't the same card.
Lets just hope that this logic is flawed. Because if Coldsnap is chock full of cards like Cold Snap, it just might spark a literal ice age in magic sales!
I must eat my words at this point. I was fairly skeptical that any of this was real. In any event I can't find the article but wizards stated quite some time ago that they were planning on going back to dominaria and exploring what happened to the phased out areas like Shiv.
Interesting. I hope that they don't print too many cards with boring mechanics like flanking. I would love to see more cool cards with morph, flashback, ect...
Madness and threshold would make me extremely happy
Even if the madness sucked, I would still like more options for my Wild Research deck.
Madness... I would'nt bet on that one. Wizards has acknowledged that it was a mistake to make a draw back (discarding cards) into a benefit.
No offense but I really hope they take that mistake seriously.
Interesting. I just got the Advisory E-mail & instead of "Time Spiral" mine says "A Fall 2006 Release"
Looks like someone at the advisory company got told to change that.
By meshing sets and mechanics together, WotC gets to do what EXT players do, but in Standard. Mesh mechanics together in decks. Dredge + Threshold AND Flashback... combo or what? There have been numberous times that two sets mechanics (and themed cards) work well with older mechanics or themes. Although WotC will have a chance to stop these "incredibly good" interactions from breaking every format, they can still leave powerful deck archetypes in Standard.
Um... heck no. Putting all three of those together in Standard would be broken; dredge is already borderline broken on its own, even without adding those to it. If they reused one of those it'd probably be okay, but both would probably prove degenerate. Honestly, I think Threshold alone would be degenerate, because suddenly it becomes easy to have threshold very early game. When I can dredge a Darkblast turn 2, and a Golgari Grave Troll turn 3, I've got threshold already and can drop whatever undercosted green or black threshold creature I want.
As for mechanics returning; there are some which won't return and some which will. Cycling is probably the third most powerful mechanic ever, but I don't expect to see it return again so soon. I'd guess it'd be older mechanics mostly, which probably means stuff like flanking. Kicker probably won't come back for a while, and honestly it may be too soon for madness. It may be that cumulative upkeep will come back (it was, after all, the very first recurring mechanic which was not permanently added to the game). Oddly, with Coldsnap, perhaps something else will come back as well - snow-covered lands. They weren't well-explored the first time, and I could see them being used mechanically again, though it may just be that they only show up in coldsnap, which would be a pity - I'd really like for snow-covered lands to be good. Plus, its fun to play with the second set of five basic lands.
It'd be a very bad idea, though, for Wizards to do a block which did nothing but rehash old mechanics. The reason for this is that rehashing old mechanics uses them up somewhat. Cycling still has more space to explore, but other mechanics, such as flanking, can only do so much. I'd say that eating up old mechanics is a bad idea because it means you can't use them again, so you should reuse them sparingly.
Honestly, given the name, there's a pretty good chance it will involve either the Tolarian Academy or Teferi; if it is the latter, it might well even involve phasing, which might explain the release of Mirage on Magic Online and its reworked rules. Phasing is not the cleanest of mechanics, but it could be interesting to see again. And it, like cumulative upkeep and flanking, are -old- mechanics, and thus could very easily be reused, with only a few veterans like myself really remembering what it was like to play with those (or not play with those, as was the case with most of them. But still).
Looking at the list of mechanics, you've got these:
Madness
Free mechanic
Pitch mechanic
Dredge
Which can be broken. The free mechanic won't come back on spells you can just throw out there; its just too breakable. The pitch mechanic is a general game mechanic now, but it is watched closely and generally put on overcosted cards that you really need to pitch good stuff to to make work well (see the Kamigawa pitch cards). Madness is very powerful, but I don't think it will be reprinted anytime soon because of the massive design restrictions it makes - discarding can't be a real cost in extended right now, so until it rotates out they can't print cards which allow you to pitch stuff too easily. And dredge was just printed, and they're really worried about it still - I think people really have no conception of just how dangerous dredge is as a mechanic. Though, if nothing broken occurs, I'd expect it to come back eventually (and that time to be the final time, as they're bound to print something which is broken if they visit dredge again).
Other mechanics are too recent:
Kicker
Sunburst
Modular
Affinity
Convoke
Radiance
Transmute
Sweep
Wisdom
Spiritcraft
Splice onto X
Bushido
And most likely, you're looking at everything since Masques being too recent really, as it is all still in extended. They might pillage one of the post-masques, pre-mirrodin mechanics.
I personally am not a big fan of returning to Dominaria, though; I got enough of it the first time.
Hayama
Interesting. I just got the Advisory E-mail & instead of "Time Spiral" mine says "A Fall 2006 Release" Looks like someone at the advisory company got told to change that.
I think your the only one telling us what the e-mail really said.Why would Wizards go ape sh!# over someone getting some playtest card scans,then turn around and send emails to people confiming it.I guess will have to wait till mid to late Fed for them to tell us.They did during Darksteel to show Kamigawa and during Betrayers to tell us about Ravnica.Lets hope the pattern holds.
Titanium Dragon
I personally am not a big fan of returning to Dominaria, though; I got enough of it the first time.
Thank you.It felt like i was the only person who felt that way.
Flanking would be nice to see come back,it sucked that bushido was only in three colors,and flanking was in all so no colors get left out.I really really really hope they don't bring morph back.I've played yugioh and morph reaks to much of it.At least in yugioh it works because they game was made to play that way but,i think its sad Wizards decided to make a mechanic similar to it.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
And most likely, you're looking at everything since Masques being too recent really, as it is all still in extended.
That's kind of an illogical statement...
Anything that was more than three blocks ago (the Cycling-in-Onslaught gold standard) should be legit -- that means anything from Onslaught back would be viable. I think Kicker is a very likely candidate -- it's got tons of design space left to be explored and it's pretty unlikely to become broken.
Actually, I think that Time Spiral will also bring some of the Ravnica mechanics back. I am not aware of any official policy as for reusing the mechanics. Ravnica brings ten new keyword mechanics but has very little space to develop them - so it could very well be that one or two will be brought back and explored more the very next block (the more that it seems to be "fractured mechanics" block too )
Thanks for the awesome sig Topher!
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We seem to have pretty solid evidence to support the next blocks first set being called ''Time Spiral" but do we have anything beond that. All this talk of returning mechanics seems to be little more than pure speculation. If there is anything to suggest returning mechanics could someone please post it.
Personally, i think a block with more than one returning mechanic would be a bad idea. Also, it would have to be a relativly unexplored mechanic so they could do something fresh with it. If they were to bring back a mechanic i would love to see flashback.
Thats my 2cc
So, yes, there is a space between time and spiral.
Edit: I think that flashback and kicker have still more potential than has been used so far. Kicker should become a regular keyword like trample IMHO.
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lookin good and I can't wait for the next inane slogan!
The talk of returning mechanics is from previously, "illegally" obtained information, about which we cannot speak for fear of a certain company becoming enraged. The reason the confirmation of the name being Time Spiral is important is it validifies the previously obtained information.
The person I was replying to (and who I quoted) was talking about both.
That's what I'm and was trying to say. Expansion: Time Spiral will not be Time Walk-laden cards.
Even though Caranthir stated this, no-one cares.
"Oh look, I think there is going to be: Time Walk, Time Warp, Time Stretch, Seed Time, Stitch in Time, etc." in Time Spiral. As for Cold Snap: Icy Manipulator, Glacial Ray, Frostwielder, Frost Ogre, Glacial Wall, Wall of Ice, etc."
As a matter of fact Magicmage, I care.
If this is going to be your attitiude while posting here in the mill, I suggest you rethink it.
We're here to discuss, speculate and enjoy the rumor season bro, and this post is acheiving none of these.
Careful.
And on one level you're right. But on another you're quite wrong. The level on which you are right is the level of game mechanics. As you said, Time Spiral will not be full of cards like Time Spiral. The other level, however, is more complicated. It's all about flavour. The flavour of a set is supposed to be reflected in the name, so one can draw certain conclusions from the name about the flavour. From the flavour, one can draw conclusions about the cards (because the cards also reflect the flavour).
@Ith: Yes, among the real names there can be found some relevant names, Torment, Legions and Fifth Dawn being the best. But compared to the rest, this is a rare occurence.
The point of my post was, as stated by Danbanzero and others, that you cannot 100% extrapolate a theme of the set from the fact that its name is the same as an old an powerful card. Doing this with the codenames would be even greater mistake.
And as for the name itself: it is most probable that the "Time" thing will be focused upon Teferi and his phased-back lands, and the fact that the Mother of the MTG story will be revisited again, as it was promised 6 years ago. And, of course, that there will be probably featured the mechanics of old days...flanking Zhalfirin Knights etc. Just like taking a time machine and revisiting past era of MTG.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Although I agree that many names are not indicative of the set's theme, I don't think it's the case here. The fact that they chose to use a name which already exists in the Magic universe seems to say that it is particularly appropriate. If it didn't really describe the set very well, I think they'd find one that does describe it at least as well and also isn't the same card.
Go ahead, click on that stinker of a card. lol
Interesting. I hope that they don't print too many cards with boring mechanics like flanking. I would love to see more cool cards with morph, flashback, ect...
Even if the madness sucked, I would still like more options for my Wild Research deck.
Madness... I would'nt bet on that one. Wizards has acknowledged that it was a mistake to make a draw back (discarding cards) into a benefit.
No offense but I really hope they take that mistake seriously.
Looks like someone at the advisory company got told to change that.
Um... heck no. Putting all three of those together in Standard would be broken; dredge is already borderline broken on its own, even without adding those to it. If they reused one of those it'd probably be okay, but both would probably prove degenerate. Honestly, I think Threshold alone would be degenerate, because suddenly it becomes easy to have threshold very early game. When I can dredge a Darkblast turn 2, and a Golgari Grave Troll turn 3, I've got threshold already and can drop whatever undercosted green or black threshold creature I want.
As for mechanics returning; there are some which won't return and some which will. Cycling is probably the third most powerful mechanic ever, but I don't expect to see it return again so soon. I'd guess it'd be older mechanics mostly, which probably means stuff like flanking. Kicker probably won't come back for a while, and honestly it may be too soon for madness. It may be that cumulative upkeep will come back (it was, after all, the very first recurring mechanic which was not permanently added to the game). Oddly, with Coldsnap, perhaps something else will come back as well - snow-covered lands. They weren't well-explored the first time, and I could see them being used mechanically again, though it may just be that they only show up in coldsnap, which would be a pity - I'd really like for snow-covered lands to be good. Plus, its fun to play with the second set of five basic lands.
It'd be a very bad idea, though, for Wizards to do a block which did nothing but rehash old mechanics. The reason for this is that rehashing old mechanics uses them up somewhat. Cycling still has more space to explore, but other mechanics, such as flanking, can only do so much. I'd say that eating up old mechanics is a bad idea because it means you can't use them again, so you should reuse them sparingly.
Honestly, given the name, there's a pretty good chance it will involve either the Tolarian Academy or Teferi; if it is the latter, it might well even involve phasing, which might explain the release of Mirage on Magic Online and its reworked rules. Phasing is not the cleanest of mechanics, but it could be interesting to see again. And it, like cumulative upkeep and flanking, are -old- mechanics, and thus could very easily be reused, with only a few veterans like myself really remembering what it was like to play with those (or not play with those, as was the case with most of them. But still).
Looking at the list of mechanics, you've got these:
Madness
Free mechanic
Pitch mechanic
Dredge
Which can be broken. The free mechanic won't come back on spells you can just throw out there; its just too breakable. The pitch mechanic is a general game mechanic now, but it is watched closely and generally put on overcosted cards that you really need to pitch good stuff to to make work well (see the Kamigawa pitch cards). Madness is very powerful, but I don't think it will be reprinted anytime soon because of the massive design restrictions it makes - discarding can't be a real cost in extended right now, so until it rotates out they can't print cards which allow you to pitch stuff too easily. And dredge was just printed, and they're really worried about it still - I think people really have no conception of just how dangerous dredge is as a mechanic. Though, if nothing broken occurs, I'd expect it to come back eventually (and that time to be the final time, as they're bound to print something which is broken if they visit dredge again).
Other mechanics are too recent:
Kicker
Sunburst
Modular
Affinity
Convoke
Radiance
Transmute
Sweep
Wisdom
Spiritcraft
Splice onto X
Bushido
And most likely, you're looking at everything since Masques being too recent really, as it is all still in extended. They might pillage one of the post-masques, pre-mirrodin mechanics.
I personally am not a big fan of returning to Dominaria, though; I got enough of it the first time.
I think your the only one telling us what the e-mail really said.Why would Wizards go ape sh!# over someone getting some playtest card scans,then turn around and send emails to people confiming it.I guess will have to wait till mid to late Fed for them to tell us.They did during Darksteel to show Kamigawa and during Betrayers to tell us about Ravnica.Lets hope the pattern holds.
Thank you.It felt like i was the only person who felt that way.
Flanking would be nice to see come back,it sucked that bushido was only in three colors,and flanking was in all so no colors get left out.I really really really hope they don't bring morph back.I've played yugioh and morph reaks to much of it.At least in yugioh it works because they game was made to play that way but,i think its sad Wizards decided to make a mechanic similar to it.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
That's kind of an illogical statement...
Anything that was more than three blocks ago (the Cycling-in-Onslaught gold standard) should be legit -- that means anything from Onslaught back would be viable. I think Kicker is a very likely candidate -- it's got tons of design space left to be explored and it's pretty unlikely to become broken.
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You are aware that extended starts with Invasion, not Masques?