Hopefully the only "crackdown" necessarily will be the members who post here, on themselves. It's unfortunate that some people speak simply to hear themselves talking, or see their little number go up.
Xen, the reason "those rules aren't working" is because people aren't following them. I'm asking that people do. Of course not everyone will read this, or heed it. Those people will simply have their posts removed so that the quality members of the Rumor Mill can read, understand, and contribute to rumor discussions. People who cause a lot of work (ie: erasing posts) for the moderators will be warned about it, and eventually suspended/banned if it comes to that.
I just wanted to say something to those who are asking for a poll in Rumor Mill threads, or a list of "who thinks it's real and who thinks it's fake". The fact of the matter is, only a small portion of Rumor Mill threads are "real or fake" discussions. That's not what the Rumor Mill is about, and those who are suggesting this option are probably under the impression the Rumor Mill is a place to post fake cards and then argue about them publicly. That mentality is wrong and will be punished. I can make it so that people are unable to post in the Rumor Mill, without suspending or banning their accounts. Don't be among those who find themselves suddenly unable to participate here.
Well, I think most of the people posting in THIS thread aren't the ones causing the problem--though of course, I'm not a mod and haven't had to delete posts and look for recurring names or anything. As R_E just said, it's those that either don't read the guidelines or don't heed them that are the problem--some can be taught, through warnings and whatnot. A few will keep posting their idiocy regardless, and they are the ones that would get banned regardless.
Anyway, it looks mostly like everyone who had something to say about this has, the consensus at the very least being increased (and, perhaps, harsher) warnings for useless/annoying posts. I still like the idea of getting rid of members' post counts, but I've said that already and it is up to the mods to decide. As to making new 'compilation' or summary threads every so often for active discussions... hopefully, increased enforcement will make the threads more managable.
PS: As Urzassedatives suggested, I've used the 'report post' button a few times already. Hope it's helping.
I hope you realize, VestDan, that there are already "compilation" threads. The RAV one was kept up to date with all information obtained, right in the first post. The last edit there was about 3 or 4 days ago - when we got the last known info. As for 9th, there is an up to date spoiler, and all ongoing discussions are open, and all finished or fake discussions are closed. I don't think we can moderate any more efficiently than we have been.
And yes, reporting posts helps. I eventually get to reading almost every post made in this forum (not necessarily the subforums though) but reports draw our attention to problems even faster.
Removing post count from Salvation isn't a matter for the Rumor Mill. Take this discussion, and other full-site discussions, to the appropriate place.
compilation threads: Hmm, so long as the first post keeps updating new info, perhaps including what has been discussed in the thread between updates? And, maybe just editing the title to SAY when it was updated, so people know to read the first post again? That shouldn't be too hard, and would be quite helpful--it doens't occur to many to REread the first post in a thread periodically.
Instead of having a moderator summarize what everyone else is saying, how about people just read the thread? I put 3+ hours a day into the Rumor Mill alone, even during quiet times, and can't spare any more, especially to do for others what they should be doing for themselves.
If you're here only to speak, and not listen to anyone else, maybe you shouldn't be here.
I started a "Should we keep post count?" thread over in the community area. As for summarizing... HOPEFULLY, we can whip people around here back into shape and threads won't be unreadably long anymore.
Ok, long time luker, very infrequent poster here, on the original server for salvation, on news, and elsewhere.
Please, dear god, don't discourage us lurkers from visiting the board and adding our own opinions. Post count rewards are fine, but post count punishments (ie. for low counts) would probably stop me from being a part of this community. Earlier someone brought up the subject of "Join" date and similar rewards/punishments, but this can also hamper us lurkers because some don't even bother to "memberize," however it is still far more elegent than other options.
The implementation that is probably the easiest to enforce is just to just monitor your own threads, if you feel as though information is pertinent to the threads "owner" PM him/her and ask them to add the info to their first post in the thread. In this manner a summary can be maintained without the original poster being forced to read through countless posts just to find the info. This however may lead to an abuse of the PM system, but seeing as many new users do not read forum rules/guidelines they may very likely not see that it is proper etiquitte to PM the "owner."
Anyways, I am still more happy at this forum than most other forums I have ever been at, mainly because of the lack of rude/inconsiderate posters and the very admirable job of the Mods. The rumor mill functions as well as the users who post in it.
I am going to say something that I am sure will offend some people here, but I have never let the possiblity of offending people get in the way of the truth in the past and I am not about to start now. One of the major porblems of this forum, and indeed all magic forums, is the matruaty of the userbase. The fact of the matter is that magic forums are dominated by adolescents. If you go to forums with a more mature audience you do not see spamming, trolling and flamming taking place to nearly the degree that you see it at magic sites. "Children" need supervision because they simply have not developed the social abilities of "adults" (yes some adults also have not developed these abilities), and as such sites dominated by a younger crowd just need more moderating then those dominated by an older crowd. Go visit some more adult oriented forums and you will see a very clear difference.
I am going to say something that I am sure will offend some people here, but I have never let the possiblity of offending people get in the way of the truth in the past and I am not about to start now. One of the major porblems of this forum, and indeed all magic forums, is the matruaty of the userbase. The fact of the matter is that magic forums are dominated by adolescents. If you go to forums with a more mature audience you do not see spamming, trolling and flamming taking place to nearly the degree that you see it at magic sites. "Children" need supervision because they simply have not developed the social abilities of "adults" (yes some adults also have not developed these abilities), and as such sites dominated by a younger crowd just need more moderating then those dominated by an older crowd. Go visit some more adult oriented forums and you will see a very clear difference.
Not to start an argument...but take a look at places like somethingawful, totalfark, tuckermax, etc. The same type of flaming does take place. In a community thats sole existance is to provide discussion, people will have vastly different opinions which inevitable cause problems.
I will admit, that gaming sites typically do have a higher ratio of this, simply because the dominant market for those games are teens. Misetings is a perfect example. I love the site to death, but its tough to get used to that (and by "get used to" I mean add enough people to your ignore list).
That isn't really the problem here. The problem is everyone feeling they need to chime in on a topic, disregarding the obviousness of their statement (REAL/FAKE!!!) and without reading the previous pages of discussion. This leads to threads of virtual infinate size where the same conversation is repated ad-infitum. Its boring to those of us who do read the entire thread.
I'll repeat it again. Post count isn't an issue here. Anyone who contributes in a legitimate way gets recognized for that contribution. I don't know anyone I recognized solely because of their postcount...maybe I'm in the minority on that one.
I believe that all the legitimate solutions have already been discussed, so I can't offer any more to that..but I just wanted to clarify that the problem is not just caused by "childish" posters. The mods clean those people up quite nicely as it is.
There should be restirctions on the minimum amount of content per post In the Rumor Mill. People shouldnt just be able to post "I agree" or "zOMG t3h worst ability! Magic is t3h suck!"...there should be stricter Spam Warnings given out on this forum IMO. Also, there should be restrictions to be allowed to post threads here, such as only mods or if you have given REAL info before.
Heh, is there any way we could show word count instead of post count?
The best suggestion I've seen so far, though, besides we ourselves just making sure not to post stupid spam, is to use that 'report spam' button whenever we see an offending post. The only probelm with this is, while the posts are removed and person probably warned, anyone who looks where that post used to be would have no idea it was there. While this may seem good, we're missing an opportunity--if you just LEAVE the post, and add BIG ANGRY LETTERS about how USELESS and STUPID the post was, you convey the same lesson not just to that poster, but to anyone else who reads it.
You're complaining about how long it takes you to read threads where there are a bunch of one lined opinions. Does it really take you that long to read a one line post?
Seriously, if there are 10 posts in a row that simply say "fake", how long does it take you to read and scroll past all of them? 10 seconds? How about an entire page of them? 20 seconds if you stop scrolling for each one? I can't imagine your life is too busy to simply scroll down the page to see nothing interesting. CNN.com is my homepage, and I scroll down it to get an overview of the news in about one minute, and I read all the little captions.
THIS is what ACVAR is talking about. The maturity level comes into play by realizing that yes, it's annoying to load a page, scroll down it, and click the next one 10 seconds later. But life is annoying. People cross the street while you have a green light. People talk on their cell phones in movies. Gas prices keep going up. Being mature means ignoring the little things so that you keep your stress level low and concentrate on what's important.
Is a one lined "fake/real" contributing much? No. But by complaining about it, you're taking 10 seconds it took you to scroll through 10 of them and making it 5 minutes by posting a complaint-- adding to your own misery. Just like people yelling "SHHHH" at the guy talking on the cell phone in the movie, you're exacerbating your own problem. Ignore it and you'll be back to a 10 second annoyance in no time.
peace
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"If your liver winds up in a dish with a little ruler next to it, there's something wrong with your liver." -Dr. Mahl, GI specialist, UB Med
It's not the posts we skip. It's the posts we miss because we're skipping, and the entire pages full of garbage that we have to wait to load up.
I think you're blowing this out of proportion. It just doesn't take that much time to scroll through everything. That's not a personal attack on you, it's just my opinion:
If you're missing stuff because you're scrolling down too fast and can't read that fast, scroll a little slower. Instead of blindly scrolling down the page in 10 seconds, take that extra 10 seconds to stop scrolling at each post before you make sure it's nothing that you personally aren't interested in. 20 seconds isn't a lot of time to scroll down a page, and you won't miss any posts while skipping the ones you don't want to read.
The small amount of extra time that you'd spend being a tiny bit more meticulous will solve your problem. This is taught in reading comprehension classes -- it takes you 3 minutes to quickly read a paragraph, but you won't read it carefully, so you'll have to spend another 3 minutes reading it over again. OR, you could read the paragraph in 4 minutes, get it all, and have read it more effectively 2 minutes faster.
As for the slow loading, I'm sorry you have a 56k modem, but there is another option. I realize broadband is still a "luxury", but it is out there and people do pay extra money for it. People who do pay that extra money shouldn't be forced not to post so that people who don't have it don't have to read posts they personally don't feel are interesting.
I'm not justifying one word posts, but someone out there may like reading all those concise opinions.
peace
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"If your liver winds up in a dish with a little ruler next to it, there's something wrong with your liver." -Dr. Mahl, GI specialist, UB Med
-Have never had dial-up and have no idea what you're talking about and are very ignorant.
-Maybe once had it but forgot what it was like and still don't know what you're talking about.
-Have dial-up and are just arguing for the hell of it to be annoying.
This post, and the rebuttal post, are both flames.
Flame warning.
We are trying to have a civil discussion here.
I think you're blowing this out of proportion. It just doesn't take that much time to scroll through everything. That's not a personal attack on you, it's just my opinion:
If you're missing stuff because you're scrolling down too fast and can't read that fast, scroll a little slower. Instead of blindly scrolling down the page in 10 seconds, take that extra 10 seconds to stop scrolling at each post before you make sure it's nothing that you personally aren't interested in. 20 seconds isn't a lot of time to scroll down a page, and you won't miss any posts while skipping the ones you don't want to read.
The small amount of extra time that you'd spend being a tiny bit more meticulous will solve your problem. This is taught in reading comprehension classes -- it takes you 3 minutes to quickly read a paragraph, but you won't read it carefully, so you'll have to spend another 3 minutes reading it over again. OR, you could read the paragraph in 4 minutes, get it all, and have read it more effectively 2 minutes faster.
As for the slow loading, I'm sorry you have a 56k modem, but there is another option. I realize broadband is still a "luxury", but it is out there and people do pay extra money for it. People who do pay that extra money shouldn't be forced not to post so that people who don't have it don't have to read posts they personally don't feel are interesting.
I'm not justifying one word posts, but someone out there may like reading all those concise opinions.
peace
Not to sound snippy, but it isn't a comprehension or retention issue at all. If I am reading through a thread, take the recent Wine poster for example, and see a discussion on page 3 about "The corner of the Hyppie isnt on straight". When I see that exact same discussion on page 9 started by someone who hasn't read through the thread, your darn right I'm only going to skim it. Then what happens when someone, in the middle of that repeat conversation posts (who has read the thread) and posts something valuable and informative. It happens ALL THE TIME. Valid discussion topics get lost in the repeats. One word "fake/real" posts aren't discussion at all: they are a poll. This isn't a "poll board" it is a "discussion board".
Common sence, common courtacy, and the golden rule. How many people reading this actually enjoy reading other peoples baseless oppinions with no backup, and nothing new to contribute. How many of you honestly like reading 12 posts saying me too, or not me. Don't bother replying because I think we all know that nobody does. So if you do not like reading such things from other poeple why, oh why, do you believe that your baseless 1 line oppinion is so noteworthy that you must share it whith everybody. Nobody cares. You should not need rules about no 1 liners. Heck there are times when 1 liners are what is called for, but people should have enough common sences, and common courtacy to understand that most of the time such things are very annoying to most people, and paticularly annoying to people with slow connections and moderators. Before you post ask yourself "would I want to read this if ????? posted it?".
-Have never had dial-up and have no idea what you're talking about and are very ignorant. -Maybe once had it but forgot what it was like and still don't know what you're talking about. -Have dial-up and are just arguing for the hell of it to be annoying.
Are personal insults really necessary? I didn't have a single bad thing to say about you, nor anyone else in my post. Please stop taking opinions and suggestions that are not your own personally. I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else, but trying to help someone who was having trouble finding the "good stuff".
These are the kinds of posts you yourself are arguing about stopping:
Not only doesn't your post make much sense, but it's not in complete sentences and doesn't back up whatever point it was you were trying to make. Moreover, it's blatantly insulting, and it's only intention is to try and hurt my feelings. (which it didn't)
Your rallying for reform means nothing if you yourself are contributing to the problem.
My comments about 56k: Metaphor: a friend has $6 to buy an ice cream cone, and you only have $4. Would it be fair to demand your friend only buy a $4 cone because you can't buy a more expensive one?
To demand that people who pay for the more expensive broadband not post because you don't want to load it is selfish. Your decision not to pay for a faster connection is a decision that you have to live with. We pay more so that we can load faster and post more.
Tidwell, if you're missing posts because they get lost in the "mess" of 1 line posts, my suggestion was to scroll through them slower. You're scrolling through them quickly anyway (which is the problem), why not take the extra 10 seconds to do it a little slower and more methodically to make sure you don't miss anything. 10 seconds isn't a time killer, and you'll read the insightful information instead of missing it (reading comprehension).
peace
Responding to a flame. Is. A. Flame.
Flame Warning.
You are flaming him right back.
This thread is for civil discussion.
Stop arguing , a lot of users have 56k connections and we like to accomodate them as best we can.
Sorry but this one is really out there. If you really wanted to accomidate them then you would not have that banner at the end of your post and neither would any other poster. This is definatly a modern high bandwidth site.
Sorry but this one is really out there. If you really wanted to accomidate them then you would not have that banner at the end of your post and neither would any other poster. This is definatly a modern high bandwidth site.
I, having 56k dial-up myself, can load pages like these rather quickly. Banners don't take up that much space. Avvys are in gif format, about 20-35kb, so they load in a few seconds.
Banners are in jpeg format, and are about 70k. (I don't make avvys or banners so these figures are guesses) They may take a little longer to load, but really not more than about 6 seconds.
I just loaded this page, and it took about 7 seconds or so.
Now if stuff was in bmp, that's a different story.
To me the Rumor Mill should stay as bureaucracy(sp?) free as possible. People like hearing about new developments in their favorite game. They love to rejoice, to express themselves, to be a part of the experience no matter how small.If people make one line posts to thank a source, should they be punished?Hell no! Gratitude is what is going to keep the info flowing, and the sources eager to share. Not only that, its extremely rude to the poster to punish them for doing a universally kind thing. The kind of impression that leaves on a new poster is one of authoritarianism and unkindness. It would make them reclusive and uncomfortable about posting at all. You can't simply treat all posts of certain nature in the same way, they need to be treated in a case by case basis. If a person has less than 25 posts they wouldn't know any better...and if there really is a problem a mod can just send them a short PM.
Those who cause real problems are in the extreme minority and the majority should not be at fault for this. Only real flames, not challenges of debating nature, should be warned. For spam, it gets a bit more complicated. You can't expect every post to be perfect in a forum this large, so why try and intimidate the masses. I'm sure it would only take a minor adjustment to the site to make thread highlights/indexes/summaries work for those who don't want to dredge through every post. Also, like I mentioned above posts need to be taken in a case by case basis. Spam needs to be more closely monitored for intent, not violation.
Here is my system for judging if something is spam or not in the Rumor Mill. If something appears to be spam the poster may still have good intentions and should not be immediatly considered for punishment if four or more of the following apply:
-The poster is new.
-The ideas in the post are old but their wording is new. Something previously posted may have been lost on the reader's understanding by the way it was worded.
-There is no unrelated subject material.
-The poster explicitly states that they didn't have enough time to read through the thread and apologised for it.
-The poster wants to discuss two or more previously stated things/ideas to show a link between them.
-The poster shows an effort to try and contribute something useful.
-The post is more than 75 words in length and is written intellegently.
-The poster shows gratitude to the source(s).
-The poster is very young.
-The poster is mentally handicapped.
-The poster doesn't know English very well.
This system seems fair to me because it respects both poster and forum. Even if the person doesn't earn a warning they could still receive a PM if a mod deems it necessary. The number of post qualifications could be lowered to three or raised to five as needed and the system would still work almost all of the time.
To me the Rumor Mill should stay as bureaucracy(sp?) free as possible. People like hearing about new developments in their favorite game. They love to rejoice, to express themselves, to be a part of the experience no matter how small.If people make one line posts to thank a source, should they be punished?Hell no! Gratitude is what is going to keep the info flowing, and the sources eager to share. Not only that, its extremely rude to the poster to punish them for doing a universally kind thing. The kind of impression that leaves on a new poster is one of authoritarianism and unkindness. It would make them reclusive and uncomfortable about posting at all. You can't simply treat all posts of certain nature in the same way, they need to be treated in a case by case basis. If a person has less than 25 posts they wouldn't know any better...and if there really is a problem a mod can just send them a short PM.
Those who cause real problems are in the extreme minority and the majority should not be at fault for this. Only real flames, not challenges of debating nature, should be warned. For spam, it gets a bit more complicated. You can't expect every post to be perfect in a forum this large, so why try and intimidate the masses. I'm sure it would only take a minor adjustment to the site to make thread highlights/indexes/summaries work for those who don't want to dredge through every post. Also, like I mentioned above posts need to be taken in a case by case basis. Spam needs to be more closely monitored for intent, not violation.
Here is my system for judging if something is spam or not in the Rumor Mill. If something appears to be spam the poster may still have good intentions and should not be immediatly considered for punishment if four or more of the following apply:
-The poster is new.
-The ideas in the post are old but their wording is new. Something previously posted may have been lost on the reader's understanding by the way it was worded.
-There is no unrelated subject material.
-The poster explicitly states that they didn't have enough time to read through the thread and apologised for it.
-The poster wants to discuss two or more previously stated things/ideas to show a link between them.
-The poster shows an effort to try and contribute something useful.
-The post is more than 75 words in length and is written intellegently.
-The poster shows gratitude to the source(s).
-The poster is very young.
-The poster is mentally handicapped.
-The poster doesn't know English very well.
This system seems fair to me because it respects both poster and forum. Even if the person doesn't earn a warning they could still receive a PM if a mod deems it necessary. The number of post qualifications could be lowered to three or raised to five as needed and the system would still work almost all of the time.
I take all these into account, so do the other mods. There is nothing to worry about here.
If you break these rules, and its borderline, we will just delete the post.
I have given about 3 warnings out in the past two days, and deleted (what feels like) 20 posts...if thats any indication.
Posts that are made to just thank the source are going to clog up the thread. Its like 'I didn't read the first post so I will just thank the source'.
But we don't want to discourage people from posting. We just want them to think a little more before they post.
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News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
"SPAM warning. Nobody cares what you think, this is a discussion and this doesn't contribute."
etc.
Anyway, I think the other forumgoers and I have made our concerns clear here. Thanks, mods, for paying attention, and I'm eager for the crackdown.
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Xen, the reason "those rules aren't working" is because people aren't following them. I'm asking that people do. Of course not everyone will read this, or heed it. Those people will simply have their posts removed so that the quality members of the Rumor Mill can read, understand, and contribute to rumor discussions. People who cause a lot of work (ie: erasing posts) for the moderators will be warned about it, and eventually suspended/banned if it comes to that.
I just wanted to say something to those who are asking for a poll in Rumor Mill threads, or a list of "who thinks it's real and who thinks it's fake". The fact of the matter is, only a small portion of Rumor Mill threads are "real or fake" discussions. That's not what the Rumor Mill is about, and those who are suggesting this option are probably under the impression the Rumor Mill is a place to post fake cards and then argue about them publicly. That mentality is wrong and will be punished. I can make it so that people are unable to post in the Rumor Mill, without suspending or banning their accounts. Don't be among those who find themselves suddenly unable to participate here.
.
Anyway, it looks mostly like everyone who had something to say about this has, the consensus at the very least being increased (and, perhaps, harsher) warnings for useless/annoying posts. I still like the idea of getting rid of members' post counts, but I've said that already and it is up to the mods to decide. As to making new 'compilation' or summary threads every so often for active discussions... hopefully, increased enforcement will make the threads more managable.
PS: As Urzassedatives suggested, I've used the 'report post' button a few times already. Hope it's helping.
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And yes, reporting posts helps. I eventually get to reading almost every post made in this forum (not necessarily the subforums though) but reports draw our attention to problems even faster.
Removing post count from Salvation isn't a matter for the Rumor Mill. Take this discussion, and other full-site discussions, to the appropriate place.
.
compilation threads: Hmm, so long as the first post keeps updating new info, perhaps including what has been discussed in the thread between updates? And, maybe just editing the title to SAY when it was updated, so people know to read the first post again? That shouldn't be too hard, and would be quite helpful--it doens't occur to many to REread the first post in a thread periodically.
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If you're here only to speak, and not listen to anyone else, maybe you shouldn't be here.
... unless you have RAV cards to tell us.
.
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Please, dear god, don't discourage us lurkers from visiting the board and adding our own opinions. Post count rewards are fine, but post count punishments (ie. for low counts) would probably stop me from being a part of this community. Earlier someone brought up the subject of "Join" date and similar rewards/punishments, but this can also hamper us lurkers because some don't even bother to "memberize," however it is still far more elegent than other options.
The implementation that is probably the easiest to enforce is just to just monitor your own threads, if you feel as though information is pertinent to the threads "owner" PM him/her and ask them to add the info to their first post in the thread. In this manner a summary can be maintained without the original poster being forced to read through countless posts just to find the info. This however may lead to an abuse of the PM system, but seeing as many new users do not read forum rules/guidelines they may very likely not see that it is proper etiquitte to PM the "owner."
Anyways, I am still more happy at this forum than most other forums I have ever been at, mainly because of the lack of rude/inconsiderate posters and the very admirable job of the Mods. The rumor mill functions as well as the users who post in it.
Thanks
Migs
EDIT: Post #69 in the thread, woo!
Not to start an argument...but take a look at places like somethingawful, totalfark, tuckermax, etc. The same type of flaming does take place. In a community thats sole existance is to provide discussion, people will have vastly different opinions which inevitable cause problems.
I will admit, that gaming sites typically do have a higher ratio of this, simply because the dominant market for those games are teens. Misetings is a perfect example. I love the site to death, but its tough to get used to that (and by "get used to" I mean add enough people to your ignore list).
That isn't really the problem here. The problem is everyone feeling they need to chime in on a topic, disregarding the obviousness of their statement (REAL/FAKE!!!) and without reading the previous pages of discussion. This leads to threads of virtual infinate size where the same conversation is repated ad-infitum. Its boring to those of us who do read the entire thread.
I'll repeat it again. Post count isn't an issue here. Anyone who contributes in a legitimate way gets recognized for that contribution. I don't know anyone I recognized solely because of their postcount...maybe I'm in the minority on that one.
I believe that all the legitimate solutions have already been discussed, so I can't offer any more to that..but I just wanted to clarify that the problem is not just caused by "childish" posters. The mods clean those people up quite nicely as it is.
The best suggestion I've seen so far, though, besides we ourselves just making sure not to post stupid spam, is to use that 'report spam' button whenever we see an offending post. The only probelm with this is, while the posts are removed and person probably warned, anyone who looks where that post used to be would have no idea it was there. While this may seem good, we're missing an opportunity--if you just LEAVE the post, and add BIG ANGRY LETTERS about how USELESS and STUPID the post was, you convey the same lesson not just to that poster, but to anyone else who reads it.
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You're complaining about how long it takes you to read threads where there are a bunch of one lined opinions. Does it really take you that long to read a one line post?
Seriously, if there are 10 posts in a row that simply say "fake", how long does it take you to read and scroll past all of them? 10 seconds? How about an entire page of them? 20 seconds if you stop scrolling for each one? I can't imagine your life is too busy to simply scroll down the page to see nothing interesting. CNN.com is my homepage, and I scroll down it to get an overview of the news in about one minute, and I read all the little captions.
THIS is what ACVAR is talking about. The maturity level comes into play by realizing that yes, it's annoying to load a page, scroll down it, and click the next one 10 seconds later. But life is annoying. People cross the street while you have a green light. People talk on their cell phones in movies. Gas prices keep going up. Being mature means ignoring the little things so that you keep your stress level low and concentrate on what's important.
Is a one lined "fake/real" contributing much? No. But by complaining about it, you're taking 10 seconds it took you to scroll through 10 of them and making it 5 minutes by posting a complaint-- adding to your own misery. Just like people yelling "SHHHH" at the guy talking on the cell phone in the movie, you're exacerbating your own problem. Ignore it and you'll be back to a 10 second annoyance in no time.
peace
I think you're blowing this out of proportion. It just doesn't take that much time to scroll through everything. That's not a personal attack on you, it's just my opinion:
If you're missing stuff because you're scrolling down too fast and can't read that fast, scroll a little slower. Instead of blindly scrolling down the page in 10 seconds, take that extra 10 seconds to stop scrolling at each post before you make sure it's nothing that you personally aren't interested in. 20 seconds isn't a lot of time to scroll down a page, and you won't miss any posts while skipping the ones you don't want to read.
The small amount of extra time that you'd spend being a tiny bit more meticulous will solve your problem. This is taught in reading comprehension classes -- it takes you 3 minutes to quickly read a paragraph, but you won't read it carefully, so you'll have to spend another 3 minutes reading it over again. OR, you could read the paragraph in 4 minutes, get it all, and have read it more effectively 2 minutes faster.
As for the slow loading, I'm sorry you have a 56k modem, but there is another option. I realize broadband is still a "luxury", but it is out there and people do pay extra money for it. People who do pay that extra money shouldn't be forced not to post so that people who don't have it don't have to read posts they personally don't feel are interesting.
I'm not justifying one word posts, but someone out there may like reading all those concise opinions.
peace
You either
-Have never had dial-up and have no idea what you're talking about and are very ignorant.
-Maybe once had it but forgot what it was like and still don't know what you're talking about.
-Have dial-up and are just arguing for the hell of it to be annoying.
This post, and the rebuttal post, are both flames.
Flame warning.
We are trying to have a civil discussion here.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Not to sound snippy, but it isn't a comprehension or retention issue at all. If I am reading through a thread, take the recent Wine poster for example, and see a discussion on page 3 about "The corner of the Hyppie isnt on straight". When I see that exact same discussion on page 9 started by someone who hasn't read through the thread, your darn right I'm only going to skim it. Then what happens when someone, in the middle of that repeat conversation posts (who has read the thread) and posts something valuable and informative. It happens ALL THE TIME. Valid discussion topics get lost in the repeats. One word "fake/real" posts aren't discussion at all: they are a poll. This isn't a "poll board" it is a "discussion board".
Are personal insults really necessary? I didn't have a single bad thing to say about you, nor anyone else in my post. Please stop taking opinions and suggestions that are not your own personally. I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else, but trying to help someone who was having trouble finding the "good stuff".
These are the kinds of posts you yourself are arguing about stopping:
Not only doesn't your post make much sense, but it's not in complete sentences and doesn't back up whatever point it was you were trying to make. Moreover, it's blatantly insulting, and it's only intention is to try and hurt my feelings. (which it didn't)
Your rallying for reform means nothing if you yourself are contributing to the problem.
My comments about 56k:
Metaphor: a friend has $6 to buy an ice cream cone, and you only have $4. Would it be fair to demand your friend only buy a $4 cone because you can't buy a more expensive one?
To demand that people who pay for the more expensive broadband not post because you don't want to load it is selfish. Your decision not to pay for a faster connection is a decision that you have to live with. We pay more so that we can load faster and post more.
Tidwell, if you're missing posts because they get lost in the "mess" of 1 line posts, my suggestion was to scroll through them slower. You're scrolling through them quickly anyway (which is the problem), why not take the extra 10 seconds to do it a little slower and more methodically to make sure you don't miss anything. 10 seconds isn't a time killer, and you'll read the insightful information instead of missing it (reading comprehension).
peace
Responding to a flame. Is. A. Flame.
Flame Warning.
You are flaming him right back.
This thread is for civil discussion.
Sorry but this one is really out there. If you really wanted to accomidate them then you would not have that banner at the end of your post and neither would any other poster. This is definatly a modern high bandwidth site.
I, having 56k dial-up myself, can load pages like these rather quickly. Banners don't take up that much space. Avvys are in gif format, about 20-35kb, so they load in a few seconds.
Banners are in jpeg format, and are about 70k. (I don't make avvys or banners so these figures are guesses) They may take a little longer to load, but really not more than about 6 seconds.
I just loaded this page, and it took about 7 seconds or so.
Now if stuff was in bmp, that's a different story.
S_C
Those who cause real problems are in the extreme minority and the majority should not be at fault for this. Only real flames, not challenges of debating nature, should be warned. For spam, it gets a bit more complicated. You can't expect every post to be perfect in a forum this large, so why try and intimidate the masses. I'm sure it would only take a minor adjustment to the site to make thread highlights/indexes/summaries work for those who don't want to dredge through every post. Also, like I mentioned above posts need to be taken in a case by case basis. Spam needs to be more closely monitored for intent, not violation.
Here is my system for judging if something is spam or not in the Rumor Mill. If something appears to be spam the poster may still have good intentions and should not be immediatly considered for punishment if four or more of the following apply:
-The poster is new.
-The ideas in the post are old but their wording is new. Something previously posted may have been lost on the reader's understanding by the way it was worded.
-There is no unrelated subject material.
-The poster explicitly states that they didn't have enough time to read through the thread and apologised for it.
-The poster wants to discuss two or more previously stated things/ideas to show a link between them.
-The poster shows an effort to try and contribute something useful.
-The post is more than 75 words in length and is written intellegently.
-The poster shows gratitude to the source(s).
-The poster is very young.
-The poster is mentally handicapped.
-The poster doesn't know English very well.
This system seems fair to me because it respects both poster and forum. Even if the person doesn't earn a warning they could still receive a PM if a mod deems it necessary. The number of post qualifications could be lowered to three or raised to five as needed and the system would still work almost all of the time.
I take all these into account, so do the other mods. There is nothing to worry about here.
If you break these rules, and its borderline, we will just delete the post.
I have given about 3 warnings out in the past two days, and deleted (what feels like) 20 posts...if thats any indication.
Posts that are made to just thank the source are going to clog up the thread. Its like 'I didn't read the first post so I will just thank the source'.
But we don't want to discourage people from posting. We just want them to think a little more before they post.
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