Am i the only who is surprised that WOTC didn't drag out the name to something like:
"Michiko Konda, Seeker of Truths" or "Michiko Konda, Seeker of the Truths"?
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If the green epic tutors creatures into play, TnN isn't dead yet, just weaker...
Michiko is way worse than people are giving her credit for. First of all she costs 4 mana and only has two toughness, so shock/almost any other burn spell>Michiko.
That epic spell is not great either, playable in type 1 and 1.5 where there is enough mana accel to be able to play it before dying. I think I still prefer replenish to cheat my broken enchantments into play.
MY GUESES ON THE OTHER EPIC CARDS(I HAVE NOT CHECKED ANY OF THESE AGAINST THE ORB)
Green-Creature tutor or super huge lifegain(10-20 life per turn)
Blue-super card draw(ancestral recall every turn) or super bounce
Red-damage(5-10 every turn) or shaterstorm every turn
Black-living death effect or mass -X/-X abilitie(sickening shoal every turn)
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
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I wouldn't exactly call Tooth and Nail an "instant" win. The win certainly comes quickly, but it's most definately not "instant". There are at least 10 ways to prevent a TaN deck from winning once it's TaN resolves (not considering the ways to prevent it from resolving). Is TaN even considered a top tier deck anymore?
Just because tournament players "scoop" when a TaN resolves doesn't make it an "instant" win. Accordingly, there are more people who play this game outside of the DCI tournament setting than there are who play in the sanctioned tournaments. You all sit here and judge the cards based on whether a deck built around them is going to win on the third turn, when these sets aren't made for that purpose.
No card by itself can "win" the game unless it's a win condition card (ie: you win the game if x). They all need help. Darksteel Collusus, Platinum Angel, Kiki-Jiki, etc were what made TaN a good deck. TaN isn't that great a spell if you're using it to port in 2 Llanowar Elves.
I think we have to see what they offer us in the rest of the set to see if these guys will be any good. They seem to like helping out small themes like these with other small themes -- CHANNEL. Also, they seem to be starting to push enchantments back into play with the likes of Tallowisp, the hondens, etc. I think we'll get all the tools we need to make these epics playable.
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I find the white epic rather lame. Doesn't seem game-winning enough to me at 7 mana AND not being able to play anything else. There are, of course, abilities and the new channel to get around it, but...we'll just see.
Michiko, on the other hand, looks cool. I've been thinking about a white control deck lately, she would help.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
The thing is when you get the White Epic out is basically game over, like I said you can get out Hondens and a Genju of the Realm and just annihilate your opponet. I see it being run effectivly since Heartbeat is now more popular and Sakura and Reach are being run 4 and 4 in every deck.
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xen: The white Honden is on a factor of 2. You'd be gaining 6 life on your third Honden.
Hey, this could be a slightly less colored-mana intensive way to break out the Transcendence/Sulfuric Vortex combo in Casual.
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I'd like to make a casual deck, which uses Vedalken Orrery (and generetes a lot of mana,) so i can play multiple Epic spells before i let them resolve. Or would they be countered after the first one resolves?
They all trigger. I thought of the same thing.
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I actually just began running a g/w control deck, and i was thinking you could run a similar version with enchantments. Rev up the mana accell like i have with sylvan scrying, add Urzatron, and instead of tooth why not set up yourself an epic spell? Put honden into play, in ext. i love the decree interaction. Sneak attack? ehh, MIchiko is vicious though. Although prone to burn, if u make her untargetable via kabuto r greaves, she becomes sooo painful
Enduring Ideal may work out well with Zur's Weirding . With some life-gain enchantments, Zur's Weirding would be a lock, as your opponent would be denied spells as you continue to plop enchantments into play for free. Furthermore, Zur's Weirding cannot be used against you effectively as you cannot cast spells anymore anyway.
A life gain enchantment, like say, the white honden?
I think you're up to something here. Play the Ideal, search for Weirding. Next turn, white honden pops into play. Your opponents will never ever draw any more cards again. Just fetch a red honden next and we're good to go. I'll definitely give it a shot, even if it's been a while since I was a casual player.
A life gain enchantment, like say, the white honden?
I think you're up to something here. Play the Ideal, search for Weirding. Next turn, white honden pops into play. Your opponents will never ever draw any more cards again. Just fetch a red honden next and we're good to go. I'll definitely give it a shot, even if it's been a while since I was a casual player.
I think I wil stick to my type 1 Stasis deck.1st to 5th turn lock>5th to 2000th turn lock...
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
A life gain enchantment, like say, the white honden?
I think you're up to something here. Play the Ideal, search for Weirding. Next turn, white honden pops into play. Your opponents will never ever draw any more cards again. Just fetch a red honden next and we're good to go. I'll definitely give it a shot, even if it's been a while since I was a casual player.
Heh, I've always like Wierding. Actually had a decent deck off it a while ago. May have to try this one, too.
What we're doing here is akin to taking the text of Moby Dick, locating specific words therein, rearranging them to create a passage from Fight Club, and concluding from this evidence that Tyler Durden is based on Ahab.
couldn't you use this as a kill condition for a statis deck? you could continue the lock with fetching another statis once in a while, and the blue decree.
turns 1-5: statis shenanegins
turn 6-15: enduring zur-honden-decree
turn 16: with the last two points of honden damage on the stack, apologize and promise never to bring this deck again.
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Would Penance work well with Enduring Ideal and Genjus? If the land dies, the Genju goes to your hand and if you run out of the ones in your library, you just put them from your hand back, maybe preventing some damage?
For some reason, Genju of the Realm seems like an OK card to fetch with ideals.
Several people are saying this, as well as Enchant Creature cards like Cage. My question is, are these actually tutorable with Enduring Ideal? It says "enchantment". Does that include Enchant Land and Enchant Creature?
Yes they're tutorable. They say "Enchant Creature" but they're still a type of enchantment.
On another note, if I ever see anyone spend seven mana to play Enduring Ideal and search for a Cage of Hands, they will be in a rather large amount of pain.
Yes. However, since you can no longer play spells, I imagine Arrest would be better than Cage.
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Several people are saying this, as well as Enchant Creature cards like Cage. My question is, are these actually tutorable with Enduring Ideal? It says "enchantment". Does that include Enchant Land and Enchant Creature?
Yes. "Enchantment" would encompass both "Enchantment" and "Enchant ~foo", as they both fall into the general "Enchantment" Type. They simply happen to be 2 different "classes" (my word, not WotC's) of Enchantment; that is Global and Local. Unless a card specifically said "Enchant ~foo" (kind of like what Tallowisp's ability is), then it could find either type of Enchantment.
I would just like to comment on a little bit of synergy nobody else seems to have noticed. Enduring Ideals plus Uyo, Silent Prophet. Since Uyo's copies have the epic ability still tacked on, you're going to get an extra enchantment every upkeep for each activation of Uyo. Despite the fact that you need at least nine mana and two non-green cards to get this to work, I rather think it breaks the card in half quite neatly. Cast it, copy it 4 times, and you get access to all 5 Hondens for 13UU. That really isn't half bad, especially since you can do it again if need be, next turn, and your opponent can't do a thing about it.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Would Penance work well with Enduring Ideal and Genjus? If the land dies, the Genju goes to your hand and if you run out of the ones in your library, you just put them from your hand back, maybe preventing some damage?
In extended, you could just go for the PandeBurst combo and win.
I don't think it's possible for this deck to be competitive. It is incredibly slow and will likely roll over to ponza and MUC.
How do you figure that? You can bring in Boseiju for MUC without losing much tempo, and there's plenty of white enchantments that can shut down Ponza. Unlike Tooth, EI doesn't roll over so easily to LD.
Or way better than Cage or Arrest is Confiscate. You first tutor Zur's Weirding, take damage, tutor W Honden, then you tutor answers for the threads on the Board (that means Confiscate, Psychic Overload, etc.), and then you search either more Hondens to win or a Genju for smashing the opponent.
Even though I don't think it'll be really good, it'll be at least an nice Rogue Deck - At least (I don't say it wont be really good, but I doubt it).
I'm awaiting some other intresting Enchantments in Saviors
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Sometimes those with the most sin cast the first stones.
After a couple reaches or ST Elders, Time of Needs, etc. in U/G block, say you can get Uyo on turn four. That is totally reasonable. By turn 6, you could very probably cast Enduring Ideals and copy it twice. Even if a copy gets countered (likely), Uyo always gets some of the copies through, and then, your opponent can't do a thing about any of it. Counters become irrelevant, creature removal is irrelevant for the most part, since Uyo's only relevance by then is copying your opponent's spells. For the cost of this one spell, a huge portion of lots of decks becomes completely obsolete. Even enchantment removal becomes a temporary solution, at best, since YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO RUN OUT OF GAS with this thing. It hardly matters what enchantments you run to go with it. Get out 3 Ghostly prisons in one turn? 3 Hondens? 3 Night of Souls Betrayal (since they come out on different triggers, you would lose two of them, but you could still kill all 2 toughness creatures)? Worship plus Saproling Cluster plus Pandemonium? I mean seriously, how many cards can you think of that say "I win" in so many different possible ways when it resolves? Or you could just run 4 Boseiju in the deck. I hardly think you need to worry too much about life loss if you get this thing off fast enough.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
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"Michiko Konda, Seeker of Truths" or "Michiko Konda, Seeker of the Truths"?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Michiko is way worse than people are giving her credit for. First of all she costs 4 mana and only has two toughness, so shock/almost any other burn spell>Michiko.
That epic spell is not great either, playable in type 1 and 1.5 where there is enough mana accel to be able to play it before dying. I think I still prefer replenish to cheat my broken enchantments into play.
MY GUESES ON THE OTHER EPIC CARDS(I HAVE NOT CHECKED ANY OF THESE AGAINST THE ORB)
Green-Creature tutor or super huge lifegain(10-20 life per turn)
Blue-super card draw(ancestral recall every turn) or super bounce
Red-damage(5-10 every turn) or shaterstorm every turn
Black-living death effect or mass -X/-X abilitie(sickening shoal every turn)
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Just because tournament players "scoop" when a TaN resolves doesn't make it an "instant" win. Accordingly, there are more people who play this game outside of the DCI tournament setting than there are who play in the sanctioned tournaments. You all sit here and judge the cards based on whether a deck built around them is going to win on the third turn, when these sets aren't made for that purpose.
No card by itself can "win" the game unless it's a win condition card (ie: you win the game if x). They all need help. Darksteel Collusus, Platinum Angel, Kiki-Jiki, etc were what made TaN a good deck. TaN isn't that great a spell if you're using it to port in 2 Llanowar Elves.
I think we have to see what they offer us in the rest of the set to see if these guys will be any good. They seem to like helping out small themes like these with other small themes -- CHANNEL. Also, they seem to be starting to push enchantments back into play with the likes of Tallowisp, the hondens, etc. I think we'll get all the tools we need to make these epics playable.
Michiko, on the other hand, looks cool. I've been thinking about a white control deck lately, she would help.
Guildmaster Jarad
Hey, this could be a slightly less colored-mana intensive way to break out the Transcendence/Sulfuric Vortex combo in Casual.
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Random quote of the last time I updated my sig:
"...FOMG THE SCROLL LOCK KEY DOES SOMETHING "
They all trigger. I thought of the same thing.
A life gain enchantment, like say, the white honden?
I think you're up to something here. Play the Ideal, search for Weirding. Next turn, white honden pops into play. Your opponents will never ever draw any more cards again. Just fetch a red honden next and we're good to go. I'll definitely give it a shot, even if it's been a while since I was a casual player.
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"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
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Guildmaster Jarad
turns 1-5: statis shenanegins
turn 6-15: enduring zur-honden-decree
turn 16: with the last two points of honden damage on the stack, apologize and promise never to bring this deck again.
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Several people are saying this, as well as Enchant Creature cards like Cage. My question is, are these actually tutorable with Enduring Ideal? It says "enchantment". Does that include Enchant Land and Enchant Creature?
On another note, if I ever see anyone spend seven mana to play Enduring Ideal and search for a Cage of Hands, they will be in a rather large amount of pain.
(Also known as Xenphire)
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Random quote of the last time I updated my sig:
"...FOMG THE SCROLL LOCK KEY DOES SOMETHING "
Yes. "Enchantment" would encompass both "Enchantment" and "Enchant ~foo", as they both fall into the general "Enchantment" Type. They simply happen to be 2 different "classes" (my word, not WotC's) of Enchantment; that is Global and Local. Unless a card specifically said "Enchant ~foo" (kind of like what Tallowisp's ability is), then it could find either type of Enchantment.
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In extended, you could just go for the PandeBurst combo and win.
I don't think it's possible for this deck to be competitive. It is incredibly slow and will likely roll over to ponza and MUC.
How do you figure that? You can bring in Boseiju for MUC without losing much tempo, and there's plenty of white enchantments that can shut down Ponza. Unlike Tooth, EI doesn't roll over so easily to LD.
Even though I don't think it'll be really good, it'll be at least an nice Rogue Deck - At least (I don't say it wont be really good, but I doubt it).
I'm awaiting some other intresting Enchantments in Saviors
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