i'd play him in t2...
maybe replacing chittering rats...
though the rats' ability is a one-time, guaranteed (assuming it resolves) one, whereas toshi's is conditional.
but i think the potential power toshi has surely outweighs his vulnerabilities.
kiki-jiki is a 2/2 and he sees play, despite all the removal spells listed in this thread...
The problem with Wizards is they've been printing cool effects on vulnerable cards lately.
I hate to disagree (actually, I guess I don't - it's more fun ;)), but I actually like the increased vulnerability on most of the really cool cards. There isn't much worse than an insane ability on something really difficult to get rid of. My opinion on the matter - if you want access to the awesome ability, you also better be willing to invest the effort to protect it because it's kinda fragile.
On critters, two toughness is pretty much the sweet spot. Shock and Glacial Ray are readilly available, and they do a good job of instant removal for that. Kodama's Might allows a 1/1 to handle it's business against such a foe. White doesn't have a horrible time buffing its weenies to that range, either.
What bothers me, though, is when they do things that are horribly out of flavor in order to hit that sweet spot. Whenever I see a white or green creature with 3/2 or 4/2, I just wanna scream (unless the flavor justifies it).
I know this should be appended to my last post, but I though this was a significiant enough thought to be entirely separate:
More than likely, Toshi is limited to instants because of the horrible synergy he'd have otherwise with the Helix. Can you imagine if you could flashback a sorcery that's imprinted on the helix? That's just SICK! You're basically getting four cards for double the casting cost of one!
Toshiro's ability is limited to instants because it otherwise could be used to play sorceries/creatures/what have you at instant speed. As noted, that ability is currently confined to a fragile metallic shell.
Is that me or wizards guy are trying to fit good old effects on any kind of creature (see Dusk Drinker for example) ? Maybe we will see more of this kind of creature (1 per color ?)
Wizards is definitely in a trend of printing creatures with highly powerful "spell-like" abilities. A lot of them are playable (or likely to be) in constructed.
Leonin Abunas
Platinum Angel
Mephidross Vampire
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror-Breaker
Sakura-Tribe Elder (not "highly powerful" so much as highly efficient)
Disciple of the @$#! Vault (this should be an enchantment that costs like 4)
Kodama of the South Tree
Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
Rootrunner
Only two of these cards are particularly fragile: Kiki-Jiki is a very important card anyway because he is amazingly powerful and doesn't need to sit on the board for a turn before he does something. Ditto Disciple of the Vault. Sakura-Tribe Elder doesn't get hit with removal; if he did, he'd still Rampant Growth anyway.
The Abunas saw play in a surprisingly large variety of Block decks, many rogue, just because of his exceptionally high toughness.
Toshi is wimpy, indeed. But I don't think it's fair to classify a card as no good just because it's fragile. If someone 1-for-1s it with a removal spell, it's not like you've lost the game. Still, Toshi is a rare sort; a 3-drop that doesn't like to hit the board on turn 3. His chance of using his ability is much higher at some later point. I'm honestly not sure he'll see play due to this "drawback." He's strong against Ravager if he's in there when you untap, but on turn 3 one might hope for a better drop that can stop more damage from hitting your face. Chittering Rats, for example, give 2-for-1 as soon as they come into play; they block and die, you've still gained something. And they're solid against control decks. Toshi has issues against control decks.
He would also be cool with any of the Pulses. If they don't get returned to your hand, you can at least get it back once with him. This might not be that good of an idead, I don't know.
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Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
I like Toshi, and he will at least see draft sealed and casual play... :/ (he's quite good if you put him into a B/U or B/R deck... I wish he had Bushido 2 at least... :/ (the mighty killer can be taken out by a Blademaster before he even draws his blade...)
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
i think toshi should have had bushido 2 there are so many cards that can actually take him out as he is really easily, and whis ability isnt that game breaking right now
Here's my two cents, which likely won't make much sense.
In T2, Ravager will pwn the majority of the time, but with some good early board removal, even if it's just a discard on turn 1-2 (Shattered Dreams is semi-svg-tech).
The NoSB + Toshi + Orchard combo is probally the best route, backed up with a deck somewhat like the Dampen Thought decks. Entwineing DT onto each Arcane instant TWICE is not something to scoff about, even with 60 card decks. If you get the Night out soon enough, you don't have to worry about Disciple, and I'm sure you'll have a Consuming Vortex or two for the Ravagers and Enforcers, in fact, just having one means you have two with Toshi. Perhaps even R/B/U with both Glacial Ray AND Dampen Thought might be a good route, but are you spreading too thin?
I do kind of wonder if it'd be a bad idea to splash in one plains and two copies of Eiganjo Castle just to keep him propped up a little longer.
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Why did I ever think a signature in comic sans was a good idea?
Type 2 MBC will love this. Rend Flesh your guy, Echoing Decay another, play Rend from Grave, play Decay from grave, play instant. Plus vs. Ravager each sac is a removal spell for you. Too bad he's not a 2/3 so he survives E-Bolt. And if he could replay sorceries......
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Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone
To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.
This will be a new addition to my B/U mesmeric orb deck.
Opponent: creature
Me: vendetta, brain freeze for 9
Opponent:
Don't Forget to include Endless Whisper to ensure your opponent has a steady stream of dying creatures to power your instants.
And for those of you complaing about the fragility of Toshiro - Endless Whisper will eventually return him to your side of the table. Chances are, your deck will include more instant removal than your opponent's deck.
Upon seeing the card and knowing that black is loaded with instants... especially creature-killing instants... and that the card doesn't cost 5 or 850, like most other "OMG- THE BROEK!1" cards as of late, I pose the question: Is black a tier-1 level color yet?
Let's examine the following:
In B/R we have: Toshiro, weenie rats, tons of instant burn and kill spells, artifact destruction, Crunk. I'd say 'just toss him in some preexisting deck', but that doesn't work out very well (BG only nets you Decay and Oxidize... hold onto your shorts!). W/ Red, we have cheap burn mixed with cheap weeinie beaters and efficient removal spells. I'm not one to jump about screaming 'omg, my pants are on fire because this card is so hot', but I must certainly say that this may be cutting close.
Well boys and girls, looks like we've found at least one card to try to break from this set. There has to be some way to abuse this. I just can't figure it out yet...
if you are ever being chased by a police dog, try not to run through a tunnel, then over a little see-saw, then jump through a ring of fire. theyre trained for that
Two words. Insanely expensive. Unless you can find a way to reduce those costs, I don't think searing wind is a good partner for Toshi. Since you're more than not going to be playing multiple instants per turn (one to kill, one being flashed back), they'd probably need to be fairly efficient or just cheap.
he works well with shoals, since u can discard an instant to the shoal, and then recur it later. yah, it would be a 1-3 casting cost spell, but definatley useful ealry on, when u dont want to discard, say a myojin to kill a disciple or samurai. instead you can dicard a terror, or glacial ray, and then use it next turn. it at least makes up a bit for the discard of the shoals.
With the red shoal, Toshi, magma jet, barter in blood, etc. I can really see BR control deck on the horizon. Definately if we get some really good red/black instant in BoK.
he works well with shoals, since u can discard an instant to the shoal, and then recur it later. yah, it would be a 1-3 casting cost spell, but definatley useful ealry on, when u dont want to discard, say a myojin to kill a disciple or samurai. instead you can dicard a terror, or glacial ray, and then use it next turn. it at least makes up a bit for the discard of the shoals.
You have to rfg the card you pitch to a shoal. It doesn't go to the graveyard so you wouldn't be able to use the spell you pitched to the Shoal with Toshiro.
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Mr Blonde:symb: Resident SwampMage:symb:
"Are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite?"
You have a mountain, a swamp and a forbidden orchird in play, and a glacial ray in your graveyard. Play Toshi, giving your oponent a 1/1 spirit.
Next turn: Play a mountain. Play the glacial ray (making sure to cast it with the forbidden orchird), and kill the 1/1 created last turn. Return the other glacial ray to your hand, and then deal two damage to a creature of player. It's basically an automatic 2 damage per turn starting on turn four.
You have a mountain, a swamp and a forbidden orchird in play, and a glacial ray in your graveyard. Play Toshi, giving your oponent a 1/1 spirit.
Next turn: Play a mountain. Play the glacial ray (making sure to cast it with the forbidden orchird), and kill the 1/1 created last turn. Return the other glacial ray to your hand, and then deal two damage to a creature of player. It's basically an automatic 2 damage per turn starting on turn four.
WOW!
Oh, wait, I can Magmajet each turn starting turn 3 (2 with chrome mox) thanks to sceptor. Next?
You do realize that toshi does not return cards to your hand right? He just lets you use instants twice, once from hand, once from graveyard, sorry to burst your buble though.
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Formerly corn hulio.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
I don't like hom very much, I expected something else from him, even if it was less playable then, either way it's a fun card to tinker its abuse, but the creature goes to graveyard kinda limits it from doing too much.
maybe replacing chittering rats...
though the rats' ability is a one-time, guaranteed (assuming it resolves) one, whereas toshi's is conditional.
but i think the potential power toshi has surely outweighs his vulnerabilities.
kiki-jiki is a 2/2 and he sees play, despite all the removal spells listed in this thread...
-aNia_
-sig by alex, avatar by aNia_
I hate to disagree (actually, I guess I don't - it's more fun ;)), but I actually like the increased vulnerability on most of the really cool cards. There isn't much worse than an insane ability on something really difficult to get rid of. My opinion on the matter - if you want access to the awesome ability, you also better be willing to invest the effort to protect it because it's kinda fragile.
On critters, two toughness is pretty much the sweet spot. Shock and Glacial Ray are readilly available, and they do a good job of instant removal for that. Kodama's Might allows a 1/1 to handle it's business against such a foe. White doesn't have a horrible time buffing its weenies to that range, either.
What bothers me, though, is when they do things that are horribly out of flavor in order to hit that sweet spot. Whenever I see a white or green creature with 3/2 or 4/2, I just wanna scream (unless the flavor justifies it).
More than likely, Toshi is limited to instants because of the horrible synergy he'd have otherwise with the Helix. Can you imagine if you could flashback a sorcery that's imprinted on the helix? That's just SICK! You're basically getting four cards for double the casting cost of one!
t~
Wizards is definitely in a trend of printing creatures with highly powerful "spell-like" abilities. A lot of them are playable (or likely to be) in constructed.
Leonin Abunas
Platinum Angel
Mephidross Vampire
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror-Breaker
Sakura-Tribe Elder (not "highly powerful" so much as highly efficient)
Disciple of the @$#! Vault (this should be an enchantment that costs like 4)
Kodama of the South Tree
Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
Rootrunner
Only two of these cards are particularly fragile: Kiki-Jiki is a very important card anyway because he is amazingly powerful and doesn't need to sit on the board for a turn before he does something. Ditto Disciple of the Vault. Sakura-Tribe Elder doesn't get hit with removal; if he did, he'd still Rampant Growth anyway.
The Abunas saw play in a surprisingly large variety of Block decks, many rogue, just because of his exceptionally high toughness.
Toshi is wimpy, indeed. But I don't think it's fair to classify a card as no good just because it's fragile. If someone 1-for-1s it with a removal spell, it's not like you've lost the game. Still, Toshi is a rare sort; a 3-drop that doesn't like to hit the board on turn 3. His chance of using his ability is much higher at some later point. I'm honestly not sure he'll see play due to this "drawback." He's strong against Ravager if he's in there when you untap, but on turn 3 one might hope for a better drop that can stop more damage from hitting your face. Chittering Rats, for example, give 2-for-1 as soon as they come into play; they block and die, you've still gained something. And they're solid against control decks. Toshi has issues against control decks.
I love this type of ability.
I don't see it being a breakable card though.
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Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
In T2, Ravager will pwn the majority of the time, but with some good early board removal, even if it's just a discard on turn 1-2 (Shattered Dreams is semi-svg-tech).
The NoSB + Toshi + Orchard combo is probally the best route, backed up with a deck somewhat like the Dampen Thought decks. Entwineing DT onto each Arcane instant TWICE is not something to scoff about, even with 60 card decks. If you get the Night out soon enough, you don't have to worry about Disciple, and I'm sure you'll have a Consuming Vortex or two for the Ravagers and Enforcers, in fact, just having one means you have two with Toshi. Perhaps even R/B/U with both Glacial Ray AND Dampen Thought might be a good route, but are you spreading too thin?
I do kind of wonder if it'd be a bad idea to splash in one plains and two copies of Eiganjo Castle just to keep him propped up a little longer.
Don't Forget to include Endless Whisper to ensure your opponent has a steady stream of dying creatures to power your instants.
And for those of you complaing about the fragility of Toshiro - Endless Whisper will eventually return him to your side of the table. Chances are, your deck will include more instant removal than your opponent's deck.
Let's examine the following:
In B/R we have: Toshiro, weenie rats, tons of instant burn and kill spells, artifact destruction, Crunk. I'd say 'just toss him in some preexisting deck', but that doesn't work out very well (BG only nets you Decay and Oxidize... hold onto your shorts!). W/ Red, we have cheap burn mixed with cheap weeinie beaters and efficient removal spells. I'm not one to jump about screaming 'omg, my pants are on fire because this card is so hot', but I must certainly say that this may be cutting close.
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just checking...
-Cannibal-
two words. searing wind
just do the land pinging with kamahl, fist of krosa and sharpshooter
and omg this with storm....rules
Two words. Insanely expensive. Unless you can find a way to reduce those costs, I don't think searing wind is a good partner for Toshi. Since you're more than not going to be playing multiple instants per turn (one to kill, one being flashed back), they'd probably need to be fairly efficient or just cheap.
ANY instant... not exactly supporting the arcane theme.
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MEGAMATT
<3 Toshi!
You have to rfg the card you pitch to a shoal. It doesn't go to the graveyard so you wouldn't be able to use the spell you pitched to the Shoal with Toshiro.
You have a mountain, a swamp and a forbidden orchird in play, and a glacial ray in your graveyard. Play Toshi, giving your oponent a 1/1 spirit.
Next turn: Play a mountain. Play the glacial ray (making sure to cast it with the forbidden orchird), and kill the 1/1 created last turn. Return the other glacial ray to your hand, and then deal two damage to a creature of player. It's basically an automatic 2 damage per turn starting on turn four.
WOW!
Oh, wait, I can Magmajet each turn starting turn 3 (2 with chrome mox) thanks to sceptor. Next?
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!