I am not sure what you are talking about with "the green talisment" but if you are referrign to the Mediallions, Glacial Ray is an additional cost and therefore not covered by the Medallions because splicing is not part of the mana cost of the spell (the little numbers in the upper right hand corner of a card).
Quote from Saturday School »
If you have a Ruby Medallion in play, and splice a Glacial Ray onto a Glacial Ray, you get the mana cost, add any additional costs (ie: the splice), and then subtract any reductions (Ruby Medallion). Because reductions apply to the “costs… to play”, you can reduce any applicable portion of a spell's total costs. So having two Ruby Medallions in play would result in this: Glacial Ray + splice – Ruby – Ruby = .
The Medallions will reduce the splice costs. As will Long Forgotten Gohei.
Quote from Champions FAQ »
Long-Forgotten Gohei
{3}
Artifact
Arcane spells you play cost {1} less to play.
Spirits you control get +1/+1.
* The cost reduction applies to the total cost of the Arcane spell, including any additional costs from cards spliced onto it. However, the cost reduction applies only once to each Arcane spell. For example, if you play an Arcane spell with mana cost {R} and splice onto it a card whose splice cost is {1}{U}, then the spell costs {U}{R} to play. If you play an Arcane spell with mana cost {4}{U} and splice onto it a card whose splice cost is {1}{R}, the spell costs {4}{U}{R} to play.
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Quote from pokerbob1 »
maybe everyone should sig the following:
If you think you found a way to play evermind, you are wrong.
Blazing Shoal ain't half bad (it can be used in any deck how its written), giving enrage is bretty good if you ask me, now what would the rest of the cycle look like:
green (my guess would be pumpage, but since red got some, it's hard to say, putting a creature to play seems a strong and risky, but a possibility, sorcery speed pumping could be too)
white (sadly, it might be life gain or damage prevention, I'm personally hoping for something else, )
black (discard would be utterly powerful this way, could be -x/-x)
To put it all together: Medallion lowers total cost (after including alternate/additional costs), alternate cost replaces ONLY mana cost, Trinisphere specifically works AFTER cost reducers.
However, Medallion won't reduce mana cost and splice cost separately. It only reduces the total cost, and only once.
Why are we arguing over the red shoal, i dont think it will make that big of a splash, as any deck that would like to have a free effect would have no cards in it that are more than 4 mana, which might not even be available. If a sligh deck does become possible it would need at least 6 costing cards to make this work.
I think it is the white card that will be the best of this group, now whether or not it will have a deck based around it i dont no, but i think it is the best card in the group.
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Formerly corn hulio.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
Okay, so, The Red Shoal is XRR instant... so that means it'd fit on Isochron Scepter. Can you still remove the card to get its effect? You should be able to, right?
The Scepter is paying the mana cost, meaning you can't pay an alternate cost, I think. But don't quote me on that.
Trinisphere sets all Affinity creatures to at least 3 mana.
Hokori + Ghostly Prison = yummy. Also, remember that most good WW decks run 3-4 Chrome Moxes. That could result in a HUGE mana advantage by dropping 2 moxes. And CHK-Block WW anyone? Pale Curtain, Isamaru, Hokori, Prison, Reciprocate, Lantern Kami, and who knows what else will be coming?
In the inquest magazine Henry Stern said "The white and the black ones will see big-time constucted play". He also said that the red one "is actually the least of the cycle's lunacy".
I hope that the one is loss life draw cards equal to or equal to the cc of the card you discard. It would be like Skeletal Scrying. Discard would be broken. It would be to much like Mind Twist and we all know its power.
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Mr Blonde:symb: Resident SwampMage:symb:
"Are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite?"
Assuming Scrye does a bit better job with their predictions this time around, as opposed to times before, both Black and White could be any number of highly powered effects. Black could be Corrupt, Skeletal Scrying, Mutilate, and Mind Sludge. All powerful typical Black effects but all would be extremely overpowered. White has Armageddon, Wrath of God, Decree of Justice (my bet), and probably somethin else Im missing that are all typical White effects. I dont really have any idea of any White or Black style things that wouldnt be broken and a half
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Burning through the night Two hundred degrees Thats why they call me "Mr Fahrenheit"
To be specific, whenever a number in Magic would be altered in several different ways, the changes are applied in the following order:
Additions
Subtractions
Effects that set the number to a fixed quantity
1. Thanks.
2. So, if I have the shoal, announce it, splice a glaical ray on (additions), then remove the card, it costs 0 even after the splice, RIGHT? Thanks; I just need confirmation on this, because it's the ultimate splice enabler; you can splice colored cards you can't otherwise play, splice expensive stuff like Through the breach (6cc; the perfect number to ditch to the X, AND can drop a darksteel collosus into play with haste (after you've given another creature +X,+0).
3. If this is how it works, Big Red will rule T2, and block?
That is way too overpowered and Wizards knows it. I really dont think that it works like that. If it does, Im sorry I was wrong, good job for pointing it out, but that just seems way too good. As in... turn 1 1/1, turn 2, Pump it 7, drop a Kumano from your hand into play, ping for 2, bounce their kid, destroy their artifact land. Is it just me or does it seem doubtful Wizards would allow that to happen.
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Burning through the night Two hundred degrees Thats why they call me "Mr Fahrenheit"
Assuming Scrye does a bit better job with their predictions this time around, as opposed to times before, both Black and White could be any number of highly powered effects. Black could be Corrupt, Skeletal Scrying, Mutilate, and Mind Sludge. All powerful typical Black effects but all would be extremely overpowered. White has Armageddon, Wrath of God, Decree of Justice (my bet), and probably somethin else Im missing that are all typical White effects. I dont really have any idea of any White or Black style things that wouldnt be broken and a half
Black possibilities:
Discard? No. Discard 7 cards for 2 cards 1st turn? Uh... no.
Drain Life? Yep.
Exume/Reanimate? As we have two such cards in the set, the common being what this (rare) would be, no. Although it'd be very interesting, though it'd probably have the same blue "exactly X" thing the blue one does.
Necropotence? Let's see... change 2 cards into 6, repeat? No.
White:
Gain life? Underpowered.
Prevent Damage? See above.
gain life + prevent damage? Possible...
+X,+X to blocker? Maybe...
X +1,+1 counters for damage prevented? possible
X +1,+1 counters for target blocker? uh, a little too powerful, no? T2, block, have a 6/6 that flips to form the most horrible guy w/ doublestrike!
Regenerate X creatures? unlikely...
That is way too overpowered and Wizards knows it. I really dont think that it works like that. If it does, Im sorry I was wrong, good job for pointing it out, but that just seems way too good. As in... turn 1 1/1, turn 2, Pump it 7, drop a Kumano from your hand into play, ping for 2, bounce their kid, destroy their artifact land. Is it just me or does it seem doubtful Wizards would allow that to happen.
It doesn't work like that because the splice cost is always paid in addition to the normal cost of the spell.
Got the answer to the question courtesy of the Comprehensive Rulebook. And I am right.
409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text, and some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all cost increases and minus all cost reductions. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
So Disrupting Shoal is paid for with an alternative cost, removing a red card from your hand. The total cost is equivalent to this alternative cost PLUS ADDITIONAL COSTS (splicing). Disrupting Shoal is not a cost reductions, it is an alternate cost method, and therefore does NOT affect spliced spells. And just for kicks
502.40a Splice is a static ability that functions while a card is in your hand. "Splice onto [type or subtype] [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand as you play a [type or subtype] spell. If you do, copy this card's text box onto that spell and pay [cost] as an additional cost to play that spell." Paying a card's splice cost follows the rules for paying additional costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f-h.
And about the Shoals... I did say "overpowered" for a reason. I was implying I couldnt comprehend a Black card theyd allow to be played with an alternate cost, Corrupt seems the most likely, but even that is extremely powerful, Uber-Fireblast anyone?
I still stand by the White Shoal being a Decree, as broken as that is, its about the same power level as the black Corrupt one.
EDIT: Yes Vortex, I realize that, I was pointing out to Twist that its ridiculously overpowered and not feasible. Try to read more than just one post before jumping in, you would have seen I was proving that splice doesnt work like the example I gave.
Black possibilities:
Discard? No. Discard 7 cards for 2 cards 1st turn? Uh... no.
Drain Life? Yep.
Exume/Reanimate? As we have two such cards in the set, the common being what this (rare) would be, no. Although it'd be very interesting, though it'd probably have the same blue "exactly X" thing the blue one does.
Necropotence? Let's see... change 2 cards into 6, repeat? No.
I think that the card draw would be balanced if the life loss is attached to the card. They gave you Promise of Power and like I said before Skeletal Scying . The card would balance itself out with the life loss and maybe being a sorcery.
I also like your thought on a Mutilate version. That would be very cool
@Magicdeckvortex I enjoy your site very much. Especially the art page and the visual spoilers.
...@Magicdeckvortex I enjoy your site very much. Especially the art page and the visual spoilers.
Thank you very much.
I have been meaning to update the art page for a while... lord known I have plenty of art images. It seems more than half of my visitors of my visitors enjoy the visual spoilers over the deck database. Mind you the DDB (deck database) is the reason the site really exists.
I love Fantasy art so being able to link to so many of the artists sites is much appreciated. Do you know if Kev Walker has a website? I can't seem to find 1.
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Mr Blonde:symb: Resident SwampMage:symb:
"Are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite?"
I think that the card draw would be balanced if the life loss is attached to the card. They gave you Promise of Power and like I said before Skeletal Scying . The card would balance itself out with the life loss and maybe being a sorcery.
I also like your thought on a Mutilate version. That would be very cool
@Magicdeckvortex I enjoy your site very much. Especially the art page and the visual spoilers.
Let's see... Skeletal Scrying is a DRAW ENGINE in type 1. Something tells me it's overpowered.
A Mutilate version would be too powerful. (uh... turn 2, all creatures get -6, -6? No.)
A necropetence version... well, let's put it this way... I'd be VERY tempted to start running it and the black Myojin in Affinity. I mulligan into having the combo, (say 3 cards left), then have 1 card left and draw how many cards? Then probably repeat the process? Then sacrifice everything to my ravager with my two disciples in play... yeah. Way to go.
I love Fantasy art so being able to link to so many of the artists sites is much appreciated. Do you know if Kev Walker has a website? I can't seem to find 1.
I haven't been able to find one yet. Nor do I think I will.
Have there been any scans of the SCRYE cards available anyway anytime yet?
I was just over at mtgnews and I was talking to a guy who has the mag, issue #81 which is the March issue. He said he was trying to get a scanner for the cards.
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Mr Blonde:symb: Resident SwampMage:symb:
"Are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite?"
Doesn't the SHOAL circumvent THAT? Or am I misreading the shoal?
Short answer: YES!
Long Answer: Shoal is an ALTERNATE CASTING COST, it does not say it is free, it says you have to remove a card from your hand to pay for the card, aka just the shoal, instead of mana. Well go up and read the 4th post from the top where I site two rulebook sources that explicitly state that you still pay ADDITIONAL COSTS, aka splicing (which I prove is an additional cost as well). Honestly, twist, do you think wizards would print it so you can splice 5 cards onto 1 for free? Really ask yourself honestly.
Anyways, Vortex and Blonde, you might want to have that conversation via PMing cuz the mods may or may not warn you because some of your posts are completely unrelated to the topic (tryin to look out for you).
I still think Blazing Shoal is being overrated. And there is no chance the Black one lets you draw cards unless you lose twice the life of for every card you draw. Mutilate is much more likely than that. The White one will be a sorcery and generate X tokens, or nuke lands, i think.
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The Medallions will reduce the splice costs. As will Long Forgotten Gohei.
green (my guess would be pumpage, but since red got some, it's hard to say, putting a creature to play seems a strong and risky, but a possibility, sorcery speed pumping could be too)
white (sadly, it might be life gain or damage prevention, I'm personally hoping for something else, )
black (discard would be utterly powerful this way, could be -x/-x)
However, Medallion won't reduce mana cost and splice cost separately. It only reduces the total cost, and only once.
I think it is the white card that will be the best of this group, now whether or not it will have a deck based around it i dont no, but i think it is the best card in the group.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
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Trinisphere sets all Affinity creatures to at least 3 mana.
Hokori + Ghostly Prison = yummy. Also, remember that most good WW decks run 3-4 Chrome Moxes. That could result in a HUGE mana advantage by dropping 2 moxes. And CHK-Block WW anyone? Pale Curtain, Isamaru, Hokori, Prison, Reciprocate, Lantern Kami, and who knows what else will be coming?
I hope that the one is loss life draw cards equal to or equal to the cc of the card you discard. It would be like Skeletal Scrying. Discard would be broken. It would be to much like Mind Twist and we all know its power.
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2. So, if I have the shoal, announce it, splice a glaical ray on (additions), then remove the card, it costs 0 even after the splice, RIGHT? Thanks; I just need confirmation on this, because it's the ultimate splice enabler; you can splice colored cards you can't otherwise play, splice expensive stuff like Through the breach (6cc; the perfect number to ditch to the X, AND can drop a darksteel collosus into play with haste (after you've given another creature +X,+0).
3. If this is how it works, Big Red will rule T2, and block?
Two hundred degrees
Thats why they call me "Mr Fahrenheit"
Team YMG: The YMG that can actually play
Black possibilities:
Discard? No. Discard 7 cards for 2 cards 1st turn? Uh... no.
Drain Life? Yep.
Exume/Reanimate? As we have two such cards in the set, the common being what this (rare) would be, no. Although it'd be very interesting, though it'd probably have the same blue "exactly X" thing the blue one does.
Necropotence? Let's see... change 2 cards into 6, repeat? No.
White:
Gain life? Underpowered.
Prevent Damage? See above.
gain life + prevent damage? Possible...
+X,+X to blocker? Maybe...
X +1,+1 counters for damage prevented? possible
X +1,+1 counters for target blocker? uh, a little too powerful, no? T2, block, have a 6/6 that flips to form the most horrible guy w/ doublestrike!
Regenerate X creatures? unlikely...
It doesn't work like that because the splice cost is always paid in addition to the normal cost of the spell.
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409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text, and some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all cost increases and minus all cost reductions. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
So Disrupting Shoal is paid for with an alternative cost, removing a red card from your hand. The total cost is equivalent to this alternative cost PLUS ADDITIONAL COSTS (splicing). Disrupting Shoal is not a cost reductions, it is an alternate cost method, and therefore does NOT affect spliced spells. And just for kicks
502.40a Splice is a static ability that functions while a card is in your hand. "Splice onto [type or subtype] [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand as you play a [type or subtype] spell. If you do, copy this card's text box onto that spell and pay [cost] as an additional cost to play that spell." Paying a card's splice cost follows the rules for paying additional costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f-h.
And about the Shoals... I did say "overpowered" for a reason. I was implying I couldnt comprehend a Black card theyd allow to be played with an alternate cost, Corrupt seems the most likely, but even that is extremely powerful, Uber-Fireblast anyone?
I still stand by the White Shoal being a Decree, as broken as that is, its about the same power level as the black Corrupt one.
EDIT: Yes Vortex, I realize that, I was pointing out to Twist that its ridiculously overpowered and not feasible. Try to read more than just one post before jumping in, you would have seen I was proving that splice doesnt work like the example I gave.
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I think that the card draw would be balanced if the life loss is attached to the card. They gave you Promise of Power and like I said before Skeletal Scying . The card would balance itself out with the life loss and maybe being a sorcery.
I also like your thought on a Mutilate version. That would be very cool
@Magicdeckvortex I enjoy your site very much. Especially the art page and the visual spoilers.
Doesn't the SHOAL circumvent THAT? Or am I misreading the shoal?
Thank you very much.
I have been meaning to update the art page for a while... lord known I have plenty of art images. It seems more than half of my visitors of my visitors enjoy the visual spoilers over the deck database. Mind you the DDB (deck database) is the reason the site really exists.
Anyways, thanks!!!!
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Let's see... Skeletal Scrying is a DRAW ENGINE in type 1. Something tells me it's overpowered.
A Mutilate version would be too powerful. (uh... turn 2, all creatures get -6, -6? No.)
A necropetence version... well, let's put it this way... I'd be VERY tempted to start running it and the black Myojin in Affinity. I mulligan into having the combo, (say 3 cards left), then have 1 card left and draw how many cards? Then probably repeat the process? Then sacrifice everything to my ravager with my two disciples in play... yeah. Way to go.
I haven't been able to find one yet. Nor do I think I will.
Have there been any scans of the SCRYE cards available anyway anytime yet?
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Short answer: YES!
Long Answer: Shoal is an ALTERNATE CASTING COST, it does not say it is free, it says you have to remove a card from your hand to pay for the card, aka just the shoal, instead of mana. Well go up and read the 4th post from the top where I site two rulebook sources that explicitly state that you still pay ADDITIONAL COSTS, aka splicing (which I prove is an additional cost as well). Honestly, twist, do you think wizards would print it so you can splice 5 cards onto 1 for free? Really ask yourself honestly.
Anyways, Vortex and Blonde, you might want to have that conversation via PMing cuz the mods may or may not warn you because some of your posts are completely unrelated to the topic (tryin to look out for you).
I still think Blazing Shoal is being overrated. And there is no chance the Black one lets you draw cards unless you lose twice the life of for every card you draw. Mutilate is much more likely than that. The White one will be a sorcery and generate X tokens, or nuke lands, i think.
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Thats why they call me "Mr Fahrenheit"
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