4) Go to www.mediafire.com/sets and download the magic game definition.
a. In the main page click "O2" ---> "Game Definitions"
b. Download the file named "Magic-v0.0.2.5.o8g"
Supposed to be "O2 - Game Definitions and Other Files" -> "1.0.x" -> "Magic.v1.0.o8g" I assume?
c. Optionally, you can download also the file "List of shortcuts and Info.txt" if you want to know all the shortcuts used by octgn 2.
File DNE.
d. Return back to O2 folder clicking on "Back to Previous Folder" link.
e. Now you can either go to "Packed Set files" or "Single set files" and download the sets you want.
-if you have downloaded the packed files, unzip them anywhere (not into the directory where you have installed octgn 2 though).
Some zips will create folders containing 3 or more set files. Those files are the various sets you want to install.
-I suggest you to move all the set files into a folder named "O2 Sets". Put it on the desktop. Only the set files, not the folders created after unzipping.
First, I guess these are in "O1 - Sets" -> "Packed Set Files"?
I'm skeptical at continuing with these directions, as they appear to be very out of date.
Also, upon further investigation, apparently my download came with the magic definitions, and set files, making these instructions even further off.
Are there updated directions that I'm missing or something?
The link to the torrent says v0.0.2.8, but header info says v2.8... Unless this is some foreign version numbering system, this is pretty confusing (IIRC, Official Version.Major Revision.Minor Revision.Build).
Supposed to be "O2 - Game Definitions and Other Files" -> "1.0.x" -> "Magic.v1.0.o8g" I assume?File DNE.First, I guess these are in "O1 - Sets" -> "Packed Set Files"?
I have modified the names of folders in order to be less confusing, even though you seem the only one who has problems recognizing that O1 = OCTGN 1 and O2 = OCTGN 2. Sorry for the irony here, though
Packed files are not available for the moment, i'm waiting a bit to make them but they will be eventually in the future.
I'm skeptical at continuing with these directions, as they appear to be very out of date.
Also, upon further investigation, apparently my download came with the magic definitions, and set files, making these instructions even further off.
Are there updated directions that I'm missing or something?
You have taken the torrent which hasn't been created by any official developer or maintainer of set files. So i cannot assure you that it will be updated with new files or definitions.
The link to the torrent says v0.0.2.8, but header info says v2.8... Unless this is some foreign version numbering system, this is pretty confusing (IIRC, Official Version.Major Revision.Minor Revision.Build).
Again, i don't maintain the torrent so i cannot help you with that. I can say that you will find everything you need on www.mediafire.com/sets
I also don't see WWK/ROE in Hi-Res.
They are present into the OCTGN 2 single set files folder on mediafire.
Actually, i don't know for sure. The main developer (jods) has decided to make a major change in the way scripting is implemented, abandoning xml in favor of python, so right now all the programming efforts are put onto this thing and other developments are in stand by... Draft anyway was on top of the todo list (and i know he was working massively on it), so expect to find it in one of the next releases
Alright, assuming I jumped the gun on not using this, I'll give it another try. Here's my thoughts as I'm going through the install, according to your .txt directions.
Install .net 4... Done.
Download and install... Easy enough.
Set my nickname and directory... Well there's no option for that at the startup screen, so lets click some buttons... OH, so this is under the "Start a new game" button... Nickname... Done... Port number... Do I leave this as default? Well, the directions don't say, so I suppose so...
Oh, I need to set up ipv6... click here... well the instructions are clear enough. Everything's set... "You seem to be behind a Network Address Translation. To be able to host a game, you may need to use a green IPv6 address, or setup port-forwarding properly on your router... What's a "green" IP address...? Literally green? Well, the one here is green, so I guess let's go on...
There's no option for where this directory will be, so I guess I have to set that up manually... Well apparently it doesn't have an obvious install folder in "C:\Program Files", so I guess I'll make one... "C:\Program Files\OCTGN" it is.
Magic Game Definition... "O2 -> Game Definitions"... Well, actually that's "OCTGN 2 - Game Definitions & Other Files", but I digress I suppose (-> typically designates a new directory, where both the left and right of that symbol are two different directories; in windows according to the directions, this would be something like "C:\O2\Game Definitions" where it's actually more like "C:\OCTGN 2 - Game Definitions & Other Files"). Game Definition v1.0.x... Magic.v1.0.o8g.
List of shortcuts and Info eh? Alright...
Download single set files? There's no way to download them all at the same time?! Well, this is gonna take awhile but, alright. Do I need to put them on the desktop? Is there any advantage to this instead of the directory I just made? I suppose not.
I guess I want "A. Set Files v1.0" since that's the game definition version I downloaded, but the directions don't say. Well, moving right along. Type 2, done. Extended has all the other sets I guess? No? Well these are all 1.0, so let's finish these first...
Wait, so now I have to download all the other sets, INDIVIDUALLY, and then patch them, and then RENAME ALL OF THEM!? Not to mention some of the ones in the text file that were "Updated" aren't available for download? ☺☺☺☺ that, I'm going to the torrent, then updating them.
So apparently, 75% of the sets won't be patched... And that's where I step off this train. Some of this is embellished a little, but you get the point hopefully.
The error I'm having is that the 0.0.2.x sets won't install, AND they won't update, according to your patching instructions. So, apparently when you noted "NO LONGER SUPPORTED" in your downloads, you really meant "NO LONGER FUNCTIONAL WITH MAGIC GAME DEFINITION 1.0".
TLDR, pre 1.0 sets can't be patched according to the instructions. Downloading sets individually is VERY time consuming, and apparently you don't support the torrent (which is also out of date according to your instructions). However, upon doing some testing, the sets you say are "NO LONGER SUPPORTED" can't be patched even when downloaded from the address provided.
Dude, you are the only one who is having so many problems with octgn 2, really.
said that, I'm interpreting your posts as pathetic tentatives of trolling against a program that clearly you don't like or you don't want to.
I'm trying to help as much as i can, maybe not everything is perfect (the readme needs some updates since the client has changed a lot after i wrote that document, i admit it), but assuming that you are not a noob (which I think you aren't) there's no way you can't understand how it works.
Regarding IPV6: teredo tunneling (which uses IPV6) has been added for those who have problem with NAT or can't port forward correctly their routers for any reason. If you don't have any problem with that, you can use normal IPV4 address to connect to other people. The standard port works nicely but you can use any port you like.
Another complaint i really don't understand regards the download of sets. I have downloaded ALL the sets (not only T2 and EXT but ALL files) in 30 minutes, 2 TIMES, and i'm speaking of single set files. Mediafire lets you download multiple files a the same time so again, I don't see ANY problem in spending 30 minutes of your life clicking a couple of times for each file.
Regarding patching: the patches have been made only for those who already have downloaded all the files (pre 1.0) and obviously don't want to download everything again after 1.0 came out. As i already said, we are in a time of transition from old version of sets to version 1.0, and updating all the sets unfortunately takes time and there are also some problems with older sets. THAT'S WHY not all the sets have been already updated. We thought that letting people use T2 and EXT sets while we update missing ones was good for people to test new funcionalities added with 1.0 game definition and sets.
This decision has been made also because we noticed that the majority of people plays with T2 and EXT cards. We decided also to break compatibility with older versions in order to avoid any issue and because of all the changes we made with game def 1.0.
You don't need to rename the files or patch them if you have downloaded v1.0, that is only for those who have old versions of files (renaming is not mandatory also for them by the way)... Again, I don't think that you need a degree in mathematics to understand that, dude, come on !!
New patches will come out when sets will be updated, and at the same time single set files already updated will be uploaded to mediafire site. You obviously wont need patches but only files to download.
I hope to have been sufficiently clear, but if you have any doubt just ask.
Dude, you are the only one who is having so many problems with octgn 2, really.
said that, I'm interpreting your posts as pathetic tentatives of trolling against a program that clearly you don't like or you don't want to.
You are wrong, CXA26483 is not the only person who has a problem, or have you forgotten the rest of this thread? Why are you blaming him for your confusing directions?
And now the program is converting to python. Why don't you let us know when it's finished? Because Octagon is not ready for prime time now, just like it wasn't years ago. It's underground for a good reason: It's hard to use, and the support is weak. The leet cognoscenti like the fact that they have figured it out and the rest of the world is too dumb to do so. So be it, but quit saying how it's better than MWS. Online Playtable is also much easier to use, and there are other apps also.
Tell me where I have said that octgn 2 is better than MWS please. Just tell me. Trolling attempt #1 failed.
The program is not converting to python, the scripting system is. The program is written in C# and assembly .NET. The support can surely improve but it's not as weak as you want to demonstrate without giving any example.
Trolling attempt #2 failed, sorry dude.
If you say that octgn 2 is hard to use, it means that obviously you have tried an outdated version of the program or you haven't tried anything. Another trolling attempt fail.
You are obviously talking without knowing anything or knowing very little of the project, so what's the point of your post?
Go trolling elsewhere please.
@CXA26483: check the chatroom, i'm trying to stay there as much as i can
Maybe it's just me, but it honestly seems like people are having alot of trouble installing something that's very simple. Here I'll outline the steps I followed to get everything up and running in 30 minutes:
1. Read the first post of this thread. Found that it was last edited on March of this year, so figured that if this product was still in development, then the installation instructions were probably out of date.
2. Went to http://www.octgn.net/downloads.php and followed the extremely simple instructions: installed .NET 4, restarted my computer, then clicked the OCTGN 2 installation link on the same page.
3. Followed the http://www.mediafire.com/sets link that was posted on the first page. Navigated to the OCTGN 2 - Game Defintions/Game Definition v1.0 directory and downloaded Magic v1.0 and Markers v1.0
4. Went back to the main directory and then to the OCTGN 2 - Sets/Single Set Files and downloaded the sets I was interested in playing.
5. Installed OCTGN 2, clicked Manage Installed Games and installed the Magic v1.0 file and the sets.
That was it. Literally, took me only 30 minutes. No, I didn't download the torrent -- I used a little common sense and spent 5 minutes looking at the development updates and realized any torrent that was last updated 3 months ago would be worthless.
Seriously, Gaspare is trying to be alot more helpful than most of the other posters who are crapping on this thread -- the same ones who are too lazy to spend a few minutes doing some simple research to save themselves alot of headache.
@Gaspare: Trolls are rude. I wasn't and you were. You are the troll, troll.
You are competing with LackeyCCG and OPT and MWS and a good handful of other programs. People (as in, more than one person) tell you that Octagon (version 2, not version 1, we do know the difference) is hard to install properly, after trying more than once, and they are all wrong and you are right. You have been given a direct quote of a disgraceful chatroom correspondence, but it's just an anomaly to you. It is not an anomoly, it is business as usual.
The whole marching band is on the other foot, and yet you are the only person in step. Are you insane? This friendly attitude is typical of you Octagon salesmen, and yet another reason why Octagon is doomed to languish in obscurity. Good luck converting the unwashed with your attitude. I'll stick with <another program>, you know, the program where the developer politely responds, and doesn't take a month to do it. Yes, I know what I'm talking about. I've been to your forum, your blog, your website, your chatroom, and I've been doing so for years. I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
And saying "troll" and "fail" over and over doesn't emphasize your point, it shows you are a cliched hack writer who needs a thesaurus. I'm quite sure that insulting me will result in the whole world abandoning their favorite apps now, and rushing to install Octagon. Good luck with that, and thanks for putting such a friendly face on a wonderful program.
You have been given a direct quote of a disgraceful chatroom correspondence, but it's just an anomaly to you. It is not an anomoly, it is business as usual.
I just wanted to address this really fast, because this is one of the reasons that I'm posting in this thread.
CXA pasted his chatroom convo in the... I'll quote it here:
<mib_hsiptc>: anyone here?
<McDuff>: 203.58.18.96
<Urza>: nope
<McDuff>: quick rejohin
<sloppy_joe>: no
<Noodle_Mage>: 76.22.52.253
<mib_hsiptc>: ?
<Noodle_Mage>: peni?
<Noodle_Mage>: coming?
<mib_hsiptc>: uh, right...
<mib_hsiptc>: so i'm looking for a [WWK] game definition
<mib_hsiptc>: anyone have it?
<mib_hsiptc>: is that a no?
<mib_hsiptc>: because the forum says to come here.
<mib_hsiptc>:alright, thanks for the help
Assuming that hsiptc is CXA, he actually starts off the convo rudely. Anyone with a small amount of social grace wouldn't start off a conversation with, "anyone here?". So, getting off on the wrong foot, then getting mad because they respond in kind... eh, I can certainly see why they weren't helpful.
Btw, just to prove a point, here is my convo from this afternoon:
<Tebbo>: LOL
<Tebbo>: ok
<Tebbo>: From now on
<mib_vxov5m>: hello
<Tebbo>: let's establish a 0 pm rule
<Tebbo>: no pm's
<Tebbo>: it takes too long
<Tebbo>: and it causes crashes
<corby>: it crashed when i tried to add a loyalty counter
<mib_vxov5m>: i had a question about installing and running mtg OCTGN 2
<mib_vxov5m>: is the best place to get the updated definitions from mediafire?
<mib_vxov5m>: or is there another place i should look at?
<Tebbo>: yes dude
<Tebbo>: get those there
<corby>: get everything from mediafire
<Tebbo>: it's not a complete list
<Tebbo>: but there' st2
<Tebbo>: and everyone here pretty much plays t2
<mib_vxov5m>: ah, ok
<mib_vxov5m>: any plans for older sets?
<Tebbo>: corby, I didn't really like your deck
<corby>: hey teb
<mib_vxov5m>: or just t2 right now?
<corby>: sorry tebbo
<Tebbo>: what did you think about mine?
<Tebbo>: quick eh?
<corby>: i like the idea
<mib_vxov5m>: i heard they're adding booster drafting too
<corby>: wanna do a 1v1 teb?
<mib_vxov5m>: but they're holding that back until they redo the octgn 2 coding?
<werevamp>: They should add older sets too
<Tebbo>: ok corbz
<Tebbo>: 70.180.90.228
<werevamp>: they had them but just moved to version 1.0 where they had to redo the sets
<mib_vxov5m>: ah
<Tebbo>: they made a patcher
<Tebbo>: but no one can figure it out
<mib_vxov5m>: hah
<Tebbo>: cuz I don't have the source code
<Tebbo>: if I had the source I could prolly do it
<corby>: tebbo
<corby>: cant join
<Tebbo>: ?
<Tebbo>: 70.180.90.228
<Tebbo>: ?
*** Tebbo was kicked by helios.ircstorm.net (Flooding (Limit is 3 lines per 5 seconds))
<werevamp>: ask brine
<mib_vxov5m>: =p
<mib_vxov5m>: alright, thanks much for the infoz
Not exactly welcoming me with open arms, but answered the questions I had very quickly. I know this is a mtg forum, not one on proper social etiquette, but sometimes it's a good idea to put the cards down and go out and talk to people.
Gaspare, some of the messages about OCTGN could have been a bit more kindly worded - but a word of advice from developer to developer. When even one person says it's confusing or frustrating, you should look closer.
CXA pasted his chatroom convo in the... I'll quote it here:
Assuming that hsiptc is CXA, he actually starts off the convo rudely. Anyone with a small amount of social grace wouldn't start off a conversation with, "anyone here?". So, getting off on the wrong foot, then getting mad because they respond in kind... eh, I can certainly see why they weren't helpful.
That's ridiculous. Are you seriously suggesting that CXA asking "anyone here?" means he deserves the complete garbage response he got? And it is not unreasonable to enter chat and ask if anyone is paying attention. Just because someone is logged in doesn't mean they're actually there.
I can tell you that some of the stuff I've seen from OCTGN developers, chat room quotes, and people claiming to be affiliated with OCTGN has led to me having an utter lack of interest in working on an MSE-to-OCTGN export template. I'm quite unimpressed.
Dude, you are the only one who is having so many problems with octgn 2, really.
said that, I'm interpreting your posts as pathetic tentatives of trolling against a program that clearly you don't like or you don't want to.
I'm trying to help as much as i can, maybe not everything is perfect (the readme needs some updates since the client has changed a lot after i wrote that document, i admit it), but assuming that you are not a noob (which I think you aren't) there's no way you can't understand how it works.
As I already explained, I do what I can to help people with MWS. Albeit, much of the directions already exist, at the time I joined the forum, it was pretty much the only way to test decks online for free. The OCTGN thread didn't exist at that time (IIRC). Because of that, and also due to my involvement with the MWS spoilers for a bit of time, I learned the in and outs of MWS, and let me tell you, very specific directions help. Even if they are somewhat lacking, I went out of my way to make a video showing exactly what to do, because the program was that touchy. I don't think you can blame me for assuming that, what's apparently a still "in development" program, might be just as picky as MWS (which is also unfinished).
I didn't say that I didn't like the program. It actually looks pretty nice (or what it's hoping to be looks nice). However, in my experience with programs such as this (albeit limited), they seem to suddenly drop off the face of the earth. Call it a pet peeve, but it irks me to no extent that the devs of MWS would still sell an incomplete program, knowing all the trouble it causes. I know your program is free, but from my experience, the support for it is somewhat lacking (and no offense to Captain.Hammer, but it's also my belief that the OP of a thread is responsible/obligated to keep the first post updated with relevant information... looks like you're a bit behind, and Gaspare is taking over, so maybe ask him for a hand?). As you can tell from my posted chat log (as I will later discuss), I can't take the program seriously if when I need help, the potential answer is "peni."
Regarding IPV6: teredo tunneling (which uses IPV6) has been added for those who have problem with NAT or can't port forward correctly their routers for any reason. If you don't have any problem with that, you can use normal IPV4 address to connect to other people. The standard port works nicely but you can use any port you like.
I have a very basic understanding of all of these things, and my question was more or less, my IP address is green, after I set up IPv6. Do I have to do anything else (as the warning text on the application itself notes)? If yes, what? If no, well then I'm done.
Another complaint i really don't understand regards the download of sets. I have downloaded ALL the sets (not only T2 and EXT but ALL files) in 30 minutes, 2 TIMES, and i'm speaking of single set files. Mediafire lets you download multiple files a the same time so again, I don't see ANY problem in spending 30 minutes of your life clicking a couple of times for each file.
Mediafire lets you download folders only if you have a premium account, which I do not, unless I'm missing something here. But that's 30 minutes I didn't have to spend doing all that is my point. Zip all the set files in one place, and be done with it. As has already been said, making individual sets the default is catering to the minority (people who don't want all the sets), or obeying the exception, not the rule.
Regarding patching: the patches have been made only for those who already have downloaded all the files (pre 1.0) and obviously don't want to download everything again after 1.0 came out. As i already said, we are in a time of transition from old version of sets to version 1.0, and updating all the sets unfortunately takes time and there are also some problems with older sets. THAT'S WHY not all the sets have been already updated. We thought that letting people use T2 and EXT sets while we update missing ones was good for people to test new funcionalities added with 1.0 game definition and sets.
This decision has been made also because we noticed that the majority of people plays with T2 and EXT cards. We decided also to break compatibility with older versions in order to avoid any issue and because of all the changes we made with game def 1.0.
See, after obtaining that bit of information, I see that the updates for the set files are not finished, rather than not working. There's a very large difference. You have to keep in mind, that I'm a new user to this program, and when I see a wall of red text, it's perfectly natural to assume "something is wrong with the directions/the way I read the directions". In either case, coming here and posting what happened was the right thing to do in my book. If the directions were wrong, now you know to fix them. If I read the directions wrong, now you know to make them clearer.
You don't need to rename the files or patch them if you have downloaded v1.0, that is only for those who have old versions of files (renaming is not mandatory also for them by the way)... Again, I don't think that you need a degree in mathematics to understand that, dude, come on !!
The statements in your "How To" .txt file were very ambiguous to me, and surrounded by incorrect directories etc., I think it's reasonable to ask for clarification. If one person can find something unclear, another person can. Why do you think the MWS thread has 2-3 different ways to answer "Is MWS free?"
New patches will come out when sets will be updated, and at the same time single set files already updated will be uploaded to mediafire site. You obviously wont need patches but only files to download.
I hope to have been sufficiently clear, but if you have any doubt just ask.
Well let's make sure...
Most of what is able to be used is solely T2. The other set files still require patching.
In regards to setting up IPv6, I assume green text in that area means I don't have to do anything else.
I think that's pretty much it...? After that, I check back here for updates on new patches (or set files, since all I need to do then is download the set file, delete the old one from the "Manage Games" button on OCTGN, and then "install" the new ones?)?
Tell me where I have said that octgn 2 is better than MWS please. Just tell me. Trolling attempt #1 failed.
The program is not converting to python, the scripting system is. The program is written in C# and assembly .NET. The support can surely improve but it's not as weak as you want to demonstrate without giving any example.
Trolling attempt #2 failed, sorry dude.
If you say that octgn 2 is hard to use, it means that obviously you have tried an outdated version of the program or you haven't tried anything. Another trolling attempt fail.
You are obviously talking without knowing anything or knowing very little of the project, so what's the point of your post?
Go trolling elsewhere please.
@CXA26483: check the chatroom, i'm trying to stay there as much as i can
I believe he mistook you for Captain.Hammer, who said...
I meant to wrote that OCTGN 2.0 is better than Magic Workstation (not MTG Salvation) because it has a lot of additional functionality, including multiplayer gaming.
So, what you see as trolling, I really just see as Huggybaby mistaking someone else's statement to belong to you. As far as being hard to use, what I forgot to mention, is that the keystroke guide you uploaded lacks the deckbuilding strokes for adding cards to your sideboard. Additionally, as I already mentioned, it lacks "one click" functionality to add cards, and the search is slow. It doesn't have the option to simply click in the table displaying all the installed cards, and then begin typing a card name to bring it up; You need to use the search to find a specific card, which is kind of a waste of time. That being said, saying the program is "hard to use", isn't totally off base. Your purported "attempt 2" at trolling from Huggybaby, was just semantics. I'm going to go out on limb (which could be wrong) and say, Huggybaby, like most of the other people visiting this thread, have no idea how the program was made, and don't really care. We just care that it works.
I just wanted to address this really fast, because this is one of the reasons that I'm posting in this thread.
CXA pasted his chatroom convo in the... I'll quote it here:
Assuming that hsiptc is CXA, he actually starts off the convo rudely. Anyone with a small amount of social grace wouldn't start off a conversation with, "anyone here?". So, getting off on the wrong foot, then getting mad because they respond in kind... eh, I can certainly see why they weren't helpful.
Btw, just to prove a point, here is my convo from this afternoon:
<Tebbo>: LOL
<Tebbo>: ok
<Tebbo>: From now on
<mib_vxov5m>: hello
<Tebbo>: let's establish a 0 pm rule
<Tebbo>: no pm's
<Tebbo>: it takes too long
<Tebbo>: and it causes crashes
<corby>: it crashed when i tried to add a loyalty counter
<mib_vxov5m>: i had a question about installing and running mtg OCTGN 2
<mib_vxov5m>: is the best place to get the updated definitions from mediafire?
<mib_vxov5m>: or is there another place i should look at?
<Tebbo>: yes dude
<Tebbo>: get those there
<corby>: get everything from mediafire
<Tebbo>: it's not a complete list
<Tebbo>: but there' st2
<Tebbo>: and everyone here pretty much plays t2
<mib_vxov5m>: ah, ok
<mib_vxov5m>: any plans for older sets?
<Tebbo>: corby, I didn't really like your deck
<corby>: hey teb
<mib_vxov5m>: or just t2 right now?
<corby>: sorry tebbo
<Tebbo>: what did you think about mine?
<Tebbo>: quick eh?
<corby>: i like the idea
<mib_vxov5m>: i heard they're adding booster drafting too
<corby>: wanna do a 1v1 teb?
<mib_vxov5m>: but they're holding that back until they redo the octgn 2 coding?
<werevamp>: They should add older sets too
<Tebbo>: ok corbz
<Tebbo>: 70.180.90.228
<werevamp>: they had them but just moved to version 1.0 where they had to redo the sets
<mib_vxov5m>: ah
<Tebbo>: they made a patcher
<Tebbo>: but no one can figure it out
<mib_vxov5m>: hah
<Tebbo>: cuz I don't have the source code
<Tebbo>: if I had the source I could prolly do it
<corby>: tebbo
<corby>: cant join
<Tebbo>: ?
<Tebbo>: 70.180.90.228
<Tebbo>: ?
*** Tebbo was kicked by helios.ircstorm.net (Flooding (Limit is 3 lines per 5 seconds))
<werevamp>: ask brine
<mib_vxov5m>: =p
<mib_vxov5m>: alright, thanks much for the infoz
Not exactly welcoming me with open arms, but answered the questions I had very quickly. I know this is a mtg forum, not one on proper social etiquette, but sometimes it's a good idea to put the cards down and go out and talk to people.
As for you, in nearly every IRC chat (or other chatroom) I've been in which existed for tech support, I was greeted by someone ready to answer my questions. The remainder of those chatrooms, took some (what MTGS would define as) spam posting, such as "Hello?" or "Anyone here?" to get a response from the people in it. I sat there for a minute or so, and after no response, assumed that it, well, out of some crazy notion, maybe the people were idle, or at their computer, not paying attention to the chat. What a delusion, to be sure! If you think question if someone is "AFK" essentially is rude, suck it up, really. I don't think male genitalia is the appropriate response to most questions posed on a forum/chat like the one I encountered. Maybe it's the strict moderation here that has me deluded that every forum should be like this one, MTGS (which again, I think is an outstanding model to go by [inb4 you're suckling at the power tit], despite the vocal minority climbing from their holes to ***** and moan about the staff here), I don't know. But I ask myself, if I had visited this person on the job, at a store, if they responded to me that way, what would happen to their job? My bet is not keep it. If I'm not going to tolerate that behavior in real life, why should it be any different on the internet?
In any case, my original intent of that post was to embellish my thought process a little, to portray, what I would imagine the average user of the program would go through, not to ignite a powder keg of douchebaggery resulting in the degrading of this thread into what (hopefully) lies well behind us now. In any case, the point that I didn't understand various parts of the directions is still there. What you (Gaspare) choose to do with that information is up to you.
You and I both know a bit about making a program usable and are eminently qualified to speak on the subject. I wrote the official MWS guide almost six years ago and it has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times. It's out of date, but it answers questions still being asked today, which proves some people don't read it. You have made some nice videos and are in the same situation. We know about training people to use software.
I've written guides for other programs too that are considered standards, the best available. Why are they the best? Because they are accurate, up-to-date, and don't leave out details or assume prior knowledge from their intended audience.
If anyone is qualified to figure out how to use a software, and be able to judge whether the documentation for it is appropriate, it is us. I'm not bragging, I'm making a point.
I've followed Octagon since before it was called Octagon. Is that long enough to have formed a valid opinion? Apparently not. Has my successful guide writing for many different programs (and machines) qualified me to judge an install procedure? Apparently not. In the how-to file, you found ambiguous statements and incorrect directories. But in spite of that my difficulty means, obviously, I have tried an outdated version of the program or "haven't tried anything".
Maybe keflex's procedure is accurate, but who wants to try it now?
Every guide I've written has taken days or weeks to produce, then weeks of feedback are taken into account as every tiny source of possible misunderstanding is eliminated. The feedback is welcome as an indispensable part of the process, it's not to be bristled at.
MTG Salvation is the biggest forum of its type. If I wanted people to try my program, I would come here and be minding my P's and Q's. If someone had a problem with my install procedure, I would ask them how I could make it better. It's a simple matter to edit a text file, much easier than expecting readers to overlook my mistakes and omissions.
That's all I have to say on this subject, I've given enough free advice to those wise enough to glean it.
You and I both know a bit about making a program usable and are eminently qualified to speak on the subject. I wrote the official MWS guide almost six years ago and it has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times. It's out of date, but it answers questions still being asked today, which proves some people don't read it. You have made some nice videos and are in the same situation. We know about training people to use software.
I've written guides for other programs too that are considered standards, the best available. Why are they the best? Because they are accurate, up-to-date, and don't leave out details or assume prior knowledge from their intended audience.
If anyone is qualified to figure out how to use a software, and be able to judge whether the documentation for it is appropriate, it is us. I'm not bragging, I'm making a point.
First of all, i want to apologize for my last post where i called you a troll. Obviously I over reacted and probably misread what you have written, and i am sorry about that. I respect you and what you have done (and are doing) for MWS and will continue to do so.
I've followed Octagon since before it was called Octagon. Is that long enough to have formed a valid opinion? Apparently not. Has my successful guide writing for many different programs (and machines) qualified me to judge an install procedure? Apparently not. In the how-to file, you found ambiguous statements and incorrect directories. But in spite of that my difficulty means, obviously, I have tried an outdated version of the program or "haven't tried anything".
I'll write a more accurate guide for first time installation, i admit that the existing one is outdated and needs a renovation.
Maybe keflex's procedure is accurate, but who wants to try it now?
Every guide I've written has taken days or weeks to produce, then weeks of feedback are taken into account as every tiny source of possible misunderstanding is eliminated. The feedback is welcome as an indispensable part of the process, it's not to be bristled at.
MTG Salvation is the biggest forum of its type. If I wanted people to try my program, I would come here and be minding my P's and Q's. If someone had a problem with my install procedure, I would ask them how I could make it better. It's a simple matter to edit a text file, much easier than expecting readers to overlook my mistakes and omissions.
That's all I have to say on this subject, I've given enough free advice to those wise enough to glean it.
I'll surely use those advices, i'm always ready to learn from people who know more than me.
As I already explained, I do what I can to help people with MWS. Albeit, much of the directions already exist, at the time I joined the forum, it was pretty much the only way to test decks online for free. The OCTGN thread didn't exist at that time (IIRC). Because of that, and also due to my involvement with the MWS spoilers for a bit of time, I learned the in and outs of MWS, and let me tell you, very specific directions help. Even if they are somewhat lacking, I went out of my way to make a video showing exactly what to do, because the program was that touchy. I don't think you can blame me for assuming that, what's apparently a still "in development" program, might be just as picky as MWS (which is also unfinished).
As i said in the previous post, I over reacted and apologize for being so rude. I will write a new guide trying to be as much clear and complete as i can, ready to receive any feedback to improve it.
I didn't say that I didn't like the program. It actually looks pretty nice (or what it's hoping to be looks nice). However, in my experience with programs such as this (albeit limited), they seem to suddenly drop off the face of the earth. Call it a pet peeve, but it irks me to no extent that the devs of MWS would still sell an incomplete program, knowing all the trouble it causes. I know your program is free, but from my experience, the support for it is somewhat lacking (and no offense to Captain.Hammer, but it's also my belief that the OP of a thread is responsible/obligated to keep the first post updated with relevant information... looks like you're a bit behind, and Gaspare is taking over, so maybe ask him for a hand?). As you can tell from my posted chat log (as I will later discuss), I can't take the program seriously if when I need help, the potential answer is "peni."
Octgn2 is in continuous development, updates are frequent and the main developer is putting great effort in it. Each new version comes along with bugfixes and new features (sometimes small, sometimes very big) and there's no such risk of a sudden death of the project.
I agree that support needs an important improvement, and i'm thinking to do something about that in the near future (starting with a fresh new main topic for example).
I have a very basic understanding of all of these things, and my question was more or less, my IP address is green, after I set up IPv6. Do I have to do anything else (as the warning text on the application itself notes)? If yes, what? If no, well then I'm done.
Octgn 2 handles both normal IPV4 addresses and IPV6. IPV6 option has been added for those people who are behind a NAT or can't forward ports on their routers for any reason. If you set up IPV6 correctly you just copy the green ip that octgn show to you. If you have any problem with IPV6, just copy the IPV4 internet address (not the LAN address) instead.
Mediafire lets you download folders only if you have a premium account, which I do not, unless I'm missing something here. But that's 30 minutes I didn't have to spend doing all that is my point. Zip all the set files in one place, and be done with it. As has already been said, making individual sets the default is catering to the minority (people who don't want all the sets), or obeying the exception, not the rule.
Not completely correct. Mediafire doesn't have any time limitations (like for example rapidshare has) or capped downloads (like megaupload), this means you can download multiple files (not folders, files) at a time. Of course you need to click on each link and there is not a one click option for basic users (I am a basic user too), but that's what i meant in my last post. You probabily will spend 10 minutes clicking on the links, then it's only a matter of download time.
See, after obtaining that bit of information, I see that the updates for the set files are not finished, rather than not working. There's a very large difference. You have to keep in mind, that I'm a new user to this program, and when I see a wall of red text, it's perfectly natural to assume "something is wrong with the directions/the way I read the directions". In either case, coming here and posting what happened was the right thing to do in my book. If the directions were wrong, now you know to fix them. If I read the directions wrong, now you know to make them clearer.
I didn't say that updates weren't working, i just said that patches are needed only if you downloaded old versions of the set files (pre 1.0), which of course is not your case, since you just need to download the single set files v1.0 and you are done.
The statements in your "How To" .txt file were very ambiguous to me, and surrounded by incorrect directories etc., I think it's reasonable to ask for clarification. If one person can find something unclear, another person can. Why do you think the MWS thread has 2-3 different ways to answer "Is MWS free?"
As i wrote in the previous post, i will redo from scratch the readme.
Well let's make sure...
Most of what is able to be used is solely T2. The other set files still require patching.
In regards to setting up IPv6, I assume green text in that area means I don't have to do anything else.
Incorrect. Also EXT sets are available for download (only time spiral set is missing but will be present with the next patch). By EXT sets, i mean all the sets that are legal only in the extended card pool which of course are not present in T2 folder (so starting from mirrodin and ending with eventide)
Single sets are being added along with each patch, so if a patch adds for example onslaught, also an onslaught set file already uppdated will be added for direct download.
Regarding IPV6, you are correct.
I think that's pretty much it...? After that, I check back here for updates on new patches (or set files, since all I need to do then is download the set file, delete the old one from the "Manage Games" button on OCTGN, and then "install" the new ones?)?
You wont need to download again the set files if any update comes out, because we will provide a patch for that. You just apply it (instructions are present and this time they are clear :)) and you are done. But you don't need to know about patches for now...
I believe he mistook you for Captain.Hammer, who said...So, what you see as trolling, I really just see as Huggybaby mistaking someone else's statement to belong to you. As far as being hard to use, what I forgot to mention, is that the keystroke guide you uploaded lacks the deckbuilding strokes for adding cards to your sideboard. Additionally, as I already mentioned, it lacks "one click" functionality to add cards, and the search is slow. It doesn't have the option to simply click in the table displaying all the installed cards, and then begin typing a card name to bring it up; You need to use the search to find a specific card, which is kind of a waste of time. That being said, saying the program is "hard to use", isn't totally off base. Your purported "attempt 2" at trolling from Huggybaby, was just semantics. I'm going to go out on limb (which could be wrong) and say, Huggybaby, like most of the other people visiting this thread, have no idea how the program was made, and don't really care. We just care that it works.
I already apologized for my behaviour which has been unacceptable. I hope my excuses will be accepted.
As for you, in nearly every IRC chat (or other chatroom) I've been in which existed for tech support, I was greeted by someone ready to answer my questions. The remainder of those chatrooms, took some (what MTGS would define as) spam posting, such as "Hello?" or "Anyone here?" to get a response from the people in it. I sat there for a minute or so, and after no response, assumed that it, well, out of some crazy notion, maybe the people were idle, or at their computer, not paying attention to the chat. What a delusion, to be sure! If you think question if someone is "AFK" essentially is rude, suck it up, really. I don't think male genitalia is the appropriate response to most questions posed on a forum/chat like the one I encountered. Maybe it's the strict moderation here that has me deluded that every forum should be like this one, MTGS (which again, I think is an outstanding model to go by [inb4 you're suckling at the power tit], despite the vocal minority climbing from their holes to ***** and moan about the staff here), I don't know. But I ask myself, if I had visited this person on the job, at a store, if they responded to me that way, what would happen to their job? My bet is not keep it. If I'm not going to tolerate that behavior in real life, why should it be any different on the internet?
Unfortunately, you have stumbled upon a couple of silly guys, and i agree with everything you said, but i assure you that there are many people in the chatroom ready to help newcomers.
In any case, my original intent of that post was to embellish my thought process a little, to portray, what I would imagine the average user of the program would go through, not to ignite a powder keg of douchebaggery resulting in the degrading of this thread into what (hopefully) lies well behind us now. In any case, the point that I didn't understand various parts of the directions is still there. What you (Gaspare) choose to do with that information is up to you.
As i said, i'll try to fix everything as soon as i can.
One thing just keeps me wondering. How it is possible that people are having such many problems just installing this. There must be something else behind that, cause I really see just two options: 1. Lack of skills using their OS and/or computers altogether. 2. Lack of aspiration to even use this program.
Also it is funny that people think that ANYONE they see in open, totally free IRC- or chatroom is related to this program being its producer, programmer or something similar. Being there as workers (doing their job).
And after they don't get an answer (after one minute or so) they give up.
I also wonder, but in my case it's how you only see two options, and why you attempt to inflate your ego by accusing others of ignorance. Why keep wondering when all you have to do is read this thread, where your questions are answered not only thoroughly, but ad nauseam?
I really wish my experience building, repairing, and supporting PC users for over 20 years (since before DOS 5) could add up to your genius at installing Octagon, but I must bow to you. You really have it going on. One day I'll have to figure out how this chatroom thing works too.
@Jorbes: Don't feel sorry for Jods, he knows exactly what's going on. He could have posted here years ago, just like you and so many other developers have; why should he wait? Because he wants to stay underground. Still, as developer, he's responsible for documentation and access to updates, etc., not anyone else. So, all this confusion is ultimately his responsibility and could easily have been avoided, but he has decided to handle things differently. He's decided to stay where he is, concentrate on programming, and abrogate those other responsibilities. That's his prerogative and more power to him. I'm not passing judgment and don't care one way or the other how he or anyone else handles their business. But feeling sorry is a waste of emotion better spent elsewhere.
And I'm pretty sure I read of the MWS exploit you discovered a long time ago.
@Gaspare: Thank you for your thoughtful and well considered response. I know what it took to write it, believe me. I'm sure your revised and updated procedure will be of great benefit to new Octagon users.
@Jorbes: Don't feel sorry for Jods, he knows exactly what's going on. He could have posted here years ago, just like you and so many other developers have; why should he wait? Because he wants to stay underground. Still, as developer, he's responsible for documentation and access to updates, etc., not anyone else.
This reminds me - Gaspare, are you involved with OCTGN in some official capacity, as a developer at some level, or something else? I ask because I would very much like the official thread for OCTGN to be "owned" by someone actually involved with the program, rather than a user who get excited.
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
I'm skeptical at continuing with these directions, as they appear to be very out of date.
Also, upon further investigation, apparently my download came with the magic definitions, and set files, making these instructions even further off.
Are there updated directions that I'm missing or something?
The link to the torrent says v0.0.2.8, but header info says v2.8... Unless this is some foreign version numbering system, this is pretty confusing (IIRC, Official Version.Major Revision.Minor Revision.Build).
I also don't see WWK/ROE in Hi-Res.
I have modified the names of folders in order to be less confusing, even though you seem the only one who has problems recognizing that O1 = OCTGN 1 and O2 = OCTGN 2. Sorry for the irony here, though
Packed files are not available for the moment, i'm waiting a bit to make them but they will be eventually in the future.
You have taken the torrent which hasn't been created by any official developer or maintainer of set files. So i cannot assure you that it will be updated with new files or definitions.
Again, i don't maintain the torrent so i cannot help you with that. I can say that you will find everything you need on www.mediafire.com/sets
They are present into the OCTGN 2 single set files folder on mediafire.
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
Was wondering though, is there any word on when booster drafting will be implemented?
edit: I've added to mediafire site a txt with the list off shortcuts used by MtG game definition. Here's the link http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zijay0w4wja
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
- Install .net 4... Done.
- Download and install... Easy enough.
- Set my nickname and directory... Well there's no option for that at the startup screen, so lets click some buttons... OH, so this is under the "Start a new game" button... Nickname... Done... Port number... Do I leave this as default? Well, the directions don't say, so I suppose so...
Oh, I need to set up ipv6... click here... well the instructions are clear enough. Everything's set... "You seem to be behind a Network Address Translation. To be able to host a game, you may need to use a green IPv6 address, or setup port-forwarding properly on your router... What's a "green" IP address...? Literally green? Well, the one here is green, so I guess let's go on...
- Magic Game Definition... "O2 -> Game Definitions"... Well, actually that's "OCTGN 2 - Game Definitions & Other Files", but I digress I suppose (-> typically designates a new directory, where both the left and right of that symbol are two different directories; in windows according to the directions, this would be something like "C:\O2\Game Definitions" where it's actually more like "C:\OCTGN 2 - Game Definitions & Other Files"). Game Definition v1.0.x... Magic.v1.0.o8g.
List of shortcuts and Info eh? Alright...
And that's where I step off this train. Some of this is embellished a little, but you get the point hopefully.There's no option for where this directory will be, so I guess I have to set that up manually... Well apparently it doesn't have an obvious install folder in "C:\Program Files", so I guess I'll make one... "C:\Program Files\OCTGN" it is.
Download single set files? There's no way to download them all at the same time?! Well, this is gonna take awhile but, alright. Do I need to put them on the desktop? Is there any advantage to this instead of the directory I just made? I suppose not.
I guess I want "A. Set Files v1.0" since that's the game definition version I downloaded, but the directions don't say. Well, moving right along. Type 2, done. Extended has all the other sets I guess? No? Well these are all 1.0, so let's finish these first...
Wait, so now I have to download all the other sets, INDIVIDUALLY, and then patch them, and then RENAME ALL OF THEM!? Not to mention some of the ones in the text file that were "Updated" aren't available for download? ☺☺☺☺ that, I'm going to the torrent, then updating them.
So apparently, 75% of the sets won't be patched...
The error I'm having is that the 0.0.2.x sets won't install, AND they won't update, according to your patching instructions. So, apparently when you noted "NO LONGER SUPPORTED" in your downloads, you really meant "NO LONGER FUNCTIONAL WITH MAGIC GAME DEFINITION 1.0".
TLDR, pre 1.0 sets can't be patched according to the instructions. Downloading sets individually is VERY time consuming, and apparently you don't support the torrent (which is also out of date according to your instructions). However, upon doing some testing, the sets you say are "NO LONGER SUPPORTED" can't be patched even when downloaded from the address provided.
said that, I'm interpreting your posts as pathetic tentatives of trolling against a program that clearly you don't like or you don't want to.
I'm trying to help as much as i can, maybe not everything is perfect (the readme needs some updates since the client has changed a lot after i wrote that document, i admit it), but assuming that you are not a noob (which I think you aren't) there's no way you can't understand how it works.
Regarding IPV6: teredo tunneling (which uses IPV6) has been added for those who have problem with NAT or can't port forward correctly their routers for any reason. If you don't have any problem with that, you can use normal IPV4 address to connect to other people. The standard port works nicely but you can use any port you like.
Another complaint i really don't understand regards the download of sets. I have downloaded ALL the sets (not only T2 and EXT but ALL files) in 30 minutes, 2 TIMES, and i'm speaking of single set files. Mediafire lets you download multiple files a the same time so again, I don't see ANY problem in spending 30 minutes of your life clicking a couple of times for each file.
Regarding patching: the patches have been made only for those who already have downloaded all the files (pre 1.0) and obviously don't want to download everything again after 1.0 came out. As i already said, we are in a time of transition from old version of sets to version 1.0, and updating all the sets unfortunately takes time and there are also some problems with older sets. THAT'S WHY not all the sets have been already updated. We thought that letting people use T2 and EXT sets while we update missing ones was good for people to test new funcionalities added with 1.0 game definition and sets.
This decision has been made also because we noticed that the majority of people plays with T2 and EXT cards. We decided also to break compatibility with older versions in order to avoid any issue and because of all the changes we made with game def 1.0.
You don't need to rename the files or patch them if you have downloaded v1.0, that is only for those who have old versions of files (renaming is not mandatory also for them by the way)... Again, I don't think that you need a degree in mathematics to understand that, dude, come on !!
New patches will come out when sets will be updated, and at the same time single set files already updated will be uploaded to mediafire site. You obviously wont need patches but only files to download.
I hope to have been sufficiently clear, but if you have any doubt just ask.
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
Okay, found it now. I guess I was just being dumb last time I was looking.
Thank you!
And now the program is converting to python. Why don't you let us know when it's finished? Because Octagon is not ready for prime time now, just like it wasn't years ago. It's underground for a good reason: It's hard to use, and the support is weak. The leet cognoscenti like the fact that they have figured it out and the rest of the world is too dumb to do so. So be it, but quit saying how it's better than MWS. Online Playtable is also much easier to use, and there are other apps also.
One of these days maybe, but certainly not today.
The program is not converting to python, the scripting system is. The program is written in C# and assembly .NET. The support can surely improve but it's not as weak as you want to demonstrate without giving any example.
Trolling attempt #2 failed, sorry dude.
If you say that octgn 2 is hard to use, it means that obviously you have tried an outdated version of the program or you haven't tried anything. Another trolling attempt fail.
You are obviously talking without knowing anything or knowing very little of the project, so what's the point of your post?
Go trolling elsewhere please.
@CXA26483: check the chatroom, i'm trying to stay there as much as i can
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
1. Read the first post of this thread. Found that it was last edited on March of this year, so figured that if this product was still in development, then the installation instructions were probably out of date.
2. Went to http://www.octgn.net/downloads.php and followed the extremely simple instructions: installed .NET 4, restarted my computer, then clicked the OCTGN 2 installation link on the same page.
3. Followed the http://www.mediafire.com/sets link that was posted on the first page. Navigated to the OCTGN 2 - Game Defintions/Game Definition v1.0 directory and downloaded Magic v1.0 and Markers v1.0
4. Went back to the main directory and then to the OCTGN 2 - Sets/Single Set Files and downloaded the sets I was interested in playing.
5. Installed OCTGN 2, clicked Manage Installed Games and installed the Magic v1.0 file and the sets.
That was it. Literally, took me only 30 minutes. No, I didn't download the torrent -- I used a little common sense and spent 5 minutes looking at the development updates and realized any torrent that was last updated 3 months ago would be worthless.
Seriously, Gaspare is trying to be alot more helpful than most of the other posters who are crapping on this thread -- the same ones who are too lazy to spend a few minutes doing some simple research to save themselves alot of headache.
@Gaspare: Trolls are rude. I wasn't and you were. You are the troll, troll.
You are competing with LackeyCCG and OPT and MWS and a good handful of other programs. People (as in, more than one person) tell you that Octagon (version 2, not version 1, we do know the difference) is hard to install properly, after trying more than once, and they are all wrong and you are right. You have been given a direct quote of a disgraceful chatroom correspondence, but it's just an anomaly to you. It is not an anomoly, it is business as usual.
The whole marching band is on the other foot, and yet you are the only person in step. Are you insane? This friendly attitude is typical of you Octagon salesmen, and yet another reason why Octagon is doomed to languish in obscurity. Good luck converting the unwashed with your attitude. I'll stick with <another program>, you know, the program where the developer politely responds, and doesn't take a month to do it. Yes, I know what I'm talking about. I've been to your forum, your blog, your website, your chatroom, and I've been doing so for years. I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
And saying "troll" and "fail" over and over doesn't emphasize your point, it shows you are a cliched hack writer who needs a thesaurus. I'm quite sure that insulting me will result in the whole world abandoning their favorite apps now, and rushing to install Octagon. Good luck with that, and thanks for putting such a friendly face on a wonderful program.
I just wanted to address this really fast, because this is one of the reasons that I'm posting in this thread.
CXA pasted his chatroom convo in the... I'll quote it here:
Assuming that hsiptc is CXA, he actually starts off the convo rudely. Anyone with a small amount of social grace wouldn't start off a conversation with, "anyone here?". So, getting off on the wrong foot, then getting mad because they respond in kind... eh, I can certainly see why they weren't helpful.
Btw, just to prove a point, here is my convo from this afternoon:
<Tebbo>: LOL
<Tebbo>: ok
<Tebbo>: From now on
<mib_vxov5m>: hello
<Tebbo>: let's establish a 0 pm rule
<Tebbo>: no pm's
<Tebbo>: it takes too long
<Tebbo>: and it causes crashes
<corby>: it crashed when i tried to add a loyalty counter
<mib_vxov5m>: i had a question about installing and running mtg OCTGN 2
<mib_vxov5m>: is the best place to get the updated definitions from mediafire?
<mib_vxov5m>: or is there another place i should look at?
<Tebbo>: yes dude
<Tebbo>: get those there
<corby>: get everything from mediafire
<Tebbo>: it's not a complete list
<Tebbo>: but there' st2
<Tebbo>: and everyone here pretty much plays t2
<mib_vxov5m>: ah, ok
<mib_vxov5m>: any plans for older sets?
<Tebbo>: corby, I didn't really like your deck
<corby>: hey teb
<mib_vxov5m>: or just t2 right now?
<corby>: sorry tebbo
<Tebbo>: what did you think about mine?
<Tebbo>: quick eh?
<corby>: i like the idea
<mib_vxov5m>: i heard they're adding booster drafting too
<corby>: wanna do a 1v1 teb?
<mib_vxov5m>: but they're holding that back until they redo the octgn 2 coding?
<werevamp>: They should add older sets too
<Tebbo>: ok corbz
<Tebbo>: 70.180.90.228
<werevamp>: they had them but just moved to version 1.0 where they had to redo the sets
<mib_vxov5m>: ah
<Tebbo>: they made a patcher
<Tebbo>: but no one can figure it out
<mib_vxov5m>: hah
<Tebbo>: cuz I don't have the source code
<Tebbo>: if I had the source I could prolly do it
<corby>: tebbo
<corby>: cant join
<Tebbo>: ?
<Tebbo>: 70.180.90.228
<Tebbo>: ?
*** Tebbo was kicked by helios.ircstorm.net (Flooding (Limit is 3 lines per 5 seconds))
<werevamp>: ask brine
<mib_vxov5m>: =p
<mib_vxov5m>: alright, thanks much for the infoz
Not exactly welcoming me with open arms, but answered the questions I had very quickly. I know this is a mtg forum, not one on proper social etiquette, but sometimes it's a good idea to put the cards down and go out and talk to people.
Gaspare, some of the messages about OCTGN could have been a bit more kindly worded - but a word of advice from developer to developer. When even one person says it's confusing or frustrating, you should look closer.
That's ridiculous. Are you seriously suggesting that CXA asking "anyone here?" means he deserves the complete garbage response he got? And it is not unreasonable to enter chat and ask if anyone is paying attention. Just because someone is logged in doesn't mean they're actually there.
I can tell you that some of the stuff I've seen from OCTGN developers, chat room quotes, and people claiming to be affiliated with OCTGN has led to me having an utter lack of interest in working on an MSE-to-OCTGN export template. I'm quite unimpressed.
My Moderator Helpdesk| My Custom Set List | My MSE Template HostingI didn't say that I didn't like the program. It actually looks pretty nice (or what it's hoping to be looks nice). However, in my experience with programs such as this (albeit limited), they seem to suddenly drop off the face of the earth. Call it a pet peeve, but it irks me to no extent that the devs of MWS would still sell an incomplete program, knowing all the trouble it causes. I know your program is free, but from my experience, the support for it is somewhat lacking (and no offense to Captain.Hammer, but it's also my belief that the OP of a thread is responsible/obligated to keep the first post updated with relevant information... looks like you're a bit behind, and Gaspare is taking over, so maybe ask him for a hand?). As you can tell from my posted chat log (as I will later discuss), I can't take the program seriously if when I need help, the potential answer is "peni."
I have a very basic understanding of all of these things, and my question was more or less, my IP address is green, after I set up IPv6. Do I have to do anything else (as the warning text on the application itself notes)? If yes, what? If no, well then I'm done.
Mediafire lets you download folders only if you have a premium account, which I do not, unless I'm missing something here. But that's 30 minutes I didn't have to spend doing all that is my point. Zip all the set files in one place, and be done with it. As has already been said, making individual sets the default is catering to the minority (people who don't want all the sets), or obeying the exception, not the rule.
See, after obtaining that bit of information, I see that the updates for the set files are not finished, rather than not working. There's a very large difference. You have to keep in mind, that I'm a new user to this program, and when I see a wall of red text, it's perfectly natural to assume "something is wrong with the directions/the way I read the directions". In either case, coming here and posting what happened was the right thing to do in my book. If the directions were wrong, now you know to fix them. If I read the directions wrong, now you know to make them clearer.
The statements in your "How To" .txt file were very ambiguous to me, and surrounded by incorrect directories etc., I think it's reasonable to ask for clarification. If one person can find something unclear, another person can. Why do you think the MWS thread has 2-3 different ways to answer "Is MWS free?"
Well let's make sure...
- Most of what is able to be used is solely T2. The other set files still require patching.
- In regards to setting up IPv6, I assume green text in that area means I don't have to do anything else.
I think that's pretty much it...? After that, I check back here for updates on new patches (or set files, since all I need to do then is download the set file, delete the old one from the "Manage Games" button on OCTGN, and then "install" the new ones?)?I believe he mistook you for Captain.Hammer, who said...So, what you see as trolling, I really just see as Huggybaby mistaking someone else's statement to belong to you. As far as being hard to use, what I forgot to mention, is that the keystroke guide you uploaded lacks the deckbuilding strokes for adding cards to your sideboard. Additionally, as I already mentioned, it lacks "one click" functionality to add cards, and the search is slow. It doesn't have the option to simply click in the table displaying all the installed cards, and then begin typing a card name to bring it up; You need to use the search to find a specific card, which is kind of a waste of time. That being said, saying the program is "hard to use", isn't totally off base. Your purported "attempt 2" at trolling from Huggybaby, was just semantics. I'm going to go out on limb (which could be wrong) and say, Huggybaby, like most of the other people visiting this thread, have no idea how the program was made, and don't really care. We just care that it works.
As for you, in nearly every IRC chat (or other chatroom) I've been in which existed for tech support, I was greeted by someone ready to answer my questions. The remainder of those chatrooms, took some (what MTGS would define as) spam posting, such as "Hello?" or "Anyone here?" to get a response from the people in it. I sat there for a minute or so, and after no response, assumed that it, well, out of some crazy notion, maybe the people were idle, or at their computer, not paying attention to the chat. What a delusion, to be sure! If you think question if someone is "AFK" essentially is rude, suck it up, really. I don't think male genitalia is the appropriate response to most questions posed on a forum/chat like the one I encountered. Maybe it's the strict moderation here that has me deluded that every forum should be like this one, MTGS (which again, I think is an outstanding model to go by [inb4 you're suckling at the power tit], despite the vocal minority climbing from their holes to ***** and moan about the staff here), I don't know. But I ask myself, if I had visited this person on the job, at a store, if they responded to me that way, what would happen to their job? My bet is not keep it. If I'm not going to tolerate that behavior in real life, why should it be any different on the internet?
In any case, my original intent of that post was to embellish my thought process a little, to portray, what I would imagine the average user of the program would go through, not to ignite a powder keg of douchebaggery resulting in the degrading of this thread into what (hopefully) lies well behind us now. In any case, the point that I didn't understand various parts of the directions is still there. What you (Gaspare) choose to do with that information is up to you.
You and I both know a bit about making a program usable and are eminently qualified to speak on the subject. I wrote the official MWS guide almost six years ago and it has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times. It's out of date, but it answers questions still being asked today, which proves some people don't read it. You have made some nice videos and are in the same situation. We know about training people to use software.
I've written guides for other programs too that are considered standards, the best available. Why are they the best? Because they are accurate, up-to-date, and don't leave out details or assume prior knowledge from their intended audience.
If anyone is qualified to figure out how to use a software, and be able to judge whether the documentation for it is appropriate, it is us. I'm not bragging, I'm making a point.
I've followed Octagon since before it was called Octagon. Is that long enough to have formed a valid opinion? Apparently not. Has my successful guide writing for many different programs (and machines) qualified me to judge an install procedure? Apparently not. In the how-to file, you found ambiguous statements and incorrect directories. But in spite of that my difficulty means, obviously, I have tried an outdated version of the program or "haven't tried anything".
Maybe keflex's procedure is accurate, but who wants to try it now?
Every guide I've written has taken days or weeks to produce, then weeks of feedback are taken into account as every tiny source of possible misunderstanding is eliminated. The feedback is welcome as an indispensable part of the process, it's not to be bristled at.
MTG Salvation is the biggest forum of its type. If I wanted people to try my program, I would come here and be minding my P's and Q's. If someone had a problem with my install procedure, I would ask them how I could make it better. It's a simple matter to edit a text file, much easier than expecting readers to overlook my mistakes and omissions.
That's all I have to say on this subject, I've given enough free advice to those wise enough to glean it.
First of all, i want to apologize for my last post where i called you a troll. Obviously I over reacted and probably misread what you have written, and i am sorry about that. I respect you and what you have done (and are doing) for MWS and will continue to do so.
I'll write a more accurate guide for first time installation, i admit that the existing one is outdated and needs a renovation.
I'll surely use those advices, i'm always ready to learn from people who know more than me.
As i said in the previous post, I over reacted and apologize for being so rude. I will write a new guide trying to be as much clear and complete as i can, ready to receive any feedback to improve it.
Octgn2 is in continuous development, updates are frequent and the main developer is putting great effort in it. Each new version comes along with bugfixes and new features (sometimes small, sometimes very big) and there's no such risk of a sudden death of the project.
I agree that support needs an important improvement, and i'm thinking to do something about that in the near future (starting with a fresh new main topic for example).
Octgn 2 handles both normal IPV4 addresses and IPV6. IPV6 option has been added for those people who are behind a NAT or can't forward ports on their routers for any reason. If you set up IPV6 correctly you just copy the green ip that octgn show to you. If you have any problem with IPV6, just copy the IPV4 internet address (not the LAN address) instead.
Not completely correct. Mediafire doesn't have any time limitations (like for example rapidshare has) or capped downloads (like megaupload), this means you can download multiple files (not folders, files) at a time. Of course you need to click on each link and there is not a one click option for basic users (I am a basic user too), but that's what i meant in my last post. You probabily will spend 10 minutes clicking on the links, then it's only a matter of download time.
I didn't say that updates weren't working, i just said that patches are needed only if you downloaded old versions of the set files (pre 1.0), which of course is not your case, since you just need to download the single set files v1.0 and you are done.
As i wrote in the previous post, i will redo from scratch the readme.
Incorrect. Also EXT sets are available for download (only time spiral set is missing but will be present with the next patch). By EXT sets, i mean all the sets that are legal only in the extended card pool which of course are not present in T2 folder (so starting from mirrodin and ending with eventide)
Single sets are being added along with each patch, so if a patch adds for example onslaught, also an onslaught set file already uppdated will be added for direct download.
Regarding IPV6, you are correct.
You wont need to download again the set files if any update comes out, because we will provide a patch for that. You just apply it (instructions are present and this time they are clear :)) and you are done. But you don't need to know about patches for now...
I already apologized for my behaviour which has been unacceptable. I hope my excuses will be accepted.
Unfortunately, you have stumbled upon a couple of silly guys, and i agree with everything you said, but i assure you that there are many people in the chatroom ready to help newcomers.
As i said, i'll try to fix everything as soon as i can.
Don't double post.
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
I really wish my experience building, repairing, and supporting PC users for over 20 years (since before DOS 5) could add up to your genius at installing Octagon, but I must bow to you. You really have it going on. One day I'll have to figure out how this chatroom thing works too.
@Jorbes: Don't feel sorry for Jods, he knows exactly what's going on. He could have posted here years ago, just like you and so many other developers have; why should he wait? Because he wants to stay underground. Still, as developer, he's responsible for documentation and access to updates, etc., not anyone else. So, all this confusion is ultimately his responsibility and could easily have been avoided, but he has decided to handle things differently. He's decided to stay where he is, concentrate on programming, and abrogate those other responsibilities. That's his prerogative and more power to him. I'm not passing judgment and don't care one way or the other how he or anyone else handles their business. But feeling sorry is a waste of emotion better spent elsewhere.
And I'm pretty sure I read of the MWS exploit you discovered a long time ago.
@Gaspare: Thank you for your thoughtful and well considered response. I know what it took to write it, believe me. I'm sure your revised and updated procedure will be of great benefit to new Octagon users.
This reminds me - Gaspare, are you involved with OCTGN in some official capacity, as a developer at some level, or something else? I ask because I would very much like the official thread for OCTGN to be "owned" by someone actually involved with the program, rather than a user who get excited.
My Moderator Helpdesk| My Custom Set List | My MSE Template HostingIt's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
edit: actually, it looks like the octgn channel doesn't exist anymore, what's up with that?
Just go to www.mibbit.com and connect to server irc.ircstorm.net channel #octgn
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
thx!
If you mean octgn 1, then i don't know
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...