I have a friend who is a Dungeon Master and his player's recently requested to do a campaign on Ravnica. I pointed him to the Wiki but he thought it would be helpful if I told him the various alignments (Lawful / Chaotic / Neutral and Good / Evil / Neutral) of all the guilds. I'm not too familiar with the system, and I'm not versed enough in the story for the specifics so I thought I'd ask you guys.
What D&D alignments do you think each of the Ravnica Guilds are?
My 2 cents: Azorius- Lawful Neutral (lawful good in the eye of the commoner) Boros- Lawful Neutral Selesnya- Neutral Good Orzhov- Lawful Evil Izzet- True Neutral with an aspect of chaos. Golgari- True Neutral Simic- Lawful Neutral Gruul- Chaotic anything, but most Evil in the eye of the commoner Rakdos- Chaotic Evil Dimir- True Evil
Few suggestions, make Azorious, Boros and Orzhov the federal empowerement. Their are rewnowed for keeping their word but any individual may have different opinion about them. For example, you Rogue consider them too opressive while your Paladins respects them.
Izzet, Simic and Golgari should be the neccessary science industries. Wheter you like them or not, you need what they offer to make your life easier.
Dimir, Rakdos and Dimir would be the the notorious ones. You don't want to mesh up with them. However, your Barbarian may have a gruul tradition and you Bard might be a rakdos musician, even if he is not evil. Just a party guy.
Selesnya is the odd one. They are in theory good, but they philosophy does disregard the individual, to the point of sacrifice for the greater good. Would be a great unexpected villain ''good'' organization.
My 2 cents: Azorius- Lawful Neutral (lawful good in the eye of the commoner) Boros- Lawful Neutral Selesnya- Neutral Good Orzhov- Lawful Evil Izzet- True Neutral with an aspect of chaos. Golgari- True Neutral Simic- Lawful Neutral Gruul- Chaotic anything, but most Evil in the eye of the commoner Rakdos- Chaotic Evil Dimir- True Evil
Few suggestions, make Azorious, Boros and Orzhov the federal empowerement. Their are rewnowed for keeping their word but any individual may have different opinion about them. For example, you Rogue consider them too opressive while your Paladins respects them.
Izzet, Simic and Golgari should be the neccessary science industries. Wheter you like them or not, you need what they offer to make your life easier.
Dimir, Rakdos and Dimir would be the the notorious ones. You don't want to mesh up with them. However, your Barbarian may have a gruul tradition and you Bard might be a rakdos musician, even if he is not evil. Just a party guy.
Selesnya is the odd one. They are in theory good, but they philosophy does disregard the individual, to the point of sacrifice for the greater good. Would be a great unexpected villain ''good'' organization.
While I'm not 100% familiar with the D&D alignment system, a cursory glance and the desire to the fit each possible combination.
Azorius: Lawful Good (The law makers, they can't see them selves as anything but lawful good)
Boros: Chaotic Good (They enforce the law, and sometimes bring the smack down to random evil doers)
Selesnya: Neutral Good (Their version of good isn't widely recgonized as they abandon the self in favor of the community)
Orzhov: Lawful Evil (They are trying to screw you with the law)
Izzet: Chaotic Neutral (Doesn't give a damn about whats going on outside their own laboratories)
Golgari: True Neutral (Out of all the guilds they most just want to be left alone, they lean towards evil but mostly because of their view of death)
Simic: Lawful Neutral (They want to do their own thing like the other Neutral Guilds but also want to work in society)
Gruul: Neutral Evil (They hate the establishment but don't really have a problem with others in general)
Rakdos: Chaotic Evil (They live for just the moment, no consequences, no hesitation, no regrets)
Dimir: Doesn't nicely fit due to falling somewhere around Chaotic and Neutral Evil while seeming to be Lawful
A quick point I simply read the wiki page on alignments and most seem to fit the guilds almost verbatim, with the biggest exceptions being Simic and Dimir who don't fit very nicely where you expect their alignemnts. Simic because I shoehorned them into Lawful Neutral(no one seems to fit here) when they seem to want to be True Neutral, but they fit there much better than the Golgari. Dimir doesn't fit as their main point is secrecy and deception and there is no alignment for that but they are squarely evil.
I'd agree that none of the guilds can really be considered properly "Good". Remember that during the original Ravnica the leadership of every guild was plotting to take over the plane.
Its also really difficult to give an alignment to an organization. What does that mean? The alignment of the leadership? The alignment of the average member? The alignment implied by the goals? Like the average Rakdos member is evidently more insane than evil (even Rakdos himself actually) but the Bloodwitches were pretty evil.
Some of the guilds have changed significantly over time as well. The Vigean Simic were Neutral Evil while the Zeganian Simic are more True Neutral (the principles Upwelling and Holdfast really make it a bit weird to place them on the Law/Chaos axis).
I'd agree that none of the guilds can really be considered properly "Good". Remember that during the original Ravnica the leadership of every guild was plotting to take over the plane.
Whoa Razi, Borborygmos, Mat'Selesnya(Chorus of the Conclave if you don't count her as the actual leader), Niv-Mizzet, The Ghost Council. None of these leaders were trying to take over the plane. Sure Mat'Selesnya's guild was used by Savra to further her own plans of planer domination but that was with out their knowledge. So only half the guilds were trying to take over the plane, while the other half we're trying to stop them, not caring, or being unwitting pawns.
I'd agree that none of the guilds can really be considered properly "Good". Remember that during the original Ravnica the leadership of every guild was plotting to take over the plane.
Whoa Razi, Borborygmos, Mat'Selesnya(Chorus of the Conclave if you don't count her as the actual leader), Niv-Mizzet, The Ghost Council. None of these leaders were trying to take over the plane. Sure Mat'Selesnya's guild was used by Savra to further her own plans of planer domination but that was with out their knowledge. So only half the guilds were trying to take over the plane, while the other half we're trying to stop them, not caring, or being unwitting pawns.
The chorus had been secretly enchanting the rest of Ravnica into a trace to join Selesnya and then the chorus was were killed by a lynch mob, which is why Selesnya fell apart until Trostani took over.
To be fair you could argue that the The Ghost Council has been plotting to take over the plane since before Ravnica 1.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Boros: Chaotic Good (They enforce the law, and sometimes bring the smack down to random evil doers)
That's not Chaotic Good. At best that's Lawful Good (enforcing the Law), at worst that's Lawful Evil.
Considering that a large amount of them did want a police state in the original trilogy, and Aurelia has taken them to a more openly aggressive and independent direction, I wager that "Chaotic Good" is still not the organisation's main alignment besides a few cells at most.
I'd agree that none of the guilds can really be considered properly "Good". Remember that during the original Ravnica the leadership of every guild was plotting to take over the plane.
And since when taking over the world makes you evil ? Some good characters might take over the world in order to establish a better life for everyone.
Mat'Selesnya was casting mass Calm Emotions, which is a signature spell for Good clerics.
I see, traditionally and overwhelmingly at least, White as Good, Blue as Lawful, Black as Evil, Red as Chaotic, and Green as Neutral.
So, you'd end up with some very strange "D&D alignments" of course. Like "Lawful Chaotic" and so on...
It doesn't neatly lign up, but that has been my take on it, since whenever.
Yeah, that's definitely the easiest way to fit the colors into D&D's alignment system if you really have to. Although White is at least as Lawful as Blue. Morality is harder. White has a lot of qualities that make it easy to be Good but its difficult to simply equate White with Good.
What D&D alignments do you think each of the Ravnica Guilds are?
Azorius: Lawful Good
Boros: Neutral Good, arguably Chaotic Good
Selesnya: Neutral Good
Orzhov: Lawful Neutral, arguably Lawful Evil
Izzet: Chaotic Neutral
Golgari: Neutral Neutral
Simic: Lawful Neutral
Gruul: Chaotic Neutral
Rakdos: Chaotic Evil
Dimir: Lawful Evil
Azorius- Lawful Neutral (lawful good in the eye of the commoner)
Boros- Lawful Neutral
Selesnya- Neutral Good
Orzhov- Lawful Evil
Izzet- True Neutral with an aspect of chaos.
Golgari- True Neutral
Simic- Lawful Neutral
Gruul- Chaotic anything, but most Evil in the eye of the commoner
Rakdos- Chaotic Evil
Dimir- True Evil
Few suggestions, make Azorious, Boros and Orzhov the federal empowerement. Their are rewnowed for keeping their word but any individual may have different opinion about them. For example, you Rogue consider them too opressive while your Paladins respects them.
Izzet, Simic and Golgari should be the neccessary science industries. Wheter you like them or not, you need what they offer to make your life easier.
Dimir, Rakdos and Dimir would be the the notorious ones. You don't want to mesh up with them. However, your Barbarian may have a gruul tradition and you Bard might be a rakdos musician, even if he is not evil. Just a party guy.
Selesnya is the odd one. They are in theory good, but they philosophy does disregard the individual, to the point of sacrifice for the greater good. Would be a great unexpected villain ''good'' organization.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/660286-boros-alignment-charts
Lol no. Neither the Boros nor Azorius are "good" on a regular basis, and the Dimir don't really resort to Lawful methods beyond careful planning.
That's an accurate description for the most part.
Azorius: Lawful Good (The law makers, they can't see them selves as anything but lawful good)
Boros: Chaotic Good (They enforce the law, and sometimes bring the smack down to random evil doers)
Selesnya: Neutral Good (Their version of good isn't widely recgonized as they abandon the self in favor of the community)
Orzhov: Lawful Evil (They are trying to screw you with the law)
Izzet: Chaotic Neutral (Doesn't give a damn about whats going on outside their own laboratories)
Golgari: True Neutral (Out of all the guilds they most just want to be left alone, they lean towards evil but mostly because of their view of death)
Simic: Lawful Neutral (They want to do their own thing like the other Neutral Guilds but also want to work in society)
Gruul: Neutral Evil (They hate the establishment but don't really have a problem with others in general)
Rakdos: Chaotic Evil (They live for just the moment, no consequences, no hesitation, no regrets)
Dimir: Doesn't nicely fit due to falling somewhere around Chaotic and Neutral Evil while seeming to be Lawful
A quick point I simply read the wiki page on alignments and most seem to fit the guilds almost verbatim, with the biggest exceptions being Simic and Dimir who don't fit very nicely where you expect their alignemnts. Simic because I shoehorned them into Lawful Neutral(no one seems to fit here) when they seem to want to be True Neutral, but they fit there much better than the Golgari. Dimir doesn't fit as their main point is secrecy and deception and there is no alignment for that but they are squarely evil.
Its also really difficult to give an alignment to an organization. What does that mean? The alignment of the leadership? The alignment of the average member? The alignment implied by the goals? Like the average Rakdos member is evidently more insane than evil (even Rakdos himself actually) but the Bloodwitches were pretty evil.
Some of the guilds have changed significantly over time as well. The Vigean Simic were Neutral Evil while the Zeganian Simic are more True Neutral (the principles Upwelling and Holdfast really make it a bit weird to place them on the Law/Chaos axis).
Whoa Razi, Borborygmos, Mat'Selesnya(Chorus of the Conclave if you don't count her as the actual leader), Niv-Mizzet, The Ghost Council. None of these leaders were trying to take over the plane. Sure Mat'Selesnya's guild was used by Savra to further her own plans of planer domination but that was with out their knowledge. So only half the guilds were trying to take over the plane, while the other half we're trying to stop them, not caring, or being unwitting pawns.
The chorus had been secretly enchanting the rest of Ravnica into a trace to join Selesnya and then the chorus was were killed by a lynch mob, which is why Selesnya fell apart until Trostani took over.
To be fair you could argue that the The Ghost Council has been plotting to take over the plane since before Ravnica 1.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
That's not Chaotic Good. At best that's Lawful Good (enforcing the Law), at worst that's Lawful Evil.
Considering that a large amount of them did want a police state in the original trilogy, and Aurelia has taken them to a more openly aggressive and independent direction, I wager that "Chaotic Good" is still not the organisation's main alignment besides a few cells at most.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Weren't Razia and the Bloodwitches planning to use Rakdos as a weapon to wipe out the other Guildmasters?
The goal of the Gruul (and by extension Borborygmos) is to destroy civilization on Ravnica and the rest of the guilds along with it.
The only way you could say that Mat'Selesnya isn't trying to take over Ravnica is to argue that Mat'Selesnta was succeeding.
Okay true, but he did try to take over in RTR. It's why he uncovered the maze.
They might not have any grand schemes like Momir Vig but they're definitely bent on dominating Ravnica.
And since when taking over the world makes you evil ? Some good characters might take over the world in order to establish a better life for everyone.
Mat'Selesnya was casting mass Calm Emotions, which is a signature spell for Good clerics.
That's...certainly one way of looking at it.
So, you'd end up with some very strange "D&D alignments" of course. Like "Lawful Chaotic" and so on...
It doesn't neatly lign up, but that has been my take on it, since whenever.
edit: Not so much the guilds, per se, but the actual colours. Just thought it might be somehow relevant anyway.
Yeah, that's definitely the easiest way to fit the colors into D&D's alignment system if you really have to. Although White is at least as Lawful as Blue. Morality is harder. White has a lot of qualities that make it easy to be Good but its difficult to simply equate White with Good.