I don't think Liesa was at any point implied to be evil. Not only does her commander bio confirm the benevolence of her motives but even back in SOI it was clear Avacyn was always iffy and in this case possibly in the wrong.
I don't think Liesa was at any point implied to be evil. Not only does her commander bio confirm the benevolence of her motives but even back in SOI it was clear Avacyn was always iffy and in this case possibly in the wrong.
I dunno why but these Innistrad stories seem kinda Campy so far.
I think it’s due to the passing and lack of depth to some of the wider storytelling elements.
Everyone has heard of or knows one another already. Character knowledge or motivations are sometimes left unexplained or vague.
it’s like the unfinished sketch of visuals/scenes meant for a movie (or Netflix show…) to flesh out more fully with derper dialogue, combat and world building.
Yeah, exactly espressed. But this is the same persisting problem since the stories "restarted" with Zendikar Rising, and the main story is always crammed up into about six episodes.
Kaldheim: Big battles happening offscreen or just seen in passing.
Strixhaven: Big time jumps.
But this is all the same - pacing and shallowness problems, just in different forms.
The main stories suffer from several major problems.
1. New Planes central story should not star the Planeswalkers, because the plane gets eclipsed during its introduction by Planeswalker Drama.
2. The side stories keep being better then the main story. Better writing, more interesting characters, and feel more tied to the people of the plane instead of tourists. Many of these side stories could have been blown up into trilogies. In the main stories they plane feels like a mere back drop for Planeswalker conflict, the side stories usually don't suffer from this and midnight hunt's story doesn't either, as it's centrally focuses on Arlinn whose native to the plane. The other planeswalkers are largely MINOR characters which helps the story.
3. The main Tovalar is a green character who doesn't understand basically ecology. If there is no sun and there is no plant life and without plant life all the stuff Werewolves hunt does and Innistrad becomes barren and lifeless leaving werewolves nothing to hunt, with only starvation to look forward too.
Looks likes all those wanting the other archangels to be reborn/return will be disappointed.
let me put it this way
is liesa evil from the demons/revenge thirsty from her death…… not even close it looks like she severely regretted doing that and even saved a human and killed the demon she made the deal with. (Well not kill more like prevent him from resurrecting at all)
I smell a easy redemption arch for her and also reunited with Sigarda and helping her and the Gatewatch/Arllin and somewhat sorin to stop Olivia and her wedding in crimson vow.
I definitely see her helping in Crimson Vow, but less of a redemption arc. I don't think she really was shown to need redeeming in the first place. She did something Avacyn didn't like, but Avacyn was not infallible, Avacyn was blinded by the drive to wipe out the darkness without compromise, Leisa had the same goal of bringing goodness, she just tried to be smarter about it.
yep I see that anyway May we will also get this algli as a card as well.
I dunno why but these Innistrad stories seem kinda Campy so far.
I think it’s due to the passing and lack of depth to some of the wider storytelling elements.
Everyone has heard of or knows one another already. Character knowledge or motivations are sometimes left unexplained or vague.
it’s like the unfinished sketch of visuals/scenes meant for a movie (or Netflix show…) to flesh out more fully with derper dialogue, combat and world building.
Yeah, exactly espressed. But this is the same persisting problem since the stories "restarted" with Zendikar Rising, and the main story is always crammed up into about six episodes.
Kaldheim: Big battles happening offscreen or just seen in passing.
Strixhaven: Big time jumps.
But this is all the same - pacing and shallowness problems, just in different forms.
The main stories suffer from several major problems.
1. New Planes central story should not star the Planeswalkers, because the plane gets eclipsed during its introduction by Planeswalker Drama.
2. The side stories keep being better then the main story. Better writing, more interesting characters, and feel more tied to the people of the plane instead of tourists. Many of these side stories could have been blown up into trilogies. In the main stories they plane feels like a mere back drop for Planeswalker conflict, the side stories usually don't suffer from this and midnight hunt's story doesn't either, as it's centrally focuses on Arlinn whose native to the plane. The other planeswalkers are largely MINOR characters which helps the story.
3. The main Tovalar is a green character who doesn't understand basically ecology. If there is no sun and there is no plant life and without plant life all the stuff Werewolves hunt does and Innistrad becomes barren and lifeless leaving werewolves nothing to hunt, with only starvation to look forward too.
He's way more Red Black then Red Green.
Nope, he's red/green. Green is all about embrassing your basic instincts, regardless of how sane they are. The Atarka from Tarkir are also green yet their dragon lords are outright stated to be a threat to the life on all of the plane since their hunger is neverending.
In the planeswalker's guide, there's paragraph titled "AVACYN'S COLLAR, THE SYMBOL OF HER CHURCH". I think they are in on the meme.
I do not see this as a meme. I see the planeswalker guide as a hint. For me, its gives us the clue what will happen at the end of the third Innistrad block, at least from the angelic point of view. I think, Avacyn will return at the end of the block, the righteous and benevolent Avacyn I love so much. But I think she will be less powerful than in AVR and she will no longer be Sorins slave. The first clue for me that Avacyn is still floating around was double masters. In the flavour text of her box topper version they wrote that she lives on in the minds of the people, in her true benevolent and pure nature. The repair of Avacyns symbols are another clue. Normally it would have been logical to create a Sigardian church and gave it new symbols, but they restored the old Avacynian symbols as good as they could, because she still offers the people of Innistrad hope. The planeswalkers guide also mentions Sigarda and Avacyn. Sigarda did not like Avacyn because Avacyn killed Liesa. But Sigarda alone is not strong enough to prevent that Innistrad will be thrown into eternal darkness. So she buys the world enough time setting up for Avacyns resurrection. Another clue is Arlinns behaviour in Markov Manor. She still prays to Avacyn - even though everyone thinks she is lost forever. The next clue is the story about Liesas return. Liesa felt like an outsider among the angels, but now she found a human worshipper with Algli and she feels good. And the word hope is mentioned more than once in this story. And hope on Innistrad has only one name, Avacyn. I guess that will help her to work closer together with the other angels in the future or she will understand Avacyn better. I think Liesa will meet with Sigarda and at the end the two will make the desicion to work closer together with Avacyn in the future. I guess Avacyn will return somehow to the living through a pagan ritual and with the help of all the positive memories and all the believe her former worshippers still have. Avacyn´s church will be reunited under the banner of the three angels Avacyn, Sigarda and Liesa, thats my theory.
While not outside possibility, I sincierily hope not. It'd destroy the impact her death in SOI had. I hope both Sigarda and Liesa live, ideally in a not-unified church to show their ideological oppositions.
I personally hope we'll get new blue and red "arch" angels, but yeah, let dead characters stay dead.
Liesa is a special case here, because she was already dead when we first learned about her, so it's not like any event is being undone with her resurrection.
In the planeswalker's guide, there's paragraph titled "AVACYN'S COLLAR, THE SYMBOL OF HER CHURCH". I think they are in on the meme.
I do not see this as a meme. I see the planeswalker guide as a hint. For me, its gives us the clue what will happen at the end of the third Innistrad block, at least from the angelic point of view. I think, Avacyn will return at the end of the block, the righteous and benevolent Avacyn I love so much. But I think she will be less powerful than in AVR and she will no longer be Sorins slave. The first clue for me that Avacyn is still floating around was double masters. In the flavour text of her box topper version they wrote that she lives on in the minds of the people, in her true benevolent and pure nature. The repair of Avacyns symbols are another clue. Normally it would have been logical to create a Sigardian church and gave it new symbols, but they restored the old Avacynian symbols as good as they could, because she still offers the people of Innistrad hope. The planeswalkers guide also mentions Sigarda and Avacyn. Sigarda did not like Avacyn because Avacyn killed Liesa. But Sigarda alone is not strong enough to prevent that Innistrad will be thrown into eternal darkness. So she buys the world enough time setting up for Avacyns resurrection. Another clue is Arlinns behaviour in Markov Manor. She still prays to Avacyn - even though everyone thinks she is lost forever. The next clue is the story about Liesas return. Liesa felt like an outsider among the angels, but now she found a human worshipper with Algli and she feels good. And the word hope is mentioned more than once in this story. And hope on Innistrad has only one name, Avacyn. I guess that will help her to work closer together with the other angels in the future or she will understand Avacyn better. I think Liesa will meet with Sigarda and at the end the two will make the desicion to work closer together with Avacyn in the future. I guess Avacyn will return somehow to the living through a pagan ritual and with the help of all the positive memories and all the believe her former worshippers still have. Avacyn´s church will be reunited under the banner of the three angels Avacyn, Sigarda and Liesa, thats my theory.
I have a musing/hope that they are going to bring her back and give her a spark. I know that Angels aren't supposed to have a spark but they've already made exceptions for a golem, a demon, and a devil. My theory is if they do bring her back in this way it'll be tied to the moon. When the moon is full it returns her to Innistrad and when it's not it will actually repel her from the plane so that she's there when they need her most but still gives the monsters a fighting chance. Or Emerakul's influence still affects her and she can't stay on the plane very long before madness sets in and she has to leave every now and then. I know people think it'll lessen the impact of the SOI story but I found the deaths of Avacyn, Gisela, and Bruna as kind of insulting and pointless but I think that's more of a me thing.
Private Mod Note
():
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Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
I know people think it'll lessen the impact of the SOI story but I found the deaths of Avacyn, Gisela, and Bruna as kind of insulting and pointless but I think that's more of a me thing.
Insulting and pointless? I don't get why some people take the deaths of fictional characters so personally.
Personally I believe that you can't have a (good) story with stakes but without consequences, a game wizards wants to play too often. The guildpact got dissolved and most of the guilds dismantled by civilian uprisings? Whoops it's all back! Zendikar got almost destroyed by the Eldrazi? Well, it's entirely undone on the next revisit. The only plane that didn't get a get-out-of-jail-for-free ticket was Mirrodin, but to be fair that's because the plane was concepted as a return to phyrexia, something that simply wasn't realized on the first visit.
Nahiri summoned the most powerful of the eldrazi titan trio to Innistrad, because she wanted to lay the plane to waste and get at Sorin. Considering it all, the death of most of the archangels and the destruction of the plane's capital, the consequences to Innistrad are okay. Lasting, noticeable damage without completely disfiguring the plane beyond recognition. All things considered, I think it's in a good spot, narratively speaking. Shadows over Innistrad feels like it happened. Battle for Zendikar didn't.
Really, the problem isn't Wizards being too destructive or not destructive enough. The problem is that they want to have their cake and eat it too. Have epic storylines with the stakiest of stakes, but none of the consequences. We got a total killcount of 3 during War of the Spark, one of which happened offscreen (I'm not considering the trailers on-screen), one of which was a villain (does that even count as a killcount then?) and one of which sacrificed himself and wasn't, yknow, killed. What a narrative disaster. Now people are quick to jump to "you're just bloodthirsty, you monster", but the point is that it wasn't me who forced Wizards to have an epic war of planeswalkers. But if they want to do that, and don't do it right, then I am going to call them out on that.
TL;DR: The deaths of the archangels wasn't pointless and insulting. In fact, Innistrad was one of the better handled "staked" storylines in Magic's history, a balanced compromise between lasting damage and keeping the plane intact for future visits.
one of which happened offscreen (I'm not considering the trailers on-screen),
Deck during the War of the Novel during his in his pov.
TL;DR: The deaths of the archangels wasn't pointless and insulting. In fact, Innistrad was one of the better handled "staked" storylines in Magic's history, a balanced compromise between lasting damage and keeping the plane intact for future visits.
There is also the fact with Avacyn they wrote themselves in a conner with no conflict able to happen meaningfully with her around, since at the time retuning to planes wasn't much of an idea for them yet. All future Innistrad stories would have to have whatever conflict either be somehow more powerful than Avacyn or have some reason she can't help her. Having Sigarda and the witches (and now reborn Liesa) helps make the conflict more even with maybe the monster a bit more on the winning side since horror.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I know people think it'll lessen the impact of the SOI story but I found the deaths of Avacyn, Gisela, and Bruna as kind of insulting and pointless but I think that's more of a me thing.
Insulting and pointless? I don't get why some people take the deaths of fictional characters so personally.
Personally I believe that you can't have a (good) story with stakes but without consequences, a game wizards wants to play too often. The guildpact got dissolved and most of the guilds dismantled by civilian uprisings? Whoops it's all back! Zendikar got almost destroyed by the Eldrazi? Well, it's entirely undone on the next revisit. The only plane that didn't get a get-out-of-jail-for-free ticket was Mirrodin, but to be fair that's because the plane was concepted as a return to phyrexia, something that simply wasn't realized on the first visit.
Nahiri summoned the most powerful of the eldrazi titan trio to Innistrad, because she wanted to lay the plane to waste and get at Sorin. Considering it all, the death of most of the archangels and the destruction of the plane's capital, the consequences to Innistrad are okay. Lasting, noticeable damage without completely disfiguring the plane beyond recognition. All things considered, I think it's in a good spot, narratively speaking. Shadows over Innistrad feels like it happened. Battle for Zendikar didn't.
Really, the problem isn't Wizards being too destructive or not destructive enough. The problem is that they want to have their cake and eat it too. Have epic storylines with the stakiest of stakes, but none of the consequences. We got a total killcount of 3 during War of the Spark, one of which happened offscreen (I'm not considering the trailers on-screen), one of which was a villain (does that even count as a killcount then?) and one of which sacrificed himself and wasn't, yknow, killed. What a narrative disaster. Now people are quick to jump to "you're just bloodthirsty, you monster", but the point is that it wasn't me who forced Wizards to have an epic war of planeswalkers. But if they want to do that, and don't do it right, then I am going to call them out on that.
TL;DR: The deaths of the archangels wasn't pointless and insulting. In fact, Innistrad was one of the better handled "staked" storylines in Magic's history, a balanced compromise between lasting damage and keeping the plane intact for future visits.
The archangels deaths had no barring on the plot though and there transformation really wasn’t necessary either. Bruna, Gisela, and Sigerda were all active during avacyns confinement in the helvault and the plane was still in disaster. To my knowledge there are no eldrazi remnant on the plane so brissela would have been gone regardless of whether they were killed or not. The only difference between now and the dark ascension era of Innistrad is the moon. Avacyns death was just a plot device to get the plane back to square one just as ulamogs and kozileks were and plenty people were angry over that. I enjoy the monsters of Innistrad but I feel the lore of avacyn made for an interesting backdrop against it which I don’t really get with sigarda.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
The archangels deaths had no barring on the plot though and there transformation really wasn’t necessary either. Bruna, Gisela, and Sigerda were all active during avacyns confinement in the helvault and the plane was still in disaster. To my knowledge there are no eldrazi remnant on the plane so brissela would have been gone regardless of whether they were killed or not.
The point of the archangels getting corrupted was to show why they couldn't help as much as Avacyn was going mad and why it was going bad for humans.
The only difference between now and the dark ascension era of Innistrad is the moon.
Not really, the vampires and werewolves where nearly wiped out by Emrakul, with only 2 howls packs left (and Tolovars is brand new) and 3/4 vampires families are in ruin as well as most of the demons on the plane been eldrazi'd and now gone as well.
Avacyns death was just a plot device to get the plane back to square one just as ulamogs and kozileks were and plenty people were angry over that. I enjoy the monsters of Innistrad but I feel the lore of avacyn made for an interesting backdrop against it which I don’t really get with sigarda.
And Avacyn was originally just a plot device to have the horror world get a happy ending. If you wanna really be nitpicky everything in writing is a plot device and it all depends on how the storyteller uses them.
Also the reason people where upset about Ulamog and Kozilek was how built up the eldrazi where and feeling like that their deaths wasn't well handled/believable vs Sorin having built in a way for him to unmake Avacyn.
Honesty a lot of this seems to be you confusing personal feeling and what is/isn't good writing.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
"Not plot relevant"? The whole deal with SOI was that the angels went cuckoo for some reason and that we get to see them from the perspective of their purging targets. Avacyn's corruption and fall was positively necessary for the story to work as it did.
And personally, I find Sigarda much more interesting than the angel robot doll. She's a veteran from the big bang that saw cilizations rise and fall, saw the rise of this strange angel, saw her sisters die one by one and still endures.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It was a nice little bit, glad to see them are still around.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
watch edgar kill olivia and edgar was the real target instead of oliva
i think edgar is up to something
There's art already revealed with the card name being "Edgar, Charmed Groom"; if Edgar does kill Olivia by the end of the Crimson Vow story, he sure won't even attempt to do so for a fair few episodes.
Blood tithe or not, humans couldn't possibly survive without the Innistrad planet's host star. No photosynthesis means no food. There may be magic, but there's nature as well. The vampires are limited by far more than just human gestation time and numbers, or preying by other monsters.
Seems we are finally getting Runo Stromkirk. Also, there is new card for Anje Falkenrath and a progenitor of a new, Maurer, bloodline (who is, as I collected a character from the Plane Shift DnD/Magic crossovers.
ATTACHMENTS
runo
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Florian Voldaren was a vampire with a vision. Tired of attacking humans for their blood, Florian realized things would be much simpler if the humans freely gave it away. A master of charm magic, Florian put his theory to the test by enchanting a small township still recovering from The Travails. He then politely requested each citizen make a weekly offering of blood—not enough to kill them, but more than enough to feed Florian and his companions. Always seeking to impress, Florian is eager to share this breakthrough with his progenitor Olivia.
It's possible that Olivia Voldaren has already heard Florian's proposition - and with all those blood tithes, might actually be following it. Imagine her revealing that to all the doomsayers!
...And maybe Sorin will grudgingly go along with this because that means the vampires of Innistrad will finally know restraint.
yea i see that now
so clearly avacyn judged a book by it's ccover
The main stories suffer from several major problems.
1. New Planes central story should not star the Planeswalkers, because the plane gets eclipsed during its introduction by Planeswalker Drama.
2. The side stories keep being better then the main story. Better writing, more interesting characters, and feel more tied to the people of the plane instead of tourists. Many of these side stories could have been blown up into trilogies. In the main stories they plane feels like a mere back drop for Planeswalker conflict, the side stories usually don't suffer from this and midnight hunt's story doesn't either, as it's centrally focuses on Arlinn whose native to the plane. The other planeswalkers are largely MINOR characters which helps the story.
3. The main Tovalar is a green character who doesn't understand basically ecology. If there is no sun and there is no plant life and without plant life all the stuff Werewolves hunt does and Innistrad becomes barren and lifeless leaving werewolves nothing to hunt, with only starvation to look forward too.
He's way more Red Black then Red Green.
yep I see that anyway May we will also get this algli as a card as well.
Nope, he's red/green. Green is all about embrassing your basic instincts, regardless of how sane they are. The Atarka from Tarkir are also green yet their dragon lords are outright stated to be a threat to the life on all of the plane since their hunger is neverending.
I do not see this as a meme. I see the planeswalker guide as a hint. For me, its gives us the clue what will happen at the end of the third Innistrad block, at least from the angelic point of view. I think, Avacyn will return at the end of the block, the righteous and benevolent Avacyn I love so much. But I think she will be less powerful than in AVR and she will no longer be Sorins slave. The first clue for me that Avacyn is still floating around was double masters. In the flavour text of her box topper version they wrote that she lives on in the minds of the people, in her true benevolent and pure nature. The repair of Avacyns symbols are another clue. Normally it would have been logical to create a Sigardian church and gave it new symbols, but they restored the old Avacynian symbols as good as they could, because she still offers the people of Innistrad hope. The planeswalkers guide also mentions Sigarda and Avacyn. Sigarda did not like Avacyn because Avacyn killed Liesa. But Sigarda alone is not strong enough to prevent that Innistrad will be thrown into eternal darkness. So she buys the world enough time setting up for Avacyns resurrection. Another clue is Arlinns behaviour in Markov Manor. She still prays to Avacyn - even though everyone thinks she is lost forever. The next clue is the story about Liesas return. Liesa felt like an outsider among the angels, but now she found a human worshipper with Algli and she feels good. And the word hope is mentioned more than once in this story. And hope on Innistrad has only one name, Avacyn. I guess that will help her to work closer together with the other angels in the future or she will understand Avacyn better. I think Liesa will meet with Sigarda and at the end the two will make the desicion to work closer together with Avacyn in the future. I guess Avacyn will return somehow to the living through a pagan ritual and with the help of all the positive memories and all the believe her former worshippers still have. Avacyn´s church will be reunited under the banner of the three angels Avacyn, Sigarda and Liesa, thats my theory.
Liesa is a special case here, because she was already dead when we first learned about her, so it's not like any event is being undone with her resurrection.
I have a musing/hope that they are going to bring her back and give her a spark. I know that Angels aren't supposed to have a spark but they've already made exceptions for a golem, a demon, and a devil. My theory is if they do bring her back in this way it'll be tied to the moon. When the moon is full it returns her to Innistrad and when it's not it will actually repel her from the plane so that she's there when they need her most but still gives the monsters a fighting chance. Or Emerakul's influence still affects her and she can't stay on the plane very long before madness sets in and she has to leave every now and then. I know people think it'll lessen the impact of the SOI story but I found the deaths of Avacyn, Gisela, and Bruna as kind of insulting and pointless but I think that's more of a me thing.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Insulting and pointless? I don't get why some people take the deaths of fictional characters so personally.
Personally I believe that you can't have a (good) story with stakes but without consequences, a game wizards wants to play too often. The guildpact got dissolved and most of the guilds dismantled by civilian uprisings? Whoops it's all back! Zendikar got almost destroyed by the Eldrazi? Well, it's entirely undone on the next revisit. The only plane that didn't get a get-out-of-jail-for-free ticket was Mirrodin, but to be fair that's because the plane was concepted as a return to phyrexia, something that simply wasn't realized on the first visit.
Nahiri summoned the most powerful of the eldrazi titan trio to Innistrad, because she wanted to lay the plane to waste and get at Sorin. Considering it all, the death of most of the archangels and the destruction of the plane's capital, the consequences to Innistrad are okay. Lasting, noticeable damage without completely disfiguring the plane beyond recognition. All things considered, I think it's in a good spot, narratively speaking. Shadows over Innistrad feels like it happened. Battle for Zendikar didn't.
Really, the problem isn't Wizards being too destructive or not destructive enough. The problem is that they want to have their cake and eat it too. Have epic storylines with the stakiest of stakes, but none of the consequences. We got a total killcount of 3 during War of the Spark, one of which happened offscreen (I'm not considering the trailers on-screen), one of which was a villain (does that even count as a killcount then?) and one of which sacrificed himself and wasn't, yknow, killed. What a narrative disaster. Now people are quick to jump to "you're just bloodthirsty, you monster", but the point is that it wasn't me who forced Wizards to have an epic war of planeswalkers. But if they want to do that, and don't do it right, then I am going to call them out on that.
TL;DR: The deaths of the archangels wasn't pointless and insulting. In fact, Innistrad was one of the better handled "staked" storylines in Magic's history, a balanced compromise between lasting damage and keeping the plane intact for future visits.
Deck during the War of the Novel during his in his pov.
There is also the fact with Avacyn they wrote themselves in a conner with no conflict able to happen meaningfully with her around, since at the time retuning to planes wasn't much of an idea for them yet. All future Innistrad stories would have to have whatever conflict either be somehow more powerful than Avacyn or have some reason she can't help her. Having Sigarda and the witches (and now reborn Liesa) helps make the conflict more even with maybe the monster a bit more on the winning side since horror.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Ah, fair. Still, not having a card in the set still made Dack's death feel kind of off-screeny.
The archangels deaths had no barring on the plot though and there transformation really wasn’t necessary either. Bruna, Gisela, and Sigerda were all active during avacyns confinement in the helvault and the plane was still in disaster. To my knowledge there are no eldrazi remnant on the plane so brissela would have been gone regardless of whether they were killed or not. The only difference between now and the dark ascension era of Innistrad is the moon. Avacyns death was just a plot device to get the plane back to square one just as ulamogs and kozileks were and plenty people were angry over that. I enjoy the monsters of Innistrad but I feel the lore of avacyn made for an interesting backdrop against it which I don’t really get with sigarda.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
The point of the archangels getting corrupted was to show why they couldn't help as much as Avacyn was going mad and why it was going bad for humans.
Not really, the vampires and werewolves where nearly wiped out by Emrakul, with only 2 howls packs left (and Tolovars is brand new) and 3/4 vampires families are in ruin as well as most of the demons on the plane been eldrazi'd and now gone as well.
And Avacyn was originally just a plot device to have the horror world get a happy ending. If you wanna really be nitpicky everything in writing is a plot device and it all depends on how the storyteller uses them.
Also the reason people where upset about Ulamog and Kozilek was how built up the eldrazi where and feeling like that their deaths wasn't well handled/believable vs Sorin having built in a way for him to unmake Avacyn.
Honesty a lot of this seems to be you confusing personal feeling and what is/isn't good writing.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And personally, I find Sigarda much more interesting than the angel robot doll. She's a veteran from the big bang that saw cilizations rise and fall, saw the rise of this strange angel, saw her sisters die one by one and still endures.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/episode-1-tithes-and-invitations-2021-10-28
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The lucky lady isn’t Nissa, but she’ll do!
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
watch edgar kill olivia and edgar was the real target instead of oliva
i think edgar is up to something
It was a nice little bit, glad to see them are still around.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
There's art already revealed with the card name being "Edgar, Charmed Groom"; if Edgar does kill Olivia by the end of the Crimson Vow story, he sure won't even attempt to do so for a fair few episodes.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/edge-world-2021-10-29
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It's possible that Olivia Voldaren has already heard Florian's proposition - and with all those blood tithes, might actually be following it. Imagine her revealing that to all the doomsayers!
...And maybe Sorin will grudgingly go along with this because that means the vampires of Innistrad will finally know restraint.