“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
-Wondering if the Ulamog thing in the swamp will be a statue, or an offspring that is now dormant.
-The angel is using some of Kozilek bismuth on her weapon.
-Could the ruin in the sky be another look at Emeria?
-Seagate more or less rebuild.
What I'm wondering is, how much of the Roil will be left on Zendikar, after the Eldrazi are gone. I also think it is strange that we got Jace her, I know the canon status of the two Ravnica novels is questionable, but I thought we would see him on Vryn and Kiora instead in this set, the fill out the native trio. Regardless it is nice to see "adventure" Jace, as a contrast to his last two visits to the plane.
-Wondering if the Ulamog thing in the swamp will be a statue, or an offspring, that is now dormant.
-The angel is using some of Kozilek bismuth on her weapon.
-Could the ruin in the sky be another look at Emeria?
-Seagate more or less rebuild.
What I'm wondering is, how much of the Roil will be left on Zendikar, after the Eldrazi are gone. I also think it is strange that we got Jace her, I know the canon status of the two Ravnica novels is questionable, but I thought we would see him on Vryn and Kiora instead in this set, the fill out the native trio. Regardless it is nice to see "adventure" Jace, as a contrast to his last two visits to the plane.
I also expected Jace to be heading to Vryn and Kiora to be here, using Thassa's Bident to rebuild the seas and coastal regions of Zendikar. She headed back to Zendikar after War of the Spark as well.
I admire Adventure Jace regardless, giving me those Ixalan vibes I loved. But I do feel Kiora should have been here instead, despite Jace being my favorite character.
The remnants of Ulamog after being blown apart with moss and vegetation growth is pretty cool. Future generations may mistake it for a statue of a god, but it was once living.
IIRC The second Chandra comic was gonna feature Jace and her on Alara, might have lost a story connection there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Nahiri might still be the main villain and I love that
She is very much the "whatever it takes for the greater good*" kinda old walker and I think it makes perfect sense for her character while still keeping to her ore heroic origins.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The fact that the kor also used to be a tyrannical empire according to that article endears this set a lot to me. Funny, with the original block having a Black aligned "hero" and this one having plenty of evil!White.
Yeah, it's looking like the theory I proposed regarding the Ancients is quite wrong but I'm ok with that. I'm just glad we are getting serialized fiction again, and Norse set in the future.
Should we set up a new thread to talk about the announcement stream in general?
Edit: I just gotta say it, there's been a little too much course correction in the lore I think in terms of representing a vibrant, recovered Zendikar. I know the MtG franchise has 'magic' to handwave the story to be what they want it to be but in my opinion there is not enough shade for the plot lamp they are lighting here.
To be fair, Zendikar is abundant in wild mana. We had indications with the Khlani flower sprouts last time that Zendikar was determined to heal, even with the Eldrazi still present. I prefer it to be Adventure World Zendikar again, with minor Eldrazi scars. Heck, you abandon a city for 10 years and nature claims it. And our world isn't even magical!
Edit: first story up tomorrow, we will see stories on friday as well that will be more focused on not the main story!
Honestly, this is the most exciting news since the war of the spark trailer. Are there still going to be books alongside the online stories or is it online stories only?
The fact that the kor also used to be a tyrannical empire according to that article endears this set a lot to me. Funny, with the original block having a Black aligned "hero" and this one having plenty of evil!White.
Personally I always assumed the Kor were a naturally nomadic race, due to the way we've seen them in Rath and Zendikar before. But I know that was just my headcanon, so I can't be too angry at WotC. (Just a little bit angry, giving each race some more definition beyond "they have different visuals" would go a long way to make them feel less like human actors and more like their own things.)
Edit: I just gotta say it, there's been a little too much course correction in the lore I think in terms of representing a vibrant, recovered Zendikar. I know the MtG franchise has 'magic' to handwave the story to be what they want it to be but in my opinion there is not enough shade for the plot lamp they are lighting here.
This is what annoys me too. They didn't have to make it all about how Zendikar reclaims the wastes, but having some visual theme would go a long way to convey Zendikar healing. Similar to how they made Guilds of Ravnica set in autumn to make it look different from the previous two incarnations, they could have given Zendikar a similar treatment. Keep the world the same, but give it a distinct visual feel. They could have, for example, taken a book from pyrophilic forests on earth. Maybe make more-than-usual use of certain plants that are known to repopulate devastated areas quickly, like ferns. There was so much they could have done but ignoring BfZ altogether is exactly the kind of thing I was afraid they'd do when they announced no Eldrazi whatsoever in this block.
Just saw the trailer for the first time and wow, those faces are deep in the uncanny valley. The lip sync is also all over the place.
What interests me most at this point from a Vorthos/flavor perspective is the way they're going to handle the plane post-Eldrazi. We're only here for one set so they can't do all that much, and right now it looks like Zendikar is just going to be the fun adventure land backdrop to a start (?) of a new, larger storyline involving Nahiri. They might do more with it, but I'm not exaclty optimistic (see below).
This is what annoys me too. They didn't have to make it all about how Zendikar reclaims the wastes, but having some visual theme would go a long way to convey Zendikar healing. Similar to how they made Guilds of Ravnica set in autumn to make it look different from the previous two incarnations, they could have given Zendikar a similar treatment. Keep the world the same, but give it a distinct visual feel.
Yes, this is the main thing that's bothering me too right now. I already posted a comment about it here this morning so I'm not going to repeat myself too much, but whenever they do these things it really feels like they're just ignoring the previous set out of pure convenience.
For the longest time, I 've had the impression that Wizards is good ad subtle storytelling that cleverly uses visual themes and elements, but maybe I'm just wearing nostalgia goggles. Idk. I thnk my main point is that they should take more responsibility for story and worldbuilding decisions they've made in the past. "Welllll something something powerful mana/magic" gets annoying after a while.
Edit: Just read the flavor article and the rebuilding of Sea Gate is another instance of "fast-forward worldbuilding". Lots of groups having their own ideas for the place could've been an interesting thing to explore, but instead we only get the finished, shiny product.
My thoughts (and not a full summary and spoilers):
-Nahiri is really giving off old walker energy and as I believe she has only been out of the helvault for a year or two makes sense she still has that mind set.
-So we have our War of the Spark and SoI nod showing Nissa and Nahiri know each other. And it seems Nahiri knew Nissa set them free from the plane.
-That all said I do like the bond of home Nissa and Nahiri share, I don't think we got that much with Kiora and Nissa and it nice as all these walkers did care about Zendikar and tried to stop the eldrazi.
-I was waiting to bring it up some up it touched in the story the roil is still around despite the eldrazi being gone and this is what is driving Nahiri to action.
-I see the red in Nahiri a lot with her guilt and pride leading her to act out in more emotional state and might be a side effect of the helvault trauma.
-Hmmph so whats the truth Nissa did you like Chandra?
- I already see the "friendship" and the conflict with Nissa "voice of the soul of zendikar" and Nahiri "protector of Zendikar" and love it. This the kinda interaction I wanted from these characters.
-So we have Nissa going to Jace for help and thats how he ends up on the plane. We do know that Nissa did end up leaving again for sure at the end of Forsaken.
-So Nissa is acting like Gideon and thus add B?
Overall it was soild, a bit too much characters talking over each other but I do feel like the path each character is going seem to be in character for what we know of them and recent story evens.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It's also wild how the story starts with someone falling and screaming "No! NO!". As if there was any chance whatsoever that Nahiri would die in the first few paragraphs of the first episode. I forgot how unintentionally funny these online stories could be.
Between Nahiri getting angry at losing a simple race and Nissa's reaction to the plants in the Skyclave and her elemental friend dying, the characters still kind of feel like 12 yos.
Anyway, the conflict as it is introduced here seems to be pretty simplistic: Nahiri wants the MacGuffin that restores Zendikar to the old state she knows, but it comes of the cost of hurting the new, evolved Zendikar. I hope there's a bit more depth to this.
Nahiri's unhinged and highly volatile and Nissa sees elementals as people (which to be fair they sort of are), so I don't see how either reaction is atypically childish.
The race thing makes sense, Nahiri is a old walker who doesn't like to be looked down on and likely embarrassed/upset that a "child" saved her.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
honestly, I couldn't vouch for this story. Nissa and Jace seemed kinda off to me. For example, Nissa and Jace had a good relationship at the conclusion of Forsaken and the funeral for Gids. Why would she be afraid he'd suddenly feel differently? Also, wasn't Jace heading to Vryn?
I just feel like there's no point investing in the story anymore if we can't be confident that past arcs, visuals and lore are in fact canon.
I'd love for Forsaken to no longer be canon but the company needs to say as much and take accountability when there's incongruency. While I'm glad we are getting free, serialized fiction, I'd rather pay a little more for a well-written product than be satisfied with returning to the problems seen in previous free web fiction arcs.
That's not to say it was all bad. The author writes action scenes well enough and the characterization of Nahiri felt right. Some of the tension between Nahiri and Nissa could have been played with more and given greater developement. Nissa *more fully released the Eldrazi upon her homeplane by accident. But Nahiri? Nahiri intentionally condemned an entire plane (Innistrad) to death and madness as vengeance for Sorin's (admittedly) very real mistakes. Nissa and Jace saw this firsthand. Why would they even consider working with such a being and if they did, well, that's an interesting decision to arrive at that deserves its own frame. Throwing Nahiri and Nissa together as quickly as they did sidelines a lot of potentially fascinating developement.
I too rolled my eyes at the hints regarding Chandra. Was it a relationship or not? WotC likes to seem progressive when it suits them. But as soon as they figure it's gonna harm their marketing strategy... (sarcasm) Heaven forbid our Gatewatch leads being queer!
I'll try not to be too damning, as I am just happy we have our online stories back.
But.
I found this story to be somewhat lackluster. Serviceable, but not something I'd want to reread. The character interactions felt forced and rushed and the same goes for some of the plotpoints. How Nissa came to the conclusion that it was the artifact that killed the elemental made no sense. I didn't realize until Nissa accused Nahiri that I got the author's intent. I simply assumed they were just attacked by something new. Also the talk between Nissa and Jace was very inorganic and had strong "I somehow need the two characters to have a little fight, but how?" vibe. Like, why did Jace jump up to get a book once Nissa mentioned the artifact was Kor? There was no question or stated problem yet to be solved. This is not how you write a character who's supposed to be an analytical thinker.
Also they played the stupid "you need to get artifact A in location A to open location B to get artifact B" trope straight, urgh. At least provide some throwaway sentence explaining why whoever placed these artifacts there thought it made sense to do it like this.
Aaaaaaaaanyway, glad the stories are back. Hooray. To end my post with something positive, I like the foreshadowing that Jace has his own plans with the artifact. Sounds like the story will culminate in a classic three-way stand-off.
Oh you know what the trailer beginning must have Been After nahiri found the last key to the orb or when she found the black one of the Inspriction cycle (Inscription of Abundance)
-This will be close in feel to Zendikar 1, an adventure/land matters world
-The 3 walkers will be Jace, Nissa and Nahiri
-Omnath gets W
-No eldrazi! BUT we will still see the after effects of them having been on the world.
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RtsXnvVIk8
We will be getting 9 stories, 5 focusing on the main story line on Wednesdays and 4 "others" on Fridays.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
-Wondering if the Ulamog thing in the swamp will be a statue, or an offspring that is now dormant.
-The angel is using some of Kozilek bismuth on her weapon.
-Could the ruin in the sky be another look at Emeria?
-Seagate more or less rebuild.
What I'm wondering is, how much of the Roil will be left on Zendikar, after the Eldrazi are gone. I also think it is strange that we got Jace her, I know the canon status of the two Ravnica novels is questionable, but I thought we would see him on Vryn and Kiora instead in this set, the fill out the native trio. Regardless it is nice to see "adventure" Jace, as a contrast to his last two visits to the plane.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
I admire Adventure Jace regardless, giving me those Ixalan vibes I loved. But I do feel Kiora should have been here instead, despite Jace being my favorite character.
The remnants of Ulamog after being blown apart with moss and vegetation growth is pretty cool. Future generations may mistake it for a statue of a god, but it was once living.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Also, I don't think that's an actual Eldrazi. Look at the cubes in front. It's an overgrown Eldrazi Monument.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Such a specific name for Nahiri's new epithet.
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Tolgath
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/818665-znr-nahiri-heir-of-the-ancients-becca-scott
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Great_War
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Edit: first story up tomorrow, we will see stories on friday as well that will be more focused on not the main story!
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Nahiri might still be the main villain and I love that
She is very much the "whatever it takes for the greater good*" kinda old walker and I think it makes perfect sense for her character while still keeping to her ore heroic origins.
*what they think is the greater good
EDIT: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/zendikar-things-have-changed-2020-09-01
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Should we set up a new thread to talk about the announcement stream in general?
Edit: I just gotta say it, there's been a little too much course correction in the lore I think in terms of representing a vibrant, recovered Zendikar. I know the MtG franchise has 'magic' to handwave the story to be what they want it to be but in my opinion there is not enough shade for the plot lamp they are lighting here.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Honestly, this is the most exciting news since the war of the spark trailer. Are there still going to be books alongside the online stories or is it online stories only?
Personally I always assumed the Kor were a naturally nomadic race, due to the way we've seen them in Rath and Zendikar before. But I know that was just my headcanon, so I can't be too angry at WotC. (Just a little bit angry, giving each race some more definition beyond "they have different visuals" would go a long way to make them feel less like human actors and more like their own things.)
This is what annoys me too. They didn't have to make it all about how Zendikar reclaims the wastes, but having some visual theme would go a long way to convey Zendikar healing. Similar to how they made Guilds of Ravnica set in autumn to make it look different from the previous two incarnations, they could have given Zendikar a similar treatment. Keep the world the same, but give it a distinct visual feel. They could have, for example, taken a book from pyrophilic forests on earth. Maybe make more-than-usual use of certain plants that are known to repopulate devastated areas quickly, like ferns. There was so much they could have done but ignoring BfZ altogether is exactly the kind of thing I was afraid they'd do when they announced no Eldrazi whatsoever in this block.
What interests me most at this point from a Vorthos/flavor perspective is the way they're going to handle the plane post-Eldrazi. We're only here for one set so they can't do all that much, and right now it looks like Zendikar is just going to be the fun adventure land backdrop to a start (?) of a new, larger storyline involving Nahiri. They might do more with it, but I'm not exaclty optimistic (see below).
Yes, this is the main thing that's bothering me too right now. I already posted a comment about it here this morning so I'm not going to repeat myself too much, but whenever they do these things it really feels like they're just ignoring the previous set out of pure convenience.
For the longest time, I 've had the impression that Wizards is good ad subtle storytelling that cleverly uses visual themes and elements, but maybe I'm just wearing nostalgia goggles. Idk. I thnk my main point is that they should take more responsibility for story and worldbuilding decisions they've made in the past. "Welllll something something powerful mana/magic" gets annoying after a while.
Edit: Just read the flavor article and the rebuilding of Sea Gate is another instance of "fast-forward worldbuilding". Lots of groups having their own ideas for the place could've been an interesting thing to explore, but instead we only get the finished, shiny product.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/episode-1-heart-skyclave-2020-09-02
Good morning everyone and it feels nice to say it looks like "vorthos book club" is back. The author for today and the arc maybe? is A. T. Greenblatt;
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/episode-1-heart-skyclave-2020-09-02
My thoughts (and not a full summary and spoilers):
-Nahiri is really giving off old walker energy and as I believe she has only been out of the helvault for a year or two makes sense she still has that mind set.
-So we have our War of the Spark and SoI nod showing Nissa and Nahiri know each other. And it seems Nahiri knew Nissa set them free from the plane.
-That all said I do like the bond of home Nissa and Nahiri share, I don't think we got that much with Kiora and Nissa and it nice as all these walkers did care about Zendikar and tried to stop the eldrazi.
-I was waiting to bring it up some up it touched in the story the roil is still around despite the eldrazi being gone and this is what is driving Nahiri to action.
-I see the red in Nahiri a lot with her guilt and pride leading her to act out in more emotional state and might be a side effect of the helvault trauma.
-Hmmph so whats the truth Nissa did you like Chandra?
- I already see the "friendship" and the conflict with Nissa "voice of the soul of zendikar" and Nahiri "protector of Zendikar" and love it. This the kinda interaction I wanted from these characters.
-So we have Nissa going to Jace for help and thats how he ends up on the plane. We do know that Nissa did end up leaving again for sure at the end of Forsaken.
-So Nissa is acting like Gideon and thus add B?
Overall it was soild, a bit too much characters talking over each other but I do feel like the path each character is going seem to be in character for what we know of them and recent story evens.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Unfortunately Nissa was annoying as always.
It's also wild how the story starts with someone falling and screaming "No! NO!". As if there was any chance whatsoever that Nahiri would die in the first few paragraphs of the first episode. I forgot how unintentionally funny these online stories could be.
Between Nahiri getting angry at losing a simple race and Nissa's reaction to the plants in the Skyclave and her elemental friend dying, the characters still kind of feel like 12 yos.
Anyway, the conflict as it is introduced here seems to be pretty simplistic: Nahiri wants the MacGuffin that restores Zendikar to the old state she knows, but it comes of the cost of hurting the new, evolved Zendikar. I hope there's a bit more depth to this.
Stop the Roil and have a Peaceful Zendikar.
Makes sense.
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I just feel like there's no point investing in the story anymore if we can't be confident that past arcs, visuals and lore are in fact canon.
I'd love for Forsaken to no longer be canon but the company needs to say as much and take accountability when there's incongruency. While I'm glad we are getting free, serialized fiction, I'd rather pay a little more for a well-written product than be satisfied with returning to the problems seen in previous free web fiction arcs.
That's not to say it was all bad. The author writes action scenes well enough and the characterization of Nahiri felt right. Some of the tension between Nahiri and Nissa could have been played with more and given greater developement. Nissa *more fully released the Eldrazi upon her homeplane by accident. But Nahiri? Nahiri intentionally condemned an entire plane (Innistrad) to death and madness as vengeance for Sorin's (admittedly) very real mistakes. Nissa and Jace saw this firsthand. Why would they even consider working with such a being and if they did, well, that's an interesting decision to arrive at that deserves its own frame. Throwing Nahiri and Nissa together as quickly as they did sidelines a lot of potentially fascinating developement.
I too rolled my eyes at the hints regarding Chandra. Was it a relationship or not? WotC likes to seem progressive when it suits them. But as soon as they figure it's gonna harm their marketing strategy... (sarcasm) Heaven forbid our Gatewatch leads being queer!
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
But.
I found this story to be somewhat lackluster. Serviceable, but not something I'd want to reread. The character interactions felt forced and rushed and the same goes for some of the plotpoints. How Nissa came to the conclusion that it was the artifact that killed the elemental made no sense. I didn't realize until Nissa accused Nahiri that I got the author's intent. I simply assumed they were just attacked by something new. Also the talk between Nissa and Jace was very inorganic and had strong "I somehow need the two characters to have a little fight, but how?" vibe. Like, why did Jace jump up to get a book once Nissa mentioned the artifact was Kor? There was no question or stated problem yet to be solved. This is not how you write a character who's supposed to be an analytical thinker.
Also they played the stupid "you need to get artifact A in location A to open location B to get artifact B" trope straight, urgh. At least provide some throwaway sentence explaining why whoever placed these artifacts there thought it made sense to do it like this.
Aaaaaaaaanyway, glad the stories are back. Hooray. To end my post with something positive, I like the foreshadowing that Jace has his own plans with the artifact. Sounds like the story will culminate in a classic three-way stand-off.