Call me crazy.
Why did Bolas have to do this on Ravnica?? Got to be a specific reason.
Otherwise, from some of the cards we've seen already and their flavor texts, the Ravnicans seem to not only be holding their own against the Eternals but actively winning. And thats without anything happening from Planeswalkers yet.
I mean the Boros are just mopping floors with these guys. Now the Angels and Parhelion II (Flying Death Star) are out and about.
Seems like a pretty dumb fight for Bolas.
He needed an important enough world that would most probably motivate as many walkers as possible to come, if the world is threatened. Ravnica was said to be a kind of a nexus, similar to Dominaria. And known to many.
It does not matter at all if the Ravnicans wipe the Eternals out. Bolas does not care, they are consumables, completely expendable. The whole war of the Eternals vs. Ravnicans is a ruse.
We were led to think that Ravnica is somehow important for Bolas, but it turned out that the only thing that matters for him is to harvest as many sparks and transcend to real godhood.
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He needed an important enough world that would most probably motivate as many walkers as possible to come, if the world is threatened. Ravnica was said to be a kind of a nexus, similar to Dominaria. And known to many.
It does not matter at all if the Ravnicans wipe the Eternals out. Bolas does not care, they are consumables, completely expendable. The whole war of the Eternals vs. Ravnicans is a ruse.
We were led to think that Ravnica is somehow important for Bolas, but it turned out that the only thing that matters for him is to harvest as many sparks and transcend to real godhood.
On this note, Wizards put out a great video summing up the story leading up to now, written by Doug Beyer and narrated by Graham from LRR.
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Did we ever get a ballpark number on how many are in the Eternal army? I think I did the math once and it felt like only a few thousand. The Selesnya, Boros, and to a lesser extent the Gruul, have standing armies. The Izzet, Rakdos, and Simic are no slouches either when it comes to throwing a punch or two. Could an Eternal army of a few thousand realistically face those combined numbers and have success be guaranteed?
The way I arrived at a few thousand was really rough math about how many generations could have been produced on Amonkhet once Bolas cleaned them out in the past, and how many from those generations became top warriors.
Did we ever get a ballpark number on how many are in the Eternal army? I think I did the math once and it felt like only a few thousand. The Selesnya, Boros, and to a lesser extent the Gruul, have standing armies. The Izzet, Rakdos, and Simic are no slouches either when it comes to throwing a punch or two. Could an Eternal army of a few thousand realistically face those combined numbers and have success be guaranteed?
The way I arrived at a few thousand was really rough math about how many generations could have been produced on Amonkhet once Bolas cleaned them out in the past, and how many from those generations became top warriors.
Well a few factors (art book is the source)
Its wasn't those who passed all the trials who was found worthy to be an eternal it was anyone who beat Bontu's trial and went to Hazs (those who Haz killed are the most worthy and I'm guessing the eternal armies bigger hitters see have seen), a number of Bontus follows had the ambition to sneak into the final trial early and where considered worthy and all the viziers where found worthy when they died as well. We can also see Bolas used a number of non-humanoids such as demons, hippos and such.
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He needed an important enough world that would most probably motivate as many walkers as possible to come, if the world is threatened. Ravnica was said to be a kind of a nexus, similar to Dominaria. And known to many.
It does not matter at all if the Ravnicans wipe the Eternals out. Bolas does not care, they are consumables, completely expendable. The whole war of the Eternals vs. Ravnicans is a ruse.
We were led to think that Ravnica is somehow important for Bolas, but it turned out that the only thing that matters for him is to harvest as many sparks and transcend to real godhood.
On this note, Wizards put out a great video summing up the story leading up to now, written by Doug Beyer and narrated by Graham from LRR.
I had to stop the video at 1:05 as I couldn't stop laughing. When it goes over the TSP event and it shows Freyalise, Karn, Teferi, and Windgrace it didn't even bother to show Jeska and Venser who helped in sealing the time rifts.
Remember we all said Garry wasn’t invited due to the similar goal of bolas killing walkers and making it harder for him to get a godspark back right?
Which means bolas chooses who to invite right?
So how did ugin get here? Wouldn’t bolas assume he’s dead thus wouldn’t get a invitation
It's unlikely that Bolas can stop a Planeswalker from coming to Ravnica. And Ugin is probably on the ball enough to know that Bolas is up to something and just goes there to stop him.
Call me crazy.
Why did Bolas have to do this on Ravnica?? Got to be a specific reason.
Otherwise, from some of the cards we've seen already and their flavor texts, the Ravnicans seem to not only be holding their own against the Eternals but actively winning. And thats without anything happening from Planeswalkers yet.
I mean the Boros are just mopping floors with these guys. Now the Angels and Parhelion II (Flying Death Star) are out and about.
Seems like a pretty dumb fight for Bolas.
He needed an important enough world that would most probably motivate as many walkers as possible to come, if the world is threatened. Ravnica was said to be a kind of a nexus, similar to Dominaria. And known to many.
It does not matter at all if the Ravnicans wipe the Eternals out. Bolas does not care, they are consumables, completely expendable. The whole war of the Eternals vs. Ravnicans is a ruse.
We were led to think that Ravnica is somehow important for Bolas, but it turned out that the only thing that matters for him is to harvest as many sparks and transcend to real godhood.
Makes Sense.
Other planeswalkers were probably aware of Ravnica and its semi importance at least enough to come and see whats up when the beacon went out. He just needs a tiny percent of eternals to get through to some walkers and kill them for the harvest of spark.
On a super tangent: I wonder how many Planeswalkers were on Ixalan (proper and world plane encompassing) and are now free only to end up on Ravnica like Angrath or how many walked far enough away and didnt care enough to come.
(Still wondering exactly how the Beacon works....)
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
The Eternals should be the ones wiping the floor with the guilds. They've been set up as a class of super zombies, born and bred to be elite, perfect warriors, and they have no need for food, water, or rest. One Eternal should be match for 3 Boros veterans.
I wish more art showed Ravnica really crumbling under the onslaught. I get that players identify with the guilds and everyone likes to see their guild kicking ass, but the Eternals should be some of the best troops in the Multiverse.
Edit: I just did the math: The Elite among the Eternals (those who passed Hazoret's Trial) should have, over a 42-year period (beginning 18 years after Bolas culled all but the infants from Amonkhet), amassed a force of over 15,000 Eternals.
Those are just the ones that died on Hazoret's spear. If we factor that all initiates who even made it to the final trial became Eternals, then the total number of Bolas's host could be 10 times that.
Amonkhet isn’t necessarily the best of the best when it comes to fighting though. Sure the trials are grueling, but that’s probably a negative. Who knows how many warriors could have grown better if they’d been in a better environment. It’s also a very small population relatively speaking, while Ravnica has... well, a lot. They also have much more advanced weaponry than the Eternals, unless Bolas outfitted them with gear from Kaladesh. Honestly with the numbers and gear disparity I’m kind of having a hard time seeing it as a big deal. Maybe he’s turning people they kill like a traditional zombie horde, only way I can see the Eternals as a threat.
In the video Ral's activating the beacon.
Can you please recall me the exact position of Ral in this?
I remember him being working for Niv-Mizzet in someway, but I can't focus now on what, because he transformed the project lightning bug in the beacon (for Bolas), he activates it (for Bolas)... what did he do for Niv and WHAT EXACTLY did Dovin sabotage?
It's obvious that in the end he would fight AGAINST Bolas, even for his simple survival... But until then?
In the video Ral's activating the beacon.
Can you please recall me the exact position of Ral in this?
I remember him being working for Niv-Mizzet in someway, but I can't focus now on what, because he transformed the project lightning bug in the beacon (for Bolas), he activates it (for Bolas)... what did he do for Niv and WHAT EXACTLY did Dovin sabotage?
It's obvious that in the end he would fight AGAINST Bolas, even for his simple survival... But until then?
It's honestly looking more and more like while Ral did some work for Bolas (because you don't tell Bolas no if you like not being dead), he was never actually in on the plot.
Call me crazy.
Why did Bolas have to do this on Ravnica?? Got to be a specific reason.
Otherwise, from some of the cards we've seen already and their flavor texts, the Ravnicans seem to not only be holding their own against the Eternals but actively winning. And thats without anything happening from Planeswalkers yet.
I mean the Boros are just mopping floors with these guys. Now the Angels and Parhelion II (Flying Death Star) are out and about.
Seems like a pretty dumb fight for Bolas.
He about to respond. We haven't seen the God Eternals make their appearance yet.
Also I suspect that Bolas chose Ravnica as his plane of choice as the plane is steeped in hieromancy (It's why the guildpact was so strongly bound to the plane) so that his plan can essentially be legally binding.
Amonkhet isn’t necessarily the best of the best when it comes to fighting though. Sure the trials are grueling, but that’s probably a negative. Who knows how many warriors could have grown better if they’d been in a better environment. It’s also a very small population relatively speaking, while Ravnica has... well, a lot. They also have much more advanced weaponry than the Eternals, unless Bolas outfitted them with gear from Kaladesh. Honestly with the numbers and gear disparity I’m kind of having a hard time seeing it as a big deal. Maybe he’s turning people they kill like a traditional zombie horde, only way I can see the Eternals as a threat.
You're really underestimating the impact of constant practise. The Amonkheti did not have to worry about mundane day to day things, like agriculture, politics or even raising children. They focused entirely on combat prowess. Putting that many hours into a particular skill really really has a huge impact.
Ravnicans on the other hand are held up by the usual day to day stuff, especially politics. Every meeting you have to attend or patrol you are sent out or group of newly guilded you have to train subtracts from your combat practise hours. Plus, whereas Amonkheti saw combat as a goal, for Ravnicans it's more of a necessity. Every conflict that could be resolved differently probably was and we're not even getting into the point that the guildpact was actually preventing large scale conflicts in the first place. Ravnicans should, by all accounts, be completely unable to participate feasibly in large scale military operations (though then again so do the Amonkheti, I already find it a little odd the eternals organize in rank and file seeing as it's completely counter to their combat styles during the trials, but I digress). At least the trials prepared the eternals for flexibility. Even if large scale conflicts weren't quite on the curriculum, they should have the encessary skills to adapt. Ravnicans could rely on the guildpact and millennia old military structures to uphold the status quo.
Now, I'm not saying the Ravnicans shouldn't give the eternals a run for their money. Bolas doesn't really care about the eternals, they're more of a distraction than anything and the eternals should be horribly outnumbered by the guilds, but the eternals shouldn't be the total pushovers we see on literally every other card. Off the top of my head, I don't remember a single card art featuring eternals actually dishing out rather than dishing in (:T). The closest we have is that one eternal pushing down Teyo, but that's it. On the other hand we have everything from wurms to trolls to lousy potted plants owning eternals, even eternalized dragons.
1. Why "Hieromancy" became "Law Magic" in Magic:the Gathering is a mystery to me.
2. Bah, in the new teaser about Bolas' Plan they basically say "in the end (pun intended)it did not matter where the heck he would go"... But on Ravnica there is the Interplanar Beacon, that might be a better reason.
Amonkhet isn’t necessarily the best of the best when it comes to fighting though. Sure the trials are grueling, but that’s probably a negative. Who knows how many warriors could have grown better if they’d been in a better environment. It’s also a very small population relatively speaking, while Ravnica has... well, a lot. They also have much more advanced weaponry than the Eternals, unless Bolas outfitted them with gear from Kaladesh. Honestly with the numbers and gear disparity I’m kind of having a hard time seeing it as a big deal. Maybe he’s turning people they kill like a traditional zombie horde, only way I can see the Eternals as a threat.
You're really underestimating the impact of constant practise. The Amonkheti did not have to worry about mundane day to day things, like agriculture, politics or even raising children. They focused entirely on combat prowess. Putting that many hours into a particular skill really really has a huge impact.
Ravnicans on the other hand are held up by the usual day to day stuff, especially politics. Every meeting you have to attend or patrol you are sent out or group of newly guilded you have to train subtracts from your combat practise hours. Plus, whereas Amonkheti saw combat as a goal, for Ravnicans it's more of a necessity. Every conflict that could be resolved differently probably was and we're not even getting into the point that the guildpact was actually preventing large scale conflicts in the first place. Ravnicans should, by all accounts, be completely unable to participate feasibly in large scale military operations (though then again so do the Amonkheti, I already find it a little odd the eternals organize in rank and file seeing as it's completely counter to their combat styles during the trials, but I digress). At least the trials prepared the eternals for flexibility. Even if large scale conflicts weren't quite on the curriculum, they should have the encessary skills to adapt. Ravnicans could rely on the guildpact and millennia old military structures to uphold the status quo.
Now, I'm not saying the Ravnicans shouldn't give the eternals a run for their money. Bolas doesn't really care about the eternals, they're more of a distraction than anything and the eternals should be horribly outnumbered by the guilds, but the eternals shouldn't be the total pushovers we see on literally every other card. Off the top of my head, I don't remember a single card art featuring eternals actually dishing out rather than dishing in (:T). The closest we have is that one eternal pushing down Teyo, but that's it. On the other hand we have everything from wurms to trolls to lousy potted plants owning eternals, even eternalized dragons.
I'm not really underestimating it, I just don't think that it makes as much of a difference as you're treating it. The Boros on the plane alone, easily the most military-like of the Guilds should outnumber the Eternals. Unless there is something with the math I'm missing I just don't see how the Eternals could have a sizeable enough force to be a threat, even if they're better than the rank and file. It still doesn't deal with the drastic level of gear difference either, as Ravnica is... not ancient Egypt in terms of tech level. I feel like either there is something we're missing or Bolas really didn't intend for the Eternals to serve as much of a threat.
2. Bah, in the new teaser about Bolas' Plan they basically say "in the end (pun intended)it did not matter where the heck he would go"... But on Ravnica there is the Interplanar Beacon, that might be a better reason.
What teaser was this?
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You're really underestimating the impact of constant practise. The Amonkheti did not have to worry about mundane day to day things, like agriculture, politics or even raising children. They focused entirely on combat prowess. Putting that many hours into a particular skill really really has a huge impact.
That's assuming that the practice is actually valid for the job you are going to do. A lot of people who practice martial arts will tell you that training and experience are very different things-- you can be a blackbelt in your art and still get beat by an experienced but untrained street brawler because the experience of real violence has prepared him better than most dojos could. The street brawler knows how to deal with things like stress and adrenaline, while even a cage match is comparatively calm despite how brutal it looks. That means your training can go out the window and you can fail to perform even a basic punch correctly. As Mike Tyson once put it, "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face."
Here is the thing about Amonkhet's Trials and training: we are given to understand that most of their training was in fighting beasts and monsters, not other warriors and soldiers. The Boros Legion, on the other hand, fight mostly humanoid opponents, and their equipment is actually superior for that purpose if you stop and really look at it. The warriors of Amonkhet are stuck in the perpetual bronze age, with bronze age spears, swords, and bows; and they fight in minimal armor because they live in a desert. Yes, the Lazotep helps make up for this, but its still questionable how effective it is in comparison to the late medieval plate armor that the Guilds issue (even granting that its fantasy style plate armor), and whether it will stop a longsword and other steel weaponry. Of course, we don't know for certain because Lazotep is a fictional material, but still its main purpose is to protect the Eternals from the energy of the Aether when they step through the Planar Bridge. The protection it grants from weapons is secondary to that purpose. And a bronze Khopesh is not going to cut through a steel breastplate. It just isn't. Protection wise, a soldier on Ravinca is quite well equipped to fight other, similarly equipped soldiers. And it takes special training to defeat such equipment. Training which a knight or soldier from Dominaria or Alara might have, certainly, because they have comparable equipment. But a warrior from Amonkhet, where that equipment doesn't exist? Probably not. Add on top of this that Ravinca's guilds use mounted cavalry and the Eternals do not, and by all accounts they are actually ill-equipped in the most literal sense of the word to face the armies of Ravnica. That's justification enough for me for all the zombie-killing we have seen in the cards spoiled thus far. And there is probably a lot of art we still haven't seen of the Eternals doing their thing too. Remember, the set still isn't out yet.
This is like seeing only the cards from Invasion Block that show the victories the Dominarians had over the Phyrexians and concluding that the Phyrexians could never be defeated so often. There are plenty of other cards showing Phyrexian victories, and Dominaria was well prepared for the war to set up those victories. Same probably applies here, even though the war is more sudden. And Bolas didn't plan this thousands of years ahead of time like Yawgmoth did. Ravnica probably wasn't the best plane he could have chosen for this invasion. But it is the plane he picked!
Ravnicans on the other hand are held up by the usual day to day stuff, especially politics. Every meeting you have to attend or patrol you are sent out or group of newly guilded you have to train subtracts from your combat practise hours. Plus, whereas Amonkheti saw combat as a goal, for Ravnicans it's more of a necessity. Every conflict that could be resolved differently probably was and we're not even getting into the point that the guildpact was actually preventing large scale conflicts in the first place. Ravnicans should, by all accounts, be completely unable to participate feasibly in large scale military operations (though then again so do the Amonkheti, I already find it a little odd the eternals organize in rank and file seeing as it's completely counter to their combat styles during the trials, but I digress). At least the trials prepared the eternals for flexibility. Even if large scale conflicts weren't quite on the curriculum, they should have the encessary skills to adapt. Ravnicans could rely on the guildpact and millennia old military structures to uphold the status quo.
That might be the reality of Ravnica, but from all appearances the guilds still seem to train their people for a military paradigm that hasn't existed on Ravnica in a looong time. The artwork clearly shows that even the Selesnia Conclave is regimented and well organized for this kind of battle. Remember, Ravnica might be dominated by politics, but that politics comes in the form of a constant cold war. But some of the guilds still seem to train as if it could go hot at any time, and if nothing else justifies it then the Gruul do.
1. Why "Hieromancy" became "Law Magic" in Magic:the Gathering is a mystery to me.
2. Bah, in the new teaser about Bolas' Plan they basically say "in the end (pun intended)it did not matter where the heck he would go"... But on Ravnica there is the Interplanar Beacon, that might be a better reason.
The Beacon was built there recently. It is the "new project" referred to on Steam Vents. It is not something that was there since days of yore.
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Where are the base numbers for these estimates of the populations of Amonkhet and Ravnica coming from? I have a hard time believing that any meaningful predictions can be made due to the rather large margins of error.
But in the end it doesn't even matter. Since the purpose of the Eternals is capturing sparks, I doubt Bolas is even that concerned if he gets Ravnica. Conquering Ravnica seems to me like a misdirect, a reason for planeswalkers to flock there.
1. Why "Hieromancy" became "Law Magic" in Magic:the Gathering is a mystery to me.
2. Bah, in the new teaser about Bolas' Plan they basically say "in the end (pun intended)it did not matter where the heck he would go"... But on Ravnica there is the Interplanar Beacon, that might be a better reason.
The Beacon was built there recently. It is the "new project" referred to on Steam Vents. It is not something that was there since days of yore.
I thought the plan to transform the lightning bug project in the beacon was planned ahead... Then what was the thing Ral was doing for Bolas which required him to go report to Nicol? (Not saying it was Bolas suggestion to build it, because it appears it was Niv's intent. But Bolas basically pushed things in ways unknown to us toward the direction of building the beacon...)
You're really underestimating the impact of constant practise. The Amonkheti did not have to worry about mundane day to day things, like agriculture, politics or even raising children. They focused entirely on combat prowess. Putting that many hours into a particular skill really really has a huge impact.
Here is the thing about Amonkhet's Trials and training: we are given to understand that most of their training was in fighting beasts and monsters, not other warriors and soldiers.
This isn't true at all. The trials (especially Oketra's and Hazoret's) frequently featured embalmed to serve as opponents. (Not exclusively mind you.)
So far the card have shown a brightly lit scenes on Ravnica, yet we know from the trailer that it gets dark and the War seems to be more in Bolas favor. We also know the spoilers are focused on going in the order of the story. To me its seems likeBolas army invades Ravnica, the guilds team up and all looks good but then somehow things get worse (such as the eternalized gods).
Neheb and Eternal Taskmaster also hint that the eternals can be repaired in someway as well. Could be the guilds are thinking they are going good by smashing the eternals only for them to get back up.
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Where are the base numbers for these estimates of the populations of Amonkhet and Ravnica coming from? I have a hard time believing that any meaningful predictions can be made due to the rather large margins of error.
But in the end it doesn't even matter. Since the purpose of the Eternals is capturing sparks, I doubt Bolas is even that concerned if he gets Ravnica. Conquering Ravnica seems to me like a misdirect, a reason for planeswalkers to flock there.
I don't think anyone is quoting specific numbers. But we know Ravnica is the city plane. Amonkhet is mostly a plane ravaged by Bolas (and I want to say some unknown problem before Bolas showed up) that amounts to one smallish city protected by a magical barrier. Then the Eternals are a small subsect of that city. In terms of population density even the entirety of Amonkhet probably amounts to one district of Ravnica, let alone the Eternals.
And I'm guessing Bolas manages to succeed in his spell and that's what turns the tides. Unless the deities are a bigger deal than they seem it's hard to imagine that turning things in Bolas' favor so strongly.
A) Bolas wins, but disappears as a result or something, and we don't see him for a good long while;
B) Bolas wins, but is set up to lose later (sooner rather than later) a la Thanos/Avengers: Endgame;
C) Bolas loses, and dies;
D} Bolas loses, goes into a kind of exile and we don't see him for a good long while, if ever again.
Those are the four main outcomes I envision. I ask because of what we've been discussing, as far as the Eternal army (and how big it is), and Ravnica proper (and whether it will be destroyed). As others have pointed out, we don't yet have the story, nor all the cards spoiled, so we don't know for sure what will happen.
It makes me wonder what makes sense as far as the End of Bolas. Wizards keeps driving home the point that Yawgmoth and Xenagos are capital d Dead. I don't think they want bad guys to keep coming back after being decisively dealt with. So as a climax to the Bolas arc, which of A-D above would work best?
I think they want to move on from Bolas to other things, which *would* make me lean toward C or D. And if we're in C or D, I think they'd prefer C, to keep bad guys defeated. The good guy cards spoiled so far sure seem to show the Eternals getting rekt, and indicate the guilds of Ravnica working together with the power of friendship. Are there enough unspoiled cards to turn that tide, as someone else wondered? Could the four eternalized Amonkheti gods change what we've seen so far? Unlike Amonkhet, Ravnica has giant commandable wurms and a giant Demon who, I suspect, could go toe to toe with an Amonkhet god, among other things on Ravnica.
However, we have a God Dragon planeswalker card for Bolas, which would seem to indicate that his spell works and he ascends. Which means, as far as that specific goal, he 'wins.' No longer a 'regular' elder dragon, could the Blackblade even finish him off? Does Wizards really want to retread the Elspeth/Spear/Xenagod line, this time with Gideon/Blackblade/Bolas? I don't personally think so.
So my conclusions, based on the cards and Wizards likely wanting to draw an end to the Bolas arc (for now or forever), is that options A or C are most likely. Option A would leave behind many of the walkers we know, while leaving Bolas' fate unknown, and Option C would leave behind many of the walkers we know, while putting an end to the Bolas arc.
I'm leaning toward A over C, though, due to the God Dragon card. He could still lose after he 'wins,' but it sure seems he wins in part already. Shrug!
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He needed an important enough world that would most probably motivate as many walkers as possible to come, if the world is threatened. Ravnica was said to be a kind of a nexus, similar to Dominaria. And known to many.
It does not matter at all if the Ravnicans wipe the Eternals out. Bolas does not care, they are consumables, completely expendable. The whole war of the Eternals vs. Ravnicans is a ruse.
We were led to think that Ravnica is somehow important for Bolas, but it turned out that the only thing that matters for him is to harvest as many sparks and transcend to real godhood.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
On this note, Wizards put out a great video summing up the story leading up to now, written by Doug Beyer and narrated by Graham from LRR.
The way I arrived at a few thousand was really rough math about how many generations could have been produced on Amonkhet once Bolas cleaned them out in the past, and how many from those generations became top warriors.
Well a few factors (art book is the source)
Its wasn't those who passed all the trials who was found worthy to be an eternal it was anyone who beat Bontu's trial and went to Hazs (those who Haz killed are the most worthy and I'm guessing the eternal armies bigger hitters see have seen), a number of Bontus follows had the ambition to sneak into the final trial early and where considered worthy and all the viziers where found worthy when they died as well. We can also see Bolas used a number of non-humanoids such as demons, hippos and such.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It's unlikely that Bolas can stop a Planeswalker from coming to Ravnica. And Ugin is probably on the ball enough to know that Bolas is up to something and just goes there to stop him.
Makes Sense.
Other planeswalkers were probably aware of Ravnica and its semi importance at least enough to come and see whats up when the beacon went out. He just needs a tiny percent of eternals to get through to some walkers and kill them for the harvest of spark.
On a super tangent: I wonder how many Planeswalkers were on Ixalan (proper and world plane encompassing) and are now free only to end up on Ravnica like Angrath or how many walked far enough away and didnt care enough to come.
(Still wondering exactly how the Beacon works....)
I wish more art showed Ravnica really crumbling under the onslaught. I get that players identify with the guilds and everyone likes to see their guild kicking ass, but the Eternals should be some of the best troops in the Multiverse.
Edit: I just did the math: The Elite among the Eternals (those who passed Hazoret's Trial) should have, over a 42-year period (beginning 18 years after Bolas culled all but the infants from Amonkhet), amassed a force of over 15,000 Eternals.
Those are just the ones that died on Hazoret's spear. If we factor that all initiates who even made it to the final trial became Eternals, then the total number of Bolas's host could be 10 times that.
Can you please recall me the exact position of Ral in this?
I remember him being working for Niv-Mizzet in someway, but I can't focus now on what, because he transformed the project lightning bug in the beacon (for Bolas), he activates it (for Bolas)... what did he do for Niv and WHAT EXACTLY did Dovin sabotage?
It's obvious that in the end he would fight AGAINST Bolas, even for his simple survival... But until then?
It's honestly looking more and more like while Ral did some work for Bolas (because you don't tell Bolas no if you like not being dead), he was never actually in on the plot.
He about to respond. We haven't seen the God Eternals make their appearance yet.
Also I suspect that Bolas chose Ravnica as his plane of choice as the plane is steeped in hieromancy (It's why the guildpact was so strongly bound to the plane) so that his plan can essentially be legally binding.
You're really underestimating the impact of constant practise. The Amonkheti did not have to worry about mundane day to day things, like agriculture, politics or even raising children. They focused entirely on combat prowess. Putting that many hours into a particular skill really really has a huge impact.
Ravnicans on the other hand are held up by the usual day to day stuff, especially politics. Every meeting you have to attend or patrol you are sent out or group of newly guilded you have to train subtracts from your combat practise hours. Plus, whereas Amonkheti saw combat as a goal, for Ravnicans it's more of a necessity. Every conflict that could be resolved differently probably was and we're not even getting into the point that the guildpact was actually preventing large scale conflicts in the first place. Ravnicans should, by all accounts, be completely unable to participate feasibly in large scale military operations (though then again so do the Amonkheti, I already find it a little odd the eternals organize in rank and file seeing as it's completely counter to their combat styles during the trials, but I digress). At least the trials prepared the eternals for flexibility. Even if large scale conflicts weren't quite on the curriculum, they should have the encessary skills to adapt. Ravnicans could rely on the guildpact and millennia old military structures to uphold the status quo.
Now, I'm not saying the Ravnicans shouldn't give the eternals a run for their money. Bolas doesn't really care about the eternals, they're more of a distraction than anything and the eternals should be horribly outnumbered by the guilds, but the eternals shouldn't be the total pushovers we see on literally every other card. Off the top of my head, I don't remember a single card art featuring eternals actually dishing out rather than dishing in (:T). The closest we have is that one eternal pushing down Teyo, but that's it. On the other hand we have everything from wurms to trolls to lousy potted plants owning eternals, even eternalized dragons.
2. Bah, in the new teaser about Bolas' Plan they basically say "in the end (pun intended)it did not matter where the heck he would go"... But on Ravnica there is the Interplanar Beacon, that might be a better reason.
I'm not really underestimating it, I just don't think that it makes as much of a difference as you're treating it. The Boros on the plane alone, easily the most military-like of the Guilds should outnumber the Eternals. Unless there is something with the math I'm missing I just don't see how the Eternals could have a sizeable enough force to be a threat, even if they're better than the rank and file. It still doesn't deal with the drastic level of gear difference either, as Ravnica is... not ancient Egypt in terms of tech level. I feel like either there is something we're missing or Bolas really didn't intend for the Eternals to serve as much of a threat.
What teaser was this?
That's assuming that the practice is actually valid for the job you are going to do. A lot of people who practice martial arts will tell you that training and experience are very different things-- you can be a blackbelt in your art and still get beat by an experienced but untrained street brawler because the experience of real violence has prepared him better than most dojos could. The street brawler knows how to deal with things like stress and adrenaline, while even a cage match is comparatively calm despite how brutal it looks. That means your training can go out the window and you can fail to perform even a basic punch correctly. As Mike Tyson once put it, "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face."
Here is the thing about Amonkhet's Trials and training: we are given to understand that most of their training was in fighting beasts and monsters, not other warriors and soldiers. The Boros Legion, on the other hand, fight mostly humanoid opponents, and their equipment is actually superior for that purpose if you stop and really look at it. The warriors of Amonkhet are stuck in the perpetual bronze age, with bronze age spears, swords, and bows; and they fight in minimal armor because they live in a desert. Yes, the Lazotep helps make up for this, but its still questionable how effective it is in comparison to the late medieval plate armor that the Guilds issue (even granting that its fantasy style plate armor), and whether it will stop a longsword and other steel weaponry. Of course, we don't know for certain because Lazotep is a fictional material, but still its main purpose is to protect the Eternals from the energy of the Aether when they step through the Planar Bridge. The protection it grants from weapons is secondary to that purpose. And a bronze Khopesh is not going to cut through a steel breastplate. It just isn't. Protection wise, a soldier on Ravinca is quite well equipped to fight other, similarly equipped soldiers. And it takes special training to defeat such equipment. Training which a knight or soldier from Dominaria or Alara might have, certainly, because they have comparable equipment. But a warrior from Amonkhet, where that equipment doesn't exist? Probably not. Add on top of this that Ravinca's guilds use mounted cavalry and the Eternals do not, and by all accounts they are actually ill-equipped in the most literal sense of the word to face the armies of Ravnica. That's justification enough for me for all the zombie-killing we have seen in the cards spoiled thus far. And there is probably a lot of art we still haven't seen of the Eternals doing their thing too. Remember, the set still isn't out yet.
This is like seeing only the cards from Invasion Block that show the victories the Dominarians had over the Phyrexians and concluding that the Phyrexians could never be defeated so often. There are plenty of other cards showing Phyrexian victories, and Dominaria was well prepared for the war to set up those victories. Same probably applies here, even though the war is more sudden. And Bolas didn't plan this thousands of years ahead of time like Yawgmoth did. Ravnica probably wasn't the best plane he could have chosen for this invasion. But it is the plane he picked!
That might be the reality of Ravnica, but from all appearances the guilds still seem to train their people for a military paradigm that hasn't existed on Ravnica in a looong time. The artwork clearly shows that even the Selesnia Conclave is regimented and well organized for this kind of battle. Remember, Ravnica might be dominated by politics, but that politics comes in the form of a constant cold war. But some of the guilds still seem to train as if it could go hot at any time, and if nothing else justifies it then the Gruul do.
The word teaser is not really the right one, but yeah, that "video-teaser-explanation-recap"
The Beacon was built there recently. It is the "new project" referred to on Steam Vents. It is not something that was there since days of yore.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
But in the end it doesn't even matter. Since the purpose of the Eternals is capturing sparks, I doubt Bolas is even that concerned if he gets Ravnica. Conquering Ravnica seems to me like a misdirect, a reason for planeswalkers to flock there.
I thought the plan to transform the lightning bug project in the beacon was planned ahead... Then what was the thing Ral was doing for Bolas which required him to go report to Nicol? (Not saying it was Bolas suggestion to build it, because it appears it was Niv's intent. But Bolas basically pushed things in ways unknown to us toward the direction of building the beacon...)
This isn't true at all. The trials (especially Oketra's and Hazoret's) frequently featured embalmed to serve as opponents. (Not exclusively mind you.)
Neheb and Eternal Taskmaster also hint that the eternals can be repaired in someway as well. Could be the guilds are thinking they are going good by smashing the eternals only for them to get back up.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don't think anyone is quoting specific numbers. But we know Ravnica is the city plane. Amonkhet is mostly a plane ravaged by Bolas (and I want to say some unknown problem before Bolas showed up) that amounts to one smallish city protected by a magical barrier. Then the Eternals are a small subsect of that city. In terms of population density even the entirety of Amonkhet probably amounts to one district of Ravnica, let alone the Eternals.
And I'm guessing Bolas manages to succeed in his spell and that's what turns the tides. Unless the deities are a bigger deal than they seem it's hard to imagine that turning things in Bolas' favor so strongly.
A) Bolas wins, but disappears as a result or something, and we don't see him for a good long while;
B) Bolas wins, but is set up to lose later (sooner rather than later) a la Thanos/Avengers: Endgame;
C) Bolas loses, and dies;
D} Bolas loses, goes into a kind of exile and we don't see him for a good long while, if ever again.
Those are the four main outcomes I envision. I ask because of what we've been discussing, as far as the Eternal army (and how big it is), and Ravnica proper (and whether it will be destroyed). As others have pointed out, we don't yet have the story, nor all the cards spoiled, so we don't know for sure what will happen.
It makes me wonder what makes sense as far as the End of Bolas. Wizards keeps driving home the point that Yawgmoth and Xenagos are capital d Dead. I don't think they want bad guys to keep coming back after being decisively dealt with. So as a climax to the Bolas arc, which of A-D above would work best?
I think they want to move on from Bolas to other things, which *would* make me lean toward C or D. And if we're in C or D, I think they'd prefer C, to keep bad guys defeated. The good guy cards spoiled so far sure seem to show the Eternals getting rekt, and indicate the guilds of Ravnica working together with the power of friendship. Are there enough unspoiled cards to turn that tide, as someone else wondered? Could the four eternalized Amonkheti gods change what we've seen so far? Unlike Amonkhet, Ravnica has giant commandable wurms and a giant Demon who, I suspect, could go toe to toe with an Amonkhet god, among other things on Ravnica.
However, we have a God Dragon planeswalker card for Bolas, which would seem to indicate that his spell works and he ascends. Which means, as far as that specific goal, he 'wins.' No longer a 'regular' elder dragon, could the Blackblade even finish him off? Does Wizards really want to retread the Elspeth/Spear/Xenagod line, this time with Gideon/Blackblade/Bolas? I don't personally think so.
So my conclusions, based on the cards and Wizards likely wanting to draw an end to the Bolas arc (for now or forever), is that options A or C are most likely. Option A would leave behind many of the walkers we know, while leaving Bolas' fate unknown, and Option C would leave behind many of the walkers we know, while putting an end to the Bolas arc.
I'm leaning toward A over C, though, due to the God Dragon card. He could still lose after he 'wins,' but it sure seems he wins in part already. Shrug!