Not a Moderator (please don't kill me) but I figured we deserved this Thread.
As we are not expecting main plotline stories for Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) set anymore than we did GRN, and because much of the War of the Spark (WAR) set's story will be revealed on paperback and through online stories, I figured we could consolidate them no?
On the main plotline revealed by RNA's cards so far, I realized I was in the right guild for me when my first reaction to Kaya's Ethereal Absolution of the indentured Orzhov spirits was TO REEL BACK IN HORROR!!
It was perhaps the moral thing to do, but not very strategic for the guild's overall wellbeing, Without debt, consequences, and the power that the dead provide for the guild, the Syndicate has lost a lot of power. While I'm all for reforming the guild and making the indentured living and dead's repayment easier and more ennobling, even a shallow understanding of economics points to negative externalities when market forces are so blatantly ignored.
And maybe as someone in another thread pointed out, this was Bolas's plan all along. Mass inflation to increase the chaos of the plane. I believe Kaya is onto something and her ethics bears a point but even ethical action can have dangerous, and negative consequences. Road to hell is paved by good intentions.
Edit: This is a fantasy game. If people willingly sell their souls in a fantasy setting, or neglect to read, or accepts the fine print of undertaking a huge debt, there should be consequences. Duty in the afterlife does not necessarily to be equated to real-world slavery. It is the fulfilment of an obligation, and if our real world is recalcitrant to overly-idealistic conceptions of 'fairness', do not expect these fantasy worlds to be either. The Orzhov need reform, I can get behind that, but there are always costs.
I may not be an Alt-Right or an Alt-Left queer but I'm a queer whose sick and tired of people 'Evilizing' other people and opinions they don't like. Regardless as to their identities or ideology.
Ending real-world slavery also had dramatically negative economic consequences, and despite that it was the morally correct thing to do. Ending slavery (de facto or de jure) is always right.
From a storyline perspective it's a little interesting that Bolas is generally disrupting the Guilds, but without the Guildpact around who cares? It's not like the Guilds present themselves as a solid defender of Ravnica in the first place? Why bother?
The idea of a signal to bring more Planeswalkers to Ravnica to fight Bolas has parallels to the mythical Planeswalker War, which I posted about here.
I'm going to be a little disappointed if we have a Planeswalkers War on Ravnica and a lure set out to draw more Planeswalkers in, but the set features color balanced (ish) planeswalker cards for Ajani, Jace, Lilliana, and Chandra.
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----- "I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
Not a Moderator (please don't kill me) but I figured we deserved this Thread.
As we are not expecting main plotline stories for Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) set anymore than we did GRN, and because much of the War of the Spark (WAR) set's story will be revealed on paperback and through online stories, I figured we could consolidate them no?
On the main plotline revealed by RNA's cards so far, I realized I was in the right guild for me when my first reaction to Kaya's Ethereal Absolution of the indentured Orzhov spirits was TO REEL BACK IN HORROR!!
It was perhaps the moral thing to do, but not very strategic for the guild's overall wellbeing, Without debt, consequences, and the power that the dead provide for the guild, the Syndicate has lost a lot of power. While I'm all for reforming the guild and making the indentured living and dead's repayment easier and more ennobling, even a shallow understanding of economics points to negative externalities when market forces are so blatantly ignored.
And maybe as someone in another thread pointed out, this was Bolas's plan all along. Mass inflation to increase the chaos of the plane. I believe Kaya is onto something and her ethics bears a point but even ethical action can have dangerous, and negative consequences. Road to hell is paved by good intentions.
And knowing Bolas he knew this would happen if he made Kaya guild master, ghosts would be a problem the eternal would have issues with.
Thinking on it, Amonkhet didn't have any spirits so even the eternal mages might not have magics to deal with them unless Bolas could add in knowledge to them afterwards.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
On the main plotline revealed by RNA's cards so far, I realized I was in the right guild for me when my first reaction to Kaya's Ethereal Absolution of the indentured Orzhov spirits was TO REEL BACK IN HORROR!!
It was perhaps the moral thing to do, but not very strategic for the guild's overall wellbeing, Without debt, consequences, and the power that the dead provide for the guild, the Syndicate has lost a lot of power. While I'm all for reforming the guild and making the indentured living and dead's repayment easier and more ennobling, even a shallow understanding of economics points to negative externalities when market forces are so blatantly ignored.
Wasn't this basically Teysa's reaction as well?
Personally I like a change to the guilds (and planes in general, nothing is more boring than stagnancy). I just hope they won't do a 180 next return to Ravnica and say "oh while we were gone the Orzhov got spirits back complete with a new Obzedat, lol".
On the main plotline revealed by RNA's cards so far, I realized I was in the right guild for me when my first reaction to Kaya's Ethereal Absolution of the indentured Orzhov spirits was TO REEL BACK IN HORROR!!
It was perhaps the moral thing to do, but not very strategic for the guild's overall wellbeing, Without debt, consequences, and the power that the dead provide for the guild, the Syndicate has lost a lot of power. While I'm all for reforming the guild and making the indentured living and dead's repayment easier and more ennobling, even a shallow understanding of economics points to negative externalities when market forces are so blatantly ignored.
Wasn't this basically Teysa's reaction as well?
Personally I like a change to the guilds (and planes in general, nothing is more boring than stagnancy). I just hope they won't do a 180 next return to Ravnica and say "oh while we were gone the Orzhov got spirits back complete with a new Obzedat, lol".
I think that was her reaction? I'm unsure. Sometimes there's differences between the cards and the actual story but I hope that Wizards has the sense to show complex repercussions of even arguably ethical choices. Complexity in storyline is important, but to be honest, they've tried so hard to make the story approachable and grokable (good things) that the nuance and complexity sometimes just isn't there. Dovin Baan and Azorious the Sphinx's treatment as cardboard villains are cases in point. As is the entire Ixalan Block. I miss my Innistrad with it's Nahiri and Sorin.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Sphinxes are Bad and Dumb. Cause Lawful Good Sucks.
That is my problem Experience apparently does nothing for Legendaries in this Magic Story, its best ignored so young Neowalkers can show up their Elders with Legendaries jobbing left right and center and forgetting all their magic abilities. Now that is not to say all Legendaries get screwed Jhoira was treated pretty well in Dominaria but I think that was writer bias. Teferi, Jaya and Karn not so much especially Teferi what stood out as the most egregious is Teferi turning to Ralf and asking what a specter is. I am sorry Raff is straight out of magic college and 30 max. Why is Teferi asking Raff anything about Magic, Raff aint even a Demonolgist or Necromancer specialist which would make it have even a modicum of sense. But this also born out in Ugin saying down kill the Eldrazi Titans and Jace doing it anyway with no consequences. Still the consistent message has been Oldwalkers and Old Legendaries Bad, Neowalkers Good.
Isperia sticks out as the worse. Based on the cards and previous lore, Isperia finds out Dovin is a plant, goes to a secret meeting with Vraska despite knowing Vraksa aint really a fan of her guild and fails to research a stone gaze protection spell or use her telepathy. She really carries the idiot ball. As compared to say Borbo who didn't do anything dumb but seems to have lost for dumb reasons.
Dovin Baan and Azorious the Sphinx's treatment as cardboard villains are cases in point
Dovin Baan really hasn't been treated as a villain, and frankly the man has a legit beef against the Gatewatch, now he is choosing a very poor outlet for that beef but frankly I do not think he would have any problem equating what happened on Kaladesh with what Bolas is going to do.
As for Azorious, Oldwalkers almost always had the blind spot of "The things I do might harm those little people but they are really for the best because I say so." I wouldn't say he was treated as a badguy and more of a Child who got told to go sit in a corner and stop causing problems.
That position works if you think Azor and Oldwalker intervention was always wrong. I don't yeah it was a mess on Ixalan but I make the case he wasn't as his most mentally stable on Ixalan what with sealing his spark and Ugin disappearing and not calling. Whereas his intervention ended what centuries, millennium of never ending wars on Ravnica. Is the Guild System Perfect? No but its sure a whole lot better then endless war. And the snapshot of the other plane he intervened on seemed pretty peaceful until Bolas rolled in rekt things. So Ixalan seems more like an aberration for Azor.
Same for Urza at least with regards to Phyrexia. Were his individual moves or reasons for war moral? Not really but he wasn't wrong about Yawgmoth and Phyrexia needing to be put down. Shades of grey are nice for characters especially you know for a franchise with an adult audience.
Honestly, I would argue not thinking about each short lived mortal is pretty natural for an immortal. Its not very human sure but when you live for centuries and millennium its easy to focus on the big picture and probably natural.
Dovin Baan and Azorious the Sphinx's treatment as cardboard villains are cases in point
Dovin Baan really hasn't been treated as a villain, and frankly the man has a legit beef against the Gatewatch, now he is choosing a very poor outlet for that beef but frankly I do not think he would have any problem equating what happened on Kaladesh with what Bolas is going to do.
To add on it seems like none of the Bolas walkers are 100% filled into what Bolas is really planning. From Dovin pov Bolas is just helping him bring order to Ravnica and the puzzle of how to do that. Not something you play with when you know a zombie invasion will appear.
As for Azorious, Oldwalkers almost always had the blind spot of "The things I do might harm those little people but they are really for the best because I say so." I wouldn't say he was treated as a badguy and more of a Child who got told to go sit in a corner and stop causing problems.
I think thats a pretty spot on way to describe Azor.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Not a Moderator (please don't kill me) but I figured we deserved this Thread.
As we are not expecting main plotline stories for Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) set anymore than we did GRN, and because much of the War of the Spark (WAR) set's story will be revealed on paperback and through online stories, I figured we could consolidate them no?
On the main plotline revealed by RNA's cards so far, I realized I was in the right guild for me when my first reaction to Kaya's Ethereal Absolution of the indentured Orzhov spirits was TO REEL BACK IN HORROR!!
It was perhaps the moral thing to do, but not very strategic for the guild's overall wellbeing, Without debt, consequences, and the power that the dead provide for the guild, the Syndicate has lost a lot of power. While I'm all for reforming the guild and making the indentured living and dead's repayment easier and more ennobling, even a shallow understanding of economics points to negative externalities when market forces are so blatantly ignored.
And maybe as someone in another thread pointed out, this was Bolas's plan all along. Mass inflation to increase the chaos of the plane. I believe Kaya is onto something and her ethics bears a point but even ethical action can have dangerous, and negative consequences. Road to hell is paved by good intentions.
And knowing Bolas he knew this would happen if he made Kaya guild master, ghosts would be a problem the eternal would have issues with.
Thinking on it, Amonkhet didn't have any spirits so even the eternal mages might not have magics to deal with them unless Bolas could add in knowledge to them afterwards.
Well, he managed to load all that is there to know about seafaring into Vraska's brain, I think he could load the knowledge of ghosts and how to deal with them into a bunch of zombies...
Dovin Baan and Azorious the Sphinx's treatment as cardboard villains are cases in point
Dovin Baan really hasn't been treated as a villain, and frankly the man has a legit beef against the Gatewatch, now he is choosing a very poor outlet for that beef but frankly I do not think he would have any problem equating what happened on Kaladesh with what Bolas is going to do.
Flavour text from Azorius Guildgate:
"If the populace fears our authority, then I'd say we have an appropriately sensible populace."
-Dovin Baan
He literally is treated like a -self aware- villain.
That position works if you think Azor and Oldwalker intervention was always wrong. I don't yeah it was a mess on Ixalan but I make the case he wasn't as his most mentally stable on Ixalan what with sealing his spark and Ugin disappearing and not calling. Whereas his intervention ended what centuries, millennium of never ending wars on Ravnica. Is the Guild System Perfect? No but its sure a whole lot better then endless war. And the snapshot of the other plane he intervened on seemed pretty peaceful until Bolas rolled in rekt things. So Ixalan seems more like an aberration for Azor.
It should also be noted that Ixalan was a special case. On the other worlds, Azor could build whatever he wanted or was sensible for the plane in question from the ground up, while on Ixalan he had this powerful easily abusable artifact that he had to either hide somehow or give into the care of some mortals. He tried both, but the power of the sun is too alluring and he couldn't quite get rid of it. If Azor gets flak for mortals abusing the sun, then so should Karn get flak for causing the Mirari wars and the Karona disaster, which was several magnitudes worse than what happened on Ixalan.
"If the populace fears our authority, then I'd say we have an appropriately sensible populace."
-Dovin Baan
He literally is treated like a -self aware- villain.
If I lived on Ravnica I would be afraid of The Azorious's authority before Dovin got involved because they have had full authority with zero checks on their power outside of the Orzhov's ability to take advantage of loopholes in the laws that the Azorious pass, Even before Dovin showed up we have evidence of the Azorious Guild being villains with Vraska's imprisonment.
Dovin is an antagonist yes, but he has a legitimate beef with the Gatewatch, because in their first two outings as the "full" Gatewatch they were ignoring their supposed mission for personal reasons.
It should also be noted that Ixalan was a special case. On the other worlds, Azor could build whatever he wanted or was sensible for the plane in question from the ground up, while on Ixalan he had this powerful easily abusable artifact that he had to either hide somehow or give into the care of some mortals. He tried both, but the power of the sun is too alluring and he couldn't quite get rid of it. If Azor gets flak for mortals abusing the sun, then so should Karn get flak for causing the Mirari wars and the Karona disaster, which was several magnitudes worse than what happened on Ixalan.
Karn -SHOULD- get Flak for the Karona disaster, but at least that was a legitimate mistake from the Mirari being flawed, especially as he was watching what was going down with the Mirari and did NOTHING about it, Oldwalkers being at best accidentally damaging to everything around them was a pretty constant thing as was discussed with the Sleeping Elephant comparison in the Shattered Alliance Novel.
As for Ixalan, it is not a remote special case. Lets remember the initial plan was to Bring Pre-Mending Nicol Bolas to the plane to trap him there permanently. What do you think the effects of an Angry, Trapped Elder Dragon Planewalker are going to be on a Plane? Did Ugin and Azor care about the mortal population of the Plane they were bringing Nicol Bolas too? No they didn't. Then as you put it he gave the easily abused artifact to Mortals TWICE before hiding it. Azor's actions on Ixalan will have consequences for hundreds to thousands of years.
And he has done this on "several planes" imposing HIS view of Law and Order on various planes, one of which was Ravnica who in 10K years of peace and stability seems to have a lower average Standard of living as Kaladesh does, and the "backup" Guildpact is a magically enforced dictatorship, let me repeat that.
The Current Government of Ravnica, is a MAGICALLY ENFORCED DICTATORSHIP. That is what Oldwalker Azor does, "My first Guildpact failed so enjoy this dictator chosen by an arbitrary maze puzzle, I hope the Rakdos blood witch didn't win."
Not a Moderator (please don't kill me) but I figured we deserved this Thread.
As we are not expecting main plotline stories for Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) set anymore than we did GRN, and because much of the War of the Spark (WAR) set's story will be revealed on paperback and through online stories, I figured we could consolidate them no?
On the main plotline revealed by RNA's cards so far, I realized I was in the right guild for me when my first reaction to Kaya's Ethereal Absolution of the indentured Orzhov spirits was TO REEL BACK IN HORROR!!
It was perhaps the moral thing to do, but not very strategic for the guild's overall wellbeing, Without debt, consequences, and the power that the dead provide for the guild, the Syndicate has lost a lot of power. While I'm all for reforming the guild and making the indentured living and dead's repayment easier and more ennobling, even a shallow understanding of economics points to negative externalities when market forces are so blatantly ignored.
And maybe as someone in another thread pointed out, this was Bolas's plan all along. Mass inflation to increase the chaos of the plane. I believe Kaya is onto something and her ethics bears a point but even ethical action can have dangerous, and negative consequences. Road to hell is paved by good intentions.
And knowing Bolas he knew this would happen if he made Kaya guild master, ghosts would be a problem the eternal would have issues with.
Thinking on it, Amonkhet didn't have any spirits so even the eternal mages might not have magics to deal with them unless Bolas could add in knowledge to them afterwards.
Well, he managed to load all that is there to know about seafaring into Vraska's brain, I think he could load the knowledge of ghosts and how to deal with them into a bunch of zombies...
Zombies don’t have brains and killing the Obzedat is much harder than sailing a boat.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Dovin Baan and Azorious the Sphinx's treatment as cardboard villains are cases in point
Dovin Baan really hasn't been treated as a villain, and frankly the man has a legit beef against the Gatewatch, now he is choosing a very poor outlet for that beef but frankly I do not think he would have any problem equating what happened on Kaladesh with what Bolas is going to do.
Flavour text from Azorius Guildgate:
"If the populace fears our authority, then I'd say we have an appropriately sensible populace."
-Dovin Baan
He literally is treated like a -self aware- villain..
There’s an argument to be made that people should be afraid to break the law. At the very least Dovin doesn’t view himself as a villain. He’s trying to bring order and peace to Ravnica.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Over many years, and across many planes, Nicol Bolas sought clues to the sphinx's agenda. Finally, on a plane wracked by war, Bolas came upon a lawmage staring forlornly down at a broken statue—yet another garish reminder of the fabled lawbringer.
The Arbiter of Law turned our world against itself, the lawmage thought, and a flood of images flowed from her mind as Nicol Bolas attuned to her and began to unravel the threads of her existence. To think that I worshipped him as a savior when his solutions only broke a world that did not need fixing. To think that the day I spent hiding in the Palace of Justice, listening to him and the Spirit Dragon plot the end of the True Evil, I thought I was as close as any mortal would ever be to the divine . . .
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well considering Bolas went on to destroy and otherwise wreck multiple planes after I don't really see the issue with sacrificing one plane to stop Bolas. Yes it sucks if your on that plane but for all we know there our specific magical reasons Ixalan got picked. Is your argument really that its better for the Multiverse for Bolas to be left unchecked?
As for lower standard of living, Kaladesh only had the bloom after the Mending. Ravnica was on top for thousands of year. Ravinica still seems better and at a higher level then most cities and has a higher standard across most of the plane. Kaladesh is at best the size of a standard city, it certainly doesn't stretch plane wide.
Back to current storyline people, that's what this thread is about, my bad. Don't get distracted by my (admittedly) ranting. Ultimately, much of what may cause some to like or dislike the interventionism of oldwalkers, certain interpretations of colour combinations and certain planeswalkers may tie into our various political alignments, cultures and ideologies.
Certainly my love for Abzan and Orzhov as colour combos stem partly from this. I shamelessly admit that. Moderate Canadian Tory, Elitist, with a slightly-crass mockery towards social conservatism all the way.
We are all different.
Oh look over there, is that a War of the Spark!?! I bet there's some surprises coming our way in both game mechanics and story points despite most of us being confidence that the 'power of friendship' will 'win'.
Can WAR possibly be big enough to wrap all this up? There seems like way too much story for one set to tackle alone.
Here's what the next expansion needs to cover:
1.) The Eternal invasion.
2.) The Gatewatch arriving.
3.) The results of Bolas' Guild manipulations (they actual payoff from five guilds falling)
4.) Vraska getting her memories back.
5.) Bolas' Immortal Sun shenanigans.
6.) The final fates of the Gatewatch, which also probably includes Liliana's Chain Veil/Raven Man arc.
7.) Ugin doing something Very Important.
8.) The reveal of what Bolas is really after.
9.) The final confrontation with Bolas.
10.) Something involving the Blackblade.
There's enough story here for at least 2 sets. To be honest, I expected Bolas' invasion to begin in RNA.
Can WAR possibly be big enough to wrap all this up? There seems like way too much story for one set to tackle alone.
Here's what the next expansion needs to cover:
1.) The Eternal invasion.
2.) The Gatewatch arriving.
3.) The results of Bolas' Guild manipulations (they actual payoff from five guilds falling)
4.) Vraska getting her memories back.
5.) Bolas' Immortal Sun shenanigans.
6.) The final fates of the Gatewatch, which also probably includes Liliana's Chain Veil/Raven Man arc.
7.) Ugin doing something Very Important.
8.) The reveal of what Bolas is really after.
9.) The final confrontation with Bolas.
10.) Something involving the Blackblade.
There's enough story here for at least 2 sets. To be honest, I expected Bolas' invasion to begin in RNA.
And that's less than the typical plot points done in just one chapter of most Manga...
Most of that is one or two scenes worth of resolution each, most of which is the Chekov's Gun type, and even more of it can be resolved collectively. They've done most of the work in the first two steps, and to be fair, most of the setting work depicting the majority of it is likely to be illustrated via cards in their flavour and mechanics.
The only parts that would likely take emphasis storywise considering the above are 1, 3, 8 and 9. The rest is essentially window dressing for the 'Bolas Invasion, Ravnica in Ruins, Bolas Defeated/Triumphant' plot points.
Can WAR possibly be big enough to wrap all this up? There seems like way too much story for one set to tackle alone.
Here's what the next expansion needs to cover:
1.) The Eternal invasion.
2.) The Gatewatch arriving.
3.) The results of Bolas' Guild manipulations (they actual payoff from five guilds falling)
4.) Vraska getting her memories back.
5.) Bolas' Immortal Sun shenanigans.
6.) The final fates of the Gatewatch, which also probably includes Liliana's Chain Veil/Raven Man arc.
7.) Ugin doing something Very Important.
8.) The reveal of what Bolas is really after.
9.) The final confrontation with Bolas.
10.) Something involving the Blackblade.
There's enough story here for at least 2 sets. To be honest, I expected Bolas' invasion to begin in RNA.
I believe we are getting two novels and web stories for War, so we a bit more room for everything. Also with core set not neccarly needed to have a lot of stories they could use a few slots from there as well.
Personally I think some the Raven man stuff might be saved for a future storyline.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I doubt we deal with Raven Man here which means Lili aint Dying. Unless they just reveal the Raven Man was Bolas all along which again doesn't really make sense cause Bolas was sealed at the time and never used Lili to get out. Chandra and Ajani are also save as they are confirmed alive in Chandra's Comic. Teferi is safe he has Zhalfir and New Phyrexia and just got back and that is not counting WOTC's diversity push and how bad that look. Funny enough if Nissa doesn't come back then really Gideon and Jace are most likely to die. Vryn is not that important given the Maro Scale and Jace dying for his adopted plane does make a degree of sense. And you could bring Gideon full circle by this time not getting all his friends killed against a God (Bolas basically qualifies) and striking down the God this time. Even if never makes it back to Theros. Not that I actually think Jace will die, WOTC doesn't have the balls. So some no name scrub walkers will probably die to raise stakes maybe Vraska after she gets her memories back for manpain tragedy. Oh and Jaya is option as well. Old mentor and while she wants to help Karn with New Phyrexia for some reason (by that I mean she was never close to Karn in the past and never had anything to do with Phyrexia), she is not that critical for that story. Vivian is brand new. And I think that covers the heroes.
Does anyone know when we are actually getting the story? The book releases in 3 months, but what for web?
As much as I love Magic stories, the hiatus is taking so long now it's becoming increasingly harder to stay excited. I feel more "just get it over with so we know what happens" than actual excitement about an upcoming finale in a story I fondly followed in the last few years. But maybe that's just me...
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
It's not just you. The seven-month gap since the end of ore 2019 is excessive, especially since we have all these story plot points revealed on the cards but no fiction in which to explore them in depth or put them in context.
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As we are not expecting main plotline stories for Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) set anymore than we did GRN, and because much of the War of the Spark (WAR) set's story will be revealed on paperback and through online stories, I figured we could consolidate them no?
On the main plotline revealed by RNA's cards so far, I realized I was in the right guild for me when my first reaction to Kaya's Ethereal Absolution of the indentured Orzhov spirits was TO REEL BACK IN HORROR!!
It was perhaps the moral thing to do, but not very strategic for the guild's overall wellbeing, Without debt, consequences, and the power that the dead provide for the guild, the Syndicate has lost a lot of power. While I'm all for reforming the guild and making the indentured living and dead's repayment easier and more ennobling, even a shallow understanding of economics points to negative externalities when market forces are so blatantly ignored.
And maybe as someone in another thread pointed out, this was Bolas's plan all along. Mass inflation to increase the chaos of the plane. I believe Kaya is onto something and her ethics bears a point but even ethical action can have dangerous, and negative consequences. Road to hell is paved by good intentions.
Edit: This is a fantasy game. If people willingly sell their souls in a fantasy setting, or neglect to read, or accepts the fine print of undertaking a huge debt, there should be consequences. Duty in the afterlife does not necessarily to be equated to real-world slavery. It is the fulfilment of an obligation, and if our real world is recalcitrant to overly-idealistic conceptions of 'fairness', do not expect these fantasy worlds to be either. The Orzhov need reform, I can get behind that, but there are always costs.
I may not be an Alt-Right or an Alt-Left queer but I'm a queer whose sick and tired of people 'Evilizing' other people and opinions they don't like. Regardless as to their identities or ideology.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
The idea of a signal to bring more Planeswalkers to Ravnica to fight Bolas has parallels to the mythical Planeswalker War, which I posted about here.
I'm going to be a little disappointed if we have a Planeswalkers War on Ravnica and a lure set out to draw more Planeswalkers in, but the set features color balanced (ish) planeswalker cards for Ajani, Jace, Lilliana, and Chandra.
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
And knowing Bolas he knew this would happen if he made Kaya guild master, ghosts would be a problem the eternal would have issues with.
Thinking on it, Amonkhet didn't have any spirits so even the eternal mages might not have magics to deal with them unless Bolas could add in knowledge to them afterwards.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Wasn't this basically Teysa's reaction as well?
Personally I like a change to the guilds (and planes in general, nothing is more boring than stagnancy). I just hope they won't do a 180 next return to Ravnica and say "oh while we were gone the Orzhov got spirits back complete with a new Obzedat, lol".
I think that was her reaction? I'm unsure. Sometimes there's differences between the cards and the actual story but I hope that Wizards has the sense to show complex repercussions of even arguably ethical choices. Complexity in storyline is important, but to be honest, they've tried so hard to make the story approachable and grokable (good things) that the nuance and complexity sometimes just isn't there. Dovin Baan and Azorious the Sphinx's treatment as cardboard villains are cases in point. As is the entire Ixalan Block. I miss my Innistrad with it's Nahiri and Sorin.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
That is my problem Experience apparently does nothing for Legendaries in this Magic Story, its best ignored so young Neowalkers can show up their Elders with Legendaries jobbing left right and center and forgetting all their magic abilities. Now that is not to say all Legendaries get screwed Jhoira was treated pretty well in Dominaria but I think that was writer bias. Teferi, Jaya and Karn not so much especially Teferi what stood out as the most egregious is Teferi turning to Ralf and asking what a specter is. I am sorry Raff is straight out of magic college and 30 max. Why is Teferi asking Raff anything about Magic, Raff aint even a Demonolgist or Necromancer specialist which would make it have even a modicum of sense. But this also born out in Ugin saying down kill the Eldrazi Titans and Jace doing it anyway with no consequences. Still the consistent message has been Oldwalkers and Old Legendaries Bad, Neowalkers Good.
Isperia sticks out as the worse. Based on the cards and previous lore, Isperia finds out Dovin is a plant, goes to a secret meeting with Vraska despite knowing Vraksa aint really a fan of her guild and fails to research a stone gaze protection spell or use her telepathy. She really carries the idiot ball. As compared to say Borbo who didn't do anything dumb but seems to have lost for dumb reasons.
Dovin Baan really hasn't been treated as a villain, and frankly the man has a legit beef against the Gatewatch, now he is choosing a very poor outlet for that beef but frankly I do not think he would have any problem equating what happened on Kaladesh with what Bolas is going to do.
As for Azorious, Oldwalkers almost always had the blind spot of "The things I do might harm those little people but they are really for the best because I say so." I wouldn't say he was treated as a badguy and more of a Child who got told to go sit in a corner and stop causing problems.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Same for Urza at least with regards to Phyrexia. Were his individual moves or reasons for war moral? Not really but he wasn't wrong about Yawgmoth and Phyrexia needing to be put down. Shades of grey are nice for characters especially you know for a franchise with an adult audience.
Honestly, I would argue not thinking about each short lived mortal is pretty natural for an immortal. Its not very human sure but when you live for centuries and millennium its easy to focus on the big picture and probably natural.
To add on it seems like none of the Bolas walkers are 100% filled into what Bolas is really planning. From Dovin pov Bolas is just helping him bring order to Ravnica and the puzzle of how to do that. Not something you play with when you know a zombie invasion will appear.
I think thats a pretty spot on way to describe Azor.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well, he managed to load all that is there to know about seafaring into Vraska's brain, I think he could load the knowledge of ghosts and how to deal with them into a bunch of zombies...
Flavour text from Azorius Guildgate:
"If the populace fears our authority, then I'd say we have an appropriately sensible populace."
-Dovin Baan
He literally is treated like a -self aware- villain.
It should also be noted that Ixalan was a special case. On the other worlds, Azor could build whatever he wanted or was sensible for the plane in question from the ground up, while on Ixalan he had this powerful easily abusable artifact that he had to either hide somehow or give into the care of some mortals. He tried both, but the power of the sun is too alluring and he couldn't quite get rid of it. If Azor gets flak for mortals abusing the sun, then so should Karn get flak for causing the Mirari wars and the Karona disaster, which was several magnitudes worse than what happened on Ixalan.
If I lived on Ravnica I would be afraid of The Azorious's authority before Dovin got involved because they have had full authority with zero checks on their power outside of the Orzhov's ability to take advantage of loopholes in the laws that the Azorious pass, Even before Dovin showed up we have evidence of the Azorious Guild being villains with Vraska's imprisonment.
Dovin is an antagonist yes, but he has a legitimate beef with the Gatewatch, because in their first two outings as the "full" Gatewatch they were ignoring their supposed mission for personal reasons.
Karn -SHOULD- get Flak for the Karona disaster, but at least that was a legitimate mistake from the Mirari being flawed, especially as he was watching what was going down with the Mirari and did NOTHING about it, Oldwalkers being at best accidentally damaging to everything around them was a pretty constant thing as was discussed with the Sleeping Elephant comparison in the Shattered Alliance Novel.
As for Ixalan, it is not a remote special case. Lets remember the initial plan was to Bring Pre-Mending Nicol Bolas to the plane to trap him there permanently. What do you think the effects of an Angry, Trapped Elder Dragon Planewalker are going to be on a Plane? Did Ugin and Azor care about the mortal population of the Plane they were bringing Nicol Bolas too? No they didn't. Then as you put it he gave the easily abused artifact to Mortals TWICE before hiding it. Azor's actions on Ixalan will have consequences for hundreds to thousands of years.
And he has done this on "several planes" imposing HIS view of Law and Order on various planes, one of which was Ravnica who in 10K years of peace and stability seems to have a lower average Standard of living as Kaladesh does, and the "backup" Guildpact is a magically enforced dictatorship, let me repeat that.
The Current Government of Ravnica, is a MAGICALLY ENFORCED DICTATORSHIP. That is what Oldwalker Azor does, "My first Guildpact failed so enjoy this dictator chosen by an arbitrary maze puzzle, I hope the Rakdos blood witch didn't win."
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Zombies don’t have brains and killing the Obzedat is much harder than sailing a boat.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
There’s an argument to be made that people should be afraid to break the law. At the very least Dovin doesn’t view himself as a villain. He’s trying to bring order and peace to Ravnica.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/sabotage-2018-01-31
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
As for lower standard of living, Kaladesh only had the bloom after the Mending. Ravnica was on top for thousands of year. Ravinica still seems better and at a higher level then most cities and has a higher standard across most of the plane. Kaladesh is at best the size of a standard city, it certainly doesn't stretch plane wide.
Certainly my love for Abzan and Orzhov as colour combos stem partly from this. I shamelessly admit that. Moderate Canadian Tory, Elitist, with a slightly-crass mockery towards social conservatism all the way.
We are all different.
Oh look over there, is that a War of the Spark!?! I bet there's some surprises coming our way in both game mechanics and story points despite most of us being confidence that the 'power of friendship' will 'win'.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Here's what the next expansion needs to cover:
1.) The Eternal invasion.
2.) The Gatewatch arriving.
3.) The results of Bolas' Guild manipulations (they actual payoff from five guilds falling)
4.) Vraska getting her memories back.
5.) Bolas' Immortal Sun shenanigans.
6.) The final fates of the Gatewatch, which also probably includes Liliana's Chain Veil/Raven Man arc.
7.) Ugin doing something Very Important.
8.) The reveal of what Bolas is really after.
9.) The final confrontation with Bolas.
10.) Something involving the Blackblade.
There's enough story here for at least 2 sets. To be honest, I expected Bolas' invasion to begin in RNA.
And that's less than the typical plot points done in just one chapter of most Manga...
Most of that is one or two scenes worth of resolution each, most of which is the Chekov's Gun type, and even more of it can be resolved collectively. They've done most of the work in the first two steps, and to be fair, most of the setting work depicting the majority of it is likely to be illustrated via cards in their flavour and mechanics.
The only parts that would likely take emphasis storywise considering the above are 1, 3, 8 and 9. The rest is essentially window dressing for the 'Bolas Invasion, Ravnica in Ruins, Bolas Defeated/Triumphant' plot points.
This user has language problems due to their mental health problems and sometimes may not use the best wording to explain their thoughts.
Draft the "'What Is This Nonsense?'" casual cube.
I believe we are getting two novels and web stories for War, so we a bit more room for everything. Also with core set not neccarly needed to have a lot of stories they could use a few slots from there as well.
Personally I think some the Raven man stuff might be saved for a future storyline.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
As much as I love Magic stories, the hiatus is taking so long now it's becoming increasingly harder to stay excited. I feel more "just get it over with so we know what happens" than actual excitement about an upcoming finale in a story I fondly followed in the last few years. But maybe that's just me...
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.