Got my art and have been skimming through still but I figured I'd put the plot point the books spills. I will say a bunch of us figured out several things what happened. For the Bolas plot is groups it by the walkers;
Ral and Niv- Niv knows about other planes and walkers and figuring out a threat to Ravnica was coming, Niv start an experiment that would remove the guildpactand let Niv power himself up, thought its nodded he needed the help of the other guilds to pul it out. To do this experiment he heads away from the main part of the city and leaves Ral as acting guildeader. Niv has Ral turn project lighting bug into a beacon to call other walkers to help fight Bolas, knowing that summoning other walker to help fight would be needed. During the guild summit Niv appeared at the end of the day and revels to the summit the kind of threat they where facing.
Vraska- After getting back from Ixalan Vraska killed Jared and took over the guild. The Erstwhile greatly helped since they are more durable and intelligence zombies, when compared the the gologari rot zombies. Its noted the Kraul are loyal not to the guild but to Vraska herself. The Devkarin are bitter about this and are wanting the current matka, Izoni to take over. Under Bolas orders and wanting revenge Vraska met with Ispria after the guild summit and stoned her.
Domri- With Bolas urging, Domri challenges and defeats Borborygmos by setting waves of beasts on the cyclops. The art books show Domri with a swarms of boars. Borborygmos wasn't killed but losing the Gruuls respect he is now living in the "wilderness". Like Bobo, Domri rage and wanting to destory the city has much of the Gruul following him. Nikya of the Thur-Taa seeing this as the first part of Illharg the Raze-Boar god coming back. A few other leaders such as Ruric Thar don't care for Domri. Domri has been making sure the guilds all suffer during his riots so that they will in turn get angry and fight each other bring more chaos.
Kaya- Its noted that Kaya is driven by a desire for money one of two reasons she is now a ghost assassin. Kaya was contracted by Bolas to kill the Obzedat and in return Bolas would help Kayas "troubled family" (and my guess to why Kaya is greedy for coins). Sneaking into Orzhova Kaya finds Teysa still inprisoned. Teysa points Kaya to the Obzedat and Kaya is able to kill them all and leaving Teysa the highest ranking member. However Bolas has Kaya become guild master and to stay on Ravnica. In the mean time, despite Teysa warning against it, Kaya has been freeing people from the debt they own the guild, particularly the bound ghosts and setting them free from the guilds control.
Dovin- After Kaladesh, Dovin was left in disgrace. He realized that Tezzeret wasn't the true mastermind behind the planar bridge and decide to look Tezzerets master. Walking right into Bolas claws, its reveled that Dovin weakness is being a sycophant around those he admires and was taken in by Bolas intelligence and "flawless planning". Bolas then offered Dovin something Dovin couldn't turn down, the chance to reshape a plane into flawless and ordered efficiency. Since his first visit to Ravnica to recruit the gatewatch, Dovin saw the guild system and itched to improve it so he willing jumped at the chance to take over and all Bolas asked was Dovins loyalty for this.
Since Jace has been gone the Azorius have been in an emergency stance, trying to keep peace and order with the guildpact missing. Dovin arrives at this point using legal loop holes after loop hole is able to get power, along with his own ability to perfect flaws. The Azorius then get pretty big brother like, after Dovin shows the guild how to make spy thopter and putting more attention to precognition mages to arrest people before crimes where committed.
Ral then figured out a way to fulfill Niv plane of stealing the power of the guildpact and made a device that would help his harness magic from the guilds, even if they where not willing to help. Dovin found out and played along until the right before Bolas arrival on the plane and sabotage the device, leaving Jace as the living guilpact and Niv gained no more power. Ral activated project lighting bug to call out other walkers for help. But then Bolas had arrived...
and thats it until Milk.
I'll post more fun info I find but to end this first post with some Simic and Rakdos info.
Until recently Vannifar was kind of an outsider to the guild, wanting more direct and faster action (with the other like minded member being called the Adaptationist movement) than the more passive Zegana (the Utopian movement). Jace missing has caused the the guilds to have tension, Vannifar more action based philosophy gain popularity. Then after Zegana had needed Vannifar to help against the golgari, under Vraska, who where trying to take a zonot that was in the under city for themselves. After this Vannifar challenged Zegana in the speaker counsel and she was voted in as guild master. Under Vannifar the simic started to mutate the more intelligent members into super soldiers. Vannifar is an elf who had mutated her body into an ooze that gives her a jellyfish look. She can absorb oxygen through her skin and can rest parts of her brain at different times so she doesn't need to sleep.
Rakdos now help destabilize authority by mocking and undermining the authority of other guilds. The tames of these range from satire and mocking the leaders in their shows to having special shows that end with the killing of the individual. Some people have seen the art floating around but Cult Guildmage apparent dose a puppet show to mock Jace. Also the guild lost much of the clubs and rings they had once and are now nordic troupes since the Orzhov has been buying up any places that making profits.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Lol Dovin is even worse then I thought just walks right into the top job essentially?
Art Book:
Manipulating the system from the inside he exploited loop hole after another to disrupt the chain of command- occupying judges and senators with often-overlooked (but technically required by law) paper work, rescheduling key meetings, and arranging the ousting of people in key positions of power...Dovin emerged as the new head of the Lyev Column, replacing the unpopular hussar Agmand Sarv.
Why does Bolas even need Dovin to sabotage Ral's device? He is powerful telepath he should be able to mindcontrol Ral into loyalty.
From my impression Ral is double agenting it and the device isn't know by Bolas. And all it has on Ral and Bolas is Ral owes Bolas a favor so hard to say.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Lol Dovin is even worse then I thought just walks right into the top job essentially?
I mean, to be fair, if any (non millenia old being) would be able to do this, it's Dovin, due to his special ability and the way the Azorious operate.
My main issue is how, across the baord without exception, moderately to vastly powerful planebound entities are being trumped by planeswalkers:
Niv-Mizzet needs Ral to do the guildpact absorbtion thing, rather than doing it himself. Plus his plan is, in the end, stopped by Dovin (and Bolas).
Isperia is killed by Vraska. You'd think a being as wise and forward-planning as a sphinx would pack some counterspells or what not.
Kaya kills the ghost council (Yeah, I get it, she's specialized in that, but the ghost council isn't some stray spirit) and becomes guildmaster over Teysa through Bolas (though to be fair, Teysa might have not been too keen on the guildmaster position given recent events)
The Azorius are nothing but drooling lawful-stupid puppets 'easily' tricked by Dovin.
Borb is trumped by Domri, because... boars. Apparently in the centuries before nobody has ever contemplated challenging Borb using summoned beasts
Sure, some of these points might be able to get explained satisfyingly within the story, but the sheer mass of it is seriously straining my suspension of disbelief.
Yeah Niv should be smart enough to figure out how to steal powers himself. His plan getting foiled doesn't bother me.
Yeah Isperia is a telepath and Vraska doesn't have telepathic defenses unless Bolas added them later seems Isperia should easily be able to own Vraska. Especially since this is a straight up meeting not Vraska trying to ambush Isperia. I mean Isperia is not idiot and is millennium old seems she would learn a spell that stop stone gaze from Gorgons.
Kaya does have abilities that kill ghost and at least she is getting help from Tesya presumably had some way of dealing with the Ghost Council during her failed revolt previously. But again much like Isperia you still expect the Ghost Council to be high level spellcasters. Now you might cut them slack into not expecting someone to have a power that easily kills Ghosts but still. I can kinda see this one if Tesya at least has a spell that traps them in a room or contained space.
Not a surprise I think Ixalan made it clear WOTC hates Azorius. And again you expect Isperia to handle this before it gets too far especially again she could read minds which suggest Bolas did not insert telepathic resistance into his top followers.
And Borb is embarassing plus it wasn't even a death match? Borb gets to walk it off....
But again that is the problem with WOTC and the Neowalkers. They should be more easily matched by powerful characters who are not Walkers but they seem to have way easier time against notable Legendaries then the Oldwalkers had. I mean Baron Sengir put the fear of God in Serra and Feroz two Oldwalkers. The case can easily be made Serra is one of the more powerful Oldwalkers certainly amongst the humanoids. But Neowalkers despite supposedly being weaker routinely curbstomp Legendaries. So in short relatively speaking Neowalkers seem stronger then Oldwalkers when matched up against Lengendaries they just lack the experience and free immortality and regen but what does it matter if Plot Armor means you take zero damage.
its clear that Wizards amde the planewalkers uber mages been able to overcome guild masters... I can only that happening if Bolas armed his agents with information or magical buffs, samething when he gave the knowledge of boat riding to Vraska.
Even oldwalkers could get their asses kicked. Urza got beaten by Radiant and Urza was strugling against Gix. Yeah the story really died the momment they killed Ulamog and Kozilek, showing how OP Neowalkers are.
Until recently Vannifar was kind of an outsider to the guild, wanting more direct and faster action (with the other like minded member being called the Adaptationist movement) than the more passive Zegana (the Utopian movement). Jace missing has caused the the guilds to have tension, Vannifar more action based philosophy gain popularity. Then after Zegana had needed Vannifar to help against the golgari, under Vraska, who where trying to take a zonot that was in the under city for themselves. After this Vannifar challenged Zegana in the speaker counsel and she was voted in as guild master. Under Vannifar the simic started to mutate the more intelligent members into super soldiers. Vannifar is an elf who had mutated her body into an ooze that gives her a jellyfish look. She can absorb oxygen through her skin and can rest parts of her brain at different times so she doesn't need to sleep.
Thanks for the summary
Is there art for her in the artbook that you would be able to post? So far we have the picture from the marketing material, but that is not her card art, or is it?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
So in short relatively speaking Neowalkers seem stronger then Oldwalkers when matched up against Lengendaries they just lack the experience and free immortality and regen but what does it matter if Plot Armor means you take zero damage.
Yeah I agree, that's a problem.
The "after the mending, planeswalkers are just mages who also happen to be able to walk between planes" concept has de facto been thrown out of the window. In the end, it was only a power level reset that enabled another DBZ power spiral, not a permanent, carefully preserved change of MO. Around BFZ, Wizards wanted their characters to "feel awesome again" and let PW power suddenly shoot through the ceiling.
Chandra and Nissa go from killing Eldrazi Titans to struggling with Baral...SMFH. Yeah Yeah I know Nissa is stronger on Zendikar doesn't really explain such a massive drop off though.
Lol Dovin is even worse then I thought just walks right into the top job essentially?
I mean, to be fair, if any (non millenia old being) would be able to do this, it's Dovin, due to his special ability and the way the Azorious operate.
My main issue is how, across the baord without exception, moderately to vastly powerful planebound entities are being trumped by planeswalkers:
Niv-Mizzet needs Ral to do the guildpact absorbtion thing, rather than doing it himself. Plus his plan is, in the end, stopped by Dovin (and Bolas).
Isperia is killed by Vraska. You'd think a being as wise and forward-planning as a sphinx would pack some counterspells or what not.
Kaya kills the ghost council (Yeah, I get it, she's specialized in that, but the ghost council isn't some stray spirit) and becomes guildmaster over Teysa through Bolas (though to be fair, Teysa might have not been too keen on the guildmaster position given recent events)
The Azorius are nothing but drooling lawful-stupid puppets 'easily' tricked by Dovin.
Borb is trumped by Domri, because... boars. Apparently in the centuries before nobody has ever contemplated challenging Borb using summoned beasts
Sure, some of these points might be able to get explained satisfyingly within the story, but the sheer mass of it is seriously straining my suspension of disbelief.
Well in RtR and restated in the art book, Borbor was getting old and losing his edge. Ruric Thar challenged him and Borbor was able to bash one of his head, but not kill him. IIRC a lot of people here where guesses he'd be killed soon.
For the ghost council why would they have any kind of extra protection? They are ghost so immune to most thing that can harm them and they keep their bodies in a room not even the guildpact and mess with. They didn't come guild master by being power mages or smart, they where just rich enough to pay for the membership. And yes Kaya magic is the paper their rock, same way we saw both Liliana and Jace struggling against Tezzeret since his machines can't be killed or have minds to read/control, as well as the fact physical attacks don't effect her and might be magic attacks (such as fire balls) can't either.
Until recently Vannifar was kind of an outsider to the guild, wanting more direct and faster action (with the other like minded member being called the Adaptationist movement) than the more passive Zegana (the Utopian movement). Jace missing has caused the the guilds to have tension, Vannifar more action based philosophy gain popularity. Then after Zegana had needed Vannifar to help against the golgari, under Vraska, who where trying to take a zonot that was in the under city for themselves. After this Vannifar challenged Zegana in the speaker counsel and she was voted in as guild master. Under Vannifar the simic started to mutate the more intelligent members into super soldiers. Vannifar is an elf who had mutated her body into an ooze that gives her a jellyfish look. She can absorb oxygen through her skin and can rest parts of her brain at different times so she doesn't need to sleep.
Thanks for the summary
Is there art for her in the artbook that you would be able to post? So far we have the picture from the marketing material, but that is not her card art, or is it?
Welcome, I can snap a pic if you still want, though her card was spoiled.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well in RtR and restated in the art book, Borbor was getting old and losing his edge. Ruric Thar challenged him and Borbor was able to bash one of his head, but not kill him. IIRC a lot of people here where guesses he'd be killed soon.
For the ghost council why would they have any kind of extra protection? They are ghost so immune to most thing that can harm them and they keep their bodies in a room not even the guildpact and mess with. They didn't come guild master by being power mages or smart, they where just rich enough to pay for the membership. And yes Kaya magic is the paper their rock, same way we saw both Liliana and Jace struggling against Tezzeret since his machines can't be killed or have minds to read/control, as well as the fact physical attacks don't effect her and might be magic attacks (such as fire balls) can't either.
I mean, I get that. You can explain everything in a vacuum. My main gripe isn't so much that it shouldn't be possible, but more the sheer mass of it. Planeswalkers are consistently toying around with planebound entities as if the mending never happened. It's more of a narrative direction thing than an individual plot point one.
Until recently Vannifar was kind of an outsider to the guild, wanting more direct and faster action (with the other like minded member being called the Adaptationist movement) than the more passive Zegana (the Utopian movement). Jace missing has caused the the guilds to have tension, Vannifar more action based philosophy gain popularity. Then after Zegana had needed Vannifar to help against the golgari, under Vraska, who where trying to take a zonot that was in the under city for themselves. After this Vannifar challenged Zegana in the speaker counsel and she was voted in as guild master. Under Vannifar the simic started to mutate the more intelligent members into super soldiers. Vannifar is an elf who had mutated her body into an ooze that gives her a jellyfish look. She can absorb oxygen through her skin and can rest parts of her brain at different times so she doesn't need to sleep.
Thanks for the summary
Is there art for her in the artbook that you would be able to post? So far we have the picture from the marketing material, but that is not her card art, or is it?
Welcome, I can snap a pic if you still want, though her card was spoiled.
Would be nice, the cardart is always so small, thank you
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
I mean Borbo is getting old sure but Domri's whole plan was just dump a bunch of boar summons on the guy? Thats it. No one before Domri tried that? How does that work logically
Meanwhile we got Isperia who can read minds here and is actually a spellcaster getting tooled by Dovin and Vraska. Yeah yeah the Ghost Council might never considered a Ghost Killer existing but Isperia got no excuse for not casting a protection against stone gaze spell on herself. She knows what a Gorgon is.
Niv is more why is he not building the device himself.
Kaya killing the Ghost Council the one I buy the easiest but that is more cause she got help Tesya who presumably had some sort of plan to handle the Ghost Council during her failed revolt. Also why would the Ghost Council not be mages? Tesya is a mage one of her ancestors is on the council. Ergo I think the assumption yeah the Ghost Council is rich but also those Rich Guys are Spellcasters as well. One would assume Orzhov contracts are magical contracts not just pen and paper.
Until recently Vannifar was kind of an outsider to the guild, wanting more direct and faster action (with the other like minded member being called the Adaptationist movement) than the more passive Zegana (the Utopian movement). Jace missing has caused the the guilds to have tension, Vannifar more action based philosophy gain popularity. Then after Zegana had needed Vannifar to help against the golgari, under Vraska, who where trying to take a zonot that was in the under city for themselves. After this Vannifar challenged Zegana in the speaker counsel and she was voted in as guild master. Under Vannifar the simic started to mutate the more intelligent members into super soldiers. Vannifar is an elf who had mutated her body into an ooze that gives her a jellyfish look. She can absorb oxygen through her skin and can rest parts of her brain at different times so she doesn't need to sleep.
Thanks for the summary
Is there art for her in the artbook that you would be able to post? So far we have the picture from the marketing material, but that is not her card art, or is it?
Welcome, I can snap a pic if you still want, though her card was spoiled.
Would be nice, the cardart is always so small, thank you
Did my best since the art is spread across 1.5 pages;
I mean Borbo is getting old sure but Domri's whole plan was just dump a bunch of boar summons on the guy? Thats it. No one before Domri tried that? How does that work logically
Prolly some day but Borbor was still in his prime. And all the book says is Borbor was overwhelmed by the number of boars and thats it, they probity are leaving it up to Greg Weisman to fill in the details.
Meanwhile we got Isperia who can read minds here and is actually a spellcaster getting tooled by Dovin and Vraska. Yeah yeah the Ghost Council might never considered a Ghost Killer existing but Isperia got no excuse for not casting a protection against stone gaze spell on herself. She knows what a Gorgon is.
Have to wait and see. Too many people tend to ***** about something from art book or player guide when the details don't always line up.
Niv is more why is he not building the device himself.
Again wait and see.
Kaya killing the Ghost Council the one I buy the easiest but that is more cause she got help Tesya who presumably had some sort of plan to handle the Ghost Council during her failed revolt. Also why would the Ghost Council not be mages? Tesya is a mage one of her ancestors is on the council. Ergo I think the assumption yeah the Ghost Council is rich but also those Rich Guys are Spellcasters as well. One would assume Orzhov contracts are magical contracts not just pen and paper.
Let me rephrase, they don't need to be powerful spellcasters, they only need to be rich. Ravnica 1 showed to get in the counsel you just need to be able to paid the huge membership fees (or risk being dismissed and sent to the aether) and it helps being in the right family. And I think male? They are no genius dragon wizards, warrior angels or giant blood thirsty demons, but the ghosts of rich men who know how to play the system.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Until recently Vannifar was kind of an outsider to the guild, wanting more direct and faster action (with the other like minded member being called the Adaptationist movement) than the more passive Zegana (the Utopian movement). Jace missing has caused the the guilds to have tension, Vannifar more action based philosophy gain popularity. Then after Zegana had needed Vannifar to help against the golgari, under Vraska, who where trying to take a zonot that was in the under city for themselves. After this Vannifar challenged Zegana in the speaker counsel and she was voted in as guild master. Under Vannifar the simic started to mutate the more intelligent members into super soldiers. Vannifar is an elf who had mutated her body into an ooze that gives her a jellyfish look. She can absorb oxygen through her skin and can rest parts of her brain at different times so she doesn't need to sleep.
Thanks for the summary
Is there art for her in the artbook that you would be able to post? So far we have the picture from the marketing material, but that is not her card art, or is it?
Welcome, I can snap a pic if you still want, though her card was spoiled.
Would be nice, the cardart is always so small, thank you
Did my best since the art is spread across 1.5 pages;
Thank you, I will never understand why they spread art across pages.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
Well in RtR and restated in the art book, Borbor was getting old and losing his edge. Ruric Thar challenged him and Borbor was able to bash one of his head, but not kill him. IIRC a lot of people here where guesses he'd be killed soon.
For the ghost council why would they have any kind of extra protection? They are ghost so immune to most thing that can harm them and they keep their bodies in a room not even the guildpact and mess with. They didn't come guild master by being power mages or smart, they where just rich enough to pay for the membership. And yes Kaya magic is the paper their rock, same way we saw both Liliana and Jace struggling against Tezzeret since his machines can't be killed or have minds to read/control, as well as the fact physical attacks don't effect her and might be magic attacks (such as fire balls) can't either.
I mean, I get that. You can explain everything in a vacuum. My main gripe isn't so much that it shouldn't be possible, but more the sheer mass of it. Planeswalkers are consistently toying around with planebound entities as if the mending never happened. It's more of a narrative direction thing than an individual plot point one.
The thing with Battle for Zendikar was sort of believable, but this time this reeks more of marketing decisions and feels real forced on some ends. Specially with Dovin and Kaya.
But let's see, maybe Ravnica 3 is just a one off... if they return to Theros and Neowalkers flock again there and end up becoming standard bearers of the factions (or GODS hurr hurr hurr) and/or Neo Alara where they become leaders or standard bearers of the shards then yeah, then we're talking straight out force feeding right in here...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Thanks for the guild info! What does it tell us for the story spotlights? Can you lay out more specifically what appears to be the main plot of RNA?
It seems both Ravnica sets are happening at the same time and the art book tells the story in sections forcing on the Bolas walkers as I did above. Kelly Diggs mentioned on twitter that one reason they stopped having the story spotlight numbered was to let the write a little flexibility with how the order of the events playing out and the art book reflects this since it vague on the timeline of things. There might more story stuff I haven't gotten too (been too busy to really go through the book and its a lot of info we know from the stories and world building articles) but what I put in my first post is the main story until Milk.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm mildly annoyed that they didn't kill Borborygmos. His fall has already been foreshadowed, and yet they still can't seem to bring themselves to kill off a popular legend.
Then again, the body count in the next set will probably be insane, so they could just be pacing themselves.
I'm still a little confused as to what Bolas' plans are for taking over the guilds. No word yet at all on what he expects Ral to do? Or what he wants Vraska to do? Or Domri, or Kaya? What is he trying to achieve with these takeovers?
I'm mildly annoyed that they didn't kill Borborygmos. His fall has already been foreshadowed, and yet they still can't seem to bring themselves to kill off a popular legend.
Then again, the body count in the next set will probably be insane, so they could just be pacing themselves.
I'm still a little confused as to what Bolas' plans are for taking over the guilds. No word yet at all on what he expects Ral to do? Or what he wants Vraska to do? Or Domri, or Kaya? What is he trying to achieve with these takeovers?
Sow Chaos so that it is easier for his Eternal Army kill everybody.
OP says Niv is working on the guildpact stealing experiment while Ral is working on turning Project Lightning Bug into a beacon for walkers. It doesn't say that he needs Ral but that he needs the cooperation of the other guilds. Considering he's trying to take the power of the guild pact that makes sense.
As for Obzedat, yes they are mages(This according to Guildmaster's Guide)but that doesn't mean they would be any better off against Kaya. OP didn't tell us, probably because it wasn't in the art book, how they were killed off. They could have been picked off one by one. Not to mention that they are, by far, the weakest of the guild leaders(again according to GMGtR) in combat.
I'm mildly annoyed that they didn't kill Borborygmos. His fall has already been foreshadowed, and yet they still can't seem to bring themselves to kill off a popular legend.
Then again, the body count in the next set will probably be insane, so they could just be pacing themselves.
I'm still a little confused as to what Bolas' plans are for taking over the guilds. No word yet at all on what he expects Ral to do? Or what he wants Vraska to do? Or Domri, or Kaya? What is he trying to achieve with these takeovers?
Indeed, everything in the art book indicates that Ral is actively working against Bolas, and yet we know that he's under Bolas' influence. Unless he's very deep cover...
But then... if Ral's deep cover for Bolas, why would Dovin have to sabotage the empowerment device? Why wouldn't Dovin/Ral/Bolas have just flipped it to empower Bolas even further, instead of Niv?
I have so many unanswered questions... and knowing that we're probably going to have to wait for that stupid book to be released before we get any answers is really annoying me.
From reading and something I found interesting (spoiler tags so this post inn't a wall);
Each guild as a updated "Attitudes Toward Other Guilds".
Azorius
Since Jace has been gone they gone into emergency state and the Lyev Column (the one Dovin ends up leading before becoming Guildmaster) has gotten a huge increase in power and influence since without Jace they are the ones stopping the guilds from going into full scale war. They been really hard on the Gruul, banning them from as many public place as possible. They are a the subjects of many of the new Rakdos satirical plays.
As said above and with Dovins part the Lyev Column is the more dominate branch of the three currently and is now in charge of surveillance and the minority report mages. Rumor has it some of the precognition mages have never been outside of New Prahv. Their section in the art book emphasizes the guilds increasing want of trying to surveil and see into all of Ravnica, making their symbol all the more big brothery feeling.
Orzhov
Orzhov how offer a new service of body guards and protection service and had an increase in membership since without Jace, many see the Orzhov as offering structure and safety. Unable to leave the walls of Orzhova Teysa has been given "poisoned" food that keeps her from dying so that she cannot join the Obzedat. Teysa also has a faction of supports and has been able to keep up with events with help from her apprentice Tomik Vrona. Since Jace being gone and the Azorius cranking things up to 11, a larger separation between the leaderships of the guild and the lower ranking members (and thosethat deal with illegal action for the guild).The Obzedat now no longer leaves the guildpact proof room in order to not be bound by Ravincan law.
Not sure if its been noted before but Giants are now apart of the guild as muscle and a part of the protection services. We learn also a bit more on Orzhov vampires who are lower ranking members who are not allowed the gift of becoming a spirt have settled for being turning into vampires.
Dimir
It turns the lower ranking dimir (the faces of the guild) do work with media as reporters. Shape shifts are guildmages who have learned to give up their original forms. This might explain Lazavs form in the art we get of his, what he looked like before he learned to Shape shift. Not much new, mostly what we found out during the last set.
I'm mildly annoyed that they didn't kill Borborygmos. His fall has already been foreshadowed, and yet they still can't seem to bring themselves to kill off a popular legend.
Then again, the body count in the next set will probably be insane, so they could just be pacing themselves.
I also bet none of the walker guild masters, besides maybe Vraska, won't hold the positions after this storyline. Leaving Niv and Borbor alive is to allow them to become guild masters again, with Tesya and Levina, very popular characters, set up to take the titles after Kaya and Dovin are gone.
I'm mildly annoyed that they didn't kill Borborygmos. His fall has already been foreshadowed, and yet they still can't seem to bring themselves to kill off a popular legend.
Then again, the body count in the next set will probably be insane, so they could just be pacing themselves.
I'm still a little confused as to what Bolas' plans are for taking over the guilds. No word yet at all on what he expects Ral to do? Or what he wants Vraska to do? Or Domri, or Kaya? What is he trying to achieve with these takeovers?
Sow Chaos so that it is easier for his Eternal Army kill everybody.
Mostly this, as well make sure the guilds don't work unite against him and weakening them with the changes in leadership.
Plus Bolas wants walkers it seems on Ravnica, between Bolas, his pawns and the gatewatch, at least 16 planewalkers will be on Ravnica.
OP says Niv is working on the guildpact stealing experiment while Ral is working on turning Project Lightning Bug into a beacon for walkers. It doesn't say that he needs Ral but that he needs the cooperation of the other guilds. Considering he's trying to take the power of the guild pact that makes sense.
Its honesty fuzzy. Ral ends making the device to fulfill Niv's plan even if the guilds are unwilling to help, which seemed to be a factor for Niv plan. Niv seems to mostly want Ral to get the guilds to unite but again its unclear. How its phrased it the book it also might be the beacon and the device are the same things as it mentions Dovin Sabotages the device but Ral is still able to send out the beacon.
As for Obzedat, yes they are mages(This according to Guildmaster's Guide)but that doesn't mean they would be any better off against Kaya. OP didn't tell us, probably because it wasn't in the art book, how they were killed off. They could have been picked off one by one. Not to mention that they are, by far, the weakest of the guild leaders(again according to GMGtR) in combat.
Their is art titled "Kaya's Wrath" that shows her killing them, which I guess will be a card. I'll upload a pic when I have better lighting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yeah but really what is the point of building up this big final Bolas fight if no one popular dies still that is typical for WOTC in the Gatewatch Age.
I am intrigued with the Lightning Bug Beacon as an updated Mox Beacon (from the original Planeswalker War). I actually am excited for this story (any discrepancies or contradictions or oversights are just part of the story; you have to go along with it to enjoy it) due to its scope.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ral and Niv- Niv knows about other planes and walkers and figuring out a threat to Ravnica was coming, Niv start an experiment that would remove the guildpactand let Niv power himself up, thought its nodded he needed the help of the other guilds to pul it out. To do this experiment he heads away from the main part of the city and leaves Ral as acting guildeader. Niv has Ral turn project lighting bug into a beacon to call other walkers to help fight Bolas, knowing that summoning other walker to help fight would be needed. During the guild summit Niv appeared at the end of the day and revels to the summit the kind of threat they where facing.
Vraska- After getting back from Ixalan Vraska killed Jared and took over the guild. The Erstwhile greatly helped since they are more durable and intelligence zombies, when compared the the gologari rot zombies. Its noted the Kraul are loyal not to the guild but to Vraska herself. The Devkarin are bitter about this and are wanting the current matka, Izoni to take over. Under Bolas orders and wanting revenge Vraska met with Ispria after the guild summit and stoned her.
Domri- With Bolas urging, Domri challenges and defeats Borborygmos by setting waves of beasts on the cyclops. The art books show Domri with a swarms of boars. Borborygmos wasn't killed but losing the Gruuls respect he is now living in the "wilderness". Like Bobo, Domri rage and wanting to destory the city has much of the Gruul following him. Nikya of the Thur-Taa seeing this as the first part of Illharg the Raze-Boar god coming back. A few other leaders such as Ruric Thar don't care for Domri. Domri has been making sure the guilds all suffer during his riots so that they will in turn get angry and fight each other bring more chaos.
Kaya- Its noted that Kaya is driven by a desire for money one of two reasons she is now a ghost assassin. Kaya was contracted by Bolas to kill the Obzedat and in return Bolas would help Kayas "troubled family" (and my guess to why Kaya is greedy for coins). Sneaking into Orzhova Kaya finds Teysa still inprisoned. Teysa points Kaya to the Obzedat and Kaya is able to kill them all and leaving Teysa the highest ranking member. However Bolas has Kaya become guild master and to stay on Ravnica. In the mean time, despite Teysa warning against it, Kaya has been freeing people from the debt they own the guild, particularly the bound ghosts and setting them free from the guilds control.
Dovin- After Kaladesh, Dovin was left in disgrace. He realized that Tezzeret wasn't the true mastermind behind the planar bridge and decide to look Tezzerets master. Walking right into Bolas claws, its reveled that Dovin weakness is being a sycophant around those he admires and was taken in by Bolas intelligence and "flawless planning". Bolas then offered Dovin something Dovin couldn't turn down, the chance to reshape a plane into flawless and ordered efficiency. Since his first visit to Ravnica to recruit the gatewatch, Dovin saw the guild system and itched to improve it so he willing jumped at the chance to take over and all Bolas asked was Dovins loyalty for this.
Since Jace has been gone the Azorius have been in an emergency stance, trying to keep peace and order with the guildpact missing. Dovin arrives at this point using legal loop holes after loop hole is able to get power, along with his own ability to perfect flaws. The Azorius then get pretty big brother like, after Dovin shows the guild how to make spy thopter and putting more attention to precognition mages to arrest people before crimes where committed.
Ral then figured out a way to fulfill Niv plane of stealing the power of the guildpact and made a device that would help his harness magic from the guilds, even if they where not willing to help. Dovin found out and played along until the right before Bolas arrival on the plane and sabotage the device, leaving Jace as the living guilpact and Niv gained no more power. Ral activated project lighting bug to call out other walkers for help. But then Bolas had arrived...
and thats it until Milk.
I'll post more fun info I find but to end this first post with some Simic and Rakdos info.
Until recently Vannifar was kind of an outsider to the guild, wanting more direct and faster action (with the other like minded member being called the Adaptationist movement) than the more passive Zegana (the Utopian movement). Jace missing has caused the the guilds to have tension, Vannifar more action based philosophy gain popularity. Then after Zegana had needed Vannifar to help against the golgari, under Vraska, who where trying to take a zonot that was in the under city for themselves. After this Vannifar challenged Zegana in the speaker counsel and she was voted in as guild master. Under Vannifar the simic started to mutate the more intelligent members into super soldiers. Vannifar is an elf who had mutated her body into an ooze that gives her a jellyfish look. She can absorb oxygen through her skin and can rest parts of her brain at different times so she doesn't need to sleep.
Rakdos now help destabilize authority by mocking and undermining the authority of other guilds. The tames of these range from satire and mocking the leaders in their shows to having special shows that end with the killing of the individual. Some people have seen the art floating around but Cult Guildmage apparent dose a puppet show to mock Jace. Also the guild lost much of the clubs and rings they had once and are now nordic troupes since the Orzhov has been buying up any places that making profits.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Why does Bolas even need Dovin to sabotage Ral's device? He is powerful telepath he should be able to mindcontrol Ral into loyalty.
Art Book:
From my impression Ral is double agenting it and the device isn't know by Bolas. And all it has on Ral and Bolas is Ral owes Bolas a favor so hard to say.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I mean, to be fair, if any (non millenia old being) would be able to do this, it's Dovin, due to his special ability and the way the Azorious operate.
My main issue is how, across the baord without exception, moderately to vastly powerful planebound entities are being trumped by planeswalkers:
Sure, some of these points might be able to get explained satisfyingly within the story, but the sheer mass of it is seriously straining my suspension of disbelief.
Yeah Isperia is a telepath and Vraska doesn't have telepathic defenses unless Bolas added them later seems Isperia should easily be able to own Vraska. Especially since this is a straight up meeting not Vraska trying to ambush Isperia. I mean Isperia is not idiot and is millennium old seems she would learn a spell that stop stone gaze from Gorgons.
Kaya does have abilities that kill ghost and at least she is getting help from Tesya presumably had some way of dealing with the Ghost Council during her failed revolt previously. But again much like Isperia you still expect the Ghost Council to be high level spellcasters. Now you might cut them slack into not expecting someone to have a power that easily kills Ghosts but still. I can kinda see this one if Tesya at least has a spell that traps them in a room or contained space.
Not a surprise I think Ixalan made it clear WOTC hates Azorius. And again you expect Isperia to handle this before it gets too far especially again she could read minds which suggest Bolas did not insert telepathic resistance into his top followers.
And Borb is embarassing plus it wasn't even a death match? Borb gets to walk it off....
But again that is the problem with WOTC and the Neowalkers. They should be more easily matched by powerful characters who are not Walkers but they seem to have way easier time against notable Legendaries then the Oldwalkers had. I mean Baron Sengir put the fear of God in Serra and Feroz two Oldwalkers. The case can easily be made Serra is one of the more powerful Oldwalkers certainly amongst the humanoids. But Neowalkers despite supposedly being weaker routinely curbstomp Legendaries. So in short relatively speaking Neowalkers seem stronger then Oldwalkers when matched up against Lengendaries they just lack the experience and free immortality and regen but what does it matter if Plot Armor means you take zero damage.
Even oldwalkers could get their asses kicked. Urza got beaten by Radiant and Urza was strugling against Gix. Yeah the story really died the momment they killed Ulamog and Kozilek, showing how OP Neowalkers are.
Thanks for the summary
Is there art for her in the artbook that you would be able to post? So far we have the picture from the marketing material, but that is not her card art, or is it?
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
The "after the mending, planeswalkers are just mages who also happen to be able to walk between planes" concept has de facto been thrown out of the window. In the end, it was only a power level reset that enabled another DBZ power spiral, not a permanent, carefully preserved change of MO. Around BFZ, Wizards wanted their characters to "feel awesome again" and let PW power suddenly shoot through the ceiling.
Chandra and Nissa go from killing Eldrazi Titans to struggling with Baral...SMFH. Yeah Yeah I know Nissa is stronger on Zendikar doesn't really explain such a massive drop off though.
Well in RtR and restated in the art book, Borbor was getting old and losing his edge. Ruric Thar challenged him and Borbor was able to bash one of his head, but not kill him. IIRC a lot of people here where guesses he'd be killed soon.
For the ghost council why would they have any kind of extra protection? They are ghost so immune to most thing that can harm them and they keep their bodies in a room not even the guildpact and mess with. They didn't come guild master by being power mages or smart, they where just rich enough to pay for the membership. And yes Kaya magic is the paper their rock, same way we saw both Liliana and Jace struggling against Tezzeret since his machines can't be killed or have minds to read/control, as well as the fact physical attacks don't effect her and might be magic attacks (such as fire balls) can't either.
Welcome, I can snap a pic if you still want, though her card was spoiled.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I mean, I get that. You can explain everything in a vacuum. My main gripe isn't so much that it shouldn't be possible, but more the sheer mass of it. Planeswalkers are consistently toying around with planebound entities as if the mending never happened. It's more of a narrative direction thing than an individual plot point one.
Would be nice, the cardart is always so small, thank you
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
I mean Borbo is getting old sure but Domri's whole plan was just dump a bunch of boar summons on the guy? Thats it. No one before Domri tried that? How does that work logically
Meanwhile we got Isperia who can read minds here and is actually a spellcaster getting tooled by Dovin and Vraska. Yeah yeah the Ghost Council might never considered a Ghost Killer existing but Isperia got no excuse for not casting a protection against stone gaze spell on herself. She knows what a Gorgon is.
Niv is more why is he not building the device himself.
Kaya killing the Ghost Council the one I buy the easiest but that is more cause she got help Tesya who presumably had some sort of plan to handle the Ghost Council during her failed revolt. Also why would the Ghost Council not be mages? Tesya is a mage one of her ancestors is on the council. Ergo I think the assumption yeah the Ghost Council is rich but also those Rich Guys are Spellcasters as well. One would assume Orzhov contracts are magical contracts not just pen and paper.
Did my best since the art is spread across 1.5 pages;
Prolly some day but Borbor was still in his prime. And all the book says is Borbor was overwhelmed by the number of boars and thats it, they probity are leaving it up to Greg Weisman to fill in the details.
Have to wait and see. Too many people tend to ***** about something from art book or player guide when the details don't always line up.
Again wait and see.
Let me rephrase, they don't need to be powerful spellcasters, they only need to be rich. Ravnica 1 showed to get in the counsel you just need to be able to paid the huge membership fees (or risk being dismissed and sent to the aether) and it helps being in the right family. And I think male? They are no genius dragon wizards, warrior angels or giant blood thirsty demons, but the ghosts of rich men who know how to play the system.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Thank you, I will never understand why they spread art across pages.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
The thing with Battle for Zendikar was sort of believable, but this time this reeks more of marketing decisions and feels real forced on some ends. Specially with Dovin and Kaya.
But let's see, maybe Ravnica 3 is just a one off... if they return to Theros and Neowalkers flock again there and end up becoming standard bearers of the factions (or GODS hurr hurr hurr) and/or Neo Alara where they become leaders or standard bearers of the shards then yeah, then we're talking straight out force feeding right in here...
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
It seems both Ravnica sets are happening at the same time and the art book tells the story in sections forcing on the Bolas walkers as I did above. Kelly Diggs mentioned on twitter that one reason they stopped having the story spotlight numbered was to let the write a little flexibility with how the order of the events playing out and the art book reflects this since it vague on the timeline of things. There might more story stuff I haven't gotten too (been too busy to really go through the book and its a lot of info we know from the stories and world building articles) but what I put in my first post is the main story until Milk.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Then again, the body count in the next set will probably be insane, so they could just be pacing themselves.
I'm still a little confused as to what Bolas' plans are for taking over the guilds. No word yet at all on what he expects Ral to do? Or what he wants Vraska to do? Or Domri, or Kaya? What is he trying to achieve with these takeovers?
Sow Chaos so that it is easier for his Eternal Army kill everybody.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
As for Obzedat, yes they are mages(This according to Guildmaster's Guide)but that doesn't mean they would be any better off against Kaya. OP didn't tell us, probably because it wasn't in the art book, how they were killed off. They could have been picked off one by one. Not to mention that they are, by far, the weakest of the guild leaders(again according to GMGtR) in combat.
Indeed, everything in the art book indicates that Ral is actively working against Bolas, and yet we know that he's under Bolas' influence. Unless he's very deep cover...
But then... if Ral's deep cover for Bolas, why would Dovin have to sabotage the empowerment device? Why wouldn't Dovin/Ral/Bolas have just flipped it to empower Bolas even further, instead of Niv?
I have so many unanswered questions... and knowing that we're probably going to have to wait for that stupid book to be released before we get any answers is really annoying me.
From reading and something I found interesting (spoiler tags so this post inn't a wall);
Each guild as a updated "Attitudes Toward Other Guilds".
Azorius
As said above and with Dovins part the Lyev Column is the more dominate branch of the three currently and is now in charge of surveillance and the minority report mages. Rumor has it some of the precognition mages have never been outside of New Prahv. Their section in the art book emphasizes the guilds increasing want of trying to surveil and see into all of Ravnica, making their symbol all the more big brothery feeling.
Orzhov
Not sure if its been noted before but Giants are now apart of the guild as muscle and a part of the protection services. We learn also a bit more on Orzhov vampires who are lower ranking members who are not allowed the gift of becoming a spirt have settled for being turning into vampires.
Dimir
I also bet none of the walker guild masters, besides maybe Vraska, won't hold the positions after this storyline. Leaving Niv and Borbor alive is to allow them to become guild masters again, with Tesya and Levina, very popular characters, set up to take the titles after Kaya and Dovin are gone.
Mostly this, as well make sure the guilds don't work unite against him and weakening them with the changes in leadership.
Plus Bolas wants walkers it seems on Ravnica, between Bolas, his pawns and the gatewatch, at least 16 planewalkers will be on Ravnica.
Its honesty fuzzy. Ral ends making the device to fulfill Niv's plan even if the guilds are unwilling to help, which seemed to be a factor for Niv plan. Niv seems to mostly want Ral to get the guilds to unite but again its unclear. How its phrased it the book it also might be the beacon and the device are the same things as it mentions Dovin Sabotages the device but Ral is still able to send out the beacon.
Their is art titled "Kaya's Wrath" that shows her killing them, which I guess will be a card. I'll upload a pic when I have better lighting.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"