And we seen similar things happen with Tezzeret with a combo of Bolas aid and Tezzeret being a walker and having spells and abilities not found on Kaladesh, was able to rise through the ranks of the consulate. Bolas could have had agents in high positions in the Azorius who could have helped Dovin advance.
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Well I guess Tezzeret and Bolas did fight over the Infinite Consortium right? So if the Consortium still exists they could have paved they way on Ravnica for Bolas to put in his agents.
Yeah but Tezzeret fits better on Kaladesh since at least his powers revolve around Artifice. Whereas the Azorius are not artifice focused which is Baan skill although seeing flaws in systems I guess is useful for Law Mage. Course Dovin here aint changing his appearance to look more like a Ravnican Veldekan and not a Kaladesh Veldekan.
I don't like Ravnica being used only as a vechicle for recent characters to fight their battles on it. It just cheapens the whole plane. I also agree with people who say it's completely implausible that Dovin just comes in from Kaladesh and takes the lead almost instantly. Even Kaya I don't buy. It's such bad storytelling, where it's obvious what WotC's idea was. We need to have a big showdown. And we will have it on Ravnica, because it's the most popular plane (that's literally it, no reason to return to Ravnica for this showdown). And we need to shoehorn as many new and relevant characters into Ravnica as possible., preferably as guild leaders so they can manipulate the guilds for story purposes.
Oh I don't think Kaya is great I mean the Ghost Council is over 10,000 Year Olds you think they have defenses against Ghost Slaying Magic.
But the how is different then why and I can see plenty of the Human, Vampire, etc High Ranking Families backing a Kaya based coup cause I don't think Teysa is alone in wanting the Ghost Council gone. I don't necessarily see Kaya holding power cause after she has taken out the Ghost in a Noble Based system she is an outsider so either she gets killed in turn or she gets forced into a political marriage. But I can see Kaya having top backing.
Whereas the Azorius would seem closer to the Izzet where killing your way to the top doesn't seem nearly as viable as for Kaya, Vraska and Domri in the Orzhov, Golgari and Gruul. Now Ral Zarek has at least been a high ranking guild member for awhile so its not weird that Niv Mizzet disappears and puts him charge. Dovin Baan though is some nobody who takes over in what under a year? Seems a lot harder in highly rulebound guild then it does where advancement via political backroom assassinations or straight up duels is common. So Baan and his rise requires much more of an explanation on how he did it in my book then any of the other Bolas Agents.
The issue with Ravnica being the final fight unlike Dominaria in the past. Well for Dominaria most of the main characters were Dominarians natively so actually cared about Dominaria. Whereas now the leads are all Walkers and only Jace, Vraska, Domri and Ral Zarek are natives that is what 20% of the Walkers and most. And well we kinda rushed to the final fight with some weak buildup.
Let’s not forget that between Kaladesh, were we last saw Dovin, and Ravnica were he is now, we have the events of Amonkhet, Ixalan and Dominaria. It might be in the same year in the timeline, but we don't know what Dovin did after the events of Kaladesh. If he left immediately and "joined" Bolas he could have had a few months as pencil pusher in the Azorius and gain there respect, before their leader got turned to stone and they went to look for someone new. It still needs some explanation, but there is enough time to show that he didn’t just walked into New Prahv and showed them with a red marker how flawed their law is and became grand arbiter.
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I mean I don't think it matters my point is a year is about the max time he had. Unless he was moonlighting for Bolas before didn't meet Tezz until later. My point is one year is too short in my book for Dovin Baan to climb to Grand Arbiter, IMO.
Kaya at least has what 2 or 3 Years as well as the kill your way to the top option and the reasonable assumption that Tesya aint alone in not liking the Ghost Council. So Kaya has some ready made allies and the ability to kill the current leaders. Whereas Isperia inexplicably can tell Dovin works for Bolas by presumably reading his mind but somehow let him climb to Grand Arbiter anyway? Seems like she handle him before he got that high up the guild.
walked into New Prahv and showed them with a red marker how flawed their law is and became grand arbiter.
I mean, would any of us really complain too much if he just walked in wearing a leather jacket, walked up to the Grand Arbiter podium..smacked it with a fist, had it start printing laws..and go "EEEYYYHHH"
yawn. The elf looks so boring. Was expecting some kind of a crazy looking mutant, like the elf in the traielr with crab arms. Instead we got a boring humanoid looking character like the all so memorable new characters like Izoni and Etrata.
Just found that art on the wpn page, the face betrayed
I almost don't want to post this, but does anyone else look at her collar and notice that it looks like its giving her horns? That, combined with the fact that she's supplanted Zegana as Parun, is making me wonder if the Simic might actually be one of the Bolas'd guilds, with either the Gruul or Orzhov being a fake out (like, either Domri or Kaya don't succeed). We know that three guilds will be Bolas'd and two won't be, and Azorius is confirmed with Dovin taking over, so if the Simic got taken over then either the Gruul or Orzhov would have to remain free from Bolas. The two signs that a guild has been taken over is that the guild master has been replaced, and the new guildmaster is a planes walker. The Boros, Selesnya, and Dimir, who remained free from Bolas, all kept their guild masters, but we don't know if the guilds that remain free from Bolas in Ravnica Allegiance will, so its possible that Zegana getting replaced by this elf is itself a red herring. Even so, its still half of the equation, a new guildmaster, and we won't know what that means until we know if she's a planeswalker or not (or if we get confirmation on the other two Bolas'd guilds besides Azorius). I had thought that the Simic wouldn't be ripe for corruption by Bolas as they seemed more aloof to Ravnican politics, but new information about their inner workings (specifically their Parun serving at the whim of a council) reveals that they were especially vulnerable to it (all Bolas would need to do is corrupt a faction and use that as his vehicle, as he did with the Golgari).
I have to say that I'm not confident anymore about which guilds will fall to Bolas. I was in the camp that it would be Azorius/Gruul/Orzhov, but now I just don't know.
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yawn. The elf looks so boring. Was expecting some kind of a crazy looking mutant, like the elf in the traielr with crab arms. Instead we got a boring humanoid looking character like the all so memorable new characters like Izoni and Etrata.
Just found that art on the wpn page, the face betrayed
I almost don't want to post this, but does anyone else look at her collar and notice that it looks like its giving her horns? That, combined with the fact that she's supplanted Zegana as Parun, is making me wonder if the Simic might actually be one of the Bolas'd guilds, with either the Gruul or Orzhov being a fake out (like, either Domri or Kaya don't succeed). We know that three guilds will be Bolas'd and two won't be, and Azorius is confirmed with Dovin taking over, so if the Simic got taken over then either the Gruul or Orzhov would have to remain free from Bolas. The two signs that a guild has been taken over is that the guild master has been replaced, and the new guildmaster is a planes walker. The Boros, Selesnya, and Dimir, who remained free from Bolas, all kept their guild masters, but we don't know if the guilds that remain free from Bolas in Ravnica Allegiance will, so its possible that Zegana getting replaced by this elf is itself a red herring. Even so, its still half of the equation, a new guildmaster, and we won't know what that means until we know if she's a planeswalker or not (or if we get confirmation on the other two Bolas'd guilds besides Azorius). I had thought that the Simic wouldn't be ripe for corruption by Bolas as they seemed more aloof to Ravnican politics, but new information about their inner workings (specifically their Parun serving at the whim of a council) reveals that they were especially vulnerable to it (all Bolas would need to do is corrupt a faction and use that as his vehicle, as he did with the Golgari).
I have to say that I'm not confident anymore about which guilds will fall to Bolas. I was in the camp that it would be Azorius/Gruul/Orzhov, but now I just don't know.
MaRo has already confirmed that there's 3 planeswalker in RNA, so since we already know we're getting Dovin, Domri and Kaya, there's simply no room for one of them to be a red herring.
Kaya and Domri both show up on RNA Booster art, so I don't think there's any reason to believe they WON'T have an actual card in RNA(not the PW deck), and Dovin's already confirmed as a Bolas Agent for Azorius.
Kaya, there's simply no room for one of them to be a red herring.
Given that the Ozbedat aren't exactly good guys and there was already a plan in the works to overthrow them, Kaya being a Bolas Agent could be a false assumption, not expecting it but it wouldn't kill WOTC to subvert our expectations once in a blue moon.
4) There is a beautiful parity in Tezzeret and Baan. Tezerret was originally from Ravnica and is an unwilling and selfish servant of Bolas who went to Kaladesh under instruction, and while there was shown to be a devil in Baan's vengeful ear. It's not implausible that Tezzeret has passed instruction, information and cultural tutelage to Baan to help him understand and fit in with his new home, and if Baan has had direct contact with Bolas, it's not implausible to expect that Bolas has outright lied about his intentions in regards to Ravnica and the Gatewatch+. With Baan feeling vengeful and the type of person who gennuinely believes his intellectual superiority grants him a moral authority over others, he may genuinely believe he's doing the right thing and be unaware of Vraska's involvement with Bolas.
Tezzerret was originally from Esper, a shard of Alara, not Ravnica. He has, however, spent some time on Ravnica according to the book, 'Agents of Artifice.'
Ral doesn't help the case. The issue is Dovin getting high enough to be made Grand Arbiter in a short time. Ral Zarek on the other hand has been a prominent Izzet member for years.
To be fair it can be hard to remember where characters come from because WOTC has a problem introducing Walkers starting on their home plane and you tend to remember the first plane a characters shows up on.
Kaya, there's simply no room for one of them to be a red herring.
Given that the Ozbedat aren't exactly good guys and there was already a plan in the works to overthrow them, Kaya being a Bolas Agent could be a false assumption, not expecting it but it wouldn't kill WOTC to subvert our expectations once in a blue moon.
But that would mean only 2 Bolas planeswalkers.
We've specifically been told that there are three Bolas aligned Guilds. That each of those Guilds is lead by a planeswalker that matches the Guild's colors, and that RNA will have three planeswalkers.
The only way that Kaya, Domri, or Dovin could be a red herring is if WotC has been outright lying to us. Not being vague. Not obfuscating. Out and out lying.
walked into New Prahv and showed them with a red marker how flawed their law is and became grand arbiter.
I mean, would any of us really complain too much if he just walked in wearing a leather jacket, walked up to the Grand Arbiter podium..smacked it with a fist, had it start printing laws..and go "EEEYYYHHH"
Ral doesn't help the case. The issue is Dovin getting high enough to be made Grand Arbiter in a short time. Ral Zarek on the other hand has been a prominent Izzet member for years.
That’s right, maybe Emergency Powers shows Dovin becoming Grand Arbiter? The Bolas horns seem to indicate something bigger, but still, we know that Azor put failsafe’s inside the guildpact, with the whole living guildpact thing, so maybe he also put a failsafe on his guild. Dovin could see this and exploit it, using those emergency powers to become guildleader, which would further the mistrust that Sphinx's Insight showed.
Kaya, there's simply no room for one of them to be a red herring.
Given that the Ozbedat aren't exactly good guys and there was already a plan in the works to overthrow them, Kaya being a Bolas Agent could be a false assumption, not expecting it but it wouldn't kill WOTC to subvert our expectations once in a blue moon.
But that would mean only 2 Bolas planeswalkers.
We've specifically been told that there are three Bolas aligned Guilds. That each of those Guilds is lead by a planeswalker that matches the Guild's colors, and that RNA will have three planeswalkers.
The only way that Kaya, Domri, or Dovin could be a red herring is if WotC has been outright lying to us. Not being vague. Not obfuscating. Out and out lying.
*cough cough the Simic have a new leader too cough cough*
Kaya, there's simply no room for one of them to be a red herring.
Given that the Ozbedat aren't exactly good guys and there was already a plan in the works to overthrow them, Kaya being a Bolas Agent could be a false assumption, not expecting it but it wouldn't kill WOTC to subvert our expectations once in a blue moon.
But that would mean only 2 Bolas planeswalkers.
We've specifically been told that there are three Bolas aligned Guilds. That each of those Guilds is lead by a planeswalker that matches the Guild's colors, and that RNA will have three planeswalkers.
The only way that Kaya, Domri, or Dovin could be a red herring is if WotC has been outright lying to us. Not being vague. Not obfuscating. Out and out lying.
*cough cough the Simic have a new leader too cough cough*
Which isn't a planeswalker. Because that would mean RNA had FOUR, not three*. And since she's not a planeswalker, that means that she doesn't fit the requirements for Simic being a Bolas aligned Guild.
*Because we have no reason to believe that one of Dovin, Domri or Kaya doesn't have a card in RNA.
Have we had confirmation that Kaya, as a planeswalker card, is in RNA?
Have we had confirmation that the guilds will be color balanced? There isn't any mechanical reason to need it to be that way, so without confirmation we are just assuming.
Have we had any confirmation that the new Simic leader ISN'T a walker? Again, all I see are assumptions.
Its a strong possibility that the Simic getting a new leader is itself a red herring. It could also be that Kaya is on Ravnica but doesn't get her card until the next set. Unlikely, as I believe she's on pack art, but possible. If we haven't had a Kaya card being in the set explicitly confirmed, nor the color balance explicitly confirmed, nor the new simic leader being a creature explicitly confirmed, then they could have made the simic leader a walker and left Kaya's card for the next set without lying to us.
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I just think Simic got a new leader. Its been brought up but the neo-simic is run by a counsel of speakers and one member is made guild leader last time Zegana and at any time the counsel could change the guild leader. Very well be with the cold war feel of Ravnica the speakers counsel wanted a different leader. Zegana didn't seem the most war minded since under her leadership the simic focused more on trying to balance the city and nature of Ravnica and more natural means of making krasis. Since she is now Utopian Speaker could be she is put on the nature projects as the elf/jellyfish lady take more of an over all command.
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It's also possible that the new Simic leader isn't part of the "Bolas aligned" faction, rather that Zegana is.
There's no reason to assume that the pro-Bolas factions KNOW that they're advancing Bolas' agenda, and it's possible that Zegana's more passive, non-interventionist/confrontational ways suit Bolas just fine. The other Simic faction seems to think that a battle is coming and want to prepare for that, where as Zegana isn't a proponent for the effectual "arms race" meaning that her faction could in fact be the one that benefits Bolas the most, given that Simic isn't a Bolas aligned Guild.
Inaction on the part of the Simic benefits Bolas, in that they're not prepared to oppose him.
From the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica:
The Holdfast encourages the Simic to promote nature; the Upwelling urges them to perfect nature. The end result is the same: a hastened system of evolution that brings out the best in every creature's nature. But different factions within the Simic Combine interpret these
principles in their own ways.
The leadership of the Simic Combine represents the traditional philosophy of the Utopians. Their vision is of an ideal world in which nature and civilization exist in balance, in which natural life adapts to life in the midst of modern civilization and the civilized world adapts
to accommodate these creatures. Utopians generally interpret the Holdfast principle as being about staying rooted in nature, and the Upwelling as concerned with slow, predictable, cyclical improvement. So they remain hidden in their subaquatic laboratories, pursuing their research while isolated from the volatile interrelationships among the other guilds. Prime Speaker Zegana encourages that isolationist attitude.
At the same time, a growing faction within the Simic believes that an a ll-out war among the guilds is inevitable, given the growing unrest in the city. These members, the Adaptationists, believe that the guilds exist in a fragile ecosystem in which the slightest imbalance can have cascading effects. With an absent Living Guildpact failing to maintain the balance, only catastrophe can result. The Simic must change in order to survive, and slow, small steps in pursuit of an ideal vision aren't enough. The future of the guild is in imminent danger,
and the Simic need to focus on survival. Adaptationists tend to interpret the Holdfast as being about defensa and security, and the Upwelling as a call for sudden, disruptive
growth.
As befits members of a guild of scientists, the Adaptationists' preparations for war include the creation of soldiers that are magically and biologically adapted.
The Guardian Project has yielded hybrids that combine human, elf, or vedalken stock with the characteristics of crabs, fish, jellyfish, and a variety of other creatures to give them natural armor and weapons, gills, venomous stings, and other combat-focused adaptations.
To be fair Simic does seem the most democractic and likely to vote in a new leader
Indeed. Also in the Guildmaster's Guide it says that Zegana insists that she serves as Prime Speaker at the will of the council and thus would step down if that's what they want.
From the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica:
[quote At the same time, a growing faction within the Simic believes that an a ll-out war among the guilds is inevitable, given the growing unrest in the city. These members, the Adaptationists, believe that the guilds exist in a fragile ecosystem in which the slightest imbalance can have cascading effects. With an absent Living Guildpact failing to maintain the balance, only catastrophe can result. The Simic must change in order to survive, and slow, small steps in pursuit of an ideal vision aren't enough. The future of the guild is in imminent danger,
and the Simic need to focus on survival. Adaptationists tend to interpret the Holdfast as being about defensa and security, and the Upwelling as a call for sudden, disruptive
growth.
Good God, if Ravnica 3 ends up with Jace still as the Living Guildpact, imma gonna Phage-slap him and/or somebody.
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Yeah but Tezzeret fits better on Kaladesh since at least his powers revolve around Artifice. Whereas the Azorius are not artifice focused which is Baan skill although seeing flaws in systems I guess is useful for Law Mage. Course Dovin here aint changing his appearance to look more like a Ravnican Veldekan and not a Kaladesh Veldekan.
But the how is different then why and I can see plenty of the Human, Vampire, etc High Ranking Families backing a Kaya based coup cause I don't think Teysa is alone in wanting the Ghost Council gone. I don't necessarily see Kaya holding power cause after she has taken out the Ghost in a Noble Based system she is an outsider so either she gets killed in turn or she gets forced into a political marriage. But I can see Kaya having top backing.
Whereas the Azorius would seem closer to the Izzet where killing your way to the top doesn't seem nearly as viable as for Kaya, Vraska and Domri in the Orzhov, Golgari and Gruul. Now Ral Zarek has at least been a high ranking guild member for awhile so its not weird that Niv Mizzet disappears and puts him charge. Dovin Baan though is some nobody who takes over in what under a year? Seems a lot harder in highly rulebound guild then it does where advancement via political backroom assassinations or straight up duels is common. So Baan and his rise requires much more of an explanation on how he did it in my book then any of the other Bolas Agents.
The issue with Ravnica being the final fight unlike Dominaria in the past. Well for Dominaria most of the main characters were Dominarians natively so actually cared about Dominaria. Whereas now the leads are all Walkers and only Jace, Vraska, Domri and Ral Zarek are natives that is what 20% of the Walkers and most. And well we kinda rushed to the final fight with some weak buildup.
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Kaya at least has what 2 or 3 Years as well as the kill your way to the top option and the reasonable assumption that Tesya aint alone in not liking the Ghost Council. So Kaya has some ready made allies and the ability to kill the current leaders. Whereas Isperia inexplicably can tell Dovin works for Bolas by presumably reading his mind but somehow let him climb to Grand Arbiter anyway? Seems like she handle him before he got that high up the guild.
I mean, would any of us really complain too much if he just walked in wearing a leather jacket, walked up to the Grand Arbiter podium..smacked it with a fist, had it start printing laws..and go "EEEYYYHHH"
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I almost don't want to post this, but does anyone else look at her collar and notice that it looks like its giving her horns? That, combined with the fact that she's supplanted Zegana as Parun, is making me wonder if the Simic might actually be one of the Bolas'd guilds, with either the Gruul or Orzhov being a fake out (like, either Domri or Kaya don't succeed). We know that three guilds will be Bolas'd and two won't be, and Azorius is confirmed with Dovin taking over, so if the Simic got taken over then either the Gruul or Orzhov would have to remain free from Bolas. The two signs that a guild has been taken over is that the guild master has been replaced, and the new guildmaster is a planes walker. The Boros, Selesnya, and Dimir, who remained free from Bolas, all kept their guild masters, but we don't know if the guilds that remain free from Bolas in Ravnica Allegiance will, so its possible that Zegana getting replaced by this elf is itself a red herring. Even so, its still half of the equation, a new guildmaster, and we won't know what that means until we know if she's a planeswalker or not (or if we get confirmation on the other two Bolas'd guilds besides Azorius). I had thought that the Simic wouldn't be ripe for corruption by Bolas as they seemed more aloof to Ravnican politics, but new information about their inner workings (specifically their Parun serving at the whim of a council) reveals that they were especially vulnerable to it (all Bolas would need to do is corrupt a faction and use that as his vehicle, as he did with the Golgari).
I have to say that I'm not confident anymore about which guilds will fall to Bolas. I was in the camp that it would be Azorius/Gruul/Orzhov, but now I just don't know.
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MaRo has already confirmed that there's 3 planeswalker in RNA, so since we already know we're getting Dovin, Domri and Kaya, there's simply no room for one of them to be a red herring.
Kaya and Domri both show up on RNA Booster art, so I don't think there's any reason to believe they WON'T have an actual card in RNA(not the PW deck), and Dovin's already confirmed as a Bolas Agent for Azorius.
Given that the Ozbedat aren't exactly good guys and there was already a plan in the works to overthrow them, Kaya being a Bolas Agent could be a false assumption, not expecting it but it wouldn't kill WOTC to subvert our expectations once in a blue moon.
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Tezzerret was originally from Esper, a shard of Alara, not Ravnica. He has, however, spent some time on Ravnica according to the book, 'Agents of Artifice.'
We've specifically been told that there are three Bolas aligned Guilds. That each of those Guilds is lead by a planeswalker that matches the Guild's colors, and that RNA will have three planeswalkers.
The only way that Kaya, Domri, or Dovin could be a red herring is if WotC has been outright lying to us. Not being vague. Not obfuscating. Out and out lying.
Nope, bad boy Dovin would be interesting
That’s right, maybe Emergency Powers shows Dovin becoming Grand Arbiter? The Bolas horns seem to indicate something bigger, but still, we know that Azor put failsafe’s inside the guildpact, with the whole living guildpact thing, so maybe he also put a failsafe on his guild. Dovin could see this and exploit it, using those emergency powers to become guildleader, which would further the mistrust that Sphinx's Insight showed.
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*cough cough the Simic have a new leader too cough cough*
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Which isn't a planeswalker. Because that would mean RNA had FOUR, not three*. And since she's not a planeswalker, that means that she doesn't fit the requirements for Simic being a Bolas aligned Guild.
*Because we have no reason to believe that one of Dovin, Domri or Kaya doesn't have a card in RNA.
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Have we had confirmation that the guilds will be color balanced? There isn't any mechanical reason to need it to be that way, so without confirmation we are just assuming.
Have we had any confirmation that the new Simic leader ISN'T a walker? Again, all I see are assumptions.
Its a strong possibility that the Simic getting a new leader is itself a red herring. It could also be that Kaya is on Ravnica but doesn't get her card until the next set. Unlikely, as I believe she's on pack art, but possible. If we haven't had a Kaya card being in the set explicitly confirmed, nor the color balance explicitly confirmed, nor the new simic leader being a creature explicitly confirmed, then they could have made the simic leader a walker and left Kaya's card for the next set without lying to us.
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EDIT: Should we start a new thread for RNA?
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There's no reason to assume that the pro-Bolas factions KNOW that they're advancing Bolas' agenda, and it's possible that Zegana's more passive, non-interventionist/confrontational ways suit Bolas just fine. The other Simic faction seems to think that a battle is coming and want to prepare for that, where as Zegana isn't a proponent for the effectual "arms race" meaning that her faction could in fact be the one that benefits Bolas the most, given that Simic isn't a Bolas aligned Guild.
Inaction on the part of the Simic benefits Bolas, in that they're not prepared to oppose him.
From the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica:
Indeed. Also in the Guildmaster's Guide it says that Zegana insists that she serves as Prime Speaker at the will of the council and thus would step down if that's what they want.
Good God, if Ravnica 3 ends up with Jace still as the Living Guildpact, imma gonna Phage-slap him and/or somebody.
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