I think post-mending Bolas would have issues with the raw power of the guilds and post-mending his plans are always him setting everything up just right so when he shows up he win. Why even risk taking on the guilds when Bolas can send in agents to either take over and/or weaken the guilds so once he shows up he can just breeze through it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think more of what makes it weird is Bolas is doing this all subtle. It be one thing for Bolas to obviously show up takeover and put his own people in charge with him simply appointing Kaya and Dovin outright. But since he is suppose to be subtle it seems weird he is bringing in ringers from off Plane and just putting them in charge. No one is asking questions about where these ringers came from?
This is certainly an interesting point and I hope the story adresses this problem. It seems big enough that the story people actually had to think about it and work out a believable explanation.
I think with both Azorius and Orzhov, there has to be some support from within the guilds themselves. Something similary has already happened in Guilds of Ravnica: Vraska didn't just take over the Golgari with the Erstwhile alone, but was also backed by the Kraul.
The Obzedat has held power for so long that it's not hard to imagine there being some factions inside the Orzhov that'd really like them to be gone (Teysa and the people around her being one of them). This could provide an avenue for Kaya with her very specific ghost-killing abilities to do her thing while having her back protected by those groups. Being backed from influential people inside the guild would also explain why she wouldn't immediately be killed and replaced by another (non-ghost) guild leader candidate with a more solid right to "succession" that a complete outsider.
As to why other Orzhov people would back her, either before or after the assassinations (or both) - maybe they actively want a power vacuum, but don't want to rise to power themselves immediately and want to set up some kind of proxy first. The Obzedat's reign has been insanely long, so the people wanting to ursurp power are probably dying to secure their place at the top and will be extremely cautious to not **** things up (since this may be their one and only chance). From that perspective, a more or less harmless outsider suddenly climbing all the way to the top could be a convenient smoke screen to make further orchestrations in the background. Essentially Kaya would be the nominal leader without having access to all the power immediately, because some of it is bound to simply move down to the lower organizational levels. She could still have enough power to steer the guild into the general direction Bolas is aiming for, but since Bolas's goals for this story are (I assume) rather short-term in nature, they may actually end up aligning with the goals of the long-term planners.
I see your point on the orzhov they want the Obzedat gone but cannot do it themselves so they let Kaya take them out then make their move. I just want to see some of the internal guild mechanics for these takeovers.
I think post-mending Bolas would have issues with the raw power of the guilds and post-mending his plans are always him setting everything up just right so when he shows up he win. Why even risk taking on the guilds when Bolas can send in agents to either take over and/or weaken the guilds so once he shows up he can just breeze through it.
Yeah post mending Bolas cannot go in and slap them all around and takeover. Pre Mending though yes I think Bolas could waltz in and bring everyone in line.
So Domri Rade for Gruul, it seems, making them the last guild to fall. I guess Rakdos are the "Good Guys" this time? And here I thought Bolas was going to have Liliana take out another demon.
So Domri Rade for Gruul, it seems, making them the last guild to fall. I guess Rakdos are the "Good Guys" this time? And here I thought Bolas was going to have Liliana take out another demon.
I mean, he still might.
Bolas didn't get direct control of Liliana till the end of Dominaria, which was much too late to use her to secure control of the Rakdos (keep in mind that RtRtR's story overlaps/runs concurrently with portions of Ixalan/Dominaria, and Bolas has apparently had his sights on Ravnica for much longer than that).
Now instead of having her kill Rakdos and usurp control, he can have her kill Rakdos and deprive the opposing faction of probably the one being than could keep the rest of the Rakdos guild in line/organized/doing anything generally of benefit to the anti-Bolas side.
The big problem with all of this is we wont get any information on it until the books come out. Just side story fillers. By then I might not even be interested in what HAPPENED since what Im interested in i what is HAPPENING
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
I agree. I believe wotc did things in reverse. They should have released the novels along with the first set, not the third. They still could have done these guild related shorts.
I'm interested in how the general populace is going to survive the eternals tbh. Aside from a few large creatures with the selesnya and maybe some big bugs with golgari - the rest of the plane is full of common folk essentially. I don't see how they fight the most highly trained and undead army in the multiverse.
Furthermore it should be noted that Amonkhet was a plane full of people specifically trained in the martial arts, specifically the ones the eternals employ. And Amonkhet kinda folded like a house of cards. Ravnica will be a slaughter that will make Battle for Zendikar look like a balanced fight, which could make the Boros' role that much more important. Maybe we'll see some true shift in values in some guilds in the aftermath.
Amonkhet had a pretty small population, and while they were highly trained fighters, they weren't highly trained soldiers, and there's an enormous difference between the two. The Boros are highly trained soldiers, masterful tacticians, and they field a massive army. That's exactly the sort of thing that's needed to take on the Eternals. The Selesnya also represent a large, unified military force, and can deploy some of the largest creatures in the multiverse in their service. Of course, the Bolas guilds will be fielding its own armies, but its not going to be a one sided slaughter. I mean, even with the civillians, the capital has went through worse than the eternals already (Kraj, Rakdos, and 3 Nephilim Kaiju melee). This is a plane used to dealing with cataclysms (they put up with the Izzet after all) and minimizing the damage. And unlike on Amonkhet, the civillians actually have somewhere to run away to.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
The big problem with all of this is we wont get any information on it until the books come out. Just side story fillers. By then I might not even be interested in what HAPPENED since what Im interested in i what is HAPPENING
Agreed.
We're basically left in the position of trying to piece together a story out of whatever random tidbits actually make it onto the cards. We'll likely have a basic plotline where we know WHAT happened, but not HOW or even necessarily WHY, and by time we get the actual story, few people will even care any longer, cause they largely already "know" about it.
The big problem with all of this is we wont get any information on it until the books come out. Just side story fillers. By then I might not even be interested in what HAPPENED since what Im interested in i what is HAPPENING
Agreed.
We're basically left in the position of trying to piece together a story out of whatever random tidbits actually make it onto the cards. We'll likely have a basic plotline where we know WHAT happened, but not HOW or even necessarily WHY, and by time we get the actual story, few people will even care any longer, cause they largely already "know" about it.
This is basically the largest problem in the lore right now, and has been since they got rid of the Proper books with each set. The spoiled cards gave a general idea of what was going to happen and spoiled little bits, such as Rhys being "redeemed" but with Story Spotlight cards directly giving the major Giving away the twists and us now not even getting the plot until nearly a year after it happens we are just sitting and..doing nothing at all.
Like I haven't even read the last story to come out because, it just doesn't matter.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Am I just imagining things, or is the elf on the package holding Zeganas trident?
Even her collar looks the same. I suppose we get a new Simic guildleader.
Could be, taking into account her blurb from the guildmasters guide, it does not seem to be to complicated becoming prime speaker and replacing someone "peaceful" in a time of a coming conflict.
Taken from the guide
She upholds the traditional ways of the guild and its utopian philosophy, which espouses a vision of an ideal world in which nature and civilization coexist in perfect balance. Some people in the guild — members of the Adaptationist faction in particular — argue that her ways are outdated and the guild requires more practical leadership.In response, Zegana maintains that she serves as prime speaker only at the sufferance of the Speakers’ Chamber, and if the other speakers wish to replace her, they are certainly within their rights to do so. - Guildmasters Guide
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
From the Simic mechanic spotlight it shows Zegana as the guild champion and says she is no longer the Prime Speaker. Seems like the elf is the new guild master.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
yawn. The elf looks so boring. Was expecting some kind of a crazy looking mutant, like the elf in the traielr with crab arms. Instead we got a boring humanoid looking character like the all so memorable new characters like Izoni and Etrata.
Will The Scarab god and The Locust God join the Eternals army in the invasion? Jsut wondering, because having The Scarab God would be incredibly scary to deal with and would love to see It fighting a heavy hitter like rakdos.
Can the gods come through the planar bridge? They have bodies and flesh and blood, but surely they aren't normal organic matter; Karona was able to survive in the Blind eternities as well.
I would love to see the Scarab and Locust gods in Ravnica.
From the Simic mechanic spotlight it shows Zegana as the guild champion and says she is no longer the Prime Speaker. Seems like the elf is the new guild master.
I mean the Simic do seem like the guild most likely to actually vote for leaders and peacefully transfer power.
Can the gods come through the planar bridge? They have bodies and flesh and blood, but surely they aren't normal organic matter; Karona was able to survive in the Blind eternities as well.
I would love to see the Scarab and Locust gods in Ravnica.
Actual gods in mtg seem to be beings composed of a weave of a plane's leylines. As such, I'd suspect that a god likely cannot leave the plane they are a god on. This would explain why a planeswalker that becomes a god loses the ability to planeswalk (Xenagos) and leaves room for beings that aren't actually gods but are god-like (Karona) to travel between planes.
Can the gods come through the planar bridge? They have bodies and flesh and blood, but surely they aren't normal organic matter; Karona was able to survive in the Blind eternities as well.
I would love to see the Scarab and Locust gods in Ravnica.
Actual gods in mtg seem to be beings composed of a weave of a plane's leylines. As such, I'd suspect that a god likely cannot leave the plane they are a god on. This would explain why a planeswalker that becomes a god loses the ability to planeswalk (Xenagos) and leaves room for beings that aren't actually gods but are god-like (Karona) to travel between planes.
Xenagos never lost the ability to 'walk. His card was a creature simply to fit with the rest of the cycle. Also Wizards deliberately avoided the question as to what would happen to his godhood if he had planeswalked, so we don't know how that works. It should be noted that Thassa's bident still worked when Kiora brought it to Zendikar. The only change was that it lost its Nyx VFX if I recall correctly.
Can the gods come through the planar bridge? They have bodies and flesh and blood, but surely they aren't normal organic matter; Karona was able to survive in the Blind eternities as well.
I would love to see the Scarab and Locust gods in Ravnica.
Karona also had Dormant Planeswalker Spark (1/3 of her was Jeska)
From Sphinx's Insight it seems Isperia realized Bolas's plot through Dovin which might have lead to her death. Seems like Dovin was able to become Grand Arbiter and might be how is able to become guild master after Isperia gets stoned.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think with both Azorius and Orzhov, there has to be some support from within the guilds themselves. Something similary has already happened in Guilds of Ravnica: Vraska didn't just take over the Golgari with the Erstwhile alone, but was also backed by the Kraul.
The Obzedat has held power for so long that it's not hard to imagine there being some factions inside the Orzhov that'd really like them to be gone (Teysa and the people around her being one of them). This could provide an avenue for Kaya with her very specific ghost-killing abilities to do her thing while having her back protected by those groups. Being backed from influential people inside the guild would also explain why she wouldn't immediately be killed and replaced by another (non-ghost) guild leader candidate with a more solid right to "succession" that a complete outsider.
As to why other Orzhov people would back her, either before or after the assassinations (or both) - maybe they actively want a power vacuum, but don't want to rise to power themselves immediately and want to set up some kind of proxy first. The Obzedat's reign has been insanely long, so the people wanting to ursurp power are probably dying to secure their place at the top and will be extremely cautious to not **** things up (since this may be their one and only chance). From that perspective, a more or less harmless outsider suddenly climbing all the way to the top could be a convenient smoke screen to make further orchestrations in the background. Essentially Kaya would be the nominal leader without having access to all the power immediately, because some of it is bound to simply move down to the lower organizational levels. She could still have enough power to steer the guild into the general direction Bolas is aiming for, but since Bolas's goals for this story are (I assume) rather short-term in nature, they may actually end up aligning with the goals of the long-term planners.
Yeah post mending Bolas cannot go in and slap them all around and takeover. Pre Mending though yes I think Bolas could waltz in and bring everyone in line.
Bolas didn't get direct control of Liliana till the end of Dominaria, which was much too late to use her to secure control of the Rakdos (keep in mind that RtRtR's story overlaps/runs concurrently with portions of Ixalan/Dominaria, and Bolas has apparently had his sights on Ravnica for much longer than that).
Now instead of having her kill Rakdos and usurp control, he can have her kill Rakdos and deprive the opposing faction of probably the one being than could keep the rest of the Rakdos guild in line/organized/doing anything generally of benefit to the anti-Bolas side.
Amonkhet had a pretty small population, and while they were highly trained fighters, they weren't highly trained soldiers, and there's an enormous difference between the two. The Boros are highly trained soldiers, masterful tacticians, and they field a massive army. That's exactly the sort of thing that's needed to take on the Eternals. The Selesnya also represent a large, unified military force, and can deploy some of the largest creatures in the multiverse in their service. Of course, the Bolas guilds will be fielding its own armies, but its not going to be a one sided slaughter. I mean, even with the civillians, the capital has went through worse than the eternals already (Kraj, Rakdos, and 3 Nephilim Kaiju melee). This is a plane used to dealing with cataclysms (they put up with the Izzet after all) and minimizing the damage. And unlike on Amonkhet, the civillians actually have somewhere to run away to.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Agreed.
We're basically left in the position of trying to piece together a story out of whatever random tidbits actually make it onto the cards. We'll likely have a basic plotline where we know WHAT happened, but not HOW or even necessarily WHY, and by time we get the actual story, few people will even care any longer, cause they largely already "know" about it.
This is basically the largest problem in the lore right now, and has been since they got rid of the Proper books with each set. The spoiled cards gave a general idea of what was going to happen and spoiled little bits, such as Rhys being "redeemed" but with Story Spotlight cards directly giving the major Giving away the twists and us now not even getting the plot until nearly a year after it happens we are just sitting and..doing nothing at all.
Like I haven't even read the last story to come out because, it just doesn't matter.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-preview/ravnica-allegiance-promos-and-packaging-2018-12-17
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Even her collar looks the same. I suppose we get a new Simic guildleader.
Could be, taking into account her blurb from the guildmasters guide, it does not seem to be to complicated becoming prime speaker and replacing someone "peaceful" in a time of a coming conflict.
Taken from the guide
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Will The Scarab god and The Locust God join the Eternals army in the invasion? Jsut wondering, because having The Scarab God would be incredibly scary to deal with and would love to see It fighting a heavy hitter like rakdos.
I would love to see the Scarab and Locust gods in Ravnica.
I mean the Simic do seem like the guild most likely to actually vote for leaders and peacefully transfer power.
Actual gods in mtg seem to be beings composed of a weave of a plane's leylines. As such, I'd suspect that a god likely cannot leave the plane they are a god on. This would explain why a planeswalker that becomes a god loses the ability to planeswalk (Xenagos) and leaves room for beings that aren't actually gods but are god-like (Karona) to travel between planes.
Xenagos never lost the ability to 'walk. His card was a creature simply to fit with the rest of the cycle. Also Wizards deliberately avoided the question as to what would happen to his godhood if he had planeswalked, so we don't know how that works. It should be noted that Thassa's bident still worked when Kiora brought it to Zendikar. The only change was that it lost its Nyx VFX if I recall correctly.
Karona also had Dormant Planeswalker Spark (1/3 of her was Jeska)
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Hazoret The Fervent killed The Scarab God with Hazoret's undying fury.
oops nevermind, i was thinking of the scorpion god
Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"