Weren't the Rakdos included in the guildpact to placate Rakdos (the demon), which would tie into the entertainment aspect?
It's true though that some of the guilds have been flanderized. Maybe that's what's missing with each Ravnica return. The world feels smaller and flatter.
Agreed on the Flanderization. The reason they are allowed to exist is because Rakdos was needed for the guildpact. Keeping him entertained didn't originally mean just black comic goofy murder circus though. He was also entertained by the court politics and the run of the mill murder and mayhem. Rakdos was a darker guild the first time around, and in RTR in veered into gore based slapstick.
Ehh, all of the Guilds are portrayed as generally bad going back to the first Ravnica.
Azorious were Lawful Evil as well, they were the ones behind the plot to set fire to the Guildpact so they could replace it.
The Boros had a history of police brutality
The Selesenya were insular and ignored problems if it didn't affect them
Simic used their BioGrafts to make a gigantic slime monster.
I think people too often conflate the evil alignment with "bad outcomes" and "bad actions." That's simply not the case. A good character can do bad things and create bad outcomes because they believe they are doing the right thing, or they believe that doing the wrong thing is necessary to do the right thing long term, or because they just don't have enough information to make the correct choice. The path to hell is paved with good intentions, after all, and intentions are what matters in alignment. An evil character can actually do a lot of good things and create good outcomes while still being perfectly evil, simply because they only did those things for their own benefit and it just so happened that their own benefit aligned with that of the greater good. See Dissenion, when Rakdos helps save the day by fighting Kraj and the Nephilim. When it comes to neutral characters, shades of grey is exactly where its at, and they do both good and evil.
The Azorious were Lawful Good. Augustin didn't orchestrate the downfall of the guildpact, that was all Szadek. He merely tried to take advantage of the fact that he recognized that the guildpact before anyone else (so he thought) to try to make the Azorious come out on top in the inevitable (in his mind) war that would result from the guildpact no longer keeping the balance. His motivations were an example of how even Lawful Good reasoning can lead down a dark path; he wanted to restore order on Ravnica because he thought it was what was best for the plane, and was biased towards his own guild's way of doing things. You could argue that he himself was more lawful neutral, but evil? Hardly. An evil character isn't primarily motivated by what they think is right, but for what they think is right for them. Keep in mind, this was almost entirely Augustin's doing without the knowledge of the rest of the guild. He manipulated the Senate into giving him dictatorial powers the same way Palpatine did in Star Wars: he took advantage of a crisis partly of his own creation (here he's not at Palpatine's level, because a lot of what happened in Dissension would have happened without Augustin, he just made no effort to stop it, while the Clone Wars were entirely Palpatine's baby). The Senate saw the chaos, death, destruction, and suffering caused by the Simic, Rakdos, and Nephilim, realized the guild pact was broken, and saw only one way to restore order for the good of Ravnica. Then, when they learned the truth, they reversed course and helped write a new guild pact.
The Boros are another example of how Lawful Good can go too far. That's sort of their whole angle, that they are so zealous in their pursuit of justice that they cause unnecessary harm. They are so convinced that what they are doing is right, they don't always slow down to make sure. Lawful Good is the alignment of zealous crusaders in D&D, and let me tell you, zealous crusaders can cause a lot of problems.
Simic is neutral. They are supposed to be shades of grey. Momir Vig is a great example of a neutral villain. He wants to remake the world, damn what anyone else wants. He wants to ensure the health of all of Ravnica, which seems like it could be a good aligned goal taken to an extreme, but he's unconcerned with suffering, or consent, and it becomes a neutral goal, dispassionate and amoral.
The Selesnya are Lawful Good. They are about order, harmony, peace and love, all that jazz. The Quietmen were doing evil stuff because they were taken over by the Dimir/Golgari conspiracy and acting without the Selesnya's knowledge. The Selesnya's main failing was their insular nature and hands off approach to the outside world, but that's not evil, and was as informed by a desire to live in harmony with the rest of the plane as it was from self preservation.
None of the guilds were ever perfect, but there's a big difference between a guild that strives to do good and falls short, or even screws up royally, with a guild that is affirmatively evil.
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It's true though that some of the guilds have been flanderized. Maybe that's what's missing with each Ravnica return. The world feels smaller and flatter.
Idk it took us until now to get two not "evil" Dimir characters and the Rakdos RtR story we didn't see a more noble side of the guild. Maybe on the card sure, but the cards most often show the stereotypes of factions anyways.
I think the Rakdos circus angle is a lot more...sellable...then just straight up demon blood murder cult. It gives them more of identity, we have already seen at least 2 other demonc cults (that come to my mind) with Innistrads demons and the cabal and the circus aspect self the Radios stand out. The Circus and entertain aspects also give reasons to why less pain wanting/giving people would join.
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It's true though that some of the guilds have been flanderized. Maybe that's what's missing with each Ravnica return. The world feels smaller and flatter.
Idk it took us until now to get two not "evil" Dimir characters and the Rakdos RtR story we didn't see a more noble side of the guild. Maybe on the card sure, but the cards most often show the stereotypes of factions anyways.
I think the Rakdos circus angle is a lot more...sellable...then just straight up demon blood murder cult. It gives them more of identity, we have already seen at least 2 other demonc cults (that come to my mind) with Innistrads demons and the cabal and the circus aspect self the Radios stand out. The Circus and entertain aspects also give reasons to why less pain wanting/giving people would join.
Just my opinion, but there's no reason that the Rakdos, which predate the Innistrad cults and the Cabal as a demon cult, should have had to change to stand out. It already stood out from the Innistrad cults, which were more hidden "creepy cult" than the hellish murder and mayhem operating openly that was the Rakdos. The circus was still there, it just wasn't their entire schtick, so yes, making that their whole thing is a flanderization. And the circus doesn't give anyone who isn't all about murder and pain a reason to join, because that's what the circus is all about. It's just weirdly presented as socially acceptable now, a good place to take in a show for the average Ravnican, which just doesn't fit well with the rest of the plane. The neo Cabal was a bit closer, but they still had a gladiator theme that should have been played up more, as should the super rich aspect. The neo Cabal being so generic was lazy world building, they should have been buying off important figures across Dominaria to look the other way or let them operate in their territory, which would have made them more interesting and made there be a real reason that the Weatherlight crew infiltrating the Cabal was needed.
For the Dimir, we had a non evil character in RTR. The Dimir, Golgari, and Simic didn't get flanderized.
The Dimir and Simic are basically new guilds: the old, Szadek run burn the guild pact Dimir lost their reason for existing and the one person who really was the guild, so the neo Dimir rose up with a broader set of goals and a structure that lets them operate as a guild on par with the others instead of as a secret self destruct button. They escaped flanderization because they basically started from scratch with them in RTR. They are still in an awkward position in the new set, since as I said before they are trying to push the idea that many Ravnicans consider them a myth again, or at best that they are an open secret, which is dumb when everyone should remember their role in the first block and their sigil is on all the official guild pact statuary and art (like, in the first block, you'd see the 9 guilds sigils all together, and in RTR and this you see the Dimir sigil in there). I could see people being unsure about what exactly the Dimir do, and in RTR they played up the idea that the Dimir have fronts and covers like the Orzhov in the first block, legitimate services that people know they are involved in. In RTR, the Dimir had a famous library and provided schools and tutors. It would have been interesting if this was expanded on, and then you could have a reason why many Ravnicans don't know what the Dimir are really up to. Right now, it should be pretty clear that the Dimir are a guild, and that they famously used spies, terrorism, and assassination less than 100 years ago to destroy the guild pact, so it should be pretty clear that they are the spy guild, especially since now that's all they are really doing. Creative missed the opportunity to flesh them out better. Why aren't they also the press? That would make a ton of sense for a city themed plane, and fit well with blue black (both from an investigative journalism standpoint, which would also provide cover for spying, and from the fact that they could use their role as the press to spread propaganda and influence public opinion). It would also give the average Ravnican more of a reason to tolerate their existence, as they'd be serving a real need. I mean, I'd imagine Ravnicans would be more OK with the Dimir being around of they exposed Azorious red tape problems, Orzhov corruption, and Boros screw ups.
The neo Simic, meanwhile, haven't really gotten much in the way of characterization. They are still pretty much a blank slate. They lost the "corporate brand" flavor of the original and it was replaced with an ocean flavor. There just isn't really enough there yet though, we'll see what happens next set.
The Golgari actually came out of this looking the same as they did in the first block. Fittingly for the color pair associated with stagnation, they really haven't changed, and that's good because they are interesting, hypocrisy and all.
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It should be noted that in the first Ravnica block, the Rakdos were about entertainment in general, not just suicide circuses. They covered restaurants and such.
Maybe them being all over the place was originally a point about how they literally just served the purpose to entertain Rakdos by their pure existence. As long as they were there they fulfilled their purpose and it didn't matter what they really did, mining ore, serving food or blowing themselves (and others) up. It also fits their hedonism aspect, that was always talked about conceptually when the guilds were introduced but never directly interwoven with the lore. They're basically a guild that, while having a purpose (unlike the Gruul), struggles to find a "hobby" to pass the time, so to speak.
It's true though that some of the guilds have been flanderized. Maybe that's what's missing with each Ravnica return. The world feels smaller and flatter.
Idk it took us until now to get two not "evil" Dimir characters and the Rakdos RtR story we didn't see a more noble side of the guild. Maybe on the card sure, but the cards most often show the stereotypes of factions anyways.
I think the Rakdos circus angle is a lot more...sellable...then just straight up demon blood murder cult. It gives them more of identity, we have already seen at least 2 other demonc cults (that come to my mind) with Innistrads demons and the cabal and the circus aspect self the Radios stand out. The Circus and entertain aspects also give reasons to why less pain wanting/giving people would join.
Just my opinion, but there's no reason that the Rakdos, which predate the Innistrad cults and the Cabal as a demon cult, should have had to change to stand out. It already stood out from the Innistrad cults, which were more hidden "creepy cult" than the hellish murder and mayhem operating openly that was the Rakdos. The circus was still there, it just wasn't their entire schtick, so yes, making that their whole thing is a flanderization.
At the same time the Ravnica guilds, being the first, are very broad and stereotypical of their colors and many of the cards and themes from the first Ravnica set are kinda bland. The Rakdos otherwise are just a blood hungry demon cult, which the Innistrad, Cabal and even the Kolaghan (replace demons with dragons) are at thier basic levels. As Flisch pointed out they where originally all over the place.
To further another point I think the circus theme is more sellable. The whole Ravnica idea is you playing your guild. A blood circus is more sellable theme than murder cult to people. And as this is a kids game, circus is a good substitute for clubs and other places of entertainment.
And the circus doesn't give anyone who isn't all about murder and pain a reason to join, because that's what the circus is all about. It's just weirdly presented as socially acceptable now, a good place to take in a show for the average Ravnican, which just doesn't fit well with the rest of the plane.
Pretty sure in the first Ravnica books they said there are Rakdos owned clubs and such that aren't as wild or bloody, so I'd guess the circus are the same.
For the Dimir, we had a non evil character in RTR.
Please remind me of this.
The Dimir and Simic are basically new guilds: the old, Szadek run burn the guild pact Dimir lost their reason for existing and the one person who really was the guild, so the neo Dimir rose up with a broader set of goals and a structure that lets them operate as a guild on par with the others instead of as a secret self destruct button. They escaped flanderization because they basically started from scratch with them in RTR. They are still in an awkward position in the new set, since as I said before they are trying to push the idea that many Ravnicans consider them a myth again, or at best that they are an open secret, which is dumb when everyone should remember their role in the first block and their sigil is on all the official guild pact statuary and art (like, in the first block, you'd see the 9 guilds sigils all together, and in RTR and this you see the Dimir sigil in there). I could see people being unsure about what exactly the Dimir do, and in RTR they played up the idea that the Dimir have fronts and covers like the Orzhov in the first block, legitimate services that people know they are involved in. In RTR, the Dimir had a famous library and provided schools and tutors. It would have been interesting if this was expanded on, and then you could have a reason why many Ravnicans don't know what the Dimir are really up to. Right now, it should be pretty clear that the Dimir are a guild, and that they famously used spies, terrorism, and assassination less than 100 years ago to destroy the guild pact, so it should be pretty clear that they are the spy guild, especially since now that's all they are really doing.
I mean thats kinda the idea, they have a face, are an office guild and they say the dark shadowy stuff was all in the past. Most of the guilds "reformed" themselves to the public when they returned liked this, with Simic being the biggest example.
Creative missed the opportunity to flesh them out better. Why aren't they also the press? That would make a ton of sense for a city themed plane, and fit well with blue black (both from an investigative journalism standpoint, which would also provide cover for spying, and from the fact that they could use their role as the press to spread propaganda and influence public opinion). It would also give the average Ravnican more of a reason to tolerate their existence, as they'd be serving a real need. I mean, I'd imagine Ravnicans would be more OK with the Dimir being around of they exposed Azorious red tape problems, Orzhov corruption, and Boros screw ups.
Thats a fairly good idea, the Dimir running the media would make a lot of sense, thought interesting media doesn't seem to be an aspect explored in Ravnica.
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I feel like, just like minting coins, multiple guilds would be in charge of the media. But the Dimir would be the "determined investigative" reporter kinda archetype.
It's true though that some of the guilds have been flanderized. Maybe that's what's missing with each Ravnica return. The world feels smaller and flatter.
Idk it took us until now to get two not "evil" Dimir characters and the Rakdos RtR story we didn't see a more noble side of the guild. Maybe on the card sure, but the cards most often show the stereotypes of factions anyways.
I think the Rakdos circus angle is a lot more...sellable...then just straight up demon blood murder cult. It gives them more of identity, we have already seen at least 2 other demonc cults (that come to my mind) with Innistrads demons and the cabal and the circus aspect self the Radios stand out. The Circus and entertain aspects also give reasons to why less pain wanting/giving people would join.
Just my opinion, but there's no reason that the Rakdos, which predate the Innistrad cults and the Cabal as a demon cult, should have had to change to stand out. It already stood out from the Innistrad cults, which were more hidden "creepy cult" than the hellish murder and mayhem operating openly that was the Rakdos. The circus was still there, it just wasn't their entire schtick, so yes, making that their whole thing is a flanderization.
At the same time the Ravnica guilds, being the first, are very broad and stereotypical of their colors and many of the cards and themes from the first Ravnica set are kinda bland. The Rakdos otherwise are just a blood hungry demon cult, which the Innistrad, Cabal and even the Kolaghan (replace demons with dragons) are at thier basic levels. As Flisch pointed out they where originally all over the place.
To further another point I think the circus theme is more sellable. The whole Ravnica idea is you playing your guild. A blood circus is more sellable theme than murder cult to people. And as this is a kids game, circus is a good substitute for clubs and other places of entertainment.
And the circus doesn't give anyone who isn't all about murder and pain a reason to join, because that's what the circus is all about. It's just weirdly presented as socially acceptable now, a good place to take in a show for the average Ravnican, which just doesn't fit well with the rest of the plane.
Pretty sure in the first Ravnica books they said there are Rakdos owned clubs and such that aren't as wild or bloody, so I'd guess the circus are the same.
For the Dimir, we had a non evil character in RTR.
Please remind me of this.
The Dimir and Simic are basically new guilds: the old, Szadek run burn the guild pact Dimir lost their reason for existing and the one person who really was the guild, so the neo Dimir rose up with a broader set of goals and a structure that lets them operate as a guild on par with the others instead of as a secret self destruct button. They escaped flanderization because they basically started from scratch with them in RTR. They are still in an awkward position in the new set, since as I said before they are trying to push the idea that many Ravnicans consider them a myth again, or at best that they are an open secret, which is dumb when everyone should remember their role in the first block and their sigil is on all the official guild pact statuary and art (like, in the first block, you'd see the 9 guilds sigils all together, and in RTR and this you see the Dimir sigil in there). I could see people being unsure about what exactly the Dimir do, and in RTR they played up the idea that the Dimir have fronts and covers like the Orzhov in the first block, legitimate services that people know they are involved in. In RTR, the Dimir had a famous library and provided schools and tutors. It would have been interesting if this was expanded on, and then you could have a reason why many Ravnicans don't know what the Dimir are really up to. Right now, it should be pretty clear that the Dimir are a guild, and that they famously used spies, terrorism, and assassination less than 100 years ago to destroy the guild pact, so it should be pretty clear that they are the spy guild, especially since now that's all they are really doing.
I mean thats kinda the idea, they have a face, are an office guild and they say the dark shadowy stuff was all in the past. Most of the guilds "reformed" themselves to the public when they returned liked this, with Simic being the biggest example.
Creative missed the opportunity to flesh them out better. Why aren't they also the press? That would make a ton of sense for a city themed plane, and fit well with blue black (both from an investigative journalism standpoint, which would also provide cover for spying, and from the fact that they could use their role as the press to spread propaganda and influence public opinion). It would also give the average Ravnican more of a reason to tolerate their existence, as they'd be serving a real need. I mean, I'd imagine Ravnicans would be more OK with the Dimir being around of they exposed Azorious red tape problems, Orzhov corruption, and Boros screw ups.
Thats a fairly good idea, the Dimir running the media would make a lot of sense, thought interesting media doesn't seem to be an aspect explored in Ravnica.
There was a story about a Dimir agent that taught at a school and was a sort of memory mage. He was a regular guy that happened to be Dimir, and I think it ended with him getting out of the guild because he liked teaching more, and got another agent (I think it was his dad?) to wipe his memories of the guild, which is how they let you get out.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Creative missed the opportunity to flesh them out better. Why aren't they also the press? That would make a ton of sense for a city themed plane, and fit well with blue black (both from an investigative journalism standpoint, which would also provide cover for spying, and from the fact that they could use their role as the press to spread propaganda and influence public opinion). It would also give the average Ravnican more of a reason to tolerate their existence, as they'd be serving a real need. I mean, I'd imagine Ravnicans would be more OK with the Dimir being around of they exposed Azorious red tape problems, Orzhov corruption, and Boros screw ups.
According to the Planeswalker's Guide to Ravnica, that's exactly what they do: "The Dimir are just like any Ravnican guild, serving a public purpose for the good of the city. They often serve as couriers, investigators, reporters, and archivists. They serve twin purposes: to give the rest of Ravnica a "friendly" face of the guild and to be the street-level eyes and ears of the Dimir. Many entry-level candidates to the Dimir guild begin as overt agents until they can prove their trustworthiness."
Creative missed the opportunity to flesh them out better. Why aren't they also the press? That would make a ton of sense for a city themed plane, and fit well with blue black (both from an investigative journalism standpoint, which would also provide cover for spying, and from the fact that they could use their role as the press to spread propaganda and influence public opinion). It would also give the average Ravnican more of a reason to tolerate their existence, as they'd be serving a real need. I mean, I'd imagine Ravnicans would be more OK with the Dimir being around of they exposed Azorious red tape problems, Orzhov corruption, and Boros screw ups.
According to the Planeswalker's Guide to Ravnica, that's exactly what they do: "The Dimir are just like any Ravnican guild, serving a public purpose for the good of the city. They often serve as couriers, investigators, reporters, and archivists. They serve twin purposes: to give the rest of Ravnica a "friendly" face of the guild and to be the street-level eyes and ears of the Dimir. Many entry-level candidates to the Dimir guild begin as overt agents until they can prove their trustworthiness."
I'd forgotten that they mentioned that. Thank you for referencing the article. Unfortunately, most of this has been neglected when it comes to the cards. It makes the idea that any Ravnican's don't believe the Dimir exist even more ludicrous. Like I said before, it seems like they've drifted from RTR.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
It's really weird they don't play up those "mundane" functions of the guilds, seeng as Ravnica is an urban plane sorely in need of some proper urban flavour.
It's really weird they don't play up those "mundane" functions of the guilds, seeng as Ravnica is an urban plane sorely in need of some proper urban flavour.
I am going to say that is a function of the constant swings to keep Ravnica "not peaceful"
Before RTR the Implication was that the vast majority of people were in Guilds, that the Guilds were the entire foundation of the plane..then in RTR suddenly "Oh half the population is Guildless." before the "Entire plane is a city, the wilds are parts of the city that turned into slums and were abandoned." and now it is.."On no the City of Guilds was just this main section."
and that isn't even getting into things like "When we left at the end of Ravnica 1 we had the Ghosts to deal with, Teysa setting up a new Guildpact with Feather and Jarod." and come RTR "None of that Matters, Jarod is apparently became Evil off Screen..and Teysa and Feather just don't matter."
It's really weird they don't play up those "mundane" functions of the guilds, seeng as Ravnica is an urban plane sorely in need of some proper urban flavour.
I am going to say that is a function of the constant swings to keep Ravnica "not peaceful"
Before RTR the Implication was that the vast majority of people were in Guilds, that the Guilds were the entire foundation of the plane..then in RTR suddenly "Oh half the population is Guildless." before the "Entire plane is a city, the wilds are parts of the city that turned into slums and were abandoned." and now it is.."On no the City of Guilds was just this main section."
and that isn't even getting into things like "When we left at the end of Ravnica 1 we had the Ghosts to deal with, Teysa setting up a new Guildpact with Feather and Jarod." and come RTR "None of that Matters, Jarod is apparently became Evil off Screen..and Teysa and Feather just don't matter."
Actually, most of the things you said didn't work out like you described. People seem to have weird ideas about the first Ravnica. The whole Guildpact book was about a "not urbanized" part of the plane (Utvara) and the efforts of Teysa to make it prosperous for her own gains. So no, it was clear from the start that natural wilds are more or less gone, but desolate places or areas were no one can live are quite common, as are great parks and nature reserves in the middle of the city and (as you said) slums. Neither RtR nor GoR contradict this. It was also never directly stated how much of Ravnicas population is part of a guild, the implication was only present since the card game mostly focused on guild members and the books were centered around protagonists that were also guild members. Even so I'm pretty sure that it was stated quite a few times in the books that not everyone is a member of a guild but still has to affiliate with them (through their employers for example). That was Agrus Kos position in (yet again) the Guildpact novel, he wasn't directly a member of the Orzhov, but he did work for one and therefore was connected to the guild.
The only actual big change that they didn't get too much into was Agyrem sealing itself of from Ravnica because of the Mending. I don't really see the problem with it though. It had a logical explanation for why it happened and was even foreshadowed (since Agyrem only really existed in the first place because the rifts sealed Ravnica from the rest of the multiverse). You might not like it, but that doesn't make it objectively bad or inconsistent.
Teysas guildpact just failed. Not the greatest continuation of this, but it never had any binding power (and sadly not many guilds were capable or interested in upholding it). Jarod didn't get any screentime after becoming a lich, which is the actual problem. It was hinted at in Dissension that this change could have an impact on his mental state, so who knows whether he has actually fallen to evil. Feather on the other hand, that I give you. They hinted at her being important for Lazavs plans... and then never mentioned her again until now. For all we know she is still in stasis. Teysa does matter, she was part of RtRs plot and she still has her own ongoing plotline about trying to finally bring down the Obszedat.
Feather on the other hand, that I give you. They hinted at her being important for Lazavs plans... and then never mentioned her again until now. For all we know she is still in stasis.
Feather on the other hand, that I give you. They hinted at her being important for Lazavs plans... and then never mentioned her again until now. For all we know she is still in stasis.
Wasn't Feather freed from her stasis by Krenko?
No, Krenoko disrupted the stasis field, took a Feather's feather (I always thought it should have cost him his arm), and cleared off just before the guards stormed in and seized Feather again.
The majority of Ravnica's population was always supposed to be guildless, from the first block on.
I also don't see how Jarod became evil offscreen. The only indication we have in that area is from an unreliable narrator. Why do people keep taking unreliable narrators at face value. What is this pandemic?
As for Teysa, I really don't see how anyone could expect her storyline to get picked up a) when the Orzhov aren't even in the first set and b) while we are getting "slice of life" kinda stories rather than the main plot which, as you might recall, will be covered in the accompanying book.
It's really weird they don't play up those "mundane" functions of the guilds, seeng as Ravnica is an urban plane sorely in need of some proper urban flavour.
I am going to say that is a function of the constant swings to keep Ravnica "not peaceful"
Before RTR the Implication was that the vast majority of people were in Guilds, that the Guilds were the entire foundation of the plane..then in RTR suddenly "Oh half the population is Guildless." before the "Entire plane is a city, the wilds are parts of the city that turned into slums and were abandoned." and now it is.."On no the City of Guilds was just this main section."
and that isn't even getting into things like "When we left at the end of Ravnica 1 we had the Ghosts to deal with, Teysa setting up a new Guildpact with Feather and Jarod." and come RTR "None of that Matters, Jarod is apparently became Evil off Screen..and Teysa and Feather just don't matter."
Actually, most of the things you said didn't work out like you described. People seem to have weird ideas about the first Ravnica. The whole Guildpact book was about a "not urbanized" part of the plane (Utvara) and the efforts of Teysa to make it prosperous for her own gains. So no, it was clear from the start that natural wilds are more or less gone, but desolate places or areas were no one can live are quite common, as are great parks and nature reserves in the middle of the city and (as you said) slums. Neither RtR nor GoR contradict this. It was also never directly stated how much of Ravnicas population is part of a guild, the implication was only present since the card game mostly focused on guild members and the books were centered around protagonists that were also guild members. Even so I'm pretty sure that it was stated quite a few times in the books that not everyone is a member of a guild but still has to affiliate with them (through their employers for example). That was Agrus Kos position in (yet again) the Guildpact novel, he wasn't directly a member of the Orzhov, but he did work for one and therefore was connected to the guild.
The only actual big change that they didn't get too much into was Agyrem sealing itself of from Ravnica because of the Mending. I don't really see the problem with it though. It had a logical explanation for why it happened and was even foreshadowed (since Agyrem only really existed in the first place because the rifts sealed Ravnica from the rest of the multiverse). You might not like it, but that doesn't make it objectively bad or inconsistent.
Teysas guildpact just failed. Not the greatest continuation of this, but it never had any binding power (and sadly not many guilds were capable or interested in upholding it). Jarod didn't get any screentime after becoming a lich, which is the actual problem. It was hinted at in Dissension that this change could have an impact on his mental state, so who knows whether he has actually fallen to evil. Feather on the other hand, that I give you. They hinted at her being important for Lazavs plans... and then never mentioned her again until now. For all we know she is still in stasis. Teysa does matter, she was part of RtRs plot and she still has her own ongoing plotline about trying to finally bring down the Obszedat.
To add, the City of Guilds, Ravnica City, was always the main section of the plane wide city. The whole plane is one continuous city, but it isn't one city that sprung up and spread across the plain, but numerous cities that spread out and eventually merged. Thus, the plane is one big city in a geographic sense, but that is made up of several cities in the political unit sense. The bulk of the action takes place in Ravnica City, which is the capital of the plane, the headquarters of all the guilds, and the one place on Ravnica that is shared between the guilds (other places are supposed to be largely under the control of single guilds). Its also implied that, aside from the rubble areas that the Gruul frequent, the areas between the main cities (in the political unit sense), while built up and cities in the geographic sense, are not as built up as the main political unit cities. Shorter buildings, less dense, small city level as opposed to the mega city nature of the main cities.
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The only actual big change that they didn't get too much into was Agyrem sealing itself of from Ravnica because of the Mending. I don't really see the problem with it though. It had a logical explanation for why it happened and was even foreshadowed (since Agyrem only really existed in the first place because the rifts sealed Ravnica from the rest of the multiverse).
That is not true at all, Jarad went from a loving father who took the job he had and became a Lich out of necessity to "Totalitarian evil guy who oppresses the Kraul." despite having zero on screen disposition that would indicate that he would do something like that. Heck he didn't even -want- the job of Parun he just ended up with it cause he shanked Savara, and Goglari work on Highlander rules.
Feather went from being in charge to being not at all mentioned except "Aurelia kicked her out."
The Second Guildpact went bust with zero explanation, it just "failed" because god forbid we have a plane that isn't in a state of perpetual everything is awful, because it totally makes sense for the Guilds, who have been existence for thousands of years who worked just fine under the Guildpact 1 to just say "nah screw that." to the second one when they have all the reason to want their monopolies to be enshrined in the law.
And yes, the mending closed the Rifts but that is a problem for me, because once again a story point from the first block gets completely wrapped up..off Screen. Also The Temporal Rifts of Dominaria being the source of "why planeswalkers can't go to Ravnica." creates a massive plot hole..because the Ghost Quarter Pre-dates the Guildpact.
The only actual big change that they didn't get too much into was Agyrem sealing itself of from Ravnica because of the Mending. I don't really see the problem with it though. It had a logical explanation for why it happened and was even foreshadowed (since Agyrem only really existed in the first place because the rifts sealed Ravnica from the rest of the multiverse).
That is not true at all, Jarad went from a loving father who took the job he had and became a Lich out of necessity to "Totalitarian evil guy who oppresses the Kraul." despite having zero on screen disposition that would indicate that he would do something like that. Heck he didn't even -want- the job of Parun he just ended up with it cause he shanked Savara, and Goglari work on Highlander rules.
Feather went from being in charge to being not at all mentioned except "Aurelia kicked her out."
The Second Guildpact went bust with zero explanation, it just "failed" because god forbid we have a plane that isn't in a state of perpetual everything is awful, because it totally makes sense for the Guilds, who have been existence for thousands of years who worked just fine under the Guildpact 1 to just say "nah screw that." to the second one when they have all the reason to want their monopolies to be enshrined in the law.
And yes, the mending closed the Rifts but that is a problem for me, because once again a story point from the first block gets completely wrapped up..off Screen. Also The Temporal Rifts of Dominaria being the source of "why planeswalkers can't go to Ravnica." creates a massive plot hole..because the Ghost Quarter Pre-dates the Guildpact.
Most of these points are pretty good. The ditching of popular characters from the original block was always a bad idea. Honestly, Feather should have been the Parun of the Boros, and the only reason that I think she was ditched was that in RTR they seemed to be positioning Aurelia as a potential tyrant, which has been abandoned entirely. She was presented in RTR as more zealous that Feather and more willing to use extreme measures, representing a more extreme faction within the Boros coming to power. In this block, she seems to have moved on to caring about everyone on the plane and not just dispensing justice. Jarad, otoh, was ditched so we could focus on Vraska. I think we'd have seen more of him if there were still novels, and it would have been good to see Jarad fail despite his best efforts and be overthrown by a naive Vraska, but we were never going to get something like that in these short stories. It was especially poorly handled in that we didn't even see how he got overthrown, everything was off screen, but I'll defer my final judgement until the block is finished because we might get a flash back or a more detailed telling later.
The Second Guildpact failing was stupid, I agree. It was detailed in an early planeswalker novel, and was a mistake. RTR would have been more interesting from a story perspective if the Second Guildpact was still in place and working, but the introduction of the Dragon's Maze presented a potential to destabilize the balance. You would have basically the same story, but rather than yet another plane in disarray having to be saved it would be about successfully preventing a disaster. The Second Guildpact being non magical meant that the guilds weren't being forced to abide by it, but did so voluntarily. It would have been interesting to see how that worked, and in what ways it was less effective than the OG pact (which, without magical enforcement, it would be), but also in which ways it was better. The discovery of the maze would be a logical threat to this balance, a magical force that could overwhelm the non magical guildpact and give whichever guild acquired it the power to take on the other 9 and win, something that would have been impossible under a magical guild pact but which the second, non magic pact couldn't counter. That would have both explained why, in the absence of a guild pact, the guilds still managed to end up relatively balanced against each other and still serving their old roles for the most part, and why a magical guildpact would actually be needed, while skipping over the whole stupid "we overthrew the guilds but then brought them all back a few years later and it was like nothing happened" retcon/nonsense.
The rifts thing, I though that it wasn't sealing the rifts that opened Ravnica, but the change in the nature of the spark making whatever was preventing walkers from finding it to stop working. Like, whatever magic Azor wove was looking for the old spark, and is still there, its just that it doesn't detect the new spark. If I'm wrong, please point me where the connection to the rifts is explained so I can learn more.
Agyrem, I never realized that it predated the pact, I thought it was a side effect of Ravnica being sealed off. The short answer is that it only existed because Ravnica block had a pretty pronounced Spirit sub theme, in order to connect with Kamigawa in Standard, so the Ghost Quarter was made to explain that. Ravnica is a world of hats, but it still had a ton going on in the first block, and wizards simply decided that the city theme and the guilds were enough and cut the spirit theme. Its still out there, somewhere, and its in their back pocket for special sets, or a future Ravnica plot line.
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So if the Ravnican Year is 365 days, then doesn't that create timeline problems, regarding the dating of the Mending? The Dominarian year is 420 days long, right?
Current year on Dominaria: 4560 AR. (With 420 days in a year)
Current year on Ravnica: 1076 ZC (with 365 days in a year.)
The Mending was 60 years ago on Dominaria(calculated roughly 25,200 days ago). That equates to 69 years ago on Ravnica. The Mending therefore occurred in the year 10007, give or take a few months.
The Guidpact and Dissension novels both explicitly take place in 10012 ZC, so five years after the Mending should have happened and purged Agyrem from the scene.
The story team is using the Mending to explain why Agyrem was purged from Ravnica--but that shouldn't work, because Agyrem didn't even overlay Ravnica until five years after the Mending.
Should be 1007 and 1012 now the handwave excuse is that the Mending wasn't instantaneous so even if the Mending on Dominaria with all the portals sealed happened on 1007, its not impossible for 1012 to be when the full effect occured on Ravnica. Now granted in the books the Mending felt pretty instantaneous when the last portal got sealed.
But I am not inclined to be that generous so I agree its probably just sloppy continuity like always. Hopefully VorthosJay can clear this ****show up, he has a got lot of work to do though.
The rifts thing, I though that it wasn't sealing the rifts that opened Ravnica, but the change in the nature of the spark making whatever was preventing walkers from finding it to stop working. Like, whatever magic Azor wove was looking for the old spark, and is still there, its just that it doesn't detect the new spark. If I'm wrong, please point me where the connection to the rifts is explained so I can learn more.
I thought that it was hinted that it was the guildpact that was keeping walkers out. Feather mention walkers started to show up on the plane less and less after it had been signed until they stopped coming at all. I believe was this pointed out before Azor being reveled on Ixalan, during the speculation on the Immortal Sun since it has a reversed effect.
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If I remember correctly (and I'm fairly sure I don't) the Guild Pact did indeed prevent planeswalkers from entering Ravnica, but the timerifts caused Agyrem to form, which in turn allowed Szadek to enter it as part of his plan to shatter the guildpact. So in a roundabout way the rift caused Ravnica to become open to planeswalkers again.
Agreed on the Flanderization. The reason they are allowed to exist is because Rakdos was needed for the guildpact. Keeping him entertained didn't originally mean just black comic goofy murder circus though. He was also entertained by the court politics and the run of the mill murder and mayhem. Rakdos was a darker guild the first time around, and in RTR in veered into gore based slapstick.
I think people too often conflate the evil alignment with "bad outcomes" and "bad actions." That's simply not the case. A good character can do bad things and create bad outcomes because they believe they are doing the right thing, or they believe that doing the wrong thing is necessary to do the right thing long term, or because they just don't have enough information to make the correct choice. The path to hell is paved with good intentions, after all, and intentions are what matters in alignment. An evil character can actually do a lot of good things and create good outcomes while still being perfectly evil, simply because they only did those things for their own benefit and it just so happened that their own benefit aligned with that of the greater good. See Dissenion, when Rakdos helps save the day by fighting Kraj and the Nephilim. When it comes to neutral characters, shades of grey is exactly where its at, and they do both good and evil.
The Azorious were Lawful Good. Augustin didn't orchestrate the downfall of the guildpact, that was all Szadek. He merely tried to take advantage of the fact that he recognized that the guildpact before anyone else (so he thought) to try to make the Azorious come out on top in the inevitable (in his mind) war that would result from the guildpact no longer keeping the balance. His motivations were an example of how even Lawful Good reasoning can lead down a dark path; he wanted to restore order on Ravnica because he thought it was what was best for the plane, and was biased towards his own guild's way of doing things. You could argue that he himself was more lawful neutral, but evil? Hardly. An evil character isn't primarily motivated by what they think is right, but for what they think is right for them. Keep in mind, this was almost entirely Augustin's doing without the knowledge of the rest of the guild. He manipulated the Senate into giving him dictatorial powers the same way Palpatine did in Star Wars: he took advantage of a crisis partly of his own creation (here he's not at Palpatine's level, because a lot of what happened in Dissension would have happened without Augustin, he just made no effort to stop it, while the Clone Wars were entirely Palpatine's baby). The Senate saw the chaos, death, destruction, and suffering caused by the Simic, Rakdos, and Nephilim, realized the guild pact was broken, and saw only one way to restore order for the good of Ravnica. Then, when they learned the truth, they reversed course and helped write a new guild pact.
The Boros are another example of how Lawful Good can go too far. That's sort of their whole angle, that they are so zealous in their pursuit of justice that they cause unnecessary harm. They are so convinced that what they are doing is right, they don't always slow down to make sure. Lawful Good is the alignment of zealous crusaders in D&D, and let me tell you, zealous crusaders can cause a lot of problems.
Simic is neutral. They are supposed to be shades of grey. Momir Vig is a great example of a neutral villain. He wants to remake the world, damn what anyone else wants. He wants to ensure the health of all of Ravnica, which seems like it could be a good aligned goal taken to an extreme, but he's unconcerned with suffering, or consent, and it becomes a neutral goal, dispassionate and amoral.
The Selesnya are Lawful Good. They are about order, harmony, peace and love, all that jazz. The Quietmen were doing evil stuff because they were taken over by the Dimir/Golgari conspiracy and acting without the Selesnya's knowledge. The Selesnya's main failing was their insular nature and hands off approach to the outside world, but that's not evil, and was as informed by a desire to live in harmony with the rest of the plane as it was from self preservation.
None of the guilds were ever perfect, but there's a big difference between a guild that strives to do good and falls short, or even screws up royally, with a guild that is affirmatively evil.
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Idk it took us until now to get two not "evil" Dimir characters and the Rakdos RtR story we didn't see a more noble side of the guild. Maybe on the card sure, but the cards most often show the stereotypes of factions anyways.
I think the Rakdos circus angle is a lot more...sellable...then just straight up demon blood murder cult. It gives them more of identity, we have already seen at least 2 other demonc cults (that come to my mind) with Innistrads demons and the cabal and the circus aspect self the Radios stand out. The Circus and entertain aspects also give reasons to why less pain wanting/giving people would join.
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Just my opinion, but there's no reason that the Rakdos, which predate the Innistrad cults and the Cabal as a demon cult, should have had to change to stand out. It already stood out from the Innistrad cults, which were more hidden "creepy cult" than the hellish murder and mayhem operating openly that was the Rakdos. The circus was still there, it just wasn't their entire schtick, so yes, making that their whole thing is a flanderization. And the circus doesn't give anyone who isn't all about murder and pain a reason to join, because that's what the circus is all about. It's just weirdly presented as socially acceptable now, a good place to take in a show for the average Ravnican, which just doesn't fit well with the rest of the plane. The neo Cabal was a bit closer, but they still had a gladiator theme that should have been played up more, as should the super rich aspect. The neo Cabal being so generic was lazy world building, they should have been buying off important figures across Dominaria to look the other way or let them operate in their territory, which would have made them more interesting and made there be a real reason that the Weatherlight crew infiltrating the Cabal was needed.
For the Dimir, we had a non evil character in RTR. The Dimir, Golgari, and Simic didn't get flanderized.
The Dimir and Simic are basically new guilds: the old, Szadek run burn the guild pact Dimir lost their reason for existing and the one person who really was the guild, so the neo Dimir rose up with a broader set of goals and a structure that lets them operate as a guild on par with the others instead of as a secret self destruct button. They escaped flanderization because they basically started from scratch with them in RTR. They are still in an awkward position in the new set, since as I said before they are trying to push the idea that many Ravnicans consider them a myth again, or at best that they are an open secret, which is dumb when everyone should remember their role in the first block and their sigil is on all the official guild pact statuary and art (like, in the first block, you'd see the 9 guilds sigils all together, and in RTR and this you see the Dimir sigil in there). I could see people being unsure about what exactly the Dimir do, and in RTR they played up the idea that the Dimir have fronts and covers like the Orzhov in the first block, legitimate services that people know they are involved in. In RTR, the Dimir had a famous library and provided schools and tutors. It would have been interesting if this was expanded on, and then you could have a reason why many Ravnicans don't know what the Dimir are really up to. Right now, it should be pretty clear that the Dimir are a guild, and that they famously used spies, terrorism, and assassination less than 100 years ago to destroy the guild pact, so it should be pretty clear that they are the spy guild, especially since now that's all they are really doing. Creative missed the opportunity to flesh them out better. Why aren't they also the press? That would make a ton of sense for a city themed plane, and fit well with blue black (both from an investigative journalism standpoint, which would also provide cover for spying, and from the fact that they could use their role as the press to spread propaganda and influence public opinion). It would also give the average Ravnican more of a reason to tolerate their existence, as they'd be serving a real need. I mean, I'd imagine Ravnicans would be more OK with the Dimir being around of they exposed Azorious red tape problems, Orzhov corruption, and Boros screw ups.
The neo Simic, meanwhile, haven't really gotten much in the way of characterization. They are still pretty much a blank slate. They lost the "corporate brand" flavor of the original and it was replaced with an ocean flavor. There just isn't really enough there yet though, we'll see what happens next set.
The Golgari actually came out of this looking the same as they did in the first block. Fittingly for the color pair associated with stagnation, they really haven't changed, and that's good because they are interesting, hypocrisy and all.
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Maybe them being all over the place was originally a point about how they literally just served the purpose to entertain Rakdos by their pure existence. As long as they were there they fulfilled their purpose and it didn't matter what they really did, mining ore, serving food or blowing themselves (and others) up. It also fits their hedonism aspect, that was always talked about conceptually when the guilds were introduced but never directly interwoven with the lore. They're basically a guild that, while having a purpose (unlike the Gruul), struggles to find a "hobby" to pass the time, so to speak.
At the same time the Ravnica guilds, being the first, are very broad and stereotypical of their colors and many of the cards and themes from the first Ravnica set are kinda bland. The Rakdos otherwise are just a blood hungry demon cult, which the Innistrad, Cabal and even the Kolaghan (replace demons with dragons) are at thier basic levels. As Flisch pointed out they where originally all over the place.
To further another point I think the circus theme is more sellable. The whole Ravnica idea is you playing your guild. A blood circus is more sellable theme than murder cult to people. And as this is a kids game, circus is a good substitute for clubs and other places of entertainment.
Pretty sure in the first Ravnica books they said there are Rakdos owned clubs and such that aren't as wild or bloody, so I'd guess the circus are the same.
Please remind me of this.
I mean thats kinda the idea, they have a face, are an office guild and they say the dark shadowy stuff was all in the past. Most of the guilds "reformed" themselves to the public when they returned liked this, with Simic being the biggest example.
Thats a fairly good idea, the Dimir running the media would make a lot of sense, thought interesting media doesn't seem to be an aspect explored in Ravnica.
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There was a story about a Dimir agent that taught at a school and was a sort of memory mage. He was a regular guy that happened to be Dimir, and I think it ended with him getting out of the guild because he liked teaching more, and got another agent (I think it was his dad?) to wipe his memories of the guild, which is how they let you get out.
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According to the Planeswalker's Guide to Ravnica, that's exactly what they do: "The Dimir are just like any Ravnican guild, serving a public purpose for the good of the city. They often serve as couriers, investigators, reporters, and archivists. They serve twin purposes: to give the rest of Ravnica a "friendly" face of the guild and to be the street-level eyes and ears of the Dimir. Many entry-level candidates to the Dimir guild begin as overt agents until they can prove their trustworthiness."
I'd forgotten that they mentioned that. Thank you for referencing the article. Unfortunately, most of this has been neglected when it comes to the cards. It makes the idea that any Ravnican's don't believe the Dimir exist even more ludicrous. Like I said before, it seems like they've drifted from RTR.
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I am going to say that is a function of the constant swings to keep Ravnica "not peaceful"
Before RTR the Implication was that the vast majority of people were in Guilds, that the Guilds were the entire foundation of the plane..then in RTR suddenly "Oh half the population is Guildless." before the "Entire plane is a city, the wilds are parts of the city that turned into slums and were abandoned." and now it is.."On no the City of Guilds was just this main section."
and that isn't even getting into things like "When we left at the end of Ravnica 1 we had the Ghosts to deal with, Teysa setting up a new Guildpact with Feather and Jarod." and come RTR "None of that Matters, Jarod is apparently became Evil off Screen..and Teysa and Feather just don't matter."
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Actually, most of the things you said didn't work out like you described. People seem to have weird ideas about the first Ravnica. The whole Guildpact book was about a "not urbanized" part of the plane (Utvara) and the efforts of Teysa to make it prosperous for her own gains. So no, it was clear from the start that natural wilds are more or less gone, but desolate places or areas were no one can live are quite common, as are great parks and nature reserves in the middle of the city and (as you said) slums. Neither RtR nor GoR contradict this. It was also never directly stated how much of Ravnicas population is part of a guild, the implication was only present since the card game mostly focused on guild members and the books were centered around protagonists that were also guild members. Even so I'm pretty sure that it was stated quite a few times in the books that not everyone is a member of a guild but still has to affiliate with them (through their employers for example). That was Agrus Kos position in (yet again) the Guildpact novel, he wasn't directly a member of the Orzhov, but he did work for one and therefore was connected to the guild.
The only actual big change that they didn't get too much into was Agyrem sealing itself of from Ravnica because of the Mending. I don't really see the problem with it though. It had a logical explanation for why it happened and was even foreshadowed (since Agyrem only really existed in the first place because the rifts sealed Ravnica from the rest of the multiverse). You might not like it, but that doesn't make it objectively bad or inconsistent.
Teysas guildpact just failed. Not the greatest continuation of this, but it never had any binding power (and sadly not many guilds were capable or interested in upholding it). Jarod didn't get any screentime after becoming a lich, which is the actual problem. It was hinted at in Dissension that this change could have an impact on his mental state, so who knows whether he has actually fallen to evil. Feather on the other hand, that I give you. They hinted at her being important for Lazavs plans... and then never mentioned her again until now. For all we know she is still in stasis. Teysa does matter, she was part of RtRs plot and she still has her own ongoing plotline about trying to finally bring down the Obszedat.
Wasn't Feather freed from her stasis by Krenko?
No, Krenoko disrupted the stasis field, took a Feather's feather (I always thought it should have cost him his arm), and cleared off just before the guards stormed in and seized Feather again.
I also don't see how Jarod became evil offscreen. The only indication we have in that area is from an unreliable narrator. Why do people keep taking unreliable narrators at face value. What is this pandemic?
As for Teysa, I really don't see how anyone could expect her storyline to get picked up a) when the Orzhov aren't even in the first set and b) while we are getting "slice of life" kinda stories rather than the main plot which, as you might recall, will be covered in the accompanying book.
To add, the City of Guilds, Ravnica City, was always the main section of the plane wide city. The whole plane is one continuous city, but it isn't one city that sprung up and spread across the plain, but numerous cities that spread out and eventually merged. Thus, the plane is one big city in a geographic sense, but that is made up of several cities in the political unit sense. The bulk of the action takes place in Ravnica City, which is the capital of the plane, the headquarters of all the guilds, and the one place on Ravnica that is shared between the guilds (other places are supposed to be largely under the control of single guilds). Its also implied that, aside from the rubble areas that the Gruul frequent, the areas between the main cities (in the political unit sense), while built up and cities in the geographic sense, are not as built up as the main political unit cities. Shorter buildings, less dense, small city level as opposed to the mega city nature of the main cities.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
That is not true at all, Jarad went from a loving father who took the job he had and became a Lich out of necessity to "Totalitarian evil guy who oppresses the Kraul." despite having zero on screen disposition that would indicate that he would do something like that. Heck he didn't even -want- the job of Parun he just ended up with it cause he shanked Savara, and Goglari work on Highlander rules.
Feather went from being in charge to being not at all mentioned except "Aurelia kicked her out."
The Second Guildpact went bust with zero explanation, it just "failed" because god forbid we have a plane that isn't in a state of perpetual everything is awful, because it totally makes sense for the Guilds, who have been existence for thousands of years who worked just fine under the Guildpact 1 to just say "nah screw that." to the second one when they have all the reason to want their monopolies to be enshrined in the law.
And yes, the mending closed the Rifts but that is a problem for me, because once again a story point from the first block gets completely wrapped up..off Screen. Also The Temporal Rifts of Dominaria being the source of "why planeswalkers can't go to Ravnica." creates a massive plot hole..because the Ghost Quarter Pre-dates the Guildpact.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Most of these points are pretty good. The ditching of popular characters from the original block was always a bad idea. Honestly, Feather should have been the Parun of the Boros, and the only reason that I think she was ditched was that in RTR they seemed to be positioning Aurelia as a potential tyrant, which has been abandoned entirely. She was presented in RTR as more zealous that Feather and more willing to use extreme measures, representing a more extreme faction within the Boros coming to power. In this block, she seems to have moved on to caring about everyone on the plane and not just dispensing justice. Jarad, otoh, was ditched so we could focus on Vraska. I think we'd have seen more of him if there were still novels, and it would have been good to see Jarad fail despite his best efforts and be overthrown by a naive Vraska, but we were never going to get something like that in these short stories. It was especially poorly handled in that we didn't even see how he got overthrown, everything was off screen, but I'll defer my final judgement until the block is finished because we might get a flash back or a more detailed telling later.
The Second Guildpact failing was stupid, I agree. It was detailed in an early planeswalker novel, and was a mistake. RTR would have been more interesting from a story perspective if the Second Guildpact was still in place and working, but the introduction of the Dragon's Maze presented a potential to destabilize the balance. You would have basically the same story, but rather than yet another plane in disarray having to be saved it would be about successfully preventing a disaster. The Second Guildpact being non magical meant that the guilds weren't being forced to abide by it, but did so voluntarily. It would have been interesting to see how that worked, and in what ways it was less effective than the OG pact (which, without magical enforcement, it would be), but also in which ways it was better. The discovery of the maze would be a logical threat to this balance, a magical force that could overwhelm the non magical guildpact and give whichever guild acquired it the power to take on the other 9 and win, something that would have been impossible under a magical guild pact but which the second, non magic pact couldn't counter. That would have both explained why, in the absence of a guild pact, the guilds still managed to end up relatively balanced against each other and still serving their old roles for the most part, and why a magical guildpact would actually be needed, while skipping over the whole stupid "we overthrew the guilds but then brought them all back a few years later and it was like nothing happened" retcon/nonsense.
The rifts thing, I though that it wasn't sealing the rifts that opened Ravnica, but the change in the nature of the spark making whatever was preventing walkers from finding it to stop working. Like, whatever magic Azor wove was looking for the old spark, and is still there, its just that it doesn't detect the new spark. If I'm wrong, please point me where the connection to the rifts is explained so I can learn more.
Agyrem, I never realized that it predated the pact, I thought it was a side effect of Ravnica being sealed off. The short answer is that it only existed because Ravnica block had a pretty pronounced Spirit sub theme, in order to connect with Kamigawa in Standard, so the Ghost Quarter was made to explain that. Ravnica is a world of hats, but it still had a ton going on in the first block, and wizards simply decided that the city theme and the guilds were enough and cut the spirit theme. Its still out there, somewhere, and its in their back pocket for special sets, or a future Ravnica plot line.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Current year on Dominaria: 4560 AR. (With 420 days in a year)
Current year on Ravnica: 1076 ZC (with 365 days in a year.)
The Mending was 60 years ago on Dominaria(calculated roughly 25,200 days ago). That equates to 69 years ago on Ravnica. The Mending therefore occurred in the year 10007, give or take a few months.
The Guidpact and Dissension novels both explicitly take place in 10012 ZC, so five years after the Mending should have happened and purged Agyrem from the scene.
The story team is using the Mending to explain why Agyrem was purged from Ravnica--but that shouldn't work, because Agyrem didn't even overlay Ravnica until five years after the Mending.
Are all my numbers right?
Should be 1007 and 1012 now the handwave excuse is that the Mending wasn't instantaneous so even if the Mending on Dominaria with all the portals sealed happened on 1007, its not impossible for 1012 to be when the full effect occured on Ravnica. Now granted in the books the Mending felt pretty instantaneous when the last portal got sealed.
But I am not inclined to be that generous so I agree its probably just sloppy continuity like always. Hopefully VorthosJay can clear this ****show up, he has a got lot of work to do though.
So more likely I expect that Dominaria's day last only 20 hours or so, and the year's time is equivalent...
And the zeros are right. During first Ravnica, it was Decamillenium celebration ;-)
I thought that it was hinted that it was the guildpact that was keeping walkers out. Feather mention walkers started to show up on the plane less and less after it had been signed until they stopped coming at all. I believe was this pointed out before Azor being reveled on Ixalan, during the speculation on the Immortal Sun since it has a reversed effect.
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