And based on Maro's comment that these take place roughly around the same time as Dominaria, I wonder if we will see Liliana next set then. I'm hoping not, would like to see someone else working for Bolas.
I don't remember if Isperia was involved with any of Vraska's injustice, so correct me if so.
Vraska blamed Azorious as a whole for her treatment while imprisoned and Jarad for allowing it in the first place, as well as Jace for being the guildpact.
Could be me overreading imagery but the glowing orange symbol in the middle looks vaguely like Bolas horns. Could also potentially be the planar bridge. Weird to see those little flying cars as vehicles would be new to Ravnica. Of the two small figures on the ground in between the towers one seems to have a fur-lined cape and glowing purple eyes so could be Liliana.
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GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
[quote from="OrzhovPlaneswalker »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/797890-grn-guilds-of-ravnica-general-discussion?comment=99"]
Anyway, here is a sneak peek at Azorius land. My money is on Hallowed Fountain (it is the same scene as on RtR art)
Notice anything interesting?
Caranthir with the scoop again.
I find it very interesting but havent quite figured out why
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
Could be me overreading imagery but the glowing orange symbol in the middle looks vaguely like Bolas horns. Could also potentially be the planar bridge. Weird to see those little flying cars as vehicles would be new to Ravnica. Of the two small figures on the ground in between the towers one seems to have a fur-lined cape and glowing purple eyes so could be Liliana.
They look very reminiscent of Kaladeshi thopters to me (implying Tezzeret, possibly EDIT: or, and I really hope not, Dovin Baan), beyond that the inverted triangle motif at the base of the towers is very evocative of Bolas's horns and the gem between them.
It probably will be Dovin, which sucks. He really has no business being a full on villain. It's not like he's evil in any way. At least I'll get another card for him in all likelihood.
It probably will be Dovin, which sucks. He really has no business being a full on villain. It's not like he's evil in any way. At least I'll get another card for him in all likelihood.
Sums up my feelings perfectly. I really loved his character in Kaladesh, and would(will) hate to see it get assassinated by relegating him to being a Bolas pawn. Bad enough they already did/are doing that with Ral Zarek.
It probably will be Dovin, which sucks. He really has no business being a full on villain. It's not like he's evil in any way. At least I'll get another card for him in all likelihood.
Sums up my feelings perfectly. I really loved his character in Kaladesh, and would(will) hate to see it get assassinated by relegating him to being a Bolas pawn. Bad enough they already did/are doing that with Ral Zarek.
Yes, I did mean Aurelia in my last post.
It’s possible that Dovin was tricked by Tezz and followed him to some plane where he got his independence crushed by Bolas. Tragic.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Jace gonna come back and be like "No problem Vraska for offing the sphinx guild leader. Sphinxes, I hate those guys XD." zzz
But does he (Jace) have any fits with Isperia herself? I'm not that well versed with the Ravnican lores yet.
______________________
I'm a bit saddened with Isperia's off-ing tho. She seems to be a much better leader than Augustin was. Here's hoping Aurelia dies (hopefully by Bolas squishing her snotty behind) as compensation.
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Could be me overreading imagery but the glowing orange symbol in the middle looks vaguely like Bolas horns. Could also potentially be the planar bridge. Weird to see those little flying cars as vehicles would be new to Ravnica. Of the two small figures on the ground in between the towers one seems to have a fur-lined cape and glowing purple eyes so could be Liliana.
They look very reminiscent of Kaladeshi thopters to me (implying Tezzeret, possibly EDIT: or, and I really hope not, Dovin Baan), beyond that the inverted triangle motif at the base of the towers is very evocative of Bolas's horns and the gem between them.
Yeah, the Kaladeshi thopters are what I had in mind.
Also, the structure above the fountain, that is apparently a new addition compared to last time.
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I'm pretty sure this confirms Tezzeret as the head of the Azorius, not Dovin.
Dovin is not an artificer. Putting him in charge of the Azorius wouldn't suddenly let them develop them Thopters. He knows all about their regulations, of course, but that's not the same as having the technical know-how.
Tezzeret makes way more sense. In fact I was thinking along these lines before seeing that art:
1) It makes sense that Tezzeret would be one of the five planeswalkers taking over a guild, he's basically Bolas' best known pawn so it would be weird to leave him out.
2) A Tezzeret card would necessarily be mechanically related to artifacts. You can't just print a Tezzeret card without that connection. However, having a (gold) card that cares about artifacts while none of the mechanics in the set do is strange. And you can't just put a bunch of extra artifacts in the set because it's already a gold set so there's no extra space. Therefore, the guild he takes over must have a connection to artifacts.
3) Tezzeret has always been blue, so he would either need to be Azorius or Simic. Simic doesn't make sense for caring about artifacts, leaving Azorius. I did consider Rakdos as an outside option, as black and red have had artifact-related abilities in the past, but it would be weird to have Tezzeret shift away from blue (although to be fair, the way he was portrayed in the AEther Revolt stories, he seemed way more black/red than blue to me).
4) All that would mean that Azorius (most likely) would care about artifacts. This is actually foreshadowed in M19, where the UW combination has a lot of artifact-matters cards. Seeding a theme is something they like to do to make cards from different sets in Standard play well together, and let decks develop over time.
From this I suspected strongly that Azorius would have an artifact-related mechanic, and Tezzeret would be its leader. The Thopters in the artwork pretty much confirm this for me.
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
It probably will be Dovin, which sucks. He really has no business being a full on villain. It's not like he's evil in any way. At least I'll get another card for him in all likelihood.
The Gatewatch did sorta come in and release a rebel and start a revolution, I would at least want to give the Gatewatch the finger if I were him.
Hello again, old user, new account, mostly same name.
Given the three missing Guilds alligning with Bolas new order are (for color balancing reasons) Azorius, Gruul and Orzhov, and given MaRo answers, setting in stone (pretty much, with wiggle space) that we'll see 5 planeswalker in Guilds (2) and Allegiance (3) and they will all be Bolas-Controlled Guild Governors. I suppose they will be bicolored. Liliana can't be here because Dominaria happens grosso modo contemporarely to the first 2 sets. So no gatewatch either...
Now for Azorius:
*It can't be Tezzeret, he was busy with Ixalan (not very much busy, but from what I see from MaRo behaviour I have the wild idea that Tezzeret was not involved in the Guilds).
*I bet it's Dovin Baan. That land art shows a good way to introduce thopters as a new way to enforce the Azorius law. And Dovin Baan is good at bureaucracy. Also as a vedalken he should be very much suited to enter the ranks.
*It could also be Azor. This is a wild theory, about giving Azor a brainwash and give him a new spark. I don't think Bolas would give him his spark back because the Immortal Sun is a big point for the plan surely, so it should be another spark. No idea. Not very likely as a theory, but you have to consider the fascination of this plan: moving Vraska (with already reasons to do it) to kill Isperia, then, boom! Azor the Parun himself comes back, and the Azorius go absolutely bananas.
We know Kaya will be here. To kill the Ozbedat payed by Teysa probably. So here we will probably have Bolas playing through Teysa interests. Teysa will be Governor but we'll have Kaya as an Orzhov related Planeswalker. Thinking of being in the paycheck of Teysa, but unknowingly working for Bolas.
Grull... No idea. I wouldn't bet on Sarkhan: he is a free spirit now.
Milk will have more planeswalkers. Not only Bolas, Gideon and Chandra. That set will probably have more Planeswalker we ever saw all together.
My curiosity: how do Dimir still manage to be a legendary guild? I actually never understood how they could be secret if there is their guild logo everywhere. Can anyone enlighten me?
Still unwilling to believe Baan is the new Azorius leader; he just doesn't seem like the Bolas-pawn type. Then again, neither did Ral, and we haven't heard how exactly Bolas has his claws in the new Viceroy. I'd love to get a new Sphinx walker (on Bolas's team) to take over for Isperia, but I'm not sure how likely we are to get a non-humanoid walker.
The Kaya inferences are probably spot on, working for Teysa who is working for Bolas (maybe with some long term plan to cut ties, but we all know how that never works). That leaves one more guild, which, to keep colors balanced, should be Rakdos. No surprises here, and I'm pretty sure we don't have a BR walker available to be the new leader, so I'm expecting a new character here. It'd be nice, considering each of the other four Bolas walkers (assuming Baan is Azorius) are returning characters. I could see Radkos himself remaining in power, and just aligning himself with Bolas of his own will. I could see Bolas throwing him a chunk of the city to have however he wants.
That leaves one more guild, which, to keep colors balanced, should be Rakdos. No surprises here, and I'm pretty sure we don't have a BR walker available to be the new leader, so I'm expecting a new character here. It'd be nice, considering each of the other four Bolas walkers (assuming Baan is Azorius) are returning characters. I could see Radkos himself remaining in power, and just aligning himself with Bolas of his own will. I could see Bolas throwing him a chunk of the city to have however he wants.
Rakdos would leave the green in minority. Only with Gruul as the 5th guild of Bolas we would have every color showing twice.
GolgariGB
IzzetRU
AzoriusWU
OrzhovWB
GruulGR
As graphically evident up here...
Also, another thing. If we have to trust the trailer, it's not Jace telling anything to Emmara: the secret teller lacks the white chin marks Jace has.
Nice catch, dunno about Gruul's place in all this, then. Makes me want rethink Orzhov being a Bolas guild, except for seeing Kaya on the cover of the Ravnica novel.
Not sure how having the least-together guild in his pocket benefits Bolas..
Also remember the creative teams picked who join Bolas on what they felt would be the best story, the need of color balance between the factions isn't set in stone. Only one I'd say for sure would be Kaya next set.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Also remember the creative teams picked who join Bolas on what they felt would be the best story, the need of color balance between the factions isn't set in stone. Only one I'd say for sure would be Kaya next set.
I'm not sure that's true. I'm pretty sure the splitting of the guilds would have been color balanced, even if Creative got ultimate say. Making color distributions askew is a big no-no unless they are actively trying to put across a point. Compound this with the fact that R&D don't like to shove too many walkers in the same color(s), and I'm pretty sure we can expect Gruul, Azorius, and Orzhov as the walkers for RNA.
I think Azorius, Orzhov, Simic, Izzet, and Golgari, would join Bolas. The common theme amongst them is that they are all aiming at creating Bola-style tyrannical structure; oppression, more oppression, experiments, more experiment, then recycle to do it all over again, although in this set up Bolas would end up with three blues.
Freedom-seeking guilds like Rakdos and Gruul would not appreciate Bolas. Boros would be wonderful pawns since they usually work with Azorius on executing laws (which is odd that Tajic would deny other guilds in his Guildgate quote). Dimir in their selfish sense would deny Bolas, or subjugate him from within. Selesnya like Boros could be turned into pawns with its cult-like unity (few people acknowledge that Selesnya is very much like a cult in its absolute unity).
Also remember the creative teams picked who join Bolas on what they felt would be the best story, the need of color balance between the factions isn't set in stone. Only one I'd say for sure would be Kaya next set.
I'm not sure that's true. I'm pretty sure the splitting of the guilds would have been color balanced, even if Creative got ultimate say. Making color distributions askew is a big no-no unless they are actively trying to put across a point. Compound this with the fact that R&D don't like to shove too many walkers in the same color(s), and I'm pretty sure we can expect Gruul, Azorius, and Orzhov as the walkers for RNA.
It won't make any color imbalance since the only thing it effects is walker color balance and those are somewhat flexible (Theros had 3 walkers with green in them and Kaladesh had 3 walkers in blue in them ect) since they just want to have each color show up at least once. With Kaya in the mix it kinda balances out already.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Also remember the creative teams picked who join Bolas on what they felt would be the best story, the need of color balance between the factions isn't set in stone. Only one I'd say for sure would be Kaya next set.
That's true, but I am fond that the Senate is Bolas', because they choose (storywise) to have the Azorius in the second set, after Isperia dies in the first: precisely timed to put a puppet of Bolas.
Then, knowing the second set has 3 guild controlled by Bolas, exclude we can have Selesnya or Boros with Bolas (either would have been extremely interesting in the noir story), leaving 3 guilds (Gruul, Simic and Rakdos) that I can't find valuable in this story. So it could have actually ended up being a choice of balance over the 5th guild, also considering a foreseen problem with the mechanics of the third set.
Also, little speculation on the third set, we are counting on the fact that Bolas is going to wage war on Ravnica for an inestimable reason, but what if the eternals are to be directed on another (real) target and the plan of Bolas is only to attract every planeswalker who is after him to trap them on the city plane with the Immortal Sun?
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And based on Maro's comment that these take place roughly around the same time as Dominaria, I wonder if we will see Liliana next set then. I'm hoping not, would like to see someone else working for Bolas.
Vraska blamed Azorious as a whole for her treatment while imprisoned and Jarad for allowing it in the first place, as well as Jace for being the guildpact.
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Caranthir with the scoop again.
I find it very interesting but havent quite figured out why
They look very reminiscent of Kaladeshi thopters to me (implying Tezzeret, possibly EDIT: or, and I really hope not, Dovin Baan), beyond that the inverted triangle motif at the base of the towers is very evocative of Bolas's horns and the gem between them.
Yes, I did mean Aurelia in my last post.
It’s possible that Dovin was tricked by Tezz and followed him to some plane where he got his independence crushed by Bolas. Tragic.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Well duh All Jaces Girlfriends get free passes.
But does he (Jace) have any fits with Isperia herself? I'm not that well versed with the Ravnican lores yet.
______________________
I'm a bit saddened with Isperia's off-ing tho. She seems to be a much better leader than Augustin was. Here's hoping Aurelia dies (hopefully by Bolas squishing her snotty behind) as compensation.
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Yeah, the Kaladeshi thopters are what I had in mind.
Also, the structure above the fountain, that is apparently a new addition compared to last time.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Dovin is not an artificer. Putting him in charge of the Azorius wouldn't suddenly let them develop them Thopters. He knows all about their regulations, of course, but that's not the same as having the technical know-how.
Tezzeret makes way more sense. In fact I was thinking along these lines before seeing that art:
1) It makes sense that Tezzeret would be one of the five planeswalkers taking over a guild, he's basically Bolas' best known pawn so it would be weird to leave him out.
2) A Tezzeret card would necessarily be mechanically related to artifacts. You can't just print a Tezzeret card without that connection. However, having a (gold) card that cares about artifacts while none of the mechanics in the set do is strange. And you can't just put a bunch of extra artifacts in the set because it's already a gold set so there's no extra space. Therefore, the guild he takes over must have a connection to artifacts.
3) Tezzeret has always been blue, so he would either need to be Azorius or Simic. Simic doesn't make sense for caring about artifacts, leaving Azorius. I did consider Rakdos as an outside option, as black and red have had artifact-related abilities in the past, but it would be weird to have Tezzeret shift away from blue (although to be fair, the way he was portrayed in the AEther Revolt stories, he seemed way more black/red than blue to me).
4) All that would mean that Azorius (most likely) would care about artifacts. This is actually foreshadowed in M19, where the UW combination has a lot of artifact-matters cards. Seeding a theme is something they like to do to make cards from different sets in Standard play well together, and let decks develop over time.
From this I suspected strongly that Azorius would have an artifact-related mechanic, and Tezzeret would be its leader. The Thopters in the artwork pretty much confirm this for me.
The Gatewatch did sorta come in and release a rebel and start a revolution, I would at least want to give the Gatewatch the finger if I were him.
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Given the three missing Guilds alligning with Bolas new order are (for color balancing reasons) Azorius, Gruul and Orzhov, and given MaRo answers, setting in stone (pretty much, with wiggle space) that we'll see 5 planeswalker in Guilds (2) and Allegiance (3) and they will all be Bolas-Controlled Guild Governors. I suppose they will be bicolored. Liliana can't be here because Dominaria happens grosso modo contemporarely to the first 2 sets. So no gatewatch either...
Now for Azorius:
*It can't be Tezzeret, he was busy with Ixalan (not very much busy, but from what I see from MaRo behaviour I have the wild idea that Tezzeret was not involved in the Guilds).
*I bet it's Dovin Baan. That land art shows a good way to introduce thopters as a new way to enforce the Azorius law. And Dovin Baan is good at bureaucracy. Also as a vedalken he should be very much suited to enter the ranks.
*It could also be Azor. This is a wild theory, about giving Azor a brainwash and give him a new spark. I don't think Bolas would give him his spark back because the Immortal Sun is a big point for the plan surely, so it should be another spark. No idea. Not very likely as a theory, but you have to consider the fascination of this plan: moving Vraska (with already reasons to do it) to kill Isperia, then, boom! Azor the Parun himself comes back, and the Azorius go absolutely bananas.
We know Kaya will be here. To kill the Ozbedat payed by Teysa probably. So here we will probably have Bolas playing through Teysa interests. Teysa will be Governor but we'll have Kaya as an Orzhov related Planeswalker. Thinking of being in the paycheck of Teysa, but unknowingly working for Bolas.
Grull... No idea. I wouldn't bet on Sarkhan: he is a free spirit now.
Milk will have more planeswalkers. Not only Bolas, Gideon and Chandra. That set will probably have more Planeswalker we ever saw all together.
My curiosity: how do Dimir still manage to be a legendary guild? I actually never understood how they could be secret if there is their guild logo everywhere. Can anyone enlighten me?
Still unwilling to believe Baan is the new Azorius leader; he just doesn't seem like the Bolas-pawn type. Then again, neither did Ral, and we haven't heard how exactly Bolas has his claws in the new Viceroy. I'd love to get a new Sphinx walker (on Bolas's team) to take over for Isperia, but I'm not sure how likely we are to get a non-humanoid walker.
The Kaya inferences are probably spot on, working for Teysa who is working for Bolas (maybe with some long term plan to cut ties, but we all know how that never works). That leaves one more guild, which, to keep colors balanced, should be Rakdos. No surprises here, and I'm pretty sure we don't have a BR walker available to be the new leader, so I'm expecting a new character here. It'd be nice, considering each of the other four Bolas walkers (assuming Baan is Azorius) are returning characters. I could see Radkos himself remaining in power, and just aligning himself with Bolas of his own will. I could see Bolas throwing him a chunk of the city to have however he wants.
Rakdos would leave the green in minority. Only with Gruul as the 5th guild of Bolas we would have every color showing twice.
GolgariGB
IzzetRU
AzoriusWU
OrzhovWB
GruulGR
As graphically evident up here...
Also, another thing. If we have to trust the trailer, it's not Jace telling anything to Emmara: the secret teller lacks the white chin marks Jace has.
Niv-Mizzet... gone?
Dovin being a law-abiding OCD, Bolas’s absolute power would be perfect for absolute law.
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Not sure how having the least-together guild in his pocket benefits Bolas..
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm not sure that's true. I'm pretty sure the splitting of the guilds would have been color balanced, even if Creative got ultimate say. Making color distributions askew is a big no-no unless they are actively trying to put across a point. Compound this with the fact that R&D don't like to shove too many walkers in the same color(s), and I'm pretty sure we can expect Gruul, Azorius, and Orzhov as the walkers for RNA.
Freedom-seeking guilds like Rakdos and Gruul would not appreciate Bolas. Boros would be wonderful pawns since they usually work with Azorius on executing laws (which is odd that Tajic would deny other guilds in his Guildgate quote). Dimir in their selfish sense would deny Bolas, or subjugate him from within. Selesnya like Boros could be turned into pawns with its cult-like unity (few people acknowledge that Selesnya is very much like a cult in its absolute unity).
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It won't make any color imbalance since the only thing it effects is walker color balance and those are somewhat flexible (Theros had 3 walkers with green in them and Kaladesh had 3 walkers in blue in them ect) since they just want to have each color show up at least once. With Kaya in the mix it kinda balances out already.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
That's true, but I am fond that the Senate is Bolas', because they choose (storywise) to have the Azorius in the second set, after Isperia dies in the first: precisely timed to put a puppet of Bolas.
Then, knowing the second set has 3 guild controlled by Bolas, exclude we can have Selesnya or Boros with Bolas (either would have been extremely interesting in the noir story), leaving 3 guilds (Gruul, Simic and Rakdos) that I can't find valuable in this story. So it could have actually ended up being a choice of balance over the 5th guild, also considering a foreseen problem with the mechanics of the third set.
Also, little speculation on the third set, we are counting on the fact that Bolas is going to wage war on Ravnica for an inestimable reason, but what if the eternals are to be directed on another (real) target and the plan of Bolas is only to attract every planeswalker who is after him to trap them on the city plane with the Immortal Sun?