I can agree on the battle with the leviathan to be simply a Bolas' propaganda, however that battle left behind it a very tangible remnant: the Talon Gates, with are all that remains of the skeleton of the leviathan after Bolas devoured it. If this battle with Ugin on the meditation plane is real, does it mean that Bolas devoured Ugin's body and brought his skull with him on Madara?
I swear that for only new thing we learn on the past of Magic, we lost another that we already knew...
It seems that the birth mountain is in Madara. Also, Bolas built his horns as statues there to show the power of dragons. Perhaps this is the actual genesis of the Talon Gates--the rest of the Madara landmass has since sunk, leaving only present-day Madara, and the Talon Gates is Bolas's ancient monument to himself. This direction is suggested in the story.
I really wouldn't mind another planeswalker battle to have truly happened sometime within the span of Bolas and Ugin's generation-spanning battle.
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
So it seems that Ugin's first planeswalk (and Bolas's first planeswalk) wasn't to the meditation plane we knew of prior to these stories. The modern meditation plane seems to be Bolas's recreation of the original one that was destroyed in his battle with Ugin (or he was exaggerating the results/extent of their battle such that it wasn't destroyed or could be repaired (heck, maybe Ugin won and this is Bolas retelling events in his favor)).
I think that it speaks to Bolas' nature that he sparked in such a mundane manner. He didn't spark in a grand fight or achieve the near impossible of stealing a spark. No, he was jealous of his twin, that he may not be special or have secret powers, and in that selfish rage, he sparked. For all his boasting and posturing, he's still just the fledgling caught in a tangle of branches, wishing he had the power to do more than cry out.
Could also be the leviathan battle did happen just not mentioned in the story. It goes with Bolas trying to claim he was the first and "only" planeswalker.
EDIT: Art book and map of Domiaria call out the battle (and point out the fight made the first rift) so I'm guessing it was omitted for plot and/or hasn't happened to Bolas yet.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm surprised by all of you getting upset at this story. This isn't Bolas' POV, this is his retelling of it.
Remember they just printed The Eldest Reborn. Maybe Arcades killed him and he got his spark when he was reanimated. Would Bolas admit to having fallen to another dragon? No, definitely not.
I like the idea that the Leviathan was really Ugin, and that the Talon Gates are the horns Bolas put on his birth mountain (or maybe Ugin's horns). But do you really believe Ugin attacked him? Do you then believe that Bolas really killed Ugin there? Maybe Ugin let himself get killed and pulled an Obi-Wan Kenobi.
I also saw people upset at how Bolas wastes time telling the story and doesn't just mind rape the girl. The Hedrons may specifically interfere with Bolas' powers. They are full of Ugin's magic. Maybe he needs to get the humans to help him get rid of the hedrons. Seemed like he had been there for a while, having murdered the hunting party.
Bolas was very one dimensional here. And a dimension that doesn't line up with how he should be by that age. But if we're to believe that he's still a childlike narcissist who cares about the opinion of a random teenager, then i don't know what to say.
Didn't he even state he knew that she was just trying to get him to talk? So what was the point. Eh, this chapter was weird. The plot moved half a step further, and no new information was gained.
Remember they just printed The Eldest Reborn. Maybe Arcades killed him and he got his spark when he was reanimated. Would Bolas admit to having fallen to another dragon? No, definitely not.
The Eldest Reborn seems to depict Bolas returning to Madara, through the Talon Gates, from the Meditation Realm during the events of the Time Spiral novel.
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There's a greater chance of Bolas lying than Ugin, though I doubt Ugin is above lying himself. All we know is that Ugin is Bolas's rival, but there's no evidence that he himself is a benevolent being.
Ugin persuaded Azor who, in many ways, was just as obsessed about absolute law as Bolas, yet he called Azor "friend", either that's truth or that he's using Azor (very likely), which is morally shady. The way Ugin spoke to the Gatewatch also shows that he's not above berating lesser being, ad he didn't help the Gatewatch deal with the titans or suggest an alternative immediately.
If anything, Ugin would be a more suave talker than Bolas, but one thing in common in both reality is that Bolas is incredibly vain, and only subject on Ugin could get Bolas to talk in length to prove his worth.
I mean, if "was not very polite" is the worst one can say about Ugin, I'd say he must be one of the most benign oldwalkers that have ever existed.
Having all that said, I find Ugin a much more compelling character than Bolas, mostly because Ugin is really complex in motivations. He's basically the trolley problem incarnate. He keeps swinging between heartless and caring often occuyping both spaces at once. He is anything but evil, but he is not really "good" either. Ugin is the perfect character that can be good or evil depending on who tells the story. Bolas on the other hand can be summed up as "selfish schemer" and that's almost everything you need to know about him, at least in his modern incarnation. What makes Bolas interesting is not so much Bolas himself, but the ripples he causes across the multiverse, like Amonkhet.
It's kind of funny. Rather than selling Bolas as a character, I find myself more compelled with Ugin's characterization throughout the whole Core 19 story. Not sure that was the intention.
Could also be the leviathan battle did happen just not mentioned in the story. It goes with Bolas trying to claim he was the first and "only" planeswalker.
EDIT: Art book and map of Domiaria call out the battle (and point out the fight made the first rift) so I'm guessing it was omitted for plot and/or hasn't happened to Bolas yet.
I'd say that the battle with Ugin which spanned uncounted years and ended with the breaking of a plane would be a reasonable way to cause a rift in the fabric of reality.
Bolas was very one dimensional here. And a dimension that doesn't line up with how he should be by that age. But if we're to believe that he's still a childlike narcissist who cares about the opinion of a random teenager, then i don't know what to say.
Didn't he even state he knew that she was just trying to get him to talk? So what was the point. Eh, this chapter was weird. The plot moved half a step further, and no new information was gained.
To quote from Hour of Devestation:
Over the long years, Nicol Bolas knew it served him poorly to be too much the dragon. But it was no fun to be the dragon too little.
His actions in this story are to sate his own ego and to toy with the puny mortal before him. As Flisch pointed out, Bolas often replied to Naiva's thoughts. He's having fun with her, giving her the hope that she could maybe stand against him before bending her to his whim. He's not one to pass up 'being the dragon' when he is confident that there will be no repercussion for doing.
These stories have been very good until now, but this is the first one I didn't care for. Bolas feels different here. Yeah, his ego is as big as we know it should be, but he doesn't feel as dangerous and brilliant here as he's been portrayed up until now. He allows Naiva to cajole him and manipulate his emotions, he bothers to explain himself to her, and even though he's playing her and trying to win her over (which he does in the end), for most of the story it feels like this girl is playing him. Bolas, especially pre-mending Bolas, should just be able to seize her mind and bend her to his will.
Furthermore, this story gives us almost nothing. We know we cannot trust Bolas' version of these events anyway, since so much of what we're reading is just his self-glorifying lies. Everything we learned about his later fights with Ugin and his clash with Ugin in the Meditation Realm would have come better from Ugin's perspective than from Bolas' waters-muddying monologue.
I get that the guy has "all the time in the worlds," but surely the Great and Glorious Bolas has better things to do than sit around chatting and justifying himself to a teenage girl?
It just feels out of character and incommensurate with what we know of Bolas's genius and power.
I read it as him playing with his food. From her POV, we know that she believes that she can distract him by getting him to tell his story, playing into both his ego and his insecurities regarding Ugin. The entire time, however, he's distracting her with the story. He abruptly finishes the story because he's finished getting into her head. He worked his magic on her without her realizing it. He's about control, and he's absolutely the sort that would take pleasure from toying with her, lulling her into thinking she can beat him, then slamming the door shut and revealing that she already lost.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
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Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
There's a greater chance of Bolas lying than Ugin, though I doubt Ugin is above lying himself. All we know is that Ugin is Bolas's rival, but there's no evidence that he himself is a benevolent being.
Ugin persuaded Azor who, in many ways, was just as obsessed about absolute law as Bolas, yet he called Azor "friend", either that's truth or that he's using Azor (very likely), which is morally shady. The way Ugin spoke to the Gatewatch also shows that he's not above berating lesser being, ad he didn't help the Gatewatch deal with the titans or suggest an alternative immediately.
If anything, Ugin would be a more suave talker than Bolas, but one thing in common in both reality is that Bolas is incredibly vain, and only subject on Ugin could get Bolas to talk in length to prove his worth.
Ugin and Bolas are very much foils, Ugin cares for the bigger picture/web of life and Bolas cares for himself and both will do whatever it takes to get what they think is the best for what they care for.
Could also be the leviathan battle did happen just not mentioned in the story. It goes with Bolas trying to claim he was the first and "only" planeswalker.
EDIT: Art book and map of Domiaria call out the battle (and point out the fight made the first rift) so I'm guessing it was omitted for plot and/or hasn't happened to Bolas yet.
I'd say that the battle with Ugin which spanned uncounted years and ended with the breaking of a plane would be a reasonable way to cause a rift in the fabric of reality.
Then why did it appear in Dominaria and not the mediation realm?
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I too think there are some Canonacity problems here, notably that Bolas doesn’t seem subtle, should easily be able to break open the hedrons (Sorin did easily ‘nuff), it he’s that curious, particularly as an oldwalker and all.
I have my reservations but am willing to await the last story before I give any final judgement.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
I too think there are some Canonacity problems here, notably that Bolas doesn’t seem subtle, should easily be able to break open the hedrons (Sorin did easily ‘nuff), it he’s that curious, particularly as an oldwalker and all.
I have my reservations but am willing to await the last story before I give any final judgement.
That could simply be a measure of whether one has the knowledge or not. Sorin was directly involved with trapping the eldrazi, and while he may not have been involved in creating the Hedrons, he certainly knew enough about how they functioned (remember, Nahiri wanted him to return to Zendicar to double check her work resealing the titans, that clearly indicates that Sorin had at least passable knowledge of the Hedron's workings).
It's the same reason why Sorin+Nahiri as oldwalkers couldn't destroy Ulamog, but the Gatewatch as neowalkers could. Sorin+Nahiri simply didn't have the tools/knowledge that would let them destroy Ulamog, and the Gatewatch got lucky using the knowledge Ugin passed to Jace about using the Hedrons.
Yes, Bolas has had 18years to potentially study the Hedrons, but there's no telling how long it took Ugin to design them, and it took Nahiri 40years to build them all with Ugin instructing her. It's entirely possible that even with Bolas' vast knowledge 18years simply isn't enough time to understand/possibly destroy them.
That could simply be a measure of whether one has the knowledge or not. Sorin was directly involved with trapping the eldrazi, and while he may not have been involved in creating the Hedrons, he certainly knew enough about how they functioned (remember, Nahiri wanted him to return to Zendicar to double check her work resealing the titans, that clearly indicates that Sorin had at least passable knowledge of the Hedron's workings).
It's the same reason why Sorin+Nahiri as oldwalkers couldn't destroy Ulamog, but the Gatewatch as neowalkers could. Sorin+Nahiri simply didn't have the tools/knowledge that would let them destroy Ulamog, and the Gatewatch got lucky using the knowledge Ugin passed to Jace about using the Hedrons.
Yes, Bolas has had 18years to potentially study the Hedrons, but there's no telling how long it took Ugin to design them, and it took Nahiri 40years to build them all with Ugin instructing her. It's entirely possible that even with Bolas' vast knowledge 18years simply isn't enough time to understand/possibly destroy them.
Yeah, plus Sorin himself is an incredibly ancient and powerful planeswalker. Obviously he's not as powerful as Bolas, because no one is, but I'd still put him in the top 10 most powerful planeswalkers of all time. Combined with his specialized knowledge of both the hedrons and life magic, it makes sense he'd be able to do something that Bolas couldn't. I also suspect that Ugin might've set up some magical defenses that specifically prevent Bolas from seeing or interacting with his cocoon; in the latest story, Naiva could see Ugin's body but Bolas couldn't, which indicates that something strange is going on here.
As for the whole debate about why Nissa and Chandra could accomplish what Sorin and Nahiri couldn't, I agree with you. It's also worth noting that Nahiri really wasn't that much of an oldwalker when she sealed away the Titans, she was still only a few decades old and didn't have anywhere near the level of power she displayed in Eldritch Moon. At the time, she would've been a lot closer to Nissa or Liliana than Urza or Freyalise, in terms of her magical experience and overall capabilities.
Could also be the leviathan battle did happen just not mentioned in the story. It goes with Bolas trying to claim he was the first and "only" planeswalker.
EDIT: Art book and map of Domiaria call out the battle (and point out the fight made the first rift) so I'm guessing it was omitted for plot and/or hasn't happened to Bolas yet.
I'd say that the battle with Ugin which spanned uncounted years and ended with the breaking of a plane would be a reasonable way to cause a rift in the fabric of reality.
Then why did it appear in Dominaria and not the mediation realm?
Presumably, because that's where Bolas, the fight's survivor (curious exactly how Ugin 'got better'), was jettisoned to by the (for lack of a better term) 'force' of a plane breaking (sort of like how a bullet discharged by the shockwave in the chamber of a gun punches a hole in what it is fired at).
God this is why I was worried about Bolas Origins. WOTC retconning things that don't need retconning. Not everything has to be caused by Bolas vs Ugin, it makes the universe small. There is nothing wrong with Bolas fighting a demonic Levithan.
Bolas does not have to be totally delusional or lying about so much and everything we learn about him makes him more generic as a villain.
You know those big horns Bolas built atop the birth mountain in place of the temple that once was there? You know how Madara is largely submerged? Methinks the Talon Gates are those same horns atop a now sunken birth mountain.
And the rift is created because he inexplicably got dumped back on Dominaria from the Mediation Plane?
Pointless Retcons.
It speculation bud, chill out until the story say so or not.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I guess,...again as Im interpreting almost everything Bolas is saying as Projection,....Ive read the story again and I would believe it was in fact Ugin who "killed" (sealed in the time rift) Bolas in the meditation plane (whic Bolas says caused a crack in the planes, eternities itself when "he" fell), and then as Bolas says he was dropped intothe rift at the Island Chain of Madara.
It never necessarily says that is the remnants of the birth mountain.
Of course some of the timeline is confusing me. When did the Battle with the Leviathan happen? When was Bolas Reborn from the rift? When did Bolas rule his Madaran Empire?
Why does Bolas mention the trap on Ixalan as "most recently". When is this story taking place (I understand 18 years after events of Fate Reforged but where in the main timeline is that?
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
God this is why I was worried about Bolas Origins. WOTC retconning things that don't need retconning. Not everything has to be caused by Bolas vs Ugin, it makes the universe small. There is nothing wrong with Bolas fighting a demonic Levithan.
Bolas does not have to be totally delusional or lying about so much and everything we learn about him makes him more generic as a villain.
This is a weird place to get mad at retcons. You know a place where no retcon has actually happened. People here have been saying this was the fight with the leviathan but that is pure speculation. A week ago the people here were shouting about bolas not naturally having a spark and wondering from whom he stole.
The actual retcons for bolas's origin story have been minor and mostly good.
I think it use to go
1) At First There Were Only Dragons the Elder Dragons and they fought a mulitplanar war leaving about half dozen left. -20,000+ or so
2) Bolas fights the Leviathan and forms the Talon gates -15,000+
3) Primeveals show up -10,000+
4) Thran vs Phyrexia -4000+
5) Urza and the Brothers War so Year 0
6) Freyalise and the World Spell 3000 years roughly.
7) Bolas falls at Madara about 500 or so years after the World Spell so 3500+
8) Mending and Bolas is Free about 4500
8) The Present is about 4560
We don't know much of what Bolas does between the Leviathan fight and falling at Madara put presumably he is killing Ugin sometime during that time period.
But who knows now we got Bolas lying about everything over focus on Ugin vs Bolas. Oh and random humanoids with pet dogs and mounted horses running around way eariler then they should be on Dominaria who can kill Elder Dragons apparently why? Cause who cares.
So assuming the above timeline roughly holds we should still be Pre Thran and almost 20 K Years in the Past give or take a millennium.
I swear that for only new thing we learn on the past of Magic, we lost another that we already knew...
I really wouldn't mind another planeswalker battle to have truly happened sometime within the span of Bolas and Ugin's generation-spanning battle.
EDIT: Art book and map of Domiaria call out the battle (and point out the fight made the first rift) so I'm guessing it was omitted for plot and/or hasn't happened to Bolas yet.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Remember they just printed The Eldest Reborn. Maybe Arcades killed him and he got his spark when he was reanimated. Would Bolas admit to having fallen to another dragon? No, definitely not.
I like the idea that the Leviathan was really Ugin, and that the Talon Gates are the horns Bolas put on his birth mountain (or maybe Ugin's horns). But do you really believe Ugin attacked him? Do you then believe that Bolas really killed Ugin there? Maybe Ugin let himself get killed and pulled an Obi-Wan Kenobi.
I also saw people upset at how Bolas wastes time telling the story and doesn't just mind rape the girl. The Hedrons may specifically interfere with Bolas' powers. They are full of Ugin's magic. Maybe he needs to get the humans to help him get rid of the hedrons. Seemed like he had been there for a while, having murdered the hunting party.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
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Bolas was very one dimensional here. And a dimension that doesn't line up with how he should be by that age. But if we're to believe that he's still a childlike narcissist who cares about the opinion of a random teenager, then i don't know what to say.
Didn't he even state he knew that she was just trying to get him to talk? So what was the point. Eh, this chapter was weird. The plot moved half a step further, and no new information was gained.
The Eldest Reborn seems to depict Bolas returning to Madara, through the Talon Gates, from the Meditation Realm during the events of the Time Spiral novel.
Ugin persuaded Azor who, in many ways, was just as obsessed about absolute law as Bolas, yet he called Azor "friend", either that's truth or that he's using Azor (very likely), which is morally shady. The way Ugin spoke to the Gatewatch also shows that he's not above berating lesser being, ad he didn't help the Gatewatch deal with the titans or suggest an alternative immediately.
If anything, Ugin would be a more suave talker than Bolas, but one thing in common in both reality is that Bolas is incredibly vain, and only subject on Ugin could get Bolas to talk in length to prove his worth.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
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Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
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Having all that said, I find Ugin a much more compelling character than Bolas, mostly because Ugin is really complex in motivations. He's basically the trolley problem incarnate. He keeps swinging between heartless and caring often occuyping both spaces at once. He is anything but evil, but he is not really "good" either. Ugin is the perfect character that can be good or evil depending on who tells the story. Bolas on the other hand can be summed up as "selfish schemer" and that's almost everything you need to know about him, at least in his modern incarnation. What makes Bolas interesting is not so much Bolas himself, but the ripples he causes across the multiverse, like Amonkhet.
It's kind of funny. Rather than selling Bolas as a character, I find myself more compelled with Ugin's characterization throughout the whole Core 19 story. Not sure that was the intention.
I'd say that the battle with Ugin which spanned uncounted years and ended with the breaking of a plane would be a reasonable way to cause a rift in the fabric of reality.
To quote from Hour of Devestation:
Over the long years, Nicol Bolas knew it served him poorly to be too much the dragon. But it was no fun to be the dragon too little.
His actions in this story are to sate his own ego and to toy with the puny mortal before him. As Flisch pointed out, Bolas often replied to Naiva's thoughts. He's having fun with her, giving her the hope that she could maybe stand against him before bending her to his whim. He's not one to pass up 'being the dragon' when he is confident that there will be no repercussion for doing.
I read it as him playing with his food. From her POV, we know that she believes that she can distract him by getting him to tell his story, playing into both his ego and his insecurities regarding Ugin. The entire time, however, he's distracting her with the story. He abruptly finishes the story because he's finished getting into her head. He worked his magic on her without her realizing it. He's about control, and he's absolutely the sort that would take pleasure from toying with her, lulling her into thinking she can beat him, then slamming the door shut and revealing that she already lost.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Ugin and Bolas are very much foils, Ugin cares for the bigger picture/web of life and Bolas cares for himself and both will do whatever it takes to get what they think is the best for what they care for.
Then why did it appear in Dominaria and not the mediation realm?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I have my reservations but am willing to await the last story before I give any final judgement.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
That could simply be a measure of whether one has the knowledge or not. Sorin was directly involved with trapping the eldrazi, and while he may not have been involved in creating the Hedrons, he certainly knew enough about how they functioned (remember, Nahiri wanted him to return to Zendicar to double check her work resealing the titans, that clearly indicates that Sorin had at least passable knowledge of the Hedron's workings).
It's the same reason why Sorin+Nahiri as oldwalkers couldn't destroy Ulamog, but the Gatewatch as neowalkers could. Sorin+Nahiri simply didn't have the tools/knowledge that would let them destroy Ulamog, and the Gatewatch got lucky using the knowledge Ugin passed to Jace about using the Hedrons.
Yes, Bolas has had 18years to potentially study the Hedrons, but there's no telling how long it took Ugin to design them, and it took Nahiri 40years to build them all with Ugin instructing her. It's entirely possible that even with Bolas' vast knowledge 18years simply isn't enough time to understand/possibly destroy them.
Yeah, plus Sorin himself is an incredibly ancient and powerful planeswalker. Obviously he's not as powerful as Bolas, because no one is, but I'd still put him in the top 10 most powerful planeswalkers of all time. Combined with his specialized knowledge of both the hedrons and life magic, it makes sense he'd be able to do something that Bolas couldn't. I also suspect that Ugin might've set up some magical defenses that specifically prevent Bolas from seeing or interacting with his cocoon; in the latest story, Naiva could see Ugin's body but Bolas couldn't, which indicates that something strange is going on here.
As for the whole debate about why Nissa and Chandra could accomplish what Sorin and Nahiri couldn't, I agree with you. It's also worth noting that Nahiri really wasn't that much of an oldwalker when she sealed away the Titans, she was still only a few decades old and didn't have anywhere near the level of power she displayed in Eldritch Moon. At the time, she would've been a lot closer to Nissa or Liliana than Urza or Freyalise, in terms of her magical experience and overall capabilities.
Presumably, because that's where Bolas, the fight's survivor (curious exactly how Ugin 'got better'), was jettisoned to by the (for lack of a better term) 'force' of a plane breaking (sort of like how a bullet discharged by the shockwave in the chamber of a gun punches a hole in what it is fired at).
God this is why I was worried about Bolas Origins. WOTC retconning things that don't need retconning. Not everything has to be caused by Bolas vs Ugin, it makes the universe small. There is nothing wrong with Bolas fighting a demonic Levithan.
Bolas does not have to be totally delusional or lying about so much and everything we learn about him makes him more generic as a villain.
You know those big horns Bolas built atop the birth mountain in place of the temple that once was there? You know how Madara is largely submerged? Methinks the Talon Gates are those same horns atop a now sunken birth mountain.
Pointless Retcons.
It speculation bud, chill out until the story say so or not.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It never necessarily says that is the remnants of the birth mountain.
Of course some of the timeline is confusing me. When did the Battle with the Leviathan happen? When was Bolas Reborn from the rift? When did Bolas rule his Madaran Empire?
Why does Bolas mention the trap on Ixalan as "most recently". When is this story taking place (I understand 18 years after events of Fate Reforged but where in the main timeline is that?
The actual retcons for bolas's origin story have been minor and mostly good.
I think it use to go
1) At First There Were Only Dragons the Elder Dragons and they fought a mulitplanar war leaving about half dozen left. -20,000+ or so
2) Bolas fights the Leviathan and forms the Talon gates -15,000+
3) Primeveals show up -10,000+
4) Thran vs Phyrexia -4000+
5) Urza and the Brothers War so Year 0
6) Freyalise and the World Spell 3000 years roughly.
7) Bolas falls at Madara about 500 or so years after the World Spell so 3500+
8) Mending and Bolas is Free about 4500
8) The Present is about 4560
We don't know much of what Bolas does between the Leviathan fight and falling at Madara put presumably he is killing Ugin sometime during that time period.
But who knows now we got Bolas lying about everything over focus on Ugin vs Bolas. Oh and random humanoids with pet dogs and mounted horses running around way eariler then they should be on Dominaria who can kill Elder Dragons apparently why? Cause who cares.
So assuming the above timeline roughly holds we should still be Pre Thran and almost 20 K Years in the Past give or take a millennium.