Also, I suspect that Ugin's study of the connectedness of all things will play a role in his death/ascension (as a Planeswalker and Spirit Dragon).
The linked natures of Bolas and Ugin may be mirrored in their ascenions, too: both ascend at the same time. Now, whether they become enemies before or after then ascend is yet to be seen.
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
We haven't gotten a real good description of Ugin yet in these stories, have we? Maybe I missed something (in the stories or on here), but he is not a "spirit" dragon yet, is he?
We've heard of the five survivors of the Dragon Wars, but Ugin would make six (ignore the Piru question at the moment)... unless he dies and is reborn as a (planeswalking) Spirit Dragon.
Thoughts?
I'm on this bandwagon. I would think that Ugin is not technically alive and may have been killed before the end of the Dragon war...possibly by Bolas himself. Naming each other might have some significance with the survival of Ugin's spirit. The brothers may be tied to each other's destiny in a way that doesn't let Ugin's spirit move beyond. The events of Cux of fate may occur after Nicol is able to figure out a way to kill the spirit of Ugin.
Of all the backstory we've gotten about Ugin vis-à-vis Azor's story, we've seen nothing that could possibly suggest such a scenario. It more sounds like Bolas decided to kill Ugin after the former discovered the latter's plot to permanently imprison him on Ixalan. Given what we know about their history thanks to these M19 stories, it seems that Bolas mostly just tolerated Ugin up until that point since they were brothers, but that attitude changed when Bolas discovered that Ugin had very serious plans to oppose him.
If Tormenting Voice's flavor text is any indication, it seems that Ugin had previously been just attempting to keep tabs on Bolas's schemes and trying to stop him from doing anything too destructive.
It's far more likely that a retcon will make it that there were more than just the five survivors of the Elder Dragon War. Retcons are pretty common nowadays, especially when the old lore is involved.
As far as the story itself goes, while a lot of people here seem to think that nothing really happened, there are definitely two things of note:
1. Bolas has discovered his mental powers (strongly hinted at last week when the human killed his brother in Arcades Sabboth's city), and this week when Bolas was trying to influence Ugin into fighting Palladia Mors. I'm assuming that his mental powers are the thing that Bolas was going to show Ugin when the narrative ended this week.
2. How fanatical the humans went for dragon blood when Ugin was injured at the dragons' birth mountain. Seriously, there's definitely some significance to these humans seemingly forming a religion around hunting dragons and fighting over who gets to drink the blood falling from Ugin's wound.
Not sure how large the Talon Gates are supposed to be, but it could be an interesting retcon/misremembered history if it was actually Ugin's body and the duel was between Bolas and Ugin.
1. Bolas has discovered his mental powers (strongly hinted at last week when the human killed his brother in Arcades Sabboth's city), and this week when Bolas was trying to influence Ugin into fighting Palladia Mors. I'm assuming that his mental powers are the thing that Bolas was going to show Ugin when the narrative ended this week.
2. How fanatical the humans went for dragon blood when Ugin was injured at the dragons' birth mountain. Seriously, there's definitely some significance to these humans seemingly forming a religion around hunting dragons and fighting over who gets to drink the blood falling from Ugin's wound.
Also, the revelation on Tarkir that the Ghostfire Jeskai survived somehow. I have a feeling this will end up being significant later.
The part about the dragon blood calls to mind these prophetic lines from the very first chapter:
"The odor of mortality cuts like a gust of wind through the trees. The death of a dragon smells like honey. Its sweetness is its power, although these hunters don't know that yet."
Not sure how large the Talon Gates are supposed to be, but it could be an interesting retcon/misremembered history if it was actually Ugin's body and the duel was between Bolas and Ugin.
I would welcome this edit to Dominarian history. This would tie some pieces together very nicely.
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
I am not sure "Ugin died to become the spirit dragon" is going to be a thing, I imagine that his ascension from his colors* to colorless has to do with becoming "The Spirit Dragon"
*I am thinking he is Green due to his focus on the natural order, and at least one of white or blue or both given his illusion flashbang bomb. Not that we are ever going to find out.
This author is really, really good. This is quality stuff. I hope she writes more for WOTC.
I think it's because there's fewer characters and slower paced. In Dominaria, there were too many important details to cover and not enough chapters, here the focus has been on Bolas, Ugin, and the hunter gang (who echoes the twin's situation).
I think Bolas left after he realized he could influence people's mind, including Ugin's, when he need to. I suspect he'd torn the human city asunder by making their members betray each other; Bolas has a fetish for manipulation. I shudder to think what he'd do to destroy the humans.
And Ugin noticed the human city and settlements were created to look like a pentagram; a hint of the earliest mana/Magic concept for humans? Curious since Ugin uses colorless, a concept that may be new to humans till later on.
At first blush I thought the stories were going to be several hundred years apart and focus on highlights of bolas' conquest, loss of power, and fight to gain it back.
After thinking about it a bit more, I think the stories may end with the dragon wars or aftermath shortly after and Yasova and the twins making it to Ugin and him pardoning yasova for her part in what happened to tarkir.
I don't see how they could squeeze in more without forgoing quality and a huge story pace shift in just 5 stories.
This author is really, really good. This is quality stuff. I hope she writes more for WOTC.
I think it's because there's fewer characters and slower paced. In Dominaria, there were too many important details to cover and not enough chapters, here the focus has been on Bolas, Ugin, and the hunter gang (who echoes the twin's situation).
I think Bolas left after he realized he could influence people's mind, including Ugin's, when he need to. I suspect he'd torn the human city asunder by making their members betray each other; Bolas has a fetish for manipulation. I shudder to think what he'd do to destroy the humans.
And Ugin noticed the human city and settlements were created to look like a pentagram; a hint of the earliest mana/Magic concept for humans? Curious since Ugin uses colorless, a concept that may be new to humans till later on.
Didnt help we wasted chapters on slimefoot and angel and vampire fanfic.
I still think this going slowly we got the Elder Dragon War to hit. But the focus is tighter.
This whole story is aces so far. Great pacing and structure. I love the return to Tarkir, it's such a great story setting, and such a nice break from the high tech/verging on sci-fi worlds that we've been visiting so much recently. And primordial Dominaria is pretty cool, too.
And nice to see an author who seems to be able to write teenage girls who are both realistic and not annoying!
Is being critical more important than being enjoyable? Look at the mess we got in BFZ. Very functional stories explaining how A got to B, but pretty terrible all around. I'd rather have a Slimefoot story than Gideo whipping his sural back and forth for 15 paragraphs.
Truth be told, some chapters could've been merged into one. But skipping the characters that are part of the story entirely feels like "sacrificing the story for the sake of the story". If we don't have time to get to know the characters what really is the story at that point rather than a dry summary.
I'm thinking Bolas discovered his red mana abilities and will make the volcano erupt in order to kill the humans living on it. All those walls they built will not protect them then, which adds fuel to Bolas's view vs Arcades's.
As for the whole Spirit Dragon thing and a connection, maybe Ugin's spirit is tied to Bolas's? Meaning as long as one of them lives, the other cannot truly die? It could -in broad strokes - explain a lot. Ugin and Bolas having a fight for some reason and whereas Bolas tries to outright destroy Ugin (being the more powerfull of the two), Ugin wants to imprison Bolas so he can be rid of him but continue living himself. Maybe, for Ugin, sealing the Eldrazi was first and foremost a test to see if really, really powerfull beings can be trapped using binding magic. The scheme with Azor could be the result of what he learned the first time. It would also make for an interesting dynamic one Ugin realizes the GW is going to kill Bolas - and thus Ugin - and he intervenes on Bolas's behalf.
I also think this is starting to explain how Ugin did what he did. By studying the connectedness of all things and binding magic, one could also use this binding magic in a positive way to anchor oneself to something else. Perhaps it's a trick Ugin will teach Bolas which could explain how Bolas managed to survive as merely a spirit in the Talon Gates the same way Ugin survived in his Nexus on Tarkir.
Also, with the ressurection of Ugin the Dragonstorms could be reduced in power again, restoring balance. We have seen the Temur still have not forgotten their ways, and neither have all the Jeskai. I'm sure the Kin Tree still speaks to some Abzan warriors and the Mardu are already living a nomadic lifestyle - just wanting autonomy from dragons feels like reason enough to turn away from Kolaghan. And it could all be triggered by a human (Taigam?) conspiring with some being with magic to kill Sidisi and Silumgar and reclaim the Sultai territories under human rule. Seems like a good setting forma return: The Clans of Tarkir.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Is being critical more important than being enjoyable? Look at the mess we got in BFZ. Very functional stories explaining how A got to B, but pretty terrible all around. I'd rather have a Slimefoot story than Gideo whipping his sural back and forth for 15 paragraphs.
Truth be told, some chapters could've been merged into one. But skipping the characters that are part of the story entirely feels like "sacrificing the story for the sake of the story". If we don't have time to get to know the characters what really is the story at that point rather than a dry summary.
Its the return to Dominaria the plane with the most sets in magic history and its been ten years real time and 60-70 years in Universe since we last went so in my book "enjoyable simply to be enjoyable" doesn't have much room in my book certainly not fun with irrelevant side characters we wont see for another 5 years. Maybe if we had more then one set. Covering critical stuff can be fun and enjoyable as well.
1) We learned nothing about the Raven Man. Besides he is not Bolas by elimination.
2) Didn't learn how or when Jhoira got Teferi's spark or why she didn't tell him for years apparently or why she thought it be okay to try to use it to respark a Weatherlight that cannot even plane shift anymore with his spark. I should note Zhalfir is gone because Teferi brought Ghitu Lands back first so that make Jhoira a terrible friend.
3) A big deal was made about Karn not talking to Jhoira cause of Venser that was wrapped up with one conversation between Teferi, Jhoira and Karn....they have known each other for over a millennium and we got one short reuniting scene.
4) Learned nothing about Belzenlok. Where or how he was trapped, the Demon War, heck no one even treated him as a major threat he was barely mentioned for most of the story.
5) Didn't learn when Jaya and Karn ran into each other to talk about Karn going to New Phyrexia. They have never met on page until now. They should know of each other.
6) Didn't learn why Jodah who absolutely hates Urza is teaching at Tolaria West when he still hates Walkers. Or why he is twiddling his thumb while Belzenlok conquers the plane when he was always complaining about how Walkers were terrible and didn't care about the little people.
7) Didn't see why Teferi decided to take the Oath or the actual oath on panel. Didn't see why Jaya and Karn said no. Lets get into the heads of these returning vets.
8) Had Radha randomly dropped in and she doesn't even talk to Teferi or Jhoira on page. Seems like a major deal that the leader of Keld not the most peaceful faction has their leader missing and no one knows or notices.
That is a short list with me trying to be objective. I still think the current story is going too slow and not a fan of all the developed humanoids running around but the tighter focus has done wonders in my book. Which surprises me cause honestly most of the time retconned origins for Villains go poorly.
Fair enough its not that I cannot see enjoyable stuff in those chapters just I don't see them as critical to the overall narrative and thus they can be removed to focus more on critical characters. Dominaria had a lot of ground to cover and I think the story didn't do a great job of it and part of the problem was splitting focus over too many characters.
I am not sure "Ugin died to become the spirit dragon" is going to be a thing, I imagine that his ascension from his colors* to colorless has to do with becoming "The Spirit Dragon"
Ugin isn't a ghost, so no, he doesn't have to die to become the spirit dragon. Spirits don't have to be souls of the dead (see: Kamigawa).
This author is really, really good. This is quality stuff. I hope she writes more for WOTC.
I've been enjoying it a lot, Dominaria had too much to cover in too little time. My only hope is that this plot doesn't drag on (heh) for the next five episodes. The frame story doesn't feel like it can believably support more storytimes.
Ugin isn't a ghost, so no, he doesn't have to die to become the spirit dragon. Spirits don't have to be souls of the dead
Does he even need to be a "spirit" to be called The Spirit Dragon, his colorlessness and ghostfire based magic would probably garner him that name just by default.
The linked natures of Bolas and Ugin may be mirrored in their ascenions, too: both ascend at the same time. Now, whether they become enemies before or after then ascend is yet to be seen.
Of all the backstory we've gotten about Ugin vis-à-vis Azor's story, we've seen nothing that could possibly suggest such a scenario. It more sounds like Bolas decided to kill Ugin after the former discovered the latter's plot to permanently imprison him on Ixalan. Given what we know about their history thanks to these M19 stories, it seems that Bolas mostly just tolerated Ugin up until that point since they were brothers, but that attitude changed when Bolas discovered that Ugin had very serious plans to oppose him.
If Tormenting Voice's flavor text is any indication, it seems that Ugin had previously been just attempting to keep tabs on Bolas's schemes and trying to stop him from doing anything too destructive.
It's far more likely that a retcon will make it that there were more than just the five survivors of the Elder Dragon War. Retcons are pretty common nowadays, especially when the old lore is involved.
As far as the story itself goes, while a lot of people here seem to think that nothing really happened, there are definitely two things of note:
1. Bolas has discovered his mental powers (strongly hinted at last week when the human killed his brother in Arcades Sabboth's city), and this week when Bolas was trying to influence Ugin into fighting Palladia Mors. I'm assuming that his mental powers are the thing that Bolas was going to show Ugin when the narrative ended this week.
2. How fanatical the humans went for dragon blood when Ugin was injured at the dragons' birth mountain. Seriously, there's definitely some significance to these humans seemingly forming a religion around hunting dragons and fighting over who gets to drink the blood falling from Ugin's wound.
Also, the revelation on Tarkir that the Ghostfire Jeskai survived somehow. I have a feeling this will end up being significant later.
The part about the dragon blood calls to mind these prophetic lines from the very first chapter:
"The odor of mortality cuts like a gust of wind through the trees. The death of a dragon smells like honey. Its sweetness is its power, although these hunters don't know that yet."
I would welcome this edit to Dominarian history. This would tie some pieces together very nicely.
*I am thinking he is Green due to his focus on the natural order, and at least one of white or blue or both given his illusion flashbang bomb. Not that we are ever going to find out.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I think it's because there's fewer characters and slower paced. In Dominaria, there were too many important details to cover and not enough chapters, here the focus has been on Bolas, Ugin, and the hunter gang (who echoes the twin's situation).
I think Bolas left after he realized he could influence people's mind, including Ugin's, when he need to. I suspect he'd torn the human city asunder by making their members betray each other; Bolas has a fetish for manipulation. I shudder to think what he'd do to destroy the humans.
And Ugin noticed the human city and settlements were created to look like a pentagram; a hint of the earliest mana/Magic concept for humans? Curious since Ugin uses colorless, a concept that may be new to humans till later on.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
At first blush I thought the stories were going to be several hundred years apart and focus on highlights of bolas' conquest, loss of power, and fight to gain it back.
After thinking about it a bit more, I think the stories may end with the dragon wars or aftermath shortly after and Yasova and the twins making it to Ugin and him pardoning yasova for her part in what happened to tarkir.
I don't see how they could squeeze in more without forgoing quality and a huge story pace shift in just 5 stories.
Fixed card tag*
Didnt help we wasted chapters on slimefoot and angel and vampire fanfic.
I still think this going slowly we got the Elder Dragon War to hit. But the focus is tighter.
And nice to see an author who seems to be able to write teenage girls who are both realistic and not annoying!
I don't think the chapters on slimefoot, Tiana, and Arvad were a waste I liked all three of those chapters.
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Truth be told, some chapters could've been merged into one. But skipping the characters that are part of the story entirely feels like "sacrificing the story for the sake of the story". If we don't have time to get to know the characters what really is the story at that point rather than a dry summary.
As for the whole Spirit Dragon thing and a connection, maybe Ugin's spirit is tied to Bolas's? Meaning as long as one of them lives, the other cannot truly die? It could -in broad strokes - explain a lot. Ugin and Bolas having a fight for some reason and whereas Bolas tries to outright destroy Ugin (being the more powerfull of the two), Ugin wants to imprison Bolas so he can be rid of him but continue living himself. Maybe, for Ugin, sealing the Eldrazi was first and foremost a test to see if really, really powerfull beings can be trapped using binding magic. The scheme with Azor could be the result of what he learned the first time. It would also make for an interesting dynamic one Ugin realizes the GW is going to kill Bolas - and thus Ugin - and he intervenes on Bolas's behalf.
I also think this is starting to explain how Ugin did what he did. By studying the connectedness of all things and binding magic, one could also use this binding magic in a positive way to anchor oneself to something else. Perhaps it's a trick Ugin will teach Bolas which could explain how Bolas managed to survive as merely a spirit in the Talon Gates the same way Ugin survived in his Nexus on Tarkir.
Also, with the ressurection of Ugin the Dragonstorms could be reduced in power again, restoring balance. We have seen the Temur still have not forgotten their ways, and neither have all the Jeskai. I'm sure the Kin Tree still speaks to some Abzan warriors and the Mardu are already living a nomadic lifestyle - just wanting autonomy from dragons feels like reason enough to turn away from Kolaghan. And it could all be triggered by a human (Taigam?) conspiring with some being with magic to kill Sidisi and Silumgar and reclaim the Sultai territories under human rule. Seems like a good setting forma return: The Clans of Tarkir.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Its the return to Dominaria the plane with the most sets in magic history and its been ten years real time and 60-70 years in Universe since we last went so in my book "enjoyable simply to be enjoyable" doesn't have much room in my book certainly not fun with irrelevant side characters we wont see for another 5 years. Maybe if we had more then one set. Covering critical stuff can be fun and enjoyable as well.
1) We learned nothing about the Raven Man. Besides he is not Bolas by elimination.
2) Didn't learn how or when Jhoira got Teferi's spark or why she didn't tell him for years apparently or why she thought it be okay to try to use it to respark a Weatherlight that cannot even plane shift anymore with his spark. I should note Zhalfir is gone because Teferi brought Ghitu Lands back first so that make Jhoira a terrible friend.
3) A big deal was made about Karn not talking to Jhoira cause of Venser that was wrapped up with one conversation between Teferi, Jhoira and Karn....they have known each other for over a millennium and we got one short reuniting scene.
4) Learned nothing about Belzenlok. Where or how he was trapped, the Demon War, heck no one even treated him as a major threat he was barely mentioned for most of the story.
5) Didn't learn when Jaya and Karn ran into each other to talk about Karn going to New Phyrexia. They have never met on page until now. They should know of each other.
6) Didn't learn why Jodah who absolutely hates Urza is teaching at Tolaria West when he still hates Walkers. Or why he is twiddling his thumb while Belzenlok conquers the plane when he was always complaining about how Walkers were terrible and didn't care about the little people.
7) Didn't see why Teferi decided to take the Oath or the actual oath on panel. Didn't see why Jaya and Karn said no. Lets get into the heads of these returning vets.
8) Had Radha randomly dropped in and she doesn't even talk to Teferi or Jhoira on page. Seems like a major deal that the leader of Keld not the most peaceful faction has their leader missing and no one knows or notices.
That is a short list with me trying to be objective. I still think the current story is going too slow and not a fan of all the developed humanoids running around but the tighter focus has done wonders in my book. Which surprises me cause honestly most of the time retconned origins for Villains go poorly.
The whole problem is the second set of Dominaria getting the axe, not the fact that Slimefoot and Arvad got some fleshing out chapters.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I've been enjoying it a lot, Dominaria had too much to cover in too little time. My only hope is that this plot doesn't drag on (heh) for the next five episodes. The frame story doesn't feel like it can believably support more storytimes.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Does he even need to be a "spirit" to be called The Spirit Dragon, his colorlessness and ghostfire based magic would probably garner him that name just by default.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
So sad! I’m not American and understand that they didn’t give one on their holiday but a whole week without a story?!??
I’ll only be reconciled by a Plane Shift this week lol!
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi