I used to not really care about pre-Time Spiral Magic history, but since I read about the Thallids (one of my favourite tribes) on the Wiki and listened to an episode of the Vorthos Cast about the Ice Age, I've kind of become a fan of Sarpadia. So after hearing and reading about the story of Fallen Empires, I started to wonder how a modern-day Sarpadia would look like.
The continent only got a few nods in Dominaria (2018), probably because there simply wasn't enough space in the set, but possibly also because of what I'd call the "thrull problem". It's something that you have to deal with when considering a "Return to Sarpadia" of sorts, or planning to (re-)incorporate Sarpadia into Dominaria story-wise to make is less obscure and isolated.
Simply put: The thrulls are too overpowered and too dominant. In an old interview article with Pete Venters, he even said that the only thing preventing the thrulls from overrunning the whole of Dominaria was their lack of imagination (to think there was anything beyond Sarpadia's horizons). I think this is what currently prevents Sarpadia from appearing prominently in the story, because as long as you let the thrulls keep their old power level, having them interact with anyone from outside of their continent would eventually lead to a new invasion event of almost phyrexian proportions. So I think if the continent ever appeared in newer Magic lore again, the thrulls would have to be nerfed significantly in order to allow for a greater diversity of fantasy races, types of magic and interesting conflicts. You could have humans, elves and other species trying to re-settle etc.
I'm interested in everyone's take on this. How would or should a revisit to Sarpadia look like?
What's interesting is that Thrulls and Thallids have both escaped Sarpadia! Feral Abomination shows a giant scary Thrull on Urborg! So I don't think it's that far out of the possibility.
I've always been fascinated by the possibilities of a return to Sarpadia (I self-designed a whole custom card expansion around the idea several years ago). I love the thrulls and thallids, and to me the interesting thing about exploring present-day Sarpadia would be the theme of recovering from the ecological collapse into the thrull/thallid monocultures, and recovering the remnants of the old empires.
Sadly for me, I figure those themes are more likely to be explored elsewhere in the official game. Dominaria has covered most of the themes of heritage and history that I thought Sarpadia could be about (and I'm not complaining, it's awesome!), and a story about recovering from ecological collapse can probably be more fruitfully told in a return to Zendikar or Amonkhet.
What's interesting is that Thrulls and Thallids have both escaped Sarpadia! Feral Abomination shows a giant scary Thrull on Urborg! So I don't think it's that far out of the possibility.
Nothing says that's a Sarpadian Thrull, Endrek Sahr got Timespiraled to Mending era Dominaria and could have taught the cabal how to make thrulls, and they kept a better lid on it, or they figured it out themselves.
Side note, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Phyrexians did invade Sarpadia during the Invasion, and that the thrulls there gave them stiff resistence. If true, creative can use this as a springboard to say that the Invasion and eventual Rift crisis and other Dominarian catastrophes greatly reduced the thrulls in number and ended their ability to threaten the plane. Of course, the real issue with a return to Sarpadia is that it just won't be Sarpadia. The Fallen Empires have long fallen and only the Vodalians remain with any memory of it. Them and the Thrulls and Thallids. The Dwarves, goblins, Ebon Hand, Icatia, orcs, and elves are all long dead. You'd really have to lean hard on Thallids, thrulls, and Homarids to connect to the original set. There aren't even any mechanical connections because its big things were tribal, of which those three remain, and spore counters, which Thallids cover.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
What's interesting is that Thrulls and Thallids have both escaped Sarpadia! Feral Abomination shows a giant scary Thrull on Urborg! So I don't think it's that far out of the possibility.
To be fair, the tempest version of Blood Pet shows that the evincars or other residents of Rath could create thrulls (granted, they likely had the technology from phyrexia but still) Due to the overlay it's not unthinkable that the technology was spread to Dominaria this way. Especially because Feral Abomination refers to Urborg and the cabal, which have made the Stronghold their seat of power.
I've been thinking, and there is a possible way to go back to Sarpadia, and actually bring back some of the flavour, but its got a lot of stretches.
So, we know Phyrexia hit Sarpadia during the invasion, and that the Thrulls, being the dominant species, were the primary resistance and gave a pretty good fight. That's our starting point, Creative could say that Phyrexia did severe damage to Thrull numbers and reduced them to a fraction of their power. We also know the Thallids survived and the Homarids, being in the sea, were spared by the Thrulls (Homarids can also go on land, importantly). So, maybe after letting the Thrulls do all the work, the Thallids and Homarids fill the vacuum, and ally against the Thrulls to keep their numbers in check, with Homarids gaining beach heads on dry land. Fast forward to the ruin of Otaria, and now there are a bunch of dwarves without a home and legends of a lost Dwarven empire in Sarpadia. They arrive, and the mountains are unoccupied, the Thrulls having killed the orcs and goblins before being killed by the phyrexians, and they settle there, and ally with the Thallids and Homarids who welcome help against the Thrulls. Flash forward again, and we see actual Icatians being transported to the Timespiral age via time rifts. Lets just say a bunch came through and refounded Icatia, allying with all non Thrull races. Together, they keep the Thrulls in check while building new empires of their own.
That's a LOT of stretches, but dammit if I don't want to see something like it now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Personally I think it would be okay to make Thrulls less dominant on Sarpadia. As thrulls are magical creatures (and not biological) it makes sense that the temporal crisis might have hit them harder than, say, thallids and other races. They might still be quite a force to be reckoned with, but not as oppressive as they once were.
Truth be told though, I don't really see creative focusing on individual continents like that anymore though. (Ixalan may have been the exception to this rule, precisely because the trope they wanted to play was the colonization of a "new" continent, which would get muddied up a bit if you showed the whole world.)
The continent only got a few nods in Dominaria (2018), probably because there simply wasn't enough space in the set, but possibly also because of what I'd call the "thrull problem". It's something that you have to deal with when considering a "Return to Sarpadia" of sorts, or planning to (re-)incorporate Sarpadia into Dominaria story-wise to make is less obscure and isolated.
Simply put: The thrulls are too overpowered and too dominant. In an old interview article with Pete Venters, he even said that the only thing preventing the thrulls from overrunning the whole of Dominaria was their lack of imagination (to think there was anything beyond Sarpadia's horizons). I think this is what currently prevents Sarpadia from appearing prominently in the story, because as long as you let the thrulls keep their old power level, having them interact with anyone from outside of their continent would eventually lead to a new invasion event of almost phyrexian proportions. So I think if the continent ever appeared in newer Magic lore again, the thrulls would have to be nerfed significantly in order to allow for a greater diversity of fantasy races, types of magic and interesting conflicts. You could have humans, elves and other species trying to re-settle etc.
I'm interested in everyone's take on this. How would or should a revisit to Sarpadia look like?
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Sadly for me, I figure those themes are more likely to be explored elsewhere in the official game. Dominaria has covered most of the themes of heritage and history that I thought Sarpadia could be about (and I'm not complaining, it's awesome!), and a story about recovering from ecological collapse can probably be more fruitfully told in a return to Zendikar or Amonkhet.
Nothing says that's a Sarpadian Thrull, Endrek Sahr got Timespiraled to Mending era Dominaria and could have taught the cabal how to make thrulls, and they kept a better lid on it, or they figured it out themselves.
Side note, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Phyrexians did invade Sarpadia during the Invasion, and that the thrulls there gave them stiff resistence. If true, creative can use this as a springboard to say that the Invasion and eventual Rift crisis and other Dominarian catastrophes greatly reduced the thrulls in number and ended their ability to threaten the plane. Of course, the real issue with a return to Sarpadia is that it just won't be Sarpadia. The Fallen Empires have long fallen and only the Vodalians remain with any memory of it. Them and the Thrulls and Thallids. The Dwarves, goblins, Ebon Hand, Icatia, orcs, and elves are all long dead. You'd really have to lean hard on Thallids, thrulls, and Homarids to connect to the original set. There aren't even any mechanical connections because its big things were tribal, of which those three remain, and spore counters, which Thallids cover.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
To be fair, the tempest version of Blood Pet shows that the evincars or other residents of Rath could create thrulls (granted, they likely had the technology from phyrexia but still) Due to the overlay it's not unthinkable that the technology was spread to Dominaria this way. Especially because Feral Abomination refers to Urborg and the cabal, which have made the Stronghold their seat of power.
So, we know Phyrexia hit Sarpadia during the invasion, and that the Thrulls, being the dominant species, were the primary resistance and gave a pretty good fight. That's our starting point, Creative could say that Phyrexia did severe damage to Thrull numbers and reduced them to a fraction of their power. We also know the Thallids survived and the Homarids, being in the sea, were spared by the Thrulls (Homarids can also go on land, importantly). So, maybe after letting the Thrulls do all the work, the Thallids and Homarids fill the vacuum, and ally against the Thrulls to keep their numbers in check, with Homarids gaining beach heads on dry land. Fast forward to the ruin of Otaria, and now there are a bunch of dwarves without a home and legends of a lost Dwarven empire in Sarpadia. They arrive, and the mountains are unoccupied, the Thrulls having killed the orcs and goblins before being killed by the phyrexians, and they settle there, and ally with the Thallids and Homarids who welcome help against the Thrulls. Flash forward again, and we see actual Icatians being transported to the Timespiral age via time rifts. Lets just say a bunch came through and refounded Icatia, allying with all non Thrull races. Together, they keep the Thrulls in check while building new empires of their own.
That's a LOT of stretches, but dammit if I don't want to see something like it now.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Truth be told though, I don't really see creative focusing on individual continents like that anymore though. (Ixalan may have been the exception to this rule, precisely because the trope they wanted to play was the colonization of a "new" continent, which would get muddied up a bit if you showed the whole world.)