I'm MEGAS BIAS about anything Church of Serra related... so I enjoyed this story immensely. Goodness, what a week it has been... just yesterday we had a barrage of Church of Serra related cards~! (I legit felt like I'm having palpitations scouring the updates ...)
I never thought we'd explore as much about Tiana and Arvad since the Neo Weatherlight crew has to contend with the story path of Liliana...
- Lyra being a Serra's Realm OG Angel? Interesting...
- Serra "healing" Benalia? I dunno if ita just a romantization of her death or this is the new canon... but I don't mind this being a sort of Lord Windgrace thing.
- Church of Serra angels being "born" in the Cathedral of Serra perked my curiosity... since it is where Serra "died", I wondered if her death made a Bant-like effect around the Church site (since you know, she basically gave the land there her mana). Kelly Digges said that the art book has some answers about this while a flavour text writer responded to me that Serra's "death" protected the church site during The Invasion...
- I am glad that more has been explored about Tiana and Arvad. Although Tiana's origins might be somewhat funny in a way... it works for me in its religious tinge. Arvad I find interesting, a Sengir sired Vampire being kept in check via the Serra's Realm powered Powerstone of Weatherlight. Ooooh... feels like Homelands a bit.
- I wonder who's getting the MTG Story focus next week, I thought we'll jump around Liliana's Mission and the Neo Weatherlight Crew quite actively...
Damn was today's story good. Solid beginning to end. I love the sense of purpose and adventure it gives. Feels like a true fantasy story, and not all the desiccated war trash we've had. Kinda like how we all loved Jace and Vraska. There's a time and a place for conflict, which should be exciting, not exhausting and cumbersome. I actually felt some anxiety and concern for the characters when the Phoenix appeared. This is a sign that I'm at least invested in these people and their mission. I like where this arc is going. Arvad and Tiana's fates are really something I'm interested to see pan out.
EDIT: And I agree these non-PW stories are superior. I'm sick to death of Planeswalkers.
I think it's worth reminding that Jace and Vraska were both planeswalkers. Planeswalkers can be written well, as that particular Ixalan subplot proved IMO. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "there's a time and a place for conflict". Conflict (in-universe) often isn't something that's scheduled by all participants. It just happens, whether those involved want it to or not. If you mean that depicting conflict/war should be tempered with more light-hearted content to prevent reader fatigue, then I agree with that. That was a reason for Ixalan block being the way it was after the ongoing tragedy that was Amonkhet block, IIRC.
That said, I liked this story. Tiana and Arvad are both interesting and I have high hopes for them. Tiana possibly being the reincarnation of Hanna (or maybe even the original Weatherlight, as ryuplaneswalker speculated) is intriguing, but the source of her artifice talent might be something we don't expect.
So, Tiana possibly being a reincarnated Hanna seems like a strong possibility, but what do people make of Arvad being drawn to the Weatherlight from far away? A lie to set up some treason? Or, if he speaks truth (which Tiana seems to believe), what if he is also a reincarnation... and if so, who? Gerrard?
I hope this whole reincarnation theory turns out to be false, the OG weatherlight crew was amazing (Mirri was always my favorite) buuuuuuuuut, they're dead and gone and they should stay that way.
As for people who don't like the fact that they're focusing too much on non-walker... i kinda' agree, Mirri, Teysa, Anafenza and Avacyn are 4 of my favorite characters in MTG, and they're not walkers (woudn't mind Teysa being though) and i love reading their stories. But the fact is, let's use the new Weatherlight crew as an example, they're being developed which is amazing, specially giving the fact that they're the "protagonists" of Dominaria. But once Dominaria is done it's going to take another decade for us to see them again, on the other hand planeswalkers can show up anywhere, even if they have nothing to do with the place they're in, so it makes sense that people want to learn more about walkers then non-walkers, simply because it wont take a decade for them to see their favorite walker again.
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BWG
Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
The weatherlight can go to different planes, or at least it used to have that ability. I’m not so sure that we won’t see the Weatherlight crew in the next set.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I hope this whole reincarnation theory turns out to be false, the OG weatherlight crew was amazing (Mirri was always my favorite) buuuuuuuuut, they're dead and gone and they should stay that way.
I felt that way about the Weatherlight (ship gave her all, and herself since she became somewhat sentient, accomplished the mission, saved the world, sunk into the sea), but here we are.
I have a question. Karn says in Planar Chaos that the Weatherlight's ability to planeswalk was contained within him, so even if he lost his spark closing the rift, he'd be able to planeswalk. At first I thought maybe Wizards was gearing up to have the new Weatherlight crew forged into heroes in Dominaria, and then able to traverse planes to negate the power of the Immortal Sun, but if the Weatherlight can no longer planeswalk because that ability is still in Karn, then this is not a possibility, correct?
And another question about the Weatherlight. My recollection is that either 1) The Serra-charged powerstone was spent in the dive from the Null Moon (when sentient Weatherlight died), or 2) The Serra-charged powerstone was combined with all the other parts of the Legacy in Karn and all were combined into Planeswalker Karn, who retained 'legions of souls.' This recollection is giving me a hard time in understanding the how and why the Weatherlight's dead powerstone was recharged by one angel, when from what I see it took a plane to charge it before and it was either spent or absorbed by Karn.
Is there a chance it will be explained, or are the odds better that they just plow onward with the story without a good explanation?
I assume it takes far less energy to just fly at several hundred miles per hour then it does to shift between Planes. Although I was also under the assumption that Karn absorbed all the critical components into himself so there should be no core.
Interesting so are they retconning how Serra Died? Beyond that seems she created an enchantment that creates Angels from Prayers. Angels come naked and pre built with memories and knowledge and apparently have night vision and drive to protect/do good. I am curious about the title Dawnbringer though, is it the title of the top Angel? The Title for Angels on a high council. A title for all Angels who are still living who were created in Serra's Realm?
Also did anyone think Arvad being attracted to the core sounds remarkably like a Bolas Plot. He has done that to people before and so has Ugin incidentally.
I really liked this as I have been calling for more depth for non walker supporting characters and this chapter didn't feel especially rushed. It also gave us a better view of the timeline although why Jhoira isn't simply using the Ambulator to teleport, I don't understand at all. However, I have to ask if this is the story where we should be focusing on supporting character. We are a third of the way to the story and Teferi, Karn, Jaya, Jodah and Belzenlok are all no shows so far with Bolas waiting in the wings. Can this story afford to advance the plot to a non rushed conclusion while dolling out appropriate story focus to explain what all the above have been doing for 60 or so years?
Also did anyone think Arvad being attracted to the core sounds remarkably like a Bolas Plot. He has done that to people before and so has Ugin incidentally.
Bolas has become the Illuminati of the MTG Multiverse.
I've even seen one person on Reddit speculate that it's Bolas that crammed the artifice knowledge into Tiana's head.
Also did anyone think Arvad being attracted to the core sounds remarkably like a Bolas Plot. He has done that to people before and so has Ugin incidentally.
Bolas has become the Illuminati of the MTG Multiverse.
I've even seen one person on Reddit speculate that it's Bolas that crammed the artifice knowledge into Tiana's head.
Well we know he is showing up and WOTC has put Bolas behind every plot since the Eldrazi Release. We are conditioned this way.
Tiana's birth is interesting but that would require him to manipulate an Oldwalker Enchantment from Range. I don't think he showed up directly and mind controlled everyone into forgetting. So Arvad seems more likely...I would also say Crovax and Arvad are not similiar. Crovax fell after way more tragedy then Arvad seems to have undergone and Gerrard almost did much the same.
So, Tiana possibly being a reincarnated Hanna seems like a strong possibility, but what do people make of Arvad being drawn to the Weatherlight from far away? A lie to set up some treason? Or, if he speaks truth (which Tiana seems to believe), what if he is also a reincarnation... and if so, who? Gerrard?
If Arvad is really a reincarnation of someone, I would bet on Crovax
I turned a brow up about Serra but I don't think they're retconning her death. I don't think anyone knows how she died, just that she did, and presumed the purpose. We happen to know how.
Well we know he is showing up and WOTC has put Bolas behind every plot since the Eldrazi Release.
Technically it was since Alara, which was just before that.
He wasnt involved at all in Innistrad, Return to Ravnica or Theros and wasn't behind New Phyrexia or SoI conflicts directly.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well we know he is showing up and WOTC has put Bolas behind every plot since the Eldrazi Release.
Technically it was since Alara, which was just before that.
He wasnt involved at all in Innistrad, Return to Ravnica or Theros and wasn't behind New Phyrexia or SoI conflicts directly.
Well Ral Zarek was on the old payroll, we don't know when though.
New Phyrexia, he did send Tezz to stall the Praetors that didn't work out to well.
SoI, he is indirectly connected by tricking the Gatewatch into letting the Titans out.
Well we know he is showing up and WOTC has put Bolas behind every plot since the Eldrazi Release.
Technically it was since Alara, which was just before that.
He wasnt involved at all in Innistrad, Return to Ravnica or Theros and wasn't behind New Phyrexia or SoI conflicts directly.
Well Ral Zarek was on the old payroll, we don't know when though.
Or how willing Ral is and if it wasn't the maze the guides would have go to war sooner or later.
New Phyrexia, he did send Tezz to stall the Praetors that didn't work out to well.
I thought it was to spy on them? Which is why people are now thinking he was hoping Tezzeret would find a planar portal.
SoI, he is indirectly connected by tricking the Gatewatch into letting the Titans out.
Well yeah I said that, he let pout the eldrazi but it was Nahiri who lead Emrakul to Innnistrad.
Theros though yeah can't blame that one him.
And Innistrad 1, that conflict was between the people of Innistrad and the growing darkness.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well we know he is showing up and WOTC has put Bolas behind every plot since the Eldrazi Release.
Technically it was since Alara, which was just before that.
He wasnt involved at all in Innistrad, Return to Ravnica or Theros and wasn't behind New Phyrexia or SoI conflicts directly.
It's probably too soon to say he had no claw in Ravnica's affairs back then, but you're right about Theros and Innistrad.
Also, if we're being fair, he didn't orchestrate what happened to Tarkir after he "killed" Ugin. The Khans/Dragons dominance was just a side effect of his plan to deal with Ugin.
Does Bolas even know about Theros? Beyond it being Gideon's home world I mean, assuming he knows that. I hope not. I don't want to see any of the major villains on Theros. The plane and its story arcs have enough going on without the need for cataclysm.
Does Bolas even know about Theros? Beyond it being Gideon's home world I mean, assuming he knows that. I hope not. I don't want to see any of the major villains on Theros. The plane and its story arcs have enough going on without the need for cataclysm.
I assume Bolas has it on his list...he really likes screwing Gods over so I am sure he is salivating on the thought but he is pretty mission focused right now. Maybe he will try to recruit Elsepth (now BW) to join his squad of Tezz (UB) and Ral Zarek (UR)
Does Bolas even know about Theros? Beyond it being Gideon's home world I mean, assuming he knows that. I hope not. I don't want to see any of the major villains on Theros. The plane and its story arcs have enough going on without the need for cataclysm.
I assume Bolas has it on his list...he really likes screwing Gods over so I am sure he is salivating on the thought but he is pretty mission focused right now. Maybe he will try to recruit Elsepth (now BW) to join his squad of Tezz (UB) and Ral Zarek (UR)
I don't think he likes screwing over gods necessarily. Amonkhet happened to be useful to him at a critical time, and presumably a dying plane anyway.
Perhaps Serra’s death isn’t a retcon but her church made up beautiful tales about her importance, up it by a few levels.
Wouldn't that mean that both sides of the spectrum (the Belzenlok-led Cabal and the Church of Serra) aren't above making **** up?
Without getting too inflammatory IRL.....it's a church right? Every single faith needs a mythos of some kind, whether its based on factual accounts or allegory.
Perhaps Serra’s death isn’t a retcon but her church made up beautiful tales about her importance, up it by a few levels.
Wouldn't that mean that both sides of the spectrum (the Belzenlok-led Cabal and the Church of Serra) aren't above making **** up?
Without getting too inflammatory IRL.....it's a church right? Every single faith needs a mythos of some kind, whether its based on factual accounts or allegory.
I know that, but I was more pointing to the idea that despite their significant differences, the two parties do have something in common.
Perhaps Serra’s death isn’t a retcon but her church made up beautiful tales about her importance, up it by a few levels.
Wouldn't that mean that both sides of the spectrum (the Belzenlok-led Cabal and the Church of Serra) aren't above making **** up?
Without getting too inflammatory IRL.....it's a church right? Every single faith needs a mythos of some kind, whether its based on factual accounts or allegory.
I know that, but I was more pointing to the idea that despite their significant differences, the two parties do have something in common.
You're not wrong. I guess it's an 'ends justify the means' thing - and at a guess I'd say the Cabal has nefarious ends in mind.
I never thought we'd explore as much about Tiana and Arvad since the Neo Weatherlight crew has to contend with the story path of Liliana...
- Lyra being a Serra's Realm OG Angel? Interesting...
- Serra "healing" Benalia? I dunno if ita just a romantization of her death or this is the new canon... but I don't mind this being a sort of Lord Windgrace thing.
- Church of Serra angels being "born" in the Cathedral of Serra perked my curiosity... since it is where Serra "died", I wondered if her death made a Bant-like effect around the Church site (since you know, she basically gave the land there her mana). Kelly Digges said that the art book has some answers about this while a flavour text writer responded to me that Serra's "death" protected the church site during The Invasion...
- I am glad that more has been explored about Tiana and Arvad. Although Tiana's origins might be somewhat funny in a way... it works for me in its religious tinge. Arvad I find interesting, a Sengir sired Vampire being kept in check via the Serra's Realm powered Powerstone of Weatherlight. Ooooh... feels like Homelands a bit.
- I wonder who's getting the MTG Story focus next week, I thought we'll jump around Liliana's Mission and the Neo Weatherlight Crew quite actively...
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
And that ain't even a joke.
btw I was indeed referring to that fatigue
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
As for people who don't like the fact that they're focusing too much on non-walker... i kinda' agree, Mirri, Teysa, Anafenza and Avacyn are 4 of my favorite characters in MTG, and they're not walkers (woudn't mind Teysa being though) and i love reading their stories. But the fact is, let's use the new Weatherlight crew as an example, they're being developed which is amazing, specially giving the fact that they're the "protagonists" of Dominaria. But once Dominaria is done it's going to take another decade for us to see them again, on the other hand planeswalkers can show up anywhere, even if they have nothing to do with the place they're in, so it makes sense that people want to learn more about walkers then non-walkers, simply because it wont take a decade for them to see their favorite walker again.
Art student, EDH lover and a strong believer that Delver has the best design in all of MTG.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I felt that way about the Weatherlight (ship gave her all, and herself since she became somewhat sentient, accomplished the mission, saved the world, sunk into the sea), but here we are.
I have a question. Karn says in Planar Chaos that the Weatherlight's ability to planeswalk was contained within him, so even if he lost his spark closing the rift, he'd be able to planeswalk. At first I thought maybe Wizards was gearing up to have the new Weatherlight crew forged into heroes in Dominaria, and then able to traverse planes to negate the power of the Immortal Sun, but if the Weatherlight can no longer planeswalk because that ability is still in Karn, then this is not a possibility, correct?
And another question about the Weatherlight. My recollection is that either 1) The Serra-charged powerstone was spent in the dive from the Null Moon (when sentient Weatherlight died), or 2) The Serra-charged powerstone was combined with all the other parts of the Legacy in Karn and all were combined into Planeswalker Karn, who retained 'legions of souls.' This recollection is giving me a hard time in understanding the how and why the Weatherlight's dead powerstone was recharged by one angel, when from what I see it took a plane to charge it before and it was either spent or absorbed by Karn.
Is there a chance it will be explained, or are the odds better that they just plow onward with the story without a good explanation?
Interesting so are they retconning how Serra Died? Beyond that seems she created an enchantment that creates Angels from Prayers. Angels come naked and pre built with memories and knowledge and apparently have night vision and drive to protect/do good. I am curious about the title Dawnbringer though, is it the title of the top Angel? The Title for Angels on a high council. A title for all Angels who are still living who were created in Serra's Realm?
Also did anyone think Arvad being attracted to the core sounds remarkably like a Bolas Plot. He has done that to people before and so has Ugin incidentally.
I really liked this as I have been calling for more depth for non walker supporting characters and this chapter didn't feel especially rushed. It also gave us a better view of the timeline although why Jhoira isn't simply using the Ambulator to teleport, I don't understand at all. However, I have to ask if this is the story where we should be focusing on supporting character. We are a third of the way to the story and Teferi, Karn, Jaya, Jodah and Belzenlok are all no shows so far with Bolas waiting in the wings. Can this story afford to advance the plot to a non rushed conclusion while dolling out appropriate story focus to explain what all the above have been doing for 60 or so years?
Bolas has become the Illuminati of the MTG Multiverse.
I've even seen one person on Reddit speculate that it's Bolas that crammed the artifice knowledge into Tiana's head.
Well we know he is showing up and WOTC has put Bolas behind every plot since the Eldrazi Release. We are conditioned this way.
Tiana's birth is interesting but that would require him to manipulate an Oldwalker Enchantment from Range. I don't think he showed up directly and mind controlled everyone into forgetting. So Arvad seems more likely...I would also say Crovax and Arvad are not similiar. Crovax fell after way more tragedy then Arvad seems to have undergone and Gerrard almost did much the same.
Technically it was since Alara, which was just before that.
True enough my point was more you didn't really need Bolas to be behind the Eldrazi One.
If Arvad is really a reincarnation of someone, I would bet on Crovax
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
He wasnt involved at all in Innistrad, Return to Ravnica or Theros and wasn't behind New Phyrexia or SoI conflicts directly.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Well Ral Zarek was on the old payroll, we don't know when though.
New Phyrexia, he did send Tezz to stall the Praetors that didn't work out to well.
SoI, he is indirectly connected by tricking the Gatewatch into letting the Titans out.
Theros though yeah can't blame that one him.
Or how willing Ral is and if it wasn't the maze the guides would have go to war sooner or later.
I thought it was to spy on them? Which is why people are now thinking he was hoping Tezzeret would find a planar portal.
Well yeah I said that, he let pout the eldrazi but it was Nahiri who lead Emrakul to Innnistrad.
And Innistrad 1, that conflict was between the people of Innistrad and the growing darkness.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It's probably too soon to say he had no claw in Ravnica's affairs back then, but you're right about Theros and Innistrad.
Also, if we're being fair, he didn't orchestrate what happened to Tarkir after he "killed" Ugin. The Khans/Dragons dominance was just a side effect of his plan to deal with Ugin.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I assume Bolas has it on his list...he really likes screwing Gods over so I am sure he is salivating on the thought but he is pretty mission focused right now. Maybe he will try to recruit Elsepth (now BW) to join his squad of Tezz (UB) and Ral Zarek (UR)
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Wouldn't that mean that both sides of the spectrum (the Belzenlok-led Cabal and the Church of Serra) aren't above making **** up?
Without getting too inflammatory IRL.....it's a church right? Every single faith needs a mythos of some kind, whether its based on factual accounts or allegory.
I know that, but I was more pointing to the idea that despite their significant differences, the two parties do have something in common.
You're not wrong. I guess it's an 'ends justify the means' thing - and at a guess I'd say the Cabal has nefarious ends in mind.