Seems like that considering what we have seen so far...10 years for this. I wonder if he will even cast a single spell that is not time related in this story arc. I mean they do remember he can cast more then time spells right? Before posters said it was because he wasn't resparked but he is resparked now, off page I might add.
Off base? No you are on base. We know what is going to happen to Lili, Bolas is "Assuming Direct Control". I don't especially feel bad for her though so it doesn't work on me. Because characters can be monsters in my book and still care about some people.
Yeah Belzenlok only seems to have gotten so far because no one bothered to stop him until this point. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for most of our heroes. Teferi had a kid to raise and was searching for a way to get Zhalfir back. Karn was off plane, cleaning up Oil Spills and trying to take out Phyrexia. But again I am not seeing any reason why Jodah did zilch. And Jhoira took this long to deal with it.
I just like that Liliana "cares* for someone other then herself and her "feeling" for Jace.
Something I remember from their fight with bolas...Lilaian talks about how she likes the dead since they can't be disappointed in her or hurt if she betrays them. Next week is gonna be hard on her.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
we have to accept what is given. I thought 12 episodes will be enough, but apparently Martha Wells decided to emphasize wholly different parts than I expected.
The shallowness and inability to dig into the most detailed Magic setting (incl. magical laws, physics etc...) could be expected, but Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Well, I must remind myself it could have been far worse. Wyatt or Beyer could have written this. And also that Dominaria is a gem that nobody expected to ever see. I am trying to be grateful
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Yeah basically that is the issue right Lili and Gids focus doesn't mesh well cause while Lili is from Dominaria. She knows nothing about and has no connection to the major players in Dominarian History who have about 60 years of backstory that needs to be filled in and explained. I have to agree the focus is really misplaced but again they made this story harder then had to be by spending all the time assembling a team. And I stand by my statement the Weatherlight Saga worked because they were the main characters, its rather pointless if they are supporting characters to the Planeswalkers and Legendary Heroes.
The story doesn't explain anything and the reason for character behavior prior to the story don't work logically with how they are acting now or how they acted in the past (previous stories).
Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Why would any of that be relevant when we can have a story about mushrooms. Which is exactly what Creative was on when it decided that.
Shrooms? But yeah either don't spend so much time getting the crew together or cut most of these characters starting with the NuWeatherlight Crew. No explanations and limited backstory explaining motivations.
Like for instance Teferi wants to help stop Bolas cause he has a daughter and might have grandkids..etc? What I am not seeing how that provides extra motivation to stop Bolas, he is a Blue character right that has met Bolas before that should be pretty sufficient reason to want to stop Bolas. Much like there is no logical reason for Teferi not to want his spark back or Jhoira to think he wouldn't want it back. I cannot think of single reason why being resparked would note be net positive in getting Zhalfir Back or protecting his family. Or for Karn to not tell Jhoira Venser died. And so on and so forth. I say only Jaya has a good motivation for faking as Mother Luti.
Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Why would any of that be relevant when we can have a story about mushrooms. Which is exactly what Creative was on when it decided that.
I mean, I’ve seen a lot of positive reaction to Slimefoot so it seems like they were a hit.
Yeah so was Yargle doesn't mean they should be eating valuable screen time. I say its the card design that is making most of these characters hits, the story is providing little.
In story Teferi is struggling to stop sand waves and failing puzzles. In Game, he has brought UWx Control Decks out of the Wilderness and to the Promised Lands. Mostly in Standard and Modern but I even read he helped win a 300+ Vintage Tournament.
In story, Karn has grabbed one artifact and cried about Venser. In game, he is popping up across formats with strong performances from Vintage to Standard.
Yeah so was Yargle doesn't mean they should be eating valuable screen time. I say its the card design that is making most of these characters hits, the story is providing little.
In story Teferi is struggling to stop sand waves and failing puzzles. In Game, he has brought UWx Control Decks out of the Wilderness and to the Promised Lands. Mostly in Standard and Modern but I even read he helped win a 300+ Vintage Tournament.
In story, Karn has grabbed one artifact and cried about Venser. In game, he is popping up across formats with strong performances from Vintage to Standard.
To back Teferi up, he's wrecking in my Zedruu deck. Almost exactly what the deck needs, and the ultimate is devastating.
Still, I try not to draw parallels between stories and cards,they're clearly not equivalent.
I am saying the cards have delivered on the hype and prominent placement on advertising, packs, and cinematic trailers especially for Teferi and Karn. Jhoira delivers mostly in EDH. But story wise Teferi has been good personality wise but motivation wise and power wise its been a real letdown. Cannot solve a puzzle, cannot stop wave a sand and is now has forgotten how to cast anything that is not a time spell...SMFH. Karn much the same but at least power wise he hasn't been in position to serve up embarrassment, yet.
Well, based on what's left I'd say you'll probably end up being disappointed by Karn, too. I dunno, I see your point, but I do think to some extent you may have set yourself up for disappointment (no offense meant, it's hard to manage expectations - look at Masters 25 :p). Still, the reassuring thing is that Teferi at least is confirmed to be in for further sets. Karn possibly, too - time will tell.
I get it, though - Teferi has long been my favourite legend of lore. Mirage was released very soon before I started playing, so he was my first glimpse at planeswalkers, and he reminds me of some of my favourite sorcerers from books - he even holds a pivotal flavour role in one of my vorthos builds.
Just saying doesn't feel Teferi and to a lesser extent Karn (jury is still out) are getting the same respect as other Oldwalkers post Mending. Nahiri got the feat of summoning Emrakul through leyline manipulation, rekting armies of vampires and trapping Sorin in stone after a duel. Ob Nixilis mostly got to beat up the Gatewatch and got his own spark back but heck he is not even primary spellcaster and he still busted out a more versatile spell list then Teferi. Teferi, has a daughter...cannot solve a puzzle, cannot get his own spark back, cannot cast anything that is not a time spell anymore inexplicably, and a fails at stopping sand waves. That is really nothing for me to celebrate story wise. Oh and of course he resparks off page. Cause apparently will they wont they relationship drama between Gids and Lili is simply more vital then Teferi resparking.
Add that refusal to answer any of the critical questions. Why does Jhoira having his spark? Mana Rig. Well that explains nothing. Why does Jhoira think he wouldn't want his spark back? Again no real reason given it mostly seems to not make Jhoira look like the worst friend ever for planning to use it restart the Weatherlight, a Weatherlight I should note that is no better then any vehicle on Kaladesh cause it cannot planeshift anymore.
I am saddened that Dominaria, the OG of Magic is kinda getting shafted. Story wise, some wasted space with a bunch of filler. The last chapter seems like its going to be anticlimatc and a letdown. Bezlenok will go down easy (and if not then where was his build up). We have a lot of interesting characters who could have articles in the midterms of things instead of taking up story space and unless Weatherlight gets planesshifting back will be basically forgotten about. I mean we get these character setups and at the end of this story.......then what. They cant go help with Bolas and will be lost for over a year thanks to RTRTRTR Block coming up (while the OG only gets one set) nonetheless the flood of products (commander planeswalkers, (better than masters)Battlebond nd more Masters sets we will get during that time as well. Me and alot of my friends who started this game 20-25 years ago almost were EXTREMELY excited to finally go back and now just feel used or manipulated by being nostalgic exploited only to have the rug pulled out just as fast. I saw 12 episodes going to be in story and thought man this is going to be good only to get lots of descriptive traveling stories that in reality hasnt progressed much and could have been covered in half as many stories and worse they didnt seem to cover any of the good stuff that seemed to be logically coming. Just bummed.
Next episode: Waste of time with Gids fighting in pit. Somebody kills Yargle. Belzenlock goes down like a sack of potatoes and Lily gets in Bolas Clutches and we're off to Ravnica........meh
The anniversary stuff just didnt live up....see A25 (Masters 25) as well
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
Eh we got some good cards out of Dominaria. Teferi and Karn putting in the work across formats.
But yeah storyline wise this was disappointing. About the only positive thing I can say is the characterization is pretty good for the old guard...the motivations, story beats and power level not so much. And the New Weatherlight crew is a waste of time.
Definately got some good and fun cards out of the actual set, even a couple staples. Especially as casuals it was great and fun to crack packs, just kinda sucks to think DOMINARIA may just be an afterthought, Set and Story wise pretty soon.. (besides Karn and Teferi, who may very well be pushed out of the meta depending on the new Rav sets (though they are powerful)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
I guess although I don't think there is an obvious choice for UW or Colorless if Teferi and Karn don't get cards in Ravnica. Azor comes back? Teferi should get one since he is on the Gatewatch now. Karn will probably warm the bench or pop in for a last second assist. If Karn goes to Phyrexia alone or with just Jaya, I think it ends poorly for them.
But yeah I am sure WOTC will toss another pushed Jace at us ... they cannot help themselves. Jace, Savior of Ravnica? Jace, Dragon Slayer?
Granted I will reiterate despite what Wells said before this story...I still haven't seen anything to suggest she really loves Teferi as a character as she claimed beforehand. I don't agree with the wife or kid, I don't agree with the power/intelligence nerfs displayed but mostly I certainly don't agree with how getting his spark has been handled on any level. From the non explanation from Jhoira on how she got, to when she got it, to her inexplicably thinking Teferi wouldn't want it back (directly contradicting Time Spiral) and finally not showing the resparking on page at all. That last part is especially unforgivable in my book.
I am fine with WOTC's "diversity push" but that doesn't mean I am for poor execution on that front. Especially not when the marketing campaign has said diversity front at center for the set.
At least Slimefoot is related to the new Weatherlight, which while still planar-bound for now, still has the potential in the future to planeshift (if they can somehow wrestle the portal core out of Tezz when that fight with Bolas starts...) Yargle was a lieutenant of the demon who's going to get his smite in a few paragraphs' worth at best next week and honestly should have remained a one-card meme of sorts.
On one hand I appreciate they're at least doing the "infiltrate the place" part of the story (quite the disbelief if they magically just faced Belzenlok straightaway), but on the other hand, Belzenlok's definitely getting the short end himself. But then again, we already didn't have the space left to begin with, so it was just a making a bad choice over a worse one...
We're definitely getting a Jace card in Ravnica, that's 3 sets (and 9 potential open spaces). If Blackblade's flavor is any indication, Gideon would probably be doing the actual slaying - the sheer amount of management if the Guilds really split apart because of Bolas is probably enough to keep Jace distracted that I'm not even sure of Jace gets to see the Elder Dragon himself (Vraska is a definite though). I would actually appreciate if Jace was really kept busy of the guilds and didn't participate in the actual direct showdown with the Elder Dragon - he'll simultaneously be behind-the-scenes but also on-the-scene because he's background manager instead. It's not like Bolas has a particular grudge against Jace to begin with anyway (Ajani would probably beat Jace to that queue).
Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Why would any of that be relevant when we can have a story about mushrooms. Which is exactly what Creative was on when it decided that.
There is no point in being salty.
A year ago, we would never expect to even SEE Dominaria and its characters again. Now, we got an outright great set stuffed to the roof with awesome references. Jodah card, Jaya PW card, awesome new cards for Teferi, Jhoira. Weatherlight vehicle card. Updated Dominaria map. Tell me, how many of this you would thought possible at the beginning on 2017?
When I see reactions like this, I see a kid who was given something they passionately wished for for years, and now they are whining because it is not exactly the color they wanted.
The guys who worked on Dominaria delivered a masterpiece. I do not want to speculate, but the fact that the two main "fathers" of Dominaria creatively, Mark Winters and Kelly Digges left Wizards after this set, is kinda strange. Almost like Dominaria was not widely supported to be made, and they were told - okay, go ahead and do it, but it will be the last thing you do for Wizards.
Let's face it - the nonplaneswalking Dominaria characters are globally not so important any more. In that regard, I wish Teferi's reascension was worked on in more detail, and Karn's character as well. Because these ones matter.
On the other hand, and at the same time, they wanted in the same time to establish a new roster of characters to return to when the time comes. That's why there is the emphasis on Arvad, Tiana or Slimefoot. I see the logic.
Yes, the narration is strangely paced. Seeing Belzenlok just for one story. But on the other hand again, we are going with a party of heroes to face the big bad, seeing the story by their own eyes. And Liliana's demons do not have very big screen lifetime - the only one who actually managed to appear in more than one xtory was Razaketh, and then again,just one speaking story before dying. Griselbrand was killed in one sentence, and Kothophed in one comic page. So again, nothing new here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Why would any of that be relevant when we can have a story about mushrooms. Which is exactly what Creative was on when it decided that.
There is no point in being salty.
A year ago, we would never expect to even SEE Dominaria and its characters again. Now, we got an outright great set stuffed to the roof with awesome references. Jodah card, Jaya PW card, awesome new cards for Teferi, Jhoira. Weatherlight vehicle card. Updated Dominaria map. Tell me, how many of this you would thought possible at the beginning on 2017?
When I see reactions like this, I see a kid who was given something they passionately wished for for years, and now they are whining because it is not exactly the color they wanted.
Your whole list there are the things people liked about Dominaria. Genuinely don't recall anyone complaining about the things on that list. Feels like a strawman to set up a whining kid reference, especially ironic since you go on to have some critiques of the story, same as many others in the forum.
And since this is a story forum, it's naive to think people won't criticize the story. It's literally the place to do it. Like walking into a grocery store and complaining that there's all this food. This forum is populated by people who care (often very deeply) about the story. So since this is a topic-specific thread in a topic-specific forum, saying 'everything but the story was great, stop whining, kids' in a story-specific thread and forum is just silly.
Anyway.
Quick question about Liliana and the Chain Veil. My initial impression years ago was that to pull off huge feats of magic, she would have to tap into the Veil. Now, it seems she can't do much without the Veil, and getting rid of the demon pacts will give her her power back again. Is this a change, and if so, when did that happen? I don't recall.
Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Why would any of that be relevant when we can have a story about mushrooms. Which is exactly what Creative was on when it decided that.
There is no point in being salty.
A year ago, we would never expect to even SEE Dominaria and its characters again. Now, we got an outright great set stuffed to the roof with awesome references. Jodah card, Jaya PW card, awesome new cards for Teferi, Jhoira. Weatherlight vehicle card. Updated Dominaria map. Tell me, how many of this you would thought possible at the beginning on 2017?
When I see reactions like this, I see a kid who was given something they passionately wished for for years, and now they are whining because it is not exactly the color they wanted.
Your whole list there are the things people liked about Dominaria. Genuinely don't recall anyone complaining about the things on that list. Feels like a strawman to set up a whining kid reference, especially ironic since you go on to have some critiques of the story, same as many others in the forum.
And since this is a story forum, it's naive to think people won't criticize the story. It's literally the place to do it. Like walking into a grocery store and complaining that there's all this food. This forum is populated by people who care (often very deeply) about the story. So since this is a topic-specific thread in a topic-specific forum, saying 'everything but the story was great, stop whining, kids' in a story-specific thread and forum is just silly.
Anyway.
Quick question about Liliana and the Chain Veil. My initial impression years ago was that to pull off huge feats of magic, she would have to tap into the Veil. Now, it seems she can't do much without the Veil, and getting rid of the demon pacts will give her her power back again. Is this a change, and if so, when did that happen? I don't recall.
Salty for agreeing with the critique about Teferi re-sparking off-screen.
And I'm not some kid being given what they want, for the record. While I admire past characters getting cards (so that I get the ones I want, which I haven't yet, this year) I actually don't care for Dominaria or any of its characters or even most of its cards. I have a pretty solid reputation for caring only about Jace, Theros and Kamigawa lore. I never read any of the old material, and the only thing I care to know about Dominaria is the Umezawa connection with the Myojin of Night's Reach and passing references to Marit Lage. So I fail to see how getting cards I didn't care to have dictates how critical I can be about the story.
Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Why would any of that be relevant when we can have a story about mushrooms. Which is exactly what Creative was on when it decided that.
There is no point in being salty.
A year ago, we would never expect to even SEE Dominaria and its characters again. Now, we got an outright great set stuffed to the roof with awesome references. Jodah card, Jaya PW card, awesome new cards for Teferi, Jhoira. Weatherlight vehicle card. Updated Dominaria map. Tell me, how many of this you would thought possible at the beginning on 2017?
When I see reactions like this, I see a kid who was given something they passionately wished for for years, and now they are whining because it is not exactly the color they wanted.
Your whole list there are the things people liked about Dominaria. Genuinely don't recall anyone complaining about the things on that list. Feels like a strawman to set up a whining kid reference, especially ironic since you go on to have some critiques of the story, same as many others in the forum.
And since this is a story forum, it's naive to think people won't criticize the story. It's literally the place to do it. Like walking into a grocery store and complaining that there's all this food. This forum is populated by people who care (often very deeply) about the story. So since this is a topic-specific thread in a topic-specific forum, saying 'everything but the story was great, stop whining, kids' in a story-specific thread and forum is just silly.
Anyway.
Quick question about Liliana and the Chain Veil. My initial impression years ago was that to pull off huge feats of magic, she would have to tap into the Veil. Now, it seems she can't do much without the Veil, and getting rid of the demon pacts will give her her power back again. Is this a change, and if so, when did that happen? I don't recall.
Salty for agreeing with the critique about Teferi re-sparking off-screen.
And I'm not some kid being given what they want, for the record. While I admire past characters getting cards (so that I get the ones I want, which I haven't yet, this year) I actually don't care for Dominaria or any of its characters or even most of its cards. I have a pretty solid reputation for caring only about Jace, Theros and Kamigawa lore. I never read any of the old material, and the only thing I care to know about Dominaria is the Umezawa connection with the Myojin of Night's Reach and passing references to Marit Lage. So I fail to see how getting cards I didn't care to have dictates how critical I can be about the story.
I have a less-solid reputation for caring mostly about Alara and its lore. I have some interest in most planes that the game has visited, including Dominaria, but Alara as a world just appeals to me a lot more. The only people currently in the story with ties to the plane have no discernible reason to go back there any time soon.
Why would any of that be relevant when we can have a story about mushrooms. Which is exactly what Creative was on when it decided that.
There is no point in being salty.
A year ago, we would never expect to even SEE Dominaria and its characters again. Now, we got an outright great set stuffed to the roof with awesome references. Jodah card, Jaya PW card, awesome new cards for Teferi, Jhoira. Weatherlight vehicle card. Updated Dominaria map. Tell me, how many of this you would thought possible at the beginning on 2017?
When I see reactions like this, I see a kid who was given something they passionately wished for for years, and now they are whining because it is not exactly the color they wanted.
Your whole list there are the things people liked about Dominaria. Genuinely don't recall anyone complaining about the things on that list. Feels like a strawman to set up a whining kid reference, especially ironic since you go on to have some critiques of the story, same as many others in the forum.
And since this is a story forum, it's naive to think people won't criticize the story. It's literally the place to do it. Like walking into a grocery store and complaining that there's all this food. This forum is populated by people who care (often very deeply) about the story. So since this is a topic-specific thread in a topic-specific forum, saying 'everything but the story was great, stop whining, kids' in a story-specific thread and forum is just silly.
Anyway.
Quick question about Liliana and the Chain Veil. My initial impression years ago was that to pull off huge feats of magic, she would have to tap into the Veil. Now, it seems she can't do much without the Veil, and getting rid of the demon pacts will give her her power back again. Is this a change, and if so, when did that happen? I don't recall.
Salty for agreeing with the critique about Teferi re-sparking off-screen.
And I'm not some kid being given what they want, for the record. While I admire past characters getting cards (so that I get the ones I want, which I haven't yet, this year) I actually don't care for Dominaria or any of its characters or even most of its cards. I have a pretty solid reputation for caring only about Jace, Theros and Kamigawa lore. I never read any of the old material, and the only thing I care to know about Dominaria is the Umezawa connection with the Myojin of Night's Reach and passing references to Marit Lage. So I fail to see how getting cards I didn't care to have dictates how critical I can be about the story.
I have a less-solid reputation for caring mostly about Alara and its lore. I have some interest in most planes that the game has visited, including Dominaria, but Alara as a world just appeals to me a lot more. The only people currently in the story with ties to the plane have no discernible reason to go back there any time soon.
I loved Esper on Alara. To a lesser extent Bant, but not the others. It was pretty cool. I'd like to know more about Silas Renn specifically, since most of the source material on him isn't canon. I imagine his blurb and perhaps some comics are, but that's a limited pool of information.
Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Why would any of that be relevant when we can have a story about mushrooms. Which is exactly what Creative was on when it decided that.
There is no point in being salty.
A year ago, we would never expect to even SEE Dominaria and its characters again. Now, we got an outright great set stuffed to the roof with awesome references. Jodah card, Jaya PW card, awesome new cards for Teferi, Jhoira. Weatherlight vehicle card. Updated Dominaria map. Tell me, how many of this you would thought possible at the beginning on 2017?
When I see reactions like this, I see a kid who was given something they passionately wished for for years, and now they are whining because it is not exactly the color they wanted.
Your whole list there are the things people liked about Dominaria. Genuinely don't recall anyone complaining about the things on that list. Feels like a strawman to set up a whining kid reference, especially ironic since you go on to have some critiques of the story, same as many others in the forum.
And since this is a story forum, it's naive to think people won't criticize the story. It's literally the place to do it. Like walking into a grocery store and complaining that there's all this food. This forum is populated by people who care (often very deeply) about the story. So since this is a topic-specific thread in a topic-specific forum, saying 'everything but the story was great, stop whining, kids' in a story-specific thread and forum is just silly.
Anyway.
1) Tell me, frankly: Do you agree that Tiro's comment was, in any way, a mature expression of criticism?
2) Read my post again. Firstly, I do not say "everything was great, stop whining, kids". Anywhere. I am saying that in the grand perspective, Dominaria is a Vorthos homerun. And that the story could have been done much worse.
Quick question about Liliana and the Chain Veil. My initial impression years ago was that to pull off huge feats of magic, she would have to tap into the Veil. Now, it seems she can't do much without the Veil, and getting rid of the demon pacts will give her her power back again. Is this a change, and if so, when did that happen? I don't recall.
This goes against what she achieved on Amonkhet. Killing Raz without using the Veil. But she did it intentionally, because she was afraid that another use of the Veil will be costly. Like taking another shot of drug knowing it will make you far worse in the end. Might be explained that by using it to Josu, it took so high toll that she is now weakened.
And I'm not some kid being given what they want, for the record. While I admire past characters getting cards (so that I get the ones I want, which I haven't yet, this year) I actually don't care for Dominaria or any of its characters or even most of its cards. I have a pretty solid reputation for caring only about Jace, Theros and Kamigawa lore. I never read any of the old material, and the only thing I care to know about Dominaria is the Umezawa connection with the Myojin of Night's Reach and passing references to Marit Lage. So I fail to see how getting cards I didn't care to have dictates how critical I can be about the story.
You forgot Innistrad....*Jenrik* If you do not care for Dominaria characters, I see no point in criticizing that Teferi ascended offscreen. Maybe you should read the old materials. Then you would be more able to see through my eyes and learn to appreciate things.
And I'm not some kid being given what they want, for the record. While I admire past characters getting cards (so that I get the ones I want, which I haven't yet, this year) I actually don't care for Dominaria or any of its characters or even most of its cards. I have a pretty solid reputation for caring only about Jace, Theros and Kamigawa lore. I never read any of the old material, and the only thing I care to know about Dominaria is the Umezawa connection with the Myojin of Night's Reach and passing references to Marit Lage. So I fail to see how getting cards I didn't care to have dictates how critical I can be about the story.
You forgot Innistrad....*Jenrik* If you do not care for Dominaria characters, I see no point in criticizing that Teferi ascended offscreen. Maybe you should read the old materials. Then you would be more able to see through my eyes and learn to appreciate things.
I consider my post amusing. Innistrad is dead, and no offense, but I don't need to see things through your eyes to have my own opinions. Considering I don't care about Teferi and you seem to, it doesn't bother me that we got a story about a mold instead of Teferi re-sparking, even if is a glaring deficit in the lore from a critical perspective. If you ask me, I find Dominaria to be boring and basic and the nostalgia nauseating, but you won't find me applying those emotions to my assessment of the story. I'm far too much of a True Blue mage to be so unreasonable. If anything, reading the old material seems to create more confusion than it resolves, what with the glancing retcons and unexplained revisions.
A year ago, we would never expect to even SEE Dominaria and its characters again. Now, we got an outright great set stuffed to the roof with awesome references. Jodah card, Jaya PW card, awesome new cards for Teferi, Jhoira. Weatherlight vehicle card. Updated Dominaria map. Tell me, how many of this you would thought possible at the beginning on 2017?
When I see reactions like this, I see a kid who was given something they passionately wished for for years, and now they are whining because it is not exactly the color they wanted.
Your whole list there are the things people liked about Dominaria. Genuinely don't recall anyone complaining about the things on that list. Feels like a strawman to set up a whining kid reference, especially ironic since you go on to have some critiques of the story, same as many others in the forum.
And since this is a story forum, it's naive to think people won't criticize the story. It's literally the place to do it. Like walking into a grocery store and complaining that there's all this food. This forum is populated by people who care (often very deeply) about the story. So since this is a topic-specific thread in a topic-specific forum, saying 'everything but the story was great, stop whining, kids' in a story-specific thread and forum is just silly.
Anyway.
Quick question about Liliana and the Chain Veil. My initial impression years ago was that to pull off huge feats of magic, she would have to tap into the Veil. Now, it seems she can't do much without the Veil, and getting rid of the demon pacts will give her her power back again. Is this a change, and if so, when did that happen? I don't recall.
Salty for agreeing with the critique about Teferi re-sparking off-screen.
And I'm not some kid being given what they want, for the record. While I admire past characters getting cards (so that I get the ones I want, which I haven't yet, this year) I actually don't care for Dominaria or any of its characters or even most of its cards. I have a pretty solid reputation for caring only about Jace, Theros and Kamigawa lore. I never read any of the old material, and the only thing I care to know about Dominaria is the Umezawa connection with the Myojin of Night's Reach and passing references to Marit Lage. So I fail to see how getting cards I didn't care to have dictates how critical I can be about the story.
I have a less-solid reputation for caring mostly about Alara and its lore. I have some interest in most planes that the game has visited, including Dominaria, but Alara as a world just appeals to me a lot more. The only people currently in the story with ties to the plane have no discernible reason to go back there any time soon.
I loved Esper on Alara. To a lesser extent Bant, but not the others. It was pretty cool. I'd like to know more about Silas Renn specifically, since most of the source material on him isn't canon. I imagine his blurb and perhaps some comics are, but that's a limited pool of information.
Well, between The Seeker's Fall comics and the fact that the Seekers themselves were a shady organization that Bolas used for his schemes, Silas hasn't had the most positive signals about his character. His card being UB, a color combination not normally associated with a goody-two-shoes, doesn't help his case there either.
Also, he's probably aged quite a bit since the time period his card depicts him in, if that's something bothers you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Off base? No you are on base. We know what is going to happen to Lili, Bolas is "Assuming Direct Control". I don't especially feel bad for her though so it doesn't work on me. Because characters can be monsters in my book and still care about some people.
Yeah Belzenlok only seems to have gotten so far because no one bothered to stop him until this point. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for most of our heroes. Teferi had a kid to raise and was searching for a way to get Zhalfir back. Karn was off plane, cleaning up Oil Spills and trying to take out Phyrexia. But again I am not seeing any reason why Jodah did zilch. And Jhoira took this long to deal with it.
Something I remember from their fight with bolas...Lilaian talks about how she likes the dead since they can't be disappointed in her or hurt if she betrays them. Next week is gonna be hard on her.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
we have to accept what is given. I thought 12 episodes will be enough, but apparently Martha Wells decided to emphasize wholly different parts than I expected.
The shallowness and inability to dig into the most detailed Magic setting (incl. magical laws, physics etc...) could be expected, but Teferi reascending offscreen...no explanation how Jhoira extracted the spark back into the stone...extensive focus on Gideon and Liliana, and at best, the neWeatherlight crew...
Well, I must remind myself it could have been far worse. Wyatt or Beyer could have written this. And also that Dominaria is a gem that nobody expected to ever see. I am trying to be grateful
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
The story doesn't explain anything and the reason for character behavior prior to the story don't work logically with how they are acting now or how they acted in the past (previous stories).
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Like for instance Teferi wants to help stop Bolas cause he has a daughter and might have grandkids..etc? What I am not seeing how that provides extra motivation to stop Bolas, he is a Blue character right that has met Bolas before that should be pretty sufficient reason to want to stop Bolas. Much like there is no logical reason for Teferi not to want his spark back or Jhoira to think he wouldn't want it back. I cannot think of single reason why being resparked would note be net positive in getting Zhalfir Back or protecting his family. Or for Karn to not tell Jhoira Venser died. And so on and so forth. I say only Jaya has a good motivation for faking as Mother Luti.
I mean, I’ve seen a lot of positive reaction to Slimefoot so it seems like they were a hit.
In story Teferi is struggling to stop sand waves and failing puzzles. In Game, he has brought UWx Control Decks out of the Wilderness and to the Promised Lands. Mostly in Standard and Modern but I even read he helped win a 300+ Vintage Tournament.
In story, Karn has grabbed one artifact and cried about Venser. In game, he is popping up across formats with strong performances from Vintage to Standard.
To back Teferi up, he's wrecking in my Zedruu deck. Almost exactly what the deck needs, and the ultimate is devastating.
Still, I try not to draw parallels between stories and cards,they're clearly not equivalent.
I get it, though - Teferi has long been my favourite legend of lore. Mirage was released very soon before I started playing, so he was my first glimpse at planeswalkers, and he reminds me of some of my favourite sorcerers from books - he even holds a pivotal flavour role in one of my vorthos builds.
Add that refusal to answer any of the critical questions. Why does Jhoira having his spark? Mana Rig. Well that explains nothing. Why does Jhoira think he wouldn't want his spark back? Again no real reason given it mostly seems to not make Jhoira look like the worst friend ever for planning to use it restart the Weatherlight, a Weatherlight I should note that is no better then any vehicle on Kaladesh cause it cannot planeshift anymore.
Next episode: Waste of time with Gids fighting in pit. Somebody kills Yargle. Belzenlock goes down like a sack of potatoes and Lily gets in Bolas Clutches and we're off to Ravnica........meh
The anniversary stuff just didnt live up....see A25 (Masters 25) as well
But yeah storyline wise this was disappointing. About the only positive thing I can say is the characterization is pretty good for the old guard...the motivations, story beats and power level not so much. And the New Weatherlight crew is a waste of time.
But yeah I am sure WOTC will toss another pushed Jace at us ... they cannot help themselves. Jace, Savior of Ravnica? Jace, Dragon Slayer?
Granted I will reiterate despite what Wells said before this story...I still haven't seen anything to suggest she really loves Teferi as a character as she claimed beforehand. I don't agree with the wife or kid, I don't agree with the power/intelligence nerfs displayed but mostly I certainly don't agree with how getting his spark has been handled on any level. From the non explanation from Jhoira on how she got, to when she got it, to her inexplicably thinking Teferi wouldn't want it back (directly contradicting Time Spiral) and finally not showing the resparking on page at all. That last part is especially unforgivable in my book.
I am fine with WOTC's "diversity push" but that doesn't mean I am for poor execution on that front. Especially not when the marketing campaign has said diversity front at center for the set.
On one hand I appreciate they're at least doing the "infiltrate the place" part of the story (quite the disbelief if they magically just faced Belzenlok straightaway), but on the other hand, Belzenlok's definitely getting the short end himself. But then again, we already didn't have the space left to begin with, so it was just a making a bad choice over a worse one...
We're definitely getting a Jace card in Ravnica, that's 3 sets (and 9 potential open spaces). If Blackblade's flavor is any indication, Gideon would probably be doing the actual slaying - the sheer amount of management if the Guilds really split apart because of Bolas is probably enough to keep Jace distracted that I'm not even sure of Jace gets to see the Elder Dragon himself (Vraska is a definite though). I would actually appreciate if Jace was really kept busy of the guilds and didn't participate in the actual direct showdown with the Elder Dragon - he'll simultaneously be behind-the-scenes but also on-the-scene because he's background manager instead. It's not like Bolas has a particular grudge against Jace to begin with anyway (Ajani would probably beat Jace to that queue).
There is no point in being salty.
A year ago, we would never expect to even SEE Dominaria and its characters again. Now, we got an outright great set stuffed to the roof with awesome references. Jodah card, Jaya PW card, awesome new cards for Teferi, Jhoira. Weatherlight vehicle card. Updated Dominaria map. Tell me, how many of this you would thought possible at the beginning on 2017?
When I see reactions like this, I see a kid who was given something they passionately wished for for years, and now they are whining because it is not exactly the color they wanted.
The guys who worked on Dominaria delivered a masterpiece. I do not want to speculate, but the fact that the two main "fathers" of Dominaria creatively, Mark Winters and Kelly Digges left Wizards after this set, is kinda strange. Almost like Dominaria was not widely supported to be made, and they were told - okay, go ahead and do it, but it will be the last thing you do for Wizards.
Let's face it - the nonplaneswalking Dominaria characters are globally not so important any more. In that regard, I wish Teferi's reascension was worked on in more detail, and Karn's character as well. Because these ones matter.
On the other hand, and at the same time, they wanted in the same time to establish a new roster of characters to return to when the time comes. That's why there is the emphasis on Arvad, Tiana or Slimefoot. I see the logic.
Yes, the narration is strangely paced. Seeing Belzenlok just for one story. But on the other hand again, we are going with a party of heroes to face the big bad, seeing the story by their own eyes. And Liliana's demons do not have very big screen lifetime - the only one who actually managed to appear in more than one xtory was Razaketh, and then again,just one speaking story before dying. Griselbrand was killed in one sentence, and Kothophed in one comic page. So again, nothing new here.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Your whole list there are the things people liked about Dominaria. Genuinely don't recall anyone complaining about the things on that list. Feels like a strawman to set up a whining kid reference, especially ironic since you go on to have some critiques of the story, same as many others in the forum.
And since this is a story forum, it's naive to think people won't criticize the story. It's literally the place to do it. Like walking into a grocery store and complaining that there's all this food. This forum is populated by people who care (often very deeply) about the story. So since this is a topic-specific thread in a topic-specific forum, saying 'everything but the story was great, stop whining, kids' in a story-specific thread and forum is just silly.
Anyway.
Quick question about Liliana and the Chain Veil. My initial impression years ago was that to pull off huge feats of magic, she would have to tap into the Veil. Now, it seems she can't do much without the Veil, and getting rid of the demon pacts will give her her power back again. Is this a change, and if so, when did that happen? I don't recall.
And I'm not some kid being given what they want, for the record. While I admire past characters getting cards (so that I get the ones I want, which I haven't yet, this year) I actually don't care for Dominaria or any of its characters or even most of its cards. I have a pretty solid reputation for caring only about Jace, Theros and Kamigawa lore. I never read any of the old material, and the only thing I care to know about Dominaria is the Umezawa connection with the Myojin of Night's Reach and passing references to Marit Lage. So I fail to see how getting cards I didn't care to have dictates how critical I can be about the story.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I have a less-solid reputation for caring mostly about Alara and its lore. I have some interest in most planes that the game has visited, including Dominaria, but Alara as a world just appeals to me a lot more. The only people currently in the story with ties to the plane have no discernible reason to go back there any time soon.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
1) Tell me, frankly: Do you agree that Tiro's comment was, in any way, a mature expression of criticism?
2) Read my post again. Firstly, I do not say "everything was great, stop whining, kids". Anywhere. I am saying that in the grand perspective, Dominaria is a Vorthos homerun. And that the story could have been done much worse.
This goes against what she achieved on Amonkhet. Killing Raz without using the Veil. But she did it intentionally, because she was afraid that another use of the Veil will be costly. Like taking another shot of drug knowing it will make you far worse in the end. Might be explained that by using it to Josu, it took so high toll that she is now weakened.
I just consider your smirky post about Creative being on 'shrooms unnecessary and infantile.
You forgot Innistrad....*Jenrik* If you do not care for Dominaria characters, I see no point in criticizing that Teferi ascended offscreen. Maybe you should read the old materials. Then you would be more able to see through my eyes and learn to appreciate things.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Well, between The Seeker's Fall comics and the fact that the Seekers themselves were a shady organization that Bolas used for his schemes, Silas hasn't had the most positive signals about his character. His card being UB, a color combination not normally associated with a goody-two-shoes, doesn't help his case there either.
Also, he's probably aged quite a bit since the time period his card depicts him in, if that's something bothers you.