And that goes for the multiverse as a whole, of course, because if a non-trivial percentage of planeswalkers are as naive and dorky as Huatli -- or as IDGAF as Angrath -- there would be planeswalkers blowing the secret all over the place.
Would you believe me if I told you that planeswalkers are real?
It's such an outlandish claim, it'd be immersion breaking if the randos on a plane immediately believed in planeswalkers, just because they heard about mages doing magey stuff in a world filled with magic.
If you told me, no. But if a catman showed up on my notably catman-free planet, and he and his friends -- several of whom dress in ways that nobody on my planet dresses, and have powers that nobody on my planet has -- rapidly overthrew the government, had a huge fight with a supervillain (who also has extremely unusual powers) over something called a "planar portal" that several officials and scientists would have partially known about, and then they all suddenly disappeared without a trace, I think I'd be pretty curious about where they came from and where they went. And I'd be quite willing to entertain an explanation that they came from an alien dimension.
But we've had this debate before on its own thread, no need to rehash everything here.
To be fair, you could assume the oddly dressed revolutionaries were psychopaths and the cat person an abomination of magic/science, and that would require less assumptions than the idea of other planes existing beyond their reality. And beyond Rashmi (who didn't learn until quite a ways through and destroyed all her information on the bridge), Tezzeret (who was keeping the locals deliberately in the dark), and Saheeli (who has been working to keep other planes a secret) everyone on the plane just assumed the bridge was just a teleporter.
And that goes for the multiverse as a whole, of course, because if a non-trivial percentage of planeswalkers are as naive and dorky as Huatli -- or as IDGAF as Angrath -- there would be planeswalkers blowing the secret all over the place.
Would you believe me if I told you that planeswalkers are real?
It's such an outlandish claim, it'd be immersion breaking if the randos on a plane immediately believed in planeswalkers, just because they heard about mages doing magey stuff in a world filled with magic.
If you told me, no. But if a catman showed up on my notably catman-free planet, and he and his friends -- several of whom dress in ways that nobody on my planet dresses, and have powers that nobody on my planet has -- rapidly overthrew the government, had a huge fight with a supervillain (who also has extremely unusual powers) over something called a "planar portal" that several officials and scientists would have partially known about, and then they all suddenly disappeared without a trace, I think I'd be pretty curious about where they came from and where they went. And I'd be quite willing to entertain an explanation that they came from an alien dimension.
And you're very likely to have never witnessed the bolded part in person but only heard in various differing stories.
And again, this is a world in which one day weird-looking wispy humanoids scramble out of aether refineries and are capable of thought and speech. I really don't think in a world where magic exists and the birth of a new race has been witnessed in historically recent times, stuff like you described above is all THAT weird.
Even so, the last part still assumed you believe in every random claim from people who themselves probably didn't even witness the thing first-hand. Do you also believe in bigfoot, roswell-aliens and "aliens built the pyramids"? If no, why not?
Well, I don't want to rehash the entire thread from last year, but in a nutshell, it's important to discard the term "magic" and instead pay attention to the difference is between phenomena that are within the normal functioning of a world, and thus would be regarded by its population as "natural," and those that are not normal within that world, and thus would appear to people to be "supernatural." Dinosaurs are natural on Ixalan, but would seem supernatural on Lorwyn. Faeries are natural on Lorwyn, but would seem supernatural on Tarkir.
It's a legitimate point that the wilder and more unpredictable a plane's natural phenomena are, and the less well-understood they are by the populace, the blurrier the line will be between natural and supernatural. On a big crazy plane like Dominaria, people probably wouldn't bat an eye at a flying whale, even if they'd never seen one before. Unless they were a scientist of some sort, they'd just assume it was one of the many crazy things in the crazy world and move on.
But Kaladesh as a plane doesn't seem to be much like that. It is a plane of extremely advanced scientific knowledge, with a huge population of intensely curious scientific minds. And they have a pretty solid handle on the overall system of natural laws by which their plane works. They have catalogs of the animals that live on their world, an office of compliance specifically in charge of policing unusual expressions of magical power, scientists who have essentially discovered the multiverse through experimentation, and on top of everything, at least two very famous and prominent resident planeswalkers who have no particularly strong motivation to maintain the secret (despite how Saheeli is written, her motivation really doesn't make a whole lot of sense within her culture and personality) -- plus, during the story, Chandra, who couldn't keep a secret if her life depended on it, especially from her mother.
What they *don't* have is catmen like Ajani. Or elves that look anything like Nissa. Or humans that look anything like Jace and Liliana, for that matter (Gideon could probably pass for Kaladeshi). Or people who come back from the dead 20 years after public execution, like Chandra did. Or anybody who can do anything like what Jace does with illusions, or Liliana does with necromancy, or Gideon does with invulnerability, etc. These things are all going to appear obviously supernatural to any Kaladeshi, whether scientist or not.
The whole Gatewatch would look as weird to Kaladesh as the Justice League looks to earth in DC comics (mods, I don't mean this as a Jacetice League criticism, I just think it's an apt analogy in this particular situation). They all suddenly showed up, very publicly won a huge civil war, and then all suddenly disappeared. People are gonna really want to know what the heck those guys were. Where they came from, why they have superpowers, whether they're still around or are going to come back -- these would be very important questions, especially to a planet full of scientific researchers.
And finally, there's no real meta-narrative reason to keep this secret. We already have planes that know all about planeswalkers, like Dominaria and Shandalar. And makes sense for some planes not to know about them, because they're less scientifically advanced or more internally bizarre. But Kaladesh seems like an especially awkward place to enforce that trope. And on lots of planes, when planeswalkers show up and start wrecking house, the natural thing for most people in most planes to do is to ask those supernatural questions, and lots of the planeswalkers we've met would be inclined to answer them honestly.
I'm going to drop the debate here. It's really off topic at this point. But relevant to this actual thread, I'll add that anybody on Ixalan that ever met Angrath -- and didn't end up dead -- probably knows about planeswalkers.
I'm going to drop the debate here. It's really off topic at this point. But relevant to this actual thread, I'll add that anybody on Ixalan that ever met Angrath -- and didn't end up dead -- probably knows about planeswalkers.
I'd add that Tishana already knows about planeswalkers and other worlds (even if she doesn't know what they're called), and Elenda at least knows that other worlds exist out there IIRC.
Neither woman seems like they'd have much of a reason to keep that a secret from their respective tribes.
Speaking of which, I've noticed that Simic females seem to have a tendency to find out about this earlier than most other planebound beings in these stories, if Rashmi, Tishana and Kydele are any indication. Kydele found out from Kruphix, Tishana found out by "feeling the world" and Rashmi found out through science. Considering Simic marries connecting with the world around you with green and the active pursuit of knowledge with blue, it probably isn't a complete coincidence.
I still resent how they hand-waved away the fact that Jarad was a protagonist in the original Ravnica books. By this point I'm convinced that no one on the current creative team has read said books. I'm glad that they're giving us a BG protagonist in the form of Vraska but they don't have to erase another BG protagonist to do so. I don't understand how he went from the only sane and halfway decent person in the Golgari to a racist dictator with no explanation in between. Sure, a lot can happen in 60-ish years, but - say it with me now - show, don't tell.
I see it as Jarad's emotional attachments gradually rotting away with his flesh - as I recall from the original Ravnica trilogy, Jarad had died and used necromancy to become a lich, and his onetime wife noted that even if he appeared the same for now, he wouldn't be the same man he once was. Which makes sense. He doesn't need to eat or sleep or procreate, so there's no subconscious reminders of his mortality or biological need to connect with others. I sincerely doubt he would continue caring about living beings beyond what they can contribute to him and the guild.
Also,concerning the date between Vraska and Jace... when you are a powerful, hardened, veteran killer fighting regularly in medieval worlds, you can't understand or be appealed by the concept of dating, that's just silly.
Call it a rendez-vous, a meeting, a briefing, an attack plan or whatever but not a date, that's ridiculous
None of those are appropriate terms for a casual night on the town.
Vraska may be hardened, but she doesn't have a complete lack of social skills.
Also,concerning the date between Vraska and Jace... when you are a powerful, hardened, veteran killer fighting regularly in medieval worlds, you can't understand or be appealed by the concept of dating, that's just silly.
Call it a rendez-vous, a meeting, a briefing, an attack plan or whatever but not a date, that's ridiculous
None of those are appropriate terms for a casual night on the town.
English is not my native language but "meeting" seems good enough.
The point wasn't to find an appropriate term anyways, just to not call this a date.
Considering "date" is in her vocabulary, why wouldn't she use it? Also we're talking about the same woman who reads history books and memoirs, and goes to different worlds to collect decorations for her flat, in her spare time. Vraska isn't a simple character. For all we know (as I don't remember if this is canon or not), she might have entertained the notion before, but thought it'd never work because of who she is and what she does.
But Kaladesh as a plane doesn't seem to be much like that. It is a plane of extremely advanced scientific knowledge
It is also a plane of "SCIENCE!" so strange clothing and armor is likely not uncommon and we only saw one city of it so we can't guess what the larger population looks like as they do have paler skinned folks, as Chandra attests too.
Also,concerning the date between Vraska and Jace... when you are a powerful, hardened, veteran killer fighting regularly in medieval worlds, you can't understand or be appealed by the concept of dating, that's just silly.
Call it a rendez-vous, a meeting, a briefing, an attack plan or whatever but not a date, that's ridiculous
None of those are appropriate terms for a casual night on the town.
English is not my native language but "meeting" seems good enough.
The point wasn't to find an appropriate term anyways, just to not call this a date.
Considering "date" is in her vocabulary, why wouldn't she use it? Also we're talking about the same woman who reads history books and memoirs, and goes to different worlds to collect decorations for her flat, in her spare time. Vraska isn't a simple character. For all we know (as I don't remember if this is canon or not), she might have entertained the notion before, but thought it'd never work because of who she is and what she does.
Vraska did mention she hadn't been on a date in a while in one of the stories, The Race, part 1 I think.
After the disaster that is last week's story, at least this one's ok.
Huatli being a tourist might have made for a wonderful/funny story, but too bad about the emperor's dickery from last week and now which makes that as a non-option.
Unhappy that Angrath's story is too short. You'd think that his 14-year abssence would've been good for a whole set of story all by itself, but now, they had to truncate it into a simple "I'm home" short. Beh. They really are not interested in dispelling my accussations that they are trying their damnest to make Angrath uninteresting.
Vraska's story is a bit too straightforward and too... easy. I would've expected Bolas to not fully honor his side of the deal, but now with Jarad about to kick the bucket, well, we'll see what'll happen.
Vraska's story is a bit too straightforward and too... easy. I would've expected Bolas to not fully honor his side of the deal, but now with Jarad about to kick the bucket, well, we'll see what'll happen.
Bolas gets more out of Vraska, now his *minion*, being the guild master then he would betraying her, which is what he is going to do in anyways with his invasion.
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The Kaladeshi seem to see the world from a scientific point of view, and magic, in the traditional sense, is relatively rare. Their technology is magic based, but its techno magic that operates based on predictable rules. I'd argue that they would be generally predisposed to believe that most magic is just an example of technology they have not encountered before or do not yet understand. The inverse of the famous Arthur C Clarke quote in essence, magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced technology. Bring a deflector shield to Theros, the residents will assume it's magic. Bring Gideon to Kaladesh, and the residents will assume his protective magic is a deflector shield.
Second, on the topic of Vraska dating: Vraska is Ravnican. Ravnica is not a medieval world, its more 19th century minus guns (well, minus non magic guns). Dating is a thing on Ravnica. Vraska would not only be familiar with the idea, but it would be her go to word to describe "hanging out with someone to have fun and potentially bone down the line". Ravnicans date. The also go to nightclubs and fancy restaurants, have a regular police force, have indoor plumbing, and have many modern amenities. They have streetlights, sewers, trains (well, giant bugs that serve as trains), videophones, teleporters, and all kinds of crazy techno magic. It's supposed to feel like a city, dating is definitely a thing there.
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Second, on the topic of Vraska dating: Vraska is Ravnican. Ravnica is not a medieval world, its more 19th century minus guns (well, minus non magic guns). Dating is a thing on Ravnica. Vraska would not only be familiar with the idea, but it would be her go to word to describe "hanging out with someone to have fun and potentially bone down the line". Ravnicans date. The also go to nightclubs and fancy restaurants, have a regular police force, have indoor plumbing, and have many modern amenities. They have streetlights, sewers, trains (well, giant bugs that serve as trains), videophones, teleporters, and all kinds of crazy techno magic. It's supposed to feel like a city, dating is definitely a thing there.
This started out as a justification for Vraska talking about dating, and then somehow turned into an explanation for why Ravnica is awesome.
The problem, I think, is assuming that Magic is a medieval fantasy when it isnt. This same conversation came up when Jace asked for coffee. Not entirely coincidentally, that was on Ravnica. Due to the nature of the planes Magic in general doesnt really fit into one genre. They dont want to get so advanced that they're moving into sci-fi but theyre not bothered by getting pretty modern with things. Hence the characters are not bound to speaking Victorian English. As a matter of fact they wouldn't be regardless because its a fantasy world where they can have whatever dialect they want and using modern terminology like "date"or "coffee" is not only easier on the writers than coming up with terms for these words but easier for readers to identify with.
The problem, I think, is assuming that Magic is a medieval fantasy when it isnt. This same conversation came up when Jace asked for coffee. Not entirely coincidentally, that was on Ravnica. Due to the nature of the planes Magic in general doesnt really fit into one genre. They dont want to get so advanced that they're moving into sci-fi but theyre not bothered by getting pretty modern with things. Hence the characters are not bound to speaking Victorian English. As a matter of fact they wouldn't be regardless because its a fantasy world where they can have whatever dialect they want and using modern terminology like "date"or "coffee" is not only easier on the writers than coming up with terms for these words but easier for readers to identify with.
I would say it depends on the plane though. Ravnica, and Kaladesh, sure, but they're supposed to have a modern feel. Dominaria leans closer to traditional fantasy, so I wouldn't expect it as much there. I would be taken aback by seeing it in a Kamigawa, Tarkir, or Alara revisit. Innistrad I expect to feel Victorian or Regency.
But, again, it also depends on what we are talking about. Dominaria is a fully realized world with several continents and cultures, some of which are fantasy tropes and some of which are loosely based on real places. I'd be fine with Dominarians eating tomatoes and drinking coffee, because they have access to a developed trade system spanning the world and fantasy settings generally have flora and fauna, and crops, that mirror earth's, just with fantastical additions (you rarely see a total overhaul like in Morrowind). I wouldn't expect them in Kamigawa because, as far as we've seen, its only fake Japan, or at least fake Japan is isolated. Ditto Innistrad, where outside of perhaps Nephalia all we've seen is fake Germany, and fake Germany doesn't have much contact from other continents (Nephalia, as a Port, might, but outside of the occasional Asian or black person in card art we don't see any outside influence. Wherever those people came from, they don't seem to have brought their culture or any goods with them).
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I would be taken aback by seeing it in a Kamigawa, Tarkir, or Alara revisit.
Esper is practically a cyberpunk realm, and Breya's discovery of the Etherium-making process + the Noble Work's philosophy suggest that Esper's drive to turn every living thing into an artifact isn't going to stop at the borders of the former shard.
I would say it depends on the plane though. Ravnica, and Kaladesh, sure, but they're supposed to have a modern feel. Dominaria leans closer to traditional fantasy, so I wouldn't expect it as much there. I would be taken aback by seeing it in a Kamigawa, Tarkir, or Alara revisit. Innistrad I expect to feel Victorian or Regency.
But, again, it also depends on what we are talking about. Dominaria is a fully realized world with several continents and cultures, some of which are fantasy tropes and some of which are loosely based on real places. I'd be fine with Dominarians eating tomatoes and drinking coffee, because they have access to a developed trade system spanning the world and fantasy settings generally have flora and fauna, and crops, that mirror earth's, just with fantastical additions (you rarely see a total overhaul like in Morrowind). I wouldn't expect them in Kamigawa because, as far as we've seen, its only fake Japan, or at least fake Japan is isolated. Ditto Innistrad, where outside of perhaps Nephalia all we've seen is fake Germany, and fake Germany doesn't have much contact from other continents (Nephalia, as a Port, might, but outside of the occasional Asian or black person in card art we don't see any outside influence. Wherever those people came from, they don't seem to have brought their culture or any goods with them).
That's a fine point except that were talking about Planeswalkers. In the case of plane bound characters your absolutely right. I can see how itt would be offputting for Odric to call for a cup of coffee. On the other hand it doesn't make sense for two Planeswalkers from one of the moat modern planes to change how they would talk to one another just because they're on a plane that mirrors the 16th century Atlantic. In the end I guess its a personal preference thing. I don't much mind how the characters tall, regardless of which plane they're on.
Oh, I just remembered something. You know how after we saw the picture of Ixalan's Binding and despite the fact that's it's basically the Azorius Symbol people went "nah it's nothing, it's a very basic shape, Azor has literally nothing to do with this".
Well, I don't want to say "I told you so", but I told you so. :^)
Oh, I just remembered something. You know how after we saw the picture of Ixalan's Binding and despite the fact that's it's basically the Azorius Symbol people went "nah it's nothing, it's a very basic shape, Azor has literally nothing to do with this".
Well, I don't want to say "I told you so", but I told you so. :^)
As an Azor-sceptic I submit to your superior wisdom, oh wise one. Though at least the theory that Ugin is involved wasn't that far from the truth either.
All in all, Ixalans stories (in my humble opinion) had their flaws, particularly in the "Rivals" part, but I liked the world, I loved the character growth for Jace and Vraska, the revelation to where it all leads to (Ravnica, my favorite plane and finally with a serious threat again which hopefully unites the guilds somewhat). Since I'm someone who tries to accentuate the positives, this was actually a rather good follow-up to the bleak Amonkhet storyline which I liked a lot (but after which a more "light-hearted" story was clearly needed). Looking forward to Dominaria and what has changed since the mending (Teferi has grown a beard and someone has built a Weatherlight-like air ship. That's what I've taken out of it for now :D)
I would say it depends on the plane though. Ravnica, and Kaladesh, sure, but they're supposed to have a modern feel. Dominaria leans closer to traditional fantasy, so I wouldn't expect it as much there. I would be taken aback by seeing it in a Kamigawa, Tarkir, or Alara revisit. Innistrad I expect to feel Victorian or Regency.
But, again, it also depends on what we are talking about. Dominaria is a fully realized world with several continents and cultures, some of which are fantasy tropes and some of which are loosely based on real places. I'd be fine with Dominarians eating tomatoes and drinking coffee, because they have access to a developed trade system spanning the world and fantasy settings generally have flora and fauna, and crops, that mirror earth's, just with fantastical additions (you rarely see a total overhaul like in Morrowind). I wouldn't expect them in Kamigawa because, as far as we've seen, its only fake Japan, or at least fake Japan is isolated. Ditto Innistrad, where outside of perhaps Nephalia all we've seen is fake Germany, and fake Germany doesn't have much contact from other continents (Nephalia, as a Port, might, but outside of the occasional Asian or black person in card art we don't see any outside influence. Wherever those people came from, they don't seem to have brought their culture or any goods with them).
That's a fine point except that were talking about Planeswalkers. In the case of plane bound characters your absolutely right. I can see how itt would be offputting for Odric to call for a cup of coffee. On the other hand it doesn't make sense for two Planeswalkers from one of the moat modern planes to change how they would talk to one another just because they're on a plane that mirrors the 16th century Atlantic. In the end I guess its a personal preference thing. I don't much mind how the characters tall, regardless of which plane they're on.
Oh, sorry, I was rambling a bit so I wasn't very clear, I was talking about planes characters are from, not about walkers on a foreign plane talking to each other. Jace and Vraska conversing about a coffee date while on Ixalan makes sense. They'd probably check to see if coffee and dates are things on Ixalan before talking about them with natives though. Huatli going off about dinosaurs was mildly confusing to Saheeli, who already understands the whole planeswalker thing, but would be weird to a non planeswalker. How walkers interact with each other should be different than how they interact with bon walkers, which should differ plane by plane, code switching in a way.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
If Jace used the word "date" in the Ravnican language, wouldn't the Ixalani listener hear a similar concept in their language?
No one is actually speaking English after all.
I think.
Linguistics in fantasy worlds, no matter if medieval-like or steampunk, are weird. Planeswalkers are special, but how anyone from one of the factions of Ixalan understands what folks from another faction are saying? Ravnica is worldwide city, there shouldn't exist single Ravnican language. It kinda is shown in Mazirek's story, but it's still not enough.
Just realized, Bolas thinks Azor a golden statue now, assuming that he belived Vraska's false memoeries. So from his prepective, two of his greatest enimies( Ugin and Azor) are no longer an issue. Will be interesting if Jace somehow orchestrates Azor's re-sparking and has him and Ugin as Aces in the hole.
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To be fair, you could assume the oddly dressed revolutionaries were psychopaths and the cat person an abomination of magic/science, and that would require less assumptions than the idea of other planes existing beyond their reality. And beyond Rashmi (who didn't learn until quite a ways through and destroyed all her information on the bridge), Tezzeret (who was keeping the locals deliberately in the dark), and Saheeli (who has been working to keep other planes a secret) everyone on the plane just assumed the bridge was just a teleporter.
And you're very likely to have never witnessed the bolded part in person but only heard in various differing stories.
And again, this is a world in which one day weird-looking wispy humanoids scramble out of aether refineries and are capable of thought and speech. I really don't think in a world where magic exists and the birth of a new race has been witnessed in historically recent times, stuff like you described above is all THAT weird.
Even so, the last part still assumed you believe in every random claim from people who themselves probably didn't even witness the thing first-hand. Do you also believe in bigfoot, roswell-aliens and "aliens built the pyramids"? If no, why not?
(Not revealing his homeplane)
The only clues I see is it might be a western one.
But atleast there's I good chance we haven't seen the last of angrath.
It's a legitimate point that the wilder and more unpredictable a plane's natural phenomena are, and the less well-understood they are by the populace, the blurrier the line will be between natural and supernatural. On a big crazy plane like Dominaria, people probably wouldn't bat an eye at a flying whale, even if they'd never seen one before. Unless they were a scientist of some sort, they'd just assume it was one of the many crazy things in the crazy world and move on.
But Kaladesh as a plane doesn't seem to be much like that. It is a plane of extremely advanced scientific knowledge, with a huge population of intensely curious scientific minds. And they have a pretty solid handle on the overall system of natural laws by which their plane works. They have catalogs of the animals that live on their world, an office of compliance specifically in charge of policing unusual expressions of magical power, scientists who have essentially discovered the multiverse through experimentation, and on top of everything, at least two very famous and prominent resident planeswalkers who have no particularly strong motivation to maintain the secret (despite how Saheeli is written, her motivation really doesn't make a whole lot of sense within her culture and personality) -- plus, during the story, Chandra, who couldn't keep a secret if her life depended on it, especially from her mother.
What they *don't* have is catmen like Ajani. Or elves that look anything like Nissa. Or humans that look anything like Jace and Liliana, for that matter (Gideon could probably pass for Kaladeshi). Or people who come back from the dead 20 years after public execution, like Chandra did. Or anybody who can do anything like what Jace does with illusions, or Liliana does with necromancy, or Gideon does with invulnerability, etc. These things are all going to appear obviously supernatural to any Kaladeshi, whether scientist or not.
The whole Gatewatch would look as weird to Kaladesh as the Justice League looks to earth in DC comics (mods, I don't mean this as a Jacetice League criticism, I just think it's an apt analogy in this particular situation). They all suddenly showed up, very publicly won a huge civil war, and then all suddenly disappeared. People are gonna really want to know what the heck those guys were. Where they came from, why they have superpowers, whether they're still around or are going to come back -- these would be very important questions, especially to a planet full of scientific researchers.
And finally, there's no real meta-narrative reason to keep this secret. We already have planes that know all about planeswalkers, like Dominaria and Shandalar. And makes sense for some planes not to know about them, because they're less scientifically advanced or more internally bizarre. But Kaladesh seems like an especially awkward place to enforce that trope. And on lots of planes, when planeswalkers show up and start wrecking house, the natural thing for most people in most planes to do is to ask those supernatural questions, and lots of the planeswalkers we've met would be inclined to answer them honestly.
I'm going to drop the debate here. It's really off topic at this point. But relevant to this actual thread, I'll add that anybody on Ixalan that ever met Angrath -- and didn't end up dead -- probably knows about planeswalkers.
I'd add that Tishana already knows about planeswalkers and other worlds (even if she doesn't know what they're called), and Elenda at least knows that other worlds exist out there IIRC.
Neither woman seems like they'd have much of a reason to keep that a secret from their respective tribes.
Speaking of which, I've noticed that Simic females seem to have a tendency to find out about this earlier than most other planebound beings in these stories, if Rashmi, Tishana and Kydele are any indication. Kydele found out from Kruphix, Tishana found out by "feeling the world" and Rashmi found out through science. Considering Simic marries connecting with the world around you with green and the active pursuit of knowledge with blue, it probably isn't a complete coincidence.
I see it as Jarad's emotional attachments gradually rotting away with his flesh - as I recall from the original Ravnica trilogy, Jarad had died and used necromancy to become a lich, and his onetime wife noted that even if he appeared the same for now, he wouldn't be the same man he once was. Which makes sense. He doesn't need to eat or sleep or procreate, so there's no subconscious reminders of his mortality or biological need to connect with others. I sincerely doubt he would continue caring about living beings beyond what they can contribute to him and the guild.
None of those are appropriate terms for a casual night on the town.
Vraska may be hardened, but she doesn't have a complete lack of social skills.
Considering "date" is in her vocabulary, why wouldn't she use it? Also we're talking about the same woman who reads history books and memoirs, and goes to different worlds to collect decorations for her flat, in her spare time. Vraska isn't a simple character. For all we know (as I don't remember if this is canon or not), she might have entertained the notion before, but thought it'd never work because of who she is and what she does.
It is also a plane of "SCIENCE!" so strange clothing and armor is likely not uncommon and we only saw one city of it so we can't guess what the larger population looks like as they do have paler skinned folks, as Chandra attests too.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Huatli being a tourist might have made for a wonderful/funny story, but too bad about the emperor's dickery from last week and now which makes that as a non-option.
Unhappy that Angrath's story is too short. You'd think that his 14-year abssence would've been good for a whole set of story all by itself, but now, they had to truncate it into a simple "I'm home" short. Beh. They really are not interested in dispelling my accussations that they are trying their damnest to make Angrath uninteresting.
Vraska's story is a bit too straightforward and too... easy. I would've expected Bolas to not fully honor his side of the deal, but now with Jarad about to kick the bucket, well, we'll see what'll happen.
Jaya joins the Gatewatch? Oh, le sigh.
EDIT:
Haha, a short story to celebrate one card. I agree, thanks for sharing
I don't think we are gonna get Oath of Jaya, I think we are gonna get Jaya-Wan Kenobi.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Bolas gets more out of Vraska, now his *minion*, being the guild master then he would betraying her, which is what he is going to do in anyways with his invasion.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The Kaladeshi seem to see the world from a scientific point of view, and magic, in the traditional sense, is relatively rare. Their technology is magic based, but its techno magic that operates based on predictable rules. I'd argue that they would be generally predisposed to believe that most magic is just an example of technology they have not encountered before or do not yet understand. The inverse of the famous Arthur C Clarke quote in essence, magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced technology. Bring a deflector shield to Theros, the residents will assume it's magic. Bring Gideon to Kaladesh, and the residents will assume his protective magic is a deflector shield.
Second, on the topic of Vraska dating: Vraska is Ravnican. Ravnica is not a medieval world, its more 19th century minus guns (well, minus non magic guns). Dating is a thing on Ravnica. Vraska would not only be familiar with the idea, but it would be her go to word to describe "hanging out with someone to have fun and potentially bone down the line". Ravnicans date. The also go to nightclubs and fancy restaurants, have a regular police force, have indoor plumbing, and have many modern amenities. They have streetlights, sewers, trains (well, giant bugs that serve as trains), videophones, teleporters, and all kinds of crazy techno magic. It's supposed to feel like a city, dating is definitely a thing there.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
This started out as a justification for Vraska talking about dating, and then somehow turned into an explanation for why Ravnica is awesome.
I would say it depends on the plane though. Ravnica, and Kaladesh, sure, but they're supposed to have a modern feel. Dominaria leans closer to traditional fantasy, so I wouldn't expect it as much there. I would be taken aback by seeing it in a Kamigawa, Tarkir, or Alara revisit. Innistrad I expect to feel Victorian or Regency.
But, again, it also depends on what we are talking about. Dominaria is a fully realized world with several continents and cultures, some of which are fantasy tropes and some of which are loosely based on real places. I'd be fine with Dominarians eating tomatoes and drinking coffee, because they have access to a developed trade system spanning the world and fantasy settings generally have flora and fauna, and crops, that mirror earth's, just with fantastical additions (you rarely see a total overhaul like in Morrowind). I wouldn't expect them in Kamigawa because, as far as we've seen, its only fake Japan, or at least fake Japan is isolated. Ditto Innistrad, where outside of perhaps Nephalia all we've seen is fake Germany, and fake Germany doesn't have much contact from other continents (Nephalia, as a Port, might, but outside of the occasional Asian or black person in card art we don't see any outside influence. Wherever those people came from, they don't seem to have brought their culture or any goods with them).
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Esper is practically a cyberpunk realm, and Breya's discovery of the Etherium-making process + the Noble Work's philosophy suggest that Esper's drive to turn every living thing into an artifact isn't going to stop at the borders of the former shard.
That's a fine point except that were talking about Planeswalkers. In the case of plane bound characters your absolutely right. I can see how itt would be offputting for Odric to call for a cup of coffee. On the other hand it doesn't make sense for two Planeswalkers from one of the moat modern planes to change how they would talk to one another just because they're on a plane that mirrors the 16th century Atlantic. In the end I guess its a personal preference thing. I don't much mind how the characters tall, regardless of which plane they're on.
Well, I don't want to say "I told you so", but I told you so. :^)
As an Azor-sceptic I submit to your superior wisdom, oh wise one. Though at least the theory that Ugin is involved wasn't that far from the truth either.
All in all, Ixalans stories (in my humble opinion) had their flaws, particularly in the "Rivals" part, but I liked the world, I loved the character growth for Jace and Vraska, the revelation to where it all leads to (Ravnica, my favorite plane and finally with a serious threat again which hopefully unites the guilds somewhat). Since I'm someone who tries to accentuate the positives, this was actually a rather good follow-up to the bleak Amonkhet storyline which I liked a lot (but after which a more "light-hearted" story was clearly needed). Looking forward to Dominaria and what has changed since the mending (Teferi has grown a beard and someone has built a Weatherlight-like air ship. That's what I've taken out of it for now :D)
Oh, sorry, I was rambling a bit so I wasn't very clear, I was talking about planes characters are from, not about walkers on a foreign plane talking to each other. Jace and Vraska conversing about a coffee date while on Ixalan makes sense. They'd probably check to see if coffee and dates are things on Ixalan before talking about them with natives though. Huatli going off about dinosaurs was mildly confusing to Saheeli, who already understands the whole planeswalker thing, but would be weird to a non planeswalker. How walkers interact with each other should be different than how they interact with bon walkers, which should differ plane by plane, code switching in a way.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
No one is actually speaking English after all.
I think.
Linguistics in fantasy worlds, no matter if medieval-like or steampunk, are weird. Planeswalkers are special, but how anyone from one of the factions of Ixalan understands what folks from another faction are saying? Ravnica is worldwide city, there shouldn't exist single Ravnican language. It kinda is shown in Mazirek's story, but it's still not enough.