I wonder how they are going to handle the bazillion of races and in some cases subraces. I mean red alone has dwarves, goblins, orcs and viashino plus keldons which are visually distinct from other humans.
They probably wont. Theyre only doing the one set on Dominaria right? So they probably won't have room. And with Ixalan showing some tribal elements they might want to hold off on throwing around to many creature types at once.
Gutterstorm: We don't know the fall set in 2018, do we? It is certainly possible that the spring set is Dominaria, we get a core set--hopefully about Magic's past--and then we get a continuing set in Dominaria in the fall. Hopefully we should know by then.
Yeah, when MaRo announced the 3+1 set paradigm, he mentioned that while usually each new set will take place in a new location, sometimes multiple consecutive sets will take place on the same plane if the storyline requires it. The fall 2018 set could also take place on Dominaria, or someplace else, depending on what happens in the story.
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I certainly hope we get a second Dominaria set, though I'm not going to be so greedy for one that it ruins my joy of getting the first one.
Concerning creature types, I think the extreme diversity of Dominaria is the thing that makes it a unique plane now. In comparison, most other planes are pretty singularly focused. What could be interesting would be a "diversity matters" mechanic, like rewarding you for having a bunch of different creature types on the board instead of a single type.
As far as unfinished business goes, I hope the story focuses on the residual effects of all the different stories that have been set on Dominaria. They can check in on Sarpadia, deal more with the Rathi overlay areas, maybe see if somebody has figured out how to make new powerstones...
It seems like it would have behooved them to have said there would be more than one set on Dominaria. Then again since its the 25th anniversary they may spend the whole year there.
I'm curious what Dominaria is like these days. I haven't read the book series since they were new, but between Invasion, Onslaught, and Time Spiral blocks, who's still alive and what business is still unresolved?
I think Armored Cancrix has been the only post TSP glimpse of Dominaria we've gotten. Not much to go on, but I since Rosewater has said it's been a challenge to figure out how to define it I doubt it can tell us anything.
I'd be shocked if at least part of the story wasn't based around the lingering effects of the time rifts. I also think that "Josu Vess, Lichlord" is going to show up as both a card and one of the main antagonists. I'd love to see Teferi but i'm kind of hoping that WOTC saves Squee for later. I think that an immortal goblin w/ a ship that can travel between planes has more than enough story potential for it's own set.
Till then, #Dominariahype
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I'd be shocked if at least part of the story wasn't based around the lingering effects of the time rifts. I also think that "Josu Vess, Lichlord" is going to show up as both a card and one of the main antagonists. I'd love to see Teferi but i'm kind of hoping that WOTC saves Squee for later. I think that an immortal goblin w/ a ship that can travel between planes has more than enough story potential for it's own set.
I think a good mix of modern and old storyline could work. Have Lilianas story and along the way the gatewatch meets a few old faces/we have a few stories that feature the old characters and what they are now up too.
Also (asking as someone who start playing/reading the lore during Alara) who is still alive and/or has a spark? Only one I can think of is Karn.
breakintolife asked: Is the Return to Dominaria going to focus on giving Dominaria a more cohesive identity?
Maro: It is.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I doubt we'll be getting that much focus on Dominaria concentrated over such a short time period. I suspect it will more come to be treated as just "one of the planes" like all the others. Which is good enough for me, as long as we still get tastes of it from time to time. As much as I'd enjoy seeing two Dominaria sets in a row, 3 out of 4 would be too many for me. I don't think they're planning to make it central to Bolas's plot.
Quote from 5colors »
Also (asking as someone who start playing/reading the lore during Alara) who is still alive and/or has a spark? Only one I can think of is Karn.
Someone else could answer more fully I think, but it hasn't been that long since the Mending. Lots of ex-'walkers and immortal characters could still be around: Teferi most prominently, Radha, Jhoira and Jodah, Squee, possibly Multani...likely more that I can't remember. I'd also really like to see some descendants of other characters, such as a young Capashen or a descendant of Tahngarth or Sisay.
breakintolife asked: Is the Return to Dominaria going to focus on giving Dominaria a more cohesive identity?
Maro: It is.
This is a bit worrying for me. They obviously need to pull the setting together a bit since we'll only be there for one set (for now, at least), but I hope they don't end up making the plane feel flat. That being said, for all the crazy things that were going on in Time Spiral block, they still managed to establish a cohesive theme. So there's a reason to be cautiously optimistic.
breakintolife asked: Is the Return to Dominaria going to focus on giving Dominaria a more cohesive identity?
Maro: It is.
This is a bit worrying for me. They obviously need to pull the setting together a bit since we'll only be there for one set (for now, at least), but I hope they don't end up making the plane feel flat. That being said, for all the crazy things that were going on in Time Spiral block, they still managed to establish a cohesive theme. So there's a reason to be cautiously optimistic.
A more cohesive identity doesn't mean homogenizing. It could just as easily mean it's now the pure high fantasy plane.
breakintolife asked: Is the Return to Dominaria going to focus on giving Dominaria a more cohesive identity?
Maro: It is.
This is a bit worrying for me. They obviously need to pull the setting together a bit since we'll only be there for one set (for now, at least), but I hope they don't end up making the plane feel flat. That being said, for all the crazy things that were going on in Time Spiral block, they still managed to establish a cohesive theme. So there's a reason to be cautiously optimistic.
A more cohesive identity doesn't mean homogenizing. It could just as easily mean it's now the pure high fantasy plane.
Or it could mean that the set takes place on one continent or region, so it's a "West Africa Set" on Jamuraa or an "Ice Set" on Terisiare with something something reversed Thaw.
breakintolife asked: Is the Return to Dominaria going to focus on giving Dominaria a more cohesive identity?
Maro: It is.
This is a bit worrying for me. They obviously need to pull the setting together a bit since we'll only be there for one set (for now, at least), but I hope they don't end up making the plane feel flat. That being said, for all the crazy things that were going on in Time Spiral block, they still managed to establish a cohesive theme. So there's a reason to be cautiously optimistic.
A more cohesive identity doesn't mean homogenizing. It could just as easily mean it's now the pure high fantasy plane.
Or it could mean that the set takes place on one continent or region, so it's a "West Africa Set" on Jamuraa or an "Ice Set" on Terisiare with something something reversed Thaw.
i thought of that, but the name would be more than "Dominaria" if that were the case.
breakintolife asked: Is the Return to Dominaria going to focus on giving Dominaria a more cohesive identity?
Maro: It is.
This is a bit worrying for me. They obviously need to pull the setting together a bit since we'll only be there for one set (for now, at least), but I hope they don't end up making the plane feel flat. That being said, for all the crazy things that were going on in Time Spiral block, they still managed to establish a cohesive theme. So there's a reason to be cautiously optimistic.
A more cohesive identity doesn't mean homogenizing. It could just as easily mean it's now the pure high fantasy plane.
Or it could mean that the set takes place on one continent or region, so it's a "West Africa Set" on Jamuraa or an "Ice Set" on Terisiare with something something reversed Thaw.
That's unlikely. Maro said that they did a return as they ahd finally figured out how to do Dominaria, which implies that they intended to feature the entire plane if they ever did a return.
I found this interesting and would love the folks' here's take:
Quote from Mark Rosewater »
Quote from reiversmusings asked: »
Is giving Dominaria a "cohesive identity" code for "turning it into a one trick pony" as you've been doing for every world you've invented in the post-8th edition era? Honestly, if that's the plan I'm fairly certain most of the people who've wanted you to go back would prefer you just not. Part of Dominaria's charm is being an actual developed world with different cultures.
All our worlds have depth. Each one has a cosmology with different creatures and cultures. A world guide about all the components is crafted for each world.
The people who love calling it a “World of Hats” are doing the same disservice as the people calling Jace a “Mary Sue”. It’s a snarky undermining of the incredible amount of hard work done by our creative team to make cool new worlds.
What our worlds are not are hodgepodge worlds with disparate parts that have no connection with one another.
“But that’s the way the real world is.” There’s a difference between what works in the real world and what works in stories. Real life is often unbelievable through the lens of story. I had umpteen writing classes drive this point home.
And even when our worlds have more distinction between the parts, Alara and Tarkir as examples, there’s a relationship between the parts.
There was no reason for Ice Age and Mirage to be on the same plane other than laziness on our part. Them co-existing on the same world did little to enhance one another.
When you have a Multiverse, it’s important that you craft your worlds so that the players can remember them, that they have some kind of identity. Star Wars and Star Trek treating their worlds like this was not a fluke but an important means to build a world where the pieces were memorable.
Here’s my counter argument to those who feel that worlds with lots of unconnected elements make for better worlds. Imagine we just clumped two consecutive worlds together. Amonkhet and a Kaladesh are one world and Innistrad and Zendikar are one world. And Tarkir and Theros.
Have we just made better worlds? Is part of the world optimistic steam punk with an Indian vibe and the other Bolas-crafted Egyptian inspired world, somehow make the world more sophisticated? Or is it just more cluttered and less distinct?
The reason it took us so long to return to Dominaria is we wanted to do it right. We wanted to be respectful of what the world was but bring to it a modern sensibility of being a world that had a cohesive identity rather than a hodgepodge of unrelated elements.
We did it though and in a way that is both respectful of what came before and productive in moving forward with a world that becomes part of our stable of worlds that doesn’t stick out like a sore thumb. Old fans, please have faith. We too love Dominaria.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Maybe this is sorta Wizards' fault because even with Plane Shift and the art books there is still not a lot of exposure to the extent of which they build a world, but I feel like the criticism that the worlds they've been making aren't deep or interesting is a bit unfair. Kaladesh gets it a lot, but even if you just read the Plane Shift you see the depth of the world. The less technologically advanced countryside, the different factions of elves, some of the specific areas with a history outside the areas of focus in the story, such as the urban legend of a greenhouse of poisonous plants in Ghirapur that appears to assassins. Or the people behind the aether technology advances of the world as it is now. We just cant see all of this because there is a story that isnt always about the entire plane, or its in the past, or whatever. Even Amonkhet which is also focused on a singular area, you have a sense that there is a wide world lost to time that we just don't see in the wastes.
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They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
I agree with Maro in general; the person asking a question is being a bit harsh. But I also think that Wizards has been generalizing and streamlining their worlds a bit too much lately. For me, there is such a thing as a world being "too accessible". Kaladesh is a good example; the sense of scale just isn't there for me. I like the worlds Wizards build, but since about Theros block I can't lose myself in them anymore because when I look through all the cards in a set at the end of the spoiler season, I feel like I pretty much know everything about that world already. I get that they wanted to focus on Ghirapur and the Inventor's Fair, but did they really have to put that setting on so many cards? It doesn't matter how intricate the world in your styleguide is if you don't convey that incricacy through the cards. I don't think it would've hurt too much to show some other cities or regions.
I've said this before, but I feel that Time Spiral was a very good mix of "cohesive identity" and "(thematic) chaos". Most of the cards feel like they belong together visually and mechanically, but there are all kinds of names and references (races, tribes, regions, other places, events...) strewn about in flavor texts and card names, which makes the world feel big. The "Time Spiral style" is probably too chaotic for Wizards right now. But I really hope they do new Dominaria in a similar way and bring the different cards together under an overarching , but rather abstract theme.
The most obvious theme I can think of for the return to Dominaria is "renewal". In Future Sight, there already were first signs of better times to come (Llanowar Reborn), and I think "new Dominara" could be characterized by a careful optimism - the world is still beaten down and sort of worn out, but also starting to rebuild. Rather than focusing on pure survival, the inhabitants all over the plane show constructive efforts with the goal of building a new world, filling power vacuums etc.
I think I would just caution everyone to remember that at least on the R&D side, you've still got people who've been with the game since the beginning, AND they've brought back Richard Garfield to work on it. These are people who really care about Dominaria, so give them at least some benefit of the doubt.
Personally, I think focusing on Dominaria as the high fantasy plane would be best. All the elements are there, with the specific magic flavor. You can even focus on how the world has a storied history without always having to get into that storied history. A plane of resolute people standing guard against the darkness that has consumed it so often. Dominaria's cultures basically a collection of the various fantasy culture tropes out there anyway, so embrace it. You can still cover the breadth of the world in gameplay mechanics.
Here’s my counter argument to those who feel that worlds with lots of unconnected elements make for better worlds. Imagine we just clumped two consecutive worlds together. Amonkhet and a Kaladesh are one world and Innistrad and Zendikar are one world. And Tarkir and Theros.
Have we just made better worlds? Is part of the world optimistic steam punk with an Indian vibe and the other Bolas-crafted Egyptian inspired world, somehow make the world more sophisticated? Or is it just more cluttered and less distinct?
This is one of my pet peeves of mine when people call Dominaria so vast and varied. It's only like that, because new settings had no other place to be dumped to prior to Mirrodin. I mean all the other planes that were featured alongside Dominaria were planes of hats as well: Phyrexia, Serra's Realm, Rabiah. Heck, even Ulgrotha which was less straight-forward than the others felt like you could walk the entire plane by foot, just like Innistrad.
However, I do wish that Wizards would treat planes like actual planes and not just some minor locations. I mean Kaladesh is literally just a city and three settlements? Innistrad is the size of my backyard? (Amonkhet gets an excuse, because there's at least an explanation why Naktamun is the only city left.) They really need to treat more planes like Tarkir and Zendikar, where you have a sense of scale. (For the record, I don't consider Zendikar particularly deep. Just having a bunch of random, named locations with a snippet of background information unconnected to the rest of the world doesn't make it a deep setting, but at least it was vast.)
Would it really have hurt them if Kaladesh was more than just Ghirapur? Or Innistrad more than one continent/island? They can still focus on the plot location of the week, but at least establish other locations as existing. Because of they don't we'll never see that, because during a return players expect to return to a plane, not see something new, or so Wizards thinks. Case in point: Return to Innistrad which did nothing to broaden the plane.
However, I do have to disagree with Maro on the Star Wars and Star Trek simile. 'Trek did the planet of hats trope, because one episode wasn't enough to develop a realistic setting and conveying the sense of scale of a planet. They needed to introduce and solve the conflict in one episode and then move to the next encounter in the next one. There is literally no time to flesh out a setting to semi-realistic standards. As for 'Wars, well, it's less sci-fi and more space fantasy, so having entire planets be covered in jungle without any oceans to provide humidity or whatever doesn't really matter. Star Wars doesn't care about realism on the most basic level, why should it actually build workable planets. (Plus, the screentime of a planet is also a big factor here.) Meanwhile Wizards had an entire year to plan and flesh out a world. Now they have on average half a year (if we revisit worlds roughly half of the time) to build one and a half worlds (again on average). I'm not sure that's feasible in the long run and I expect either the world building quality to suffer or wizards actually scaling up the revisit ratio.
As someone who started Magic in Invasion and quit after the Kamahl story finished. Then came back in Zendikar. Feeling hyped by this return to Dominaria... the Invasion story really got me into this game. Gerrard and the crew of Skyship Weatherlight.. fighting to save people from the super villains - the phyrexian monster robots. Oh, the nostalgia. >___<
Well, I don't think Dominaria is going to be the 'high fantasy' plane. Mainly because it wouldn't be true to the source material. Ice Age was much more like Hyborian Age than High Fantasy, Mirage was actually too realistic for High Fantasy, the whole Weatherlight Saga (when it was in Dominaria) doesn't feel much like High Fantasy... more like Fantasy Space Opera...
Then you have the Brothers War which was... two Artificers fighting it out with a bunch of magical robots... that doesn't sound like High Fantasy, narratively, to me.
Invasion was basically Borg-like aliens invading Dominaria... again not too High Fantasy. And Time Spiral was clearly post-apocalyptic land.
About the only part that did feel High Fantasy to me was Sarpadia, and likely Legends which doesn't have a narrative or plot at all.
Maybe I have a different view of High Fantasy than others do, or something. I dunno. But I can't see Dominaria as High Fantasy land.
I love Dominaria, but I don't think 'High Fantasy Land' when I think of it.
IMO, Sarpadia wasn't even high fantasy, it was depressing, ruined low fantasy. The Dark and Fallen Empires have a very grim tone (not to mention poor designs. :p) And considering Legends mostly retroactively took place on Madara, there's sort of high fantasy there, but with a lot of other trappings: Bolas's Japanese-style court for example.
The most High Fantasy Setting that Magic has ever had is, uh. Bant.
I'm not that familiar with Sarpadia, but I don't know if I would describe it as "(traditional) High Fantasy" - having lobsters and thrulls as two of the "main factions" is a bit too out there to fit the description, I'd say.
They probably wont. Theyre only doing the one set on Dominaria right? So they probably won't have room. And with Ixalan showing some tribal elements they might want to hold off on throwing around to many creature types at once.
Concerning creature types, I think the extreme diversity of Dominaria is the thing that makes it a unique plane now. In comparison, most other planes are pretty singularly focused. What could be interesting would be a "diversity matters" mechanic, like rewarding you for having a bunch of different creature types on the board instead of a single type.
As far as unfinished business goes, I hope the story focuses on the residual effects of all the different stories that have been set on Dominaria. They can check in on Sarpadia, deal more with the Rathi overlay areas, maybe see if somebody has figured out how to make new powerstones...
I think Armored Cancrix has been the only post TSP glimpse of Dominaria we've gotten. Not much to go on, but I since Rosewater has said it's been a challenge to figure out how to define it I doubt it can tell us anything.
Till then, #Dominariahype
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
+1 for Josu Vess!
Also (asking as someone who start playing/reading the lore during Alara) who is still alive and/or has a spark? Only one I can think of is Karn.
Also it looks like they testing out giving Dominaria an identity;
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/162018375213/is-the-return-to-dominaria-going-to-focus-on
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Someone else could answer more fully I think, but it hasn't been that long since the Mending. Lots of ex-'walkers and immortal characters could still be around: Teferi most prominently, Radha, Jhoira and Jodah, Squee, possibly Multani...likely more that I can't remember. I'd also really like to see some descendants of other characters, such as a young Capashen or a descendant of Tahngarth or Sisay.
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Or it could mean that the set takes place on one continent or region, so it's a "West Africa Set" on Jamuraa or an "Ice Set" on Terisiare with something something reversed Thaw.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
That's unlikely. Maro said that they did a return as they ahd finally figured out how to do Dominaria, which implies that they intended to feature the entire plane if they ever did a return.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
But the people behind the barrier knew.
I've said this before, but I feel that Time Spiral was a very good mix of "cohesive identity" and "(thematic) chaos". Most of the cards feel like they belong together visually and mechanically, but there are all kinds of names and references (races, tribes, regions, other places, events...) strewn about in flavor texts and card names, which makes the world feel big. The "Time Spiral style" is probably too chaotic for Wizards right now. But I really hope they do new Dominaria in a similar way and bring the different cards together under an overarching , but rather abstract theme.
The most obvious theme I can think of for the return to Dominaria is "renewal". In Future Sight, there already were first signs of better times to come (Llanowar Reborn), and I think "new Dominara" could be characterized by a careful optimism - the world is still beaten down and sort of worn out, but also starting to rebuild. Rather than focusing on pure survival, the inhabitants all over the plane show constructive efforts with the goal of building a new world, filling power vacuums etc.
Personally, I think focusing on Dominaria as the high fantasy plane would be best. All the elements are there, with the specific magic flavor. You can even focus on how the world has a storied history without always having to get into that storied history. A plane of resolute people standing guard against the darkness that has consumed it so often. Dominaria's cultures basically a collection of the various fantasy culture tropes out there anyway, so embrace it. You can still cover the breadth of the world in gameplay mechanics.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
This is one of my pet peeves of mine when people call Dominaria so vast and varied. It's only like that, because new settings had no other place to be dumped to prior to Mirrodin. I mean all the other planes that were featured alongside Dominaria were planes of hats as well: Phyrexia, Serra's Realm, Rabiah. Heck, even Ulgrotha which was less straight-forward than the others felt like you could walk the entire plane by foot, just like Innistrad.
However, I do wish that Wizards would treat planes like actual planes and not just some minor locations. I mean Kaladesh is literally just a city and three settlements? Innistrad is the size of my backyard? (Amonkhet gets an excuse, because there's at least an explanation why Naktamun is the only city left.) They really need to treat more planes like Tarkir and Zendikar, where you have a sense of scale. (For the record, I don't consider Zendikar particularly deep. Just having a bunch of random, named locations with a snippet of background information unconnected to the rest of the world doesn't make it a deep setting, but at least it was vast.)
Would it really have hurt them if Kaladesh was more than just Ghirapur? Or Innistrad more than one continent/island? They can still focus on the plot location of the week, but at least establish other locations as existing. Because of they don't we'll never see that, because during a return players expect to return to a plane, not see something new, or so Wizards thinks. Case in point: Return to Innistrad which did nothing to broaden the plane.
However, I do have to disagree with Maro on the Star Wars and Star Trek simile. 'Trek did the planet of hats trope, because one episode wasn't enough to develop a realistic setting and conveying the sense of scale of a planet. They needed to introduce and solve the conflict in one episode and then move to the next encounter in the next one. There is literally no time to flesh out a setting to semi-realistic standards. As for 'Wars, well, it's less sci-fi and more space fantasy, so having entire planets be covered in jungle without any oceans to provide humidity or whatever doesn't really matter. Star Wars doesn't care about realism on the most basic level, why should it actually build workable planets. (Plus, the screentime of a planet is also a big factor here.) Meanwhile Wizards had an entire year to plan and flesh out a world. Now they have on average half a year (if we revisit worlds roughly half of the time) to build one and a half worlds (again on average). I'm not sure that's feasible in the long run and I expect either the world building quality to suffer or wizards actually scaling up the revisit ratio.
And good old Mr. Garfield is back too.
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Then you have the Brothers War which was... two Artificers fighting it out with a bunch of magical robots... that doesn't sound like High Fantasy, narratively, to me.
Invasion was basically Borg-like aliens invading Dominaria... again not too High Fantasy. And Time Spiral was clearly post-apocalyptic land.
About the only part that did feel High Fantasy to me was Sarpadia, and likely Legends which doesn't have a narrative or plot at all.
Maybe I have a different view of High Fantasy than others do, or something. I dunno. But I can't see Dominaria as High Fantasy land.
I love Dominaria, but I don't think 'High Fantasy Land' when I think of it.
The most High Fantasy Setting that Magic has ever had is, uh. Bant.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
When I think of High Fantasy in Magic, I think of Shandalar, because that's where we were getting lots of "generically flavoured" cards from during the later core sets (Archangel of Thune, Ring of Evos Isle, Kalonian Behemoth, Hoarding Dragon)...
I think if you want to world-build a new Dominaria, you really need to draw on the apocalyptic events in Time Spiral and extrapolate from there.
You're extremely right. Frankly I wouldn't mind seeing one standalone Shandalar set that really leaned into these tropes.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝