MTG Salvation

Is there a chance that Bolas hasn't intimated to Ral that Bolas and Jace are enemies? Bolas doesn't have to mention the Gatewatch to Ral, or that he hates Jace. If Bolas is masterminding, he may not be revealing long-term plans to Ral. If this is the case, I'd love to see Ral show up where Bolas sends him, only to run into Jace again. Bolas may also not know that Jace and Ral were working together. This may add some nice complexities to the situation.

Quote from Zazdor »

Is there a chance that Bolas hasn't intimated to Ral that Bolas and Jace are enemies? Bolas doesn't have to mention the Gatewatch to Ral, or that he hates Jace. If Bolas is masterminding, he may not be revealing long-term plans to Ral. If this is the case, I'd love to see Ral show up where Bolas sends him, only to run into Jace again. Bolas may also not know that Jace and Ral were working together. This may add some nice complexities to the situation.

Eeehhhhh. I dont know. The "friendship" between Jace and Ral is overblown. They worked together out of necessecity. So that Niv wouldn't find out about walkers. But if Ral is honestly thrall to Bolas and not begrudgingly working for him the way he does with Niv I don't imagine Ral would allow Jace to interfere with his masters plans regardless of what Ral knows. And even if he doesn't like working for Niv He's not going to risk his own life by allowing Jace to screw with Bolas' plans.

However, I think it all depends on what Bolas's plans for/with Ral are. Ral may not know what Bolas's grand scheme is. Perhaps Project Lightning Bug is all Bolas wants of Ral, and Ral is allowed to go about his other plans.

I don't know. When I read Project Lightningbug (that was the story in which Gideon did his stake out at the end, right?) I got the feeling that there was genuine emotion/connection between the two and that they were bonding. Jace placing his hand on Ral's wrist...the feels man, the feels.

I love this twist. I hope it pays off. Ral has a lot of potential to be a very interesting character because of how he was portrayed in previous stories.

I believe that the Necropolis predated Bolas and may have been a place where the dead could be kept safe from the curse of wandering. Bolas took that and corrupted it to become a storage locker for God's and eternals. He also corrupted all 8 gods, which were made of Leyline, 3 fully corrupted and 5 partially (and impermanently).

Also, and I'm not saying that this is the case, but Ral could genuinely like Jace yet still be knowingly working against him. Enemies that like each other but who happen to be on different sides is a somewhat common trope that can arise for many reasons, from ideological (two friends who fight on different sides of a civil war), to another villain holding something over a character (Vin Diesel in Fast 8), temperamental differences (two similar characters that get along, one evil or amoral one good, like Batman and Talia or Catwoman), "it's just business", etc.

Of course, Real could be playing Jace, but actually liking each other wouldn't preclude Ral from working to destroy Jace.

Quote from Onering »

I believe that the Necropolis predated Bolas and may have been a place where the dead could be kept safe from the curse of wandering. Bolas took that and corrupted it to become a storage locker for God's and eternals. He also corrupted all 8 gods, which were made of Leyline, 3 fully corrupted and 5 partially (and impermanently).

I'd add that Bontu actually knew what was going on, but supported Bolas's stranglehold on her siblings and the denizens of Naktamun out of fear of Bolas's power.

I wonder why Bolas didn't just fully corrupt 7 of the gods (he seems to like that number, based on his cards) and left only Hazoret partially corrupted because of his "You'll be the one to stabby stabby your children because I'm a spiteful guy" thing. Were the 5 Trials really that necessary?

As for Ral, I'd like to believe that Bolas has something over him. Maybe he threatened to lay waste to Ravnica, or maybe he threatened to let it slip to Niv (indirectly) that walkers exist and Ral is one of them.

Quote from Etherium Sage »

I wonder why Bolas didn't just fully corrupt 7 of the gods (he seems to like that number, based on his cards) and left only Hazoret partially corrupted because of his "You'll be the one to stabby stabby your children because I'm a spiteful guy" thing. Were the 5 Trials really that necessary?

The eternal and anointed can't be programed to do things they hadn't learned in life, in order to make his army Bolas needed the cream of the crop (if you mind the pun). The trails where the training and culling of the people. The art book says he basically instilled has twisted versions of what they did in the trials;

Tacitcal- W
Adapatable -U
Resilient -G
Ruthless -B
Fanatical- R

Hello, I just had my own thought on the end of Amonkhet. Mostly, I think it was pretty cool, but that a few things should have been slightly different. Gidgeon should maybe have been the first target, not because he was the greatest threat but because it would be the cruelest to leave him unaware of the others fates. Secondly, really Lilliana should have been the last, just good sense to save the recruitment/intimidation to the end when nobody is around to know of the betrayal, especially if for a moment she is consumed by anger and despair, and he breaks that. The idea of Nicol Bolas partially fixing Jace's memories to reveal only the death of his master would have been cool.

Also, for a return to Amonkhet what would be cool is if the plot in addition to the ruined plane feel that it would also be a quest to discover a way to revitalize the plane, possibly by reigniting the Luxa. It would make some sense to draw further from aspects of Exodus (the bible Exodus), but that could be awkward.

Those are both good points. Though I think it would really depend on his priorities. For the Gidgeon thing, I was suggesting that Bolas could have tried the same ultimatum on Gideon from the start, it would be a harder sell, but more painful if it worked.

Liliana was definitely more effective done early. It set the others on a serious tilt, especially Chandra. Done last it would have had the same effect on Lili but be less damaging to the other three.

If he saved lily for last there wouldn't have been a defeat for her. She wouldn't hang out for even one second past the last other member leaving. Also if you start with Gideon you probably kill him because he would never leave while there was still a chance his friends could be harmed. Which either deals a heavier blow to the gatewatch or forces you to kill all of them. While the order could be shaken up Gideon almost certainly had to be last and Lilly couldn't be last.

The thing about Liliana is that she knew that the others stood no chance, and she herself didn't want to risk taking him on. The Chain Veil might have been effective, but it wasn't 100% certain, and she'd pay the price if she was wrong. So black being as pragmatic as it typically is, she tried to get the others to acknowledge this, leave the plane and formulate a new plan.

Unfortunately, the others were too thick-headed, so she felt she had no choice but to submit to Bolas. This is why I can't sympathize with Chandra, Gideon and Nissa, because they let their emotions severely cloud their judgment, especially Gideon who's supposed to be a better tactician/strategist than that.

Agree with all these points. Gideon definitely had to go last, and Liliana had to go early. I would add, though, that Jace had to go before Liliana. He was both Lili's main connection to the rest of the GW, and the most rational member, therefore most likely to see things Lili's way and attempt to convince the others to see things her way. Purely on this basis, the order had to be Jace, Liliana, Chandra or Nissa, the third GW lady, Gideon. Finally, Chandra would be at her most emotional, and therefore most predictable, immediately after Lili's "betrayal," so the sensible moment for Bolas to deal with her would be immediately after the necromancer's departure. So the most sensible order for Bolas to take out our heroes would be Jace, Liliana, Chandra, Nissa, Gideon, exactly as in the story. They really did think it out.

I wonder how Bolas would have dealt with Jace if the latter didn't try to touch Bolas's mind.

So what ever happened to the "storyline" of Nissa staying on Amonkhet and helping the people recover after Bolas's destruction of Naktamun? Was/is that even a thing? I only read Hour of Devastation lately and skipped some stories before that, maybe it came up somewhere. It certainly seems to be implied on cards like Beneath the Sands or Sidewinder Naga.

Quote from soramaro »

So what ever happened to the "storyline" of Nissa staying on Amonkhet and helping the people recover after Bolas's destruction of Naktamun? Was/is that even a thing? I only read Hour of Devastation lately and skipped some stories before that, maybe it came up somewhere. It certainly seems to be implied on cards like Beneath the Sands or Sidewinder Naga.

It was also in the art book IIRC, but I'm not entirely sure what to think about that at this point, especially since Nissa's tone shortly before she abandoned ship implied that she gave up on Amonkhet.

Going back to Ral being in league with Bolas:

I read a bit that Ixalan plane has an unusual property that, at worst, forbids anyone from planeswalking out of it.

If this really is the case, doesn't that pretty much means the Guildpact will NEVER return to Ravnica, ever? Which would mean then that Ravnica is pretty going to fall to Bolas' control now that he has an agent who, as far as I know, is all to eager to fill in the gap. Or worse?

Quote from magac »

Going back to Ral being in league with Bolas:

I read a bit that Ixalan plane has an unusual property that, at worst, forbids anyone from planeswalking out of it.

If this really is the case, doesn't that pretty much means the Guildpact will NEVER return to Ravnica, ever? Which would mean then that Ravnica is pretty going to fall to Bolas' control now that he has an agent who, as far as I know, is all to eager to fill in the gap. Or worse?

I have a sneaking suspicion Jace is going to find a way out of Ixalan...

Beyond that there wasn't really any way to know for certain that Jace would end up walking there. Jace could have gone to any other plane in the multiverse, or Bolas could have simply killed him. In fact, if the goal was control of Ravnica killing him would have made more sense.

I honestly doubt it'll take another 5 years to see Ravnica again.

Quote from OathboundOne »

I honestly doubt it'll take another 5 years to see Ravnica again.

With so many plot threads tied to Ravnica (Ral being an agent of Bolas, Teysa vs Obzedat, Vraska's hostile take-over of the Golgari and Jace not being there for so long), I think it should be after Dominaria.

Quote from FourDogsInAHorseSuit »

Three Sets for the Old Blocks under old style,
Seven sets the eternal formats, their cards stand-alone,
Nine sets duel decks with room to grow,
One set for the for the God-Pharoh to return home,
To break apart the gatewatch, and set-up their rise.
One set to highlight them all, One set to find them,
One set to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of tarkir where Elder Dragons die.

Are you saying that Tarkir will be important to the Gatewatch in the future?