A few posters have been guessing that the Raven Man is actually Lim-Dûl. What is that theory based on? I am no storyline Guru but from what I've read on the Wiki the artifact on Shandalar holding his spirit has been destroyed. Liliana was living on Dominaria when she first encountered the Raven Man. How would Lim-Dûl's essence possibly travel from Shandalar to Dominaria, finds someone with a latent spark to possess (a healer no less, while Lim-Dûl was a necromancer?). And why would he tolerate Liliana's own spirit in the body and not just posess her 100% once she sparked?
Whatever of whoever he is, he apparently has a great interest in Liliana breaking the contract with her Demmonic Masters and getting rid of the Chain Veil. So his plot will probably only become apparent when Liliana is truly free. Whether that is also negative for Liliana remains to be seen (though for the sake of interesting storytelling it probably will).
Last but not least, AFAIK Liliana's contract with the Demons is what prevents her from aging. What's to say she will not instantly die of old age once all Demonic masters are dead?
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4) The fact that she is a planeswalker, who cannot die of old age, says she won't die of old age.
We have every reason to believe the exact opposite of this. The planeswalkers who have survive since the mending all have some means of fighting off old age, almost explicitly because they will die of old age without their oldwalker powers.
Ah damn, forgot about that line. Though could be another lie fed to amonkhet by bolas. Don't think it is a lie though... which makes me a bit sad as I kinda liked my idea.
Figuring out what happened to missing gods is probably very important for the storyline and reversing their misfortunes is probably one of the few outs our gatewatch has.
i hope bolas fed them to Razaketh or something. would neatly give the watch an excuse to fight him.
Finding out what happened to them? Bolas killed them. I mean not explicitly stated but come on. I stick by what I said. The other three gods are not important.
The Gatewatch have nothing to do with the destroying of the hekma. It says in the Accounting of Hours that when the God-Pharoah returns he will destroy it.
Ah damn, forgot about that line. Though could be another lie fed to amonkhet by bolas. Don't think it is a lie though... which makes me a bit sad as I kinda liked my idea.
Figuring out what happened to missing gods is probably very important for the storyline and reversing their misfortunes is probably one of the few outs our gatewatch has.
i hope bolas fed them to Razaketh or something. would neatly give the watch an excuse to fight him.
Why would Bolas feeding the missing 3 gods to Razaketh make the jacewatch fight ...anybody? On general principle?
While I have to agree with you that Bolas killed them, a part of me hopes we get mnulti-colour Apophis, Set and Ra, or whatever other three you might consider as important.
I'll try to think this over a bunch, but what if the place is not a plwaneswalker farm but a look for one specific sort of walker?
It also seems like the random nature of a planeswalker's first 'walk, when his spark first flares, precludes any sort of control.
A friend of mine reckons that they come back to Amonkhet (the new walkers) out of loyalty for Bolas. How do we even know they do so? And on top of that, if a planeswalker first travels, his flare takes him out of harm's way. But what about the second time? We've no such info. So what if a planeswalker bites the big one before he even comes back? And what if he doesn't even WANT to come back?
Also, Bolas destroying the Hekma doesn't seem like him in the sense that Bolas doesn't seem the kind of guy to take his ball and go home. Or, perhaps a better analogy, knocking over the building blocks and then going home. He's evil and a mastermind, but if he truly destroys the entire plane in a display of "If I can't have it..!" then I won't get the tattoo of his symbol because then he'll truly have become Dr Claw from Inspector Gadget.
The guy tried to destroy Alara because he felt like it. I kind of doubt the Hekma is integral to his plan past this point, so his destroying it seems fitting for now. The very, very best I can see Bolas doing with destroying the Hekma and having a purpose for it beyond some sort of plot-related reason is that he destroys it to distract the Gatewatch while he does whatever he's doing. But it's Bolas, he will blow up planes for no reason except because he feels like it.
And I have mixed feelings on Amonkhet. We know that this needs to be a loss for the Gatewatch. But at the same time Egypt seems like a really popular trope with lots of potential space. And they usually build planes now with a built in return in case it gets popular enough to justify it. Seems hard to imagine they'd stop doing that with just Amonkhet.
And I have mixed feelings on Amonkhet. We know that this needs to be a loss for the Gatewatch. But at the same time Egypt seems like a really popular trope with lots of potential space. And they usually build planes now with a built in return in case it gets popular enough to justify it. Seems hard to imagine they'd stop doing that with just Amonkhet.
Could be that the Gatewatch are being beat by Bolas until somehow the gods are freed from Bolas and are able to drive him away (taking Gideon with him if the slavemind theoryis true) and the gods retake control of the plane. The gatewatch still loose since they couldn't beat Bolas (and who got whatever he wanted from Amonkhet) but the plane is safe and with the gods in control it opens up a return to see how the plane is re-building. Also nicely mimics the first story in Amonkhet.
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Looks like they are trying to show us Nissa's new blue side. There's a lot to parse through here in the trial.
I wonder if the Gatewatch is going to end up passing all the trials as a team or something, allowing them to pass through the gate and face off against the demon.
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Woof. Lot to unpack here. Is Emrakul really providing spiritual guidance to the Gatewatch remotely? This is the second time "Emeria" has shown up in a vision. Even the chess metaphor was carried through from Jace's journey to the center of the mind.
Hmmm...
we've been making theories of, if one of the Gatewatch were to turn on them in Amonkhet, which one would it be?
we've seen arguments for Lilliana (naturally), Gideon and Chandra.
But what if the traitor turns out to be Nissa? what if she is the one that has been corrupted by Bolas?
her thinking she should be the master instead of the puppet might actually hint at that.
Woof. Lot to unpack here. Is Emrakul really providing spiritual guidance to the Gatewatch remotely? This is the second time "Emeria" has shown up in a vision. Even the chess metaphor was carried through from Jace's journey to the center of the mind.
Beginning to wonder if they are going trying to set Emrakul up as an anti-hero. Basically, force of nature vs. force of evil (Bolas). It seems to me that she locked herself away as a form of preservation and is now influencing the gatewatch thoughtfully, to prepare them to fight (or perhaps just weaken the equal threat). Perhaps when she entered Jace's mind she became aware of the blight that is Bolas and his schemes...
I dunno, it feels like a corny stretch...but I also see it happening. Turning a once prominent (thought to be evil) threat into an ally...
"She ain't happy without a good leyline. This is a leyline, that is a leyline."
- The Mummy Returns, 2001
I might have misquoted.
But seriously. What *isn't* going to be leylines? "But as powerful as the magic was, it was still composed of leylines." So the Trial of Knowledge is made of leylines? "The God of Knowledge was made of leylines." WHA?!
I had to stop reading after that one line and think for a while. Jesus. Everything has to be leylines to make Nissa useful or something? What?
The other odds and ends about the history/fate of Amonkhet was cool, but this leyline stuff, sweet Mary Margaret.
That's not true. If I recall correctly, he tried to blow it up to test his powers. Hardly "because he felt like it".
Yes it was. Ajani even tells him he doesn't have to destroy ALara, Bolas could just leave. Bolas then basically said "nah I think I'm going to flex my muscles and blow this place up for the lols". Remember Bolas is grixis colors, yes he has all the plotting the shadows mastermind stuff going on for his UB side, but he's also a dragon, emotional and will do things just because he feels like it (and probity to show that he can.
That aside, I had to read this story more than a few times to try and piece everything together. Wonder if that's intentional...
I think so this weeks story was pretty dense and is a maze of symbolism. Their is a lot to unpack tbh. Looking like Nissa is the key to "fixing the gods'. Also IIRC all the gatewatch+Tamiyo where mind linked with Jace when he talked to Emrakul so I been reading as Nissa talking to her as a manifestation of the part of her mind that was linked up to Jace.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
"She ain't happy without a good leyline. This is a leyline, that is a leyline."
- The Mummy Returns, 2001
I might have misquoted.
But seriously. What *isn't* going to be leylines? "But as powerful as the magic was, it was still composed of leylines." So the Trial of Knowledge is made of leylines? "The God of Knowledge was made of leylines." WHA?!
I had to stop reading after that one line and think for a while. Jesus. Everything has to be leylines to make Nissa useful or something? What?
The other odds and ends about the history/fate of Amonkhet was cool, but this leyline stuff, sweet Mary Margaret.
And once you dig deeper, you'll find that even leylines are measured in midichlorians
I did like this story, though I had to gloss over the nightmare and illusion section in the beginning of the Trial. I get what the author was shooting for though. Overall, I liked that Nissa was having visions of Emrakul during the Trial that actually shielded her mind and led to her break through. I do find this interesting b/c it could be Em communicating between worlds, or that a mental imprint on Nissa's mind is being a benefit, not corruption. Unless that imprint is corrupting Nissa to not just gain self confidence, but to believe she is too powerful, setting her up for a fall. I did not expect the Amonkhet's story to be this Nissa centric, but it's not bad.
I also enjoyed the brief imagery of Bolas taking over the plane. I wonder if he 'ate' the first three gods to absorb their divine power and extend his life. I also liked the image of the long string of dark worlds ending with Amonkhet representing the thousands of worlds Bolas either destroyed, conquered, or 'ate' in his thousands of years of existence. Looking forward to next week to see what happens next.
It's interesting that they opted to present Nicol Bolas's conquest of Amonkhet through difficult-to-interpret symbolism rather than straightforward narrative. I appreciate the attempt, though I think it could have been performed a little better than it was here.
Looks like the clues are beginning to point more to the idea that Bolas is mining the entire plane out as a power source, not using it as a planeswalker factory. I hope Hour of Devastation gives him a nice big super-villain monologue scene to lay out his glorious master plan.
This story was tasked with illustrating Nissa's shift into Blue, which I thought was fairly well done. She's still much more fundamentally Green in her approach, though, intuitive rather than analytical. I guess her Blue aspect is about manipulating the essential structures of things through leylines, or gaining knowledge.
But the leyline thing...it's like they're setting up "leylines" to be the fundamental way in which mana interacts with planes. Which I guess could be okay, but it seems like a pretty major change to the way mana has been presented throughout the history of the setting. I wonder what Nissa would make of how mana works on Dominaria, or on an artificial plane like New Phyrexia? I wish instead of this leyline business they'd get back to talking about the colors of mana a little more.
Also -- how many more of these weekly stories are we getting for this set? I'm surprised that they haven't spent more time on Gideon, since he seems to have the biggest character arc. It seems to me that they're trying to spread the focus out to each member of the Gatewatch evenly, which is a change from Kaladesh's focus on Chandra and Shadows' focus on Jace. I don't think it's working as well as a Gideon-centric story would have worked.
Could the 3 Eldrazi titans have something to do with the 3 missing gods? I know its a stretch and the only thing I'm really going on here is the number 3. Does the timeline even allow for that to be a possibility? I'm just imagining that like 1000 years ago (or whenever) Bolas maybe came to Amonkhet and did something to the 3 missing gods that warped them and cast them off into the blind eternities. I know its a stretch but I just wanted to put it out there and see what people think. I sure am glad these forums have anti-flaming rules, because this post could get me flamed hardcore.
Edit: Ugin seemed to think they were older than time, but even he admitted that his knowledge of the Eldrazi was limited.
But the leyline thing...it's like they're setting up "leylines" to be the fundamental way in which mana interacts with planes. Which I guess could be okay, but it seems like a pretty major change to the way mana has been presented throughout the history of the setting. I wonder what Nissa would make of how mana works on Dominaria, or on an artificial plane like New Phyrexia? I wish instead of this leyline business they'd get back to talking about the colors of mana a little more.
I agree with this point, and would add that this 'Kefnet is leylines' thing is conceptually frustrating. When I first heard of leylines, they stretched in patterns over our Earth. Massive 'energy' lines. So when they brought up leylines on Zendikar, okay, I dig. I can visualize it. The plane is full of mana and energy. Using it as a net? Okay, I get it. We're still talking lines across a plane connected by important points, whatever those points might be.
Same, more or less, on Innistrad and Kaladesh.
Now...I'm to be made to believe that these plane/planet-wide grids of mana/energy...are now diminutive, such as to be contained within a creature...and thus creating that creature? Conceptually, it doesn't make sense in my brain and doesn't sit well. It seemed like a crewtion of the author/Wizards to allow Nissa to influence a god (on the same, though not as powerful, level as Nicol Bolas).
It just doesn't feel right. I liked other parts of that story, but this leyline stuff is getting to me.
Could the 3 Eldrazi titans have something to do with the 3 missing gods? I know its a stretch and the only thing I'm really going on here is the number 3. Does the timeline even allow for that to be a possibility? I'm just imagining that like 1000 years ago (or whenever) Bolas maybe came to Amonkhet and did something to the 3 missing gods that warped them and cast them off into the blind eternities. I know its a stretch but I just wanted to put it out there and see what people think. I sure am glad these forums have anti-flaming rules, because this post could get me flamed hardcore.
Edit: Ugin seemed to think they were older than time, but even he admitted that his knowledge of the Eldrazi was limited.
Highly doubtful. The Titans were initially sealed roughly 6000 years before the events of Zendikar. Everything points to Nicol Bolas only being an influence on Amonkhet for a couple decades, maybe a few centuries at most.
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Whatever of whoever he is, he apparently has a great interest in Liliana breaking the contract with her Demmonic Masters and getting rid of the Chain Veil. So his plot will probably only become apparent when Liliana is truly free. Whether that is also negative for Liliana remains to be seen (though for the sake of interesting storytelling it probably will).
Last but not least, AFAIK Liliana's contract with the Demons is what prevents her from aging. What's to say she will not instantly die of old age once all Demonic masters are dead?
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Finding out what happened to them? Bolas killed them. I mean not explicitly stated but come on. I stick by what I said. The other three gods are not important.
While I have to agree with you that Bolas killed them, a part of me hopes we get mnulti-colour Apophis, Set and Ra, or whatever other three you might consider as important.
—Nicol Bolas
The guy tried to destroy Alara because he felt like it. I kind of doubt the Hekma is integral to his plan past this point, so his destroying it seems fitting for now. The very, very best I can see Bolas doing with destroying the Hekma and having a purpose for it beyond some sort of plot-related reason is that he destroys it to distract the Gatewatch while he does whatever he's doing. But it's Bolas, he will blow up planes for no reason except because he feels like it.
And I have mixed feelings on Amonkhet. We know that this needs to be a loss for the Gatewatch. But at the same time Egypt seems like a really popular trope with lots of potential space. And they usually build planes now with a built in return in case it gets popular enough to justify it. Seems hard to imagine they'd stop doing that with just Amonkhet.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Haven't read yet, so no thoughts, but figured I'd share!
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
I wonder if the Gatewatch is going to end up passing all the trials as a team or something, allowing them to pass through the gate and face off against the demon.
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
BWTeysa,Orzhov Scion
GWKarametra, God of Harvests
UW Dragonlord Ojutai
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
Modern
GB Tron
UW UW Control
That aside, I had to read this story more than a few times to try and piece everything together. Wonder if that's intentional...
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
we've been making theories of, if one of the Gatewatch were to turn on them in Amonkhet, which one would it be?
we've seen arguments for Lilliana (naturally), Gideon and Chandra.
But what if the traitor turns out to be Nissa? what if she is the one that has been corrupted by Bolas?
her thinking she should be the master instead of the puppet might actually hint at that.
Click the pic for more info.
Beginning to wonder if they are going trying to set Emrakul up as an anti-hero. Basically, force of nature vs. force of evil (Bolas). It seems to me that she locked herself away as a form of preservation and is now influencing the gatewatch thoughtfully, to prepare them to fight (or perhaps just weaken the equal threat). Perhaps when she entered Jace's mind she became aware of the blight that is Bolas and his schemes...
I dunno, it feels like a corny stretch...but I also see it happening. Turning a once prominent (thought to be evil) threat into an ally...
"She ain't happy without a good leyline. This is a leyline, that is a leyline."
- The Mummy Returns, 2001
I might have misquoted.
But seriously. What *isn't* going to be leylines? "But as powerful as the magic was, it was still composed of leylines." So the Trial of Knowledge is made of leylines? "The God of Knowledge was made of leylines." WHA?!
I had to stop reading after that one line and think for a while. Jesus. Everything has to be leylines to make Nissa useful or something? What?
The other odds and ends about the history/fate of Amonkhet was cool, but this leyline stuff, sweet Mary Margaret.
Yes it was. Ajani even tells him he doesn't have to destroy ALara, Bolas could just leave. Bolas then basically said "nah I think I'm going to flex my muscles and blow this place up for the lols". Remember Bolas is grixis colors, yes he has all the plotting the shadows mastermind stuff going on for his UB side, but he's also a dragon, emotional and will do things just because he feels like it (and probity to show that he can.
I think so this weeks story was pretty dense and is a maze of symbolism. Their is a lot to unpack tbh. Looking like Nissa is the key to "fixing the gods'. Also IIRC all the gatewatch+Tamiyo where mind linked with Jace when he talked to Emrakul so I been reading as Nissa talking to her as a manifestation of the part of her mind that was linked up to Jace.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And once you dig deeper, you'll find that even leylines are measured in midichlorians
I also enjoyed the brief imagery of Bolas taking over the plane. I wonder if he 'ate' the first three gods to absorb their divine power and extend his life. I also liked the image of the long string of dark worlds ending with Amonkhet representing the thousands of worlds Bolas either destroyed, conquered, or 'ate' in his thousands of years of existence. Looking forward to next week to see what happens next.
Looks like the clues are beginning to point more to the idea that Bolas is mining the entire plane out as a power source, not using it as a planeswalker factory. I hope Hour of Devastation gives him a nice big super-villain monologue scene to lay out his glorious master plan.
This story was tasked with illustrating Nissa's shift into Blue, which I thought was fairly well done. She's still much more fundamentally Green in her approach, though, intuitive rather than analytical. I guess her Blue aspect is about manipulating the essential structures of things through leylines, or gaining knowledge.
But the leyline thing...it's like they're setting up "leylines" to be the fundamental way in which mana interacts with planes. Which I guess could be okay, but it seems like a pretty major change to the way mana has been presented throughout the history of the setting. I wonder what Nissa would make of how mana works on Dominaria, or on an artificial plane like New Phyrexia? I wish instead of this leyline business they'd get back to talking about the colors of mana a little more.
Also -- how many more of these weekly stories are we getting for this set? I'm surprised that they haven't spent more time on Gideon, since he seems to have the biggest character arc. It seems to me that they're trying to spread the focus out to each member of the Gatewatch evenly, which is a change from Kaladesh's focus on Chandra and Shadows' focus on Jace. I don't think it's working as well as a Gideon-centric story would have worked.
Edit: Ugin seemed to think they were older than time, but even he admitted that his knowledge of the Eldrazi was limited.
I agree with this point, and would add that this 'Kefnet is leylines' thing is conceptually frustrating. When I first heard of leylines, they stretched in patterns over our Earth. Massive 'energy' lines. So when they brought up leylines on Zendikar, okay, I dig. I can visualize it. The plane is full of mana and energy. Using it as a net? Okay, I get it. We're still talking lines across a plane connected by important points, whatever those points might be.
Same, more or less, on Innistrad and Kaladesh.
Now...I'm to be made to believe that these plane/planet-wide grids of mana/energy...are now diminutive, such as to be contained within a creature...and thus creating that creature? Conceptually, it doesn't make sense in my brain and doesn't sit well. It seemed like a crewtion of the author/Wizards to allow Nissa to influence a god (on the same, though not as powerful, level as Nicol Bolas).
It just doesn't feel right. I liked other parts of that story, but this leyline stuff is getting to me.
Highly doubtful. The Titans were initially sealed roughly 6000 years before the events of Zendikar. Everything points to Nicol Bolas only being an influence on Amonkhet for a couple decades, maybe a few centuries at most.