Why wouldn't the gods have known Bolas to be a "monster" and threat from him having been the original trespasser who destroyed the plane on their first encounter, save for Naktamun? After all, the story says the 8 gods were determined not to fail again "now that Naktamun was all that remained." In order to know about Amonkhet, Bolas had to have visited it before. It's not beyond the realm of imagination that he damaged it then, became the trespasser, and returned to face the gods and overtake the plane.
Well clearly he was there before the place got reduced to just Naktamun, since Liliana noted that the place looked very different from when she paid a visit to get her Razaketh contract.
Lilly's comment was that she didn't get a tour when she came for the demon and much 'could' have changed. It's quite clear that she came after Bolas made it his own, which is why she says it's his and assumes he made it.
Hmm, that's true. Also, it would line up with the timeline of events since she went to Razaketh after the Mending, and Bolas was taking over Amonkhet just after the Mending in a hurry before he completely lost his oldwalker powers.
The story says that the gods were stunned at Bolas' power. It says that "no monster could defeat the eight gods of Amonkhet." It also detailed how he read about the culture of Amonkhet while there after defeating the gods.
I'm not saying that there was no chance that Bolas was the cause of the state of the plane. I'm saying there is less to support that then there is to support the plane being that way upon Bolas' arrival.
I suspect that it was Bolas who caused the plane's previous devastation. He would have to have already visited it extensively to know that it suited his purposes. I suspect that he engineered a long-term death spiral for the plane, possibly by disrupting the cycle of life and death so that everything that dies gets reanimated, so that he could eventually use it for whatever his purpose was (planar battery, giant undead interplanar invasion army, whatever). Or maybe he already got most of what he was after, and was content to just let the survivors struggle on with their sad little gods. Then the Mending caused him to massively accelerate the plan, or else to decide that his little leave-behind project could serve a bigger purpose.
I just realize that Bolas killing the adults and leaving the babies is the direct opposite of the last plague of Egypt, as well.
I agree, Bolas probably knew about the plane but he was not the cause of the problem. There were other power beings in the multiverse such as Eldrazi and Phyrexia, but the Gods could not possible deny those two either. Then again, Bolas rarely uses violence but he could still visit a plane and cause its downfall. One thing for sure is that the Tresspasser was a planeswalker, consider they are the ones who could move freely between planes. A demon, perhaps, which adds to the chance that Ob Nixilis was there (he mentioned he conquered many planes before).
Looks like Amonkhet is screwed, badly. Samut might end up being the sole surviver and join Gatewatch for vengeance. Are there other planes culturally similar to Amonkhet?
As much as I look forward to Gatewatch's first defeat, I really feel bad for this plane, devastated, twisted, and to be sacrificed. The other me says that he relish at the fact that the lore has finally return to its sadistic, tragic roots. Very few early Magic stories were happy.
So... Bolas didn't destroy the plane, it was already like that when he arrived.
The gods of Amonkhet saw the dragon hovering outside the protection of the Hekma. They climbed to the tops of their highest vantage points and armed themselves for battle. They were determined not to fail this time. No monster could defeat the eight gods of Amonkhet. Not when Naktamun was all that remained.
Interesting, especially since it seems that this was the first time the gods saw Bolas.
Yet, there is a plothole at this point: if Bolas killed all adults in the city, who etched the ancient writings on the abandoned temple and also in the temple outside of the barrier?
I hope that they will delve deeper into the backstory of Amonkhet.
That's an excellent point. Hopefully, that's intended to be a legitimate mystery and not an oversight or lack of communication between writers or Creative and the writers.
As a side note, those Archenemy lands (which are probably also the HOU Basic Lands) adds further fuel to the idea that any future return to Amonkhet will be a focus on the "Egypt as a dead civilization of ruins and curses and traps" tropes instead of the living Egypt of the Pharaohs.
As others have suggested, I can see Samut being the sole survivor of Amonkhet. (Being the sole survivor of your people is a major superhero trope, after all. See Superman, the Martian Manhunter, etc.)
So... Bolas didn't destroy the plane, it was already like that when he arrived.
The gods of Amonkhet saw the dragon hovering outside the protection of the Hekma. They climbed to the tops of their highest vantage points and armed themselves for battle. They were determined not to fail this time. No monster could defeat the eight gods of Amonkhet. Not when Naktamun was all that remained.
Interesting, especially since it seems that this was the first time the gods saw Bolas.
Yet, there is a plothole at this point: if Bolas killed all adults in the city, who etched the ancient writings on the abandoned temple and also in the temple outside of the barrier?
I hope that they will delve deeper into the backstory of Amonkhet.
There is no plothole if Bolas (as I and others read it) was on Amonkhet before and destroyed much of it in multiple attacks before finally going all out on warping the whole plane. That would also explain where the etchings in the temple outside Nakhtamun came from: That was the rest of another city destroyed by Bolas.
The story says that the gods were stunned at Bolas' power. It says that "no monster could defeat the eight gods of Amonkhet."
I read that the way that this was the first time the gods stood as one. It stands to reason that before the rest of Amonkhet went belly-up that the gods were scattered, possibly each of them governing their own city state. As the others fell one by one, the gods would gather in the only remaining pocket of civilization and now that they are together, nothing could beat them.
Or so they thought.
Anyway, that's just my interpretation on the rather ambigious wording. Personally I find it odd to imply in previous stories that Bolas is the trespasser only to later reveal that the real trespasser is another entity with completely no relevance to the story.* It's jarring and pulls the focus away from the topic at hand. It's a distracting detail that didn't have to be, if true. Nether foreshadowing nor red-herring-ing works that way.
*Unless of course the original trespasser is Razaketh and Bolas made a deal with him, as the demon could not defeat the gods by himself. I could work with that. Hell, maybe Razaketh isn't even native to the plane but was brought/summoned there by an oldwalker prior to the mending. That would also explain why Razaketh looks so out of place in an egytian setting. Urgh.
So... Bolas didn't destroy the plane, it was already like that when he arrived.
The gods of Amonkhet saw the dragon hovering outside the protection of the Hekma. They climbed to the tops of their highest vantage points and armed themselves for battle. They were determined not to fail this time. No monster could defeat the eight gods of Amonkhet. Not when Naktamun was all that remained.
Interesting, especially since it seems that this was the first time the gods saw Bolas.
Yet, there is a plothole at this point: if Bolas killed all adults in the city, who etched the ancient writings on the abandoned temple and also in the temple outside of the barrier?
I hope that they will delve deeper into the backstory of Amonkhet.
Idk if this a plothole. Samut found the ancient traditions of dance in Hieroglyphics. Chandra and Nissa found the 8 gods etc. I think that even if the domination of Naktamun was Bolas's first visit (even with killing all the adults killed) there would be enough information around for a dissenter to figure out Bolas doesnt belong on their own.
Sorry on my phone so super messy
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UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
It seems pretty clear to me that the gods had never seen Bolas before.
It also seemed pretty clear that he learned about the planes culture after beating the gods.
And where is it coming from that Bolas isn't the tresspasser? That term has only ever been used in this block as reference to Bolas. First when Samut found the horns hieroglyph with the word tesspasser underneath.
Interesting, especially since it seems that this was the first time the gods saw Bolas.
Yet, there is a plothole at this point: if Bolas killed all adults in the city, who etched the ancient writings on the abandoned temple and also in the temple outside of the barrier?
I hope that they will delve deeper into the backstory of Amonkhet.
I don't think it's a plot hole. It's entirely possible that Naktamun was LARGER than it was now, but was forced to shrink in size either, 1) Due to devastation prior to Bolas, 2) Shrunk because Bolas made his advancement, either reason could lead to the Gods shrinking the city so they don't have to maintain as much land during a disaster like this, the etching outside of Hekma might've been records of Bolas or previous disaster/planeswalker as he laid siege to Naktamun.
It is also possible that, the record was left by those who found the truth and fled/banished to the desert, hoping to preserve a sliver of history without under the watchful eyes of the Bolas/Gods/peers. Bolas killed all adults during his invasion, but the story only spoke of what happened within the city, not without. In his hurry, Bolas would not pay attention to those left outside of Hekma. If my above theory about the Hekma shrunk under pressure is correct, it adds the chance that there were unfortunate people left outside before the Gods could bring them in.
It seems pretty clear to me that the gods had never seen Bolas before.
It also seemed pretty clear that he learned about the planes culture after beating the gods.
And where is it coming from that Bolas isn't the tresspasser? That term has only ever been used in this block as reference to Bolas. First when Samut found the horns hieroglyph with the word tesspasser underneath.
Because the intro to the latest story makes it seem like Bolas has just arrived on the plane at the start of the action, which creates a couple of issues.
If your first two assumptions are true, then something other than Bolas had to have ruined the plane and cause the gods to regret their previous failure. Since Bolas immediately murders anyone capable of remembering a time pre-Bolas, nobody who knew he was an invader would be around to write "Trespasser" all over the place, especially outside the Hekma, so it makes sense that the pre Bolas residents named something else "Tresspasser", and that it must have ruined the rest of the plane.
Now, you are correct that as the word appears exclusively under Bolas' horn motif, that the word clearly is directed at him. There are three ways to explain this discrepancy between this fact and apparent timeline presented by the most recent story:
A) The intro to the story was not meant to imply that Bolas had just arrived, and he had indeed been wrecking the plane for a bit and was now just pressed for time. This interpretation would see the intro as the culmination of a rushed takeover of the plane, and fit with this being the first time the gods all faced him together and him not learning cultural details until post conquest. This would assume that the plane already had a natural necromantic cycle which Bolas merely kicked into overdrive or interrupted methods employed by the natives to manage it, and that the plane was already predominantly desert but with more fertile pockets and oasis, possibly with the Luxa actually coursing across the entire plane creating a fertile area much like the actual Egypt.
B) Post Bolas Dissidents named Bolas the Trespasser and made all the markings to that effect. The original dissidents followed the same path as Samut but with less obvious clues, meaning they had to realize on their own that the 8 stars meant 8 gods and other clues without the benefit of someone spelling out that Bolas was the Trespasser, or a dissident became a planeswalker and learned more of Bolas on other planes before returning (though it is exceedingly unlikely that anyone could have done this without Bolas finding out. Ashiok would be the obvious candidate given his style and his ability to act without revealing himself, tricking even gods, but it doesn't seem like his nature to go out of his way to warn people of the truth, so I doubt it). There were three generations of crops, and a history of dissenters being banished, so its very possible that something along these lines is the explanation. It would also explain the markings in the ruins, as they could have been made by banished dissenters before they died (and the ruins we saw them in were reached in less than a night by 3 children, and would have provided obvious shelter for any freshly banished dissenter).
C) Creative screw up. Genuine plot hole where Bolas was intended to have destroyed the plane while earning the name trespasser, but this was undermined by the most recent story, or the most recent story was the intention all along and Creative didn't realize that it would not jive with the Trespasser markings, making the discrepancy a result of Creative not realizing the two conflicted.
I'm leaning towards option B) right now, though A) is possible.
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Because the intro to the latest story makes it seem like Bolas has just arrived on the plane at the start of the action, which creates a couple of issues.
If your first two assumptions are true, then something other than Bolas had to have ruined the plane and cause the gods to regret their previous failure. Since Bolas immediately murders anyone capable of remembering a time pre-Bolas, nobody who knew he was an invader would be around to write "Trespasser" all over the place, especially outside the Hekma, so it makes sense that the pre Bolas residents named something else "Tresspasser", and that it must have ruined the rest of the plane.
Now, you are correct that as the word appears exclusively under Bolas' horn motif, that the word clearly is directed at him. There are three ways to explain this discrepancy between this fact and apparent timeline presented by the most recent story:
A) The intro to the story was not meant to imply that Bolas had just arrived, and he had indeed been wrecking the plane for a bit and was now just pressed for time. This interpretation would see the intro as the culmination of a rushed takeover of the plane, and fit with this being the first time the gods all faced him together and him not learning cultural details until post conquest. This would assume that the plane already had a natural necromantic cycle which Bolas merely kicked into overdrive or interrupted methods employed by the natives to manage it, and that the plane was already predominantly desert but with more fertile pockets and oasis, possibly with the Luxa actually coursing across the entire plane creating a fertile area much like the actual Egypt.
B) Post Bolas Dissidents named Bolas the Trespasser and made all the markings to that effect. The original dissidents followed the same path as Samut but with less obvious clues, meaning they had to realize on their own that the 8 stars meant 8 gods and other clues without the benefit of someone spelling out that Bolas was the Trespasser, or a dissident became a planeswalker and learned more of Bolas on other planes before returning (though it is exceedingly unlikely that anyone could have done this without Bolas finding out. Ashiok would be the obvious candidate given his style and his ability to act without revealing himself, tricking even gods, but it doesn't seem like his nature to go out of his way to warn people of the truth, so I doubt it). There were three generations of crops, and a history of dissenters being banished, so its very possible that something along these lines is the explanation. It would also explain the markings in the ruins, as they could have been made by banished dissenters before they died (and the ruins we saw them in were reached in less than a night by 3 children, and would have provided obvious shelter for any freshly banished dissenter).
C) Creative screw up. Genuine plot hole where Bolas was intended to have destroyed the plane while earning the name trespasser, but this was undermined by the most recent story, or the most recent story was the intention all along and Creative didn't realize that it would not jive with the Trespasser markings, making the discrepancy a result of Creative not realizing the two conflicted.
I'm leaning towards option B) right now, though A) is possible.
Your option B is basically what I said.
Basically what I'm saying makes the most sense, at least to me, is the following:
- Amonkhet begins to die for unknown reasons.
- Mending
- Almost immediately after the mending Bolas shows up and the intro to our most recent story happens.
-- A note about this point: the way Bolas talks about the culture its as though hes just learning about it. He also only had days to enact his plan so eliminating all evidence carved in stone of the pre-Bolas era would have been impossible.
- Bolas brings Lili to Razaketh
- people begin to find evidence of the old era and begin to dissent.
- One of the dissenters sent outside the hekma finds the ruins that Samut, Djeru, and their other friend would find and carves the Horns and "tresspasser" onto it.
- Gatewatch shows up.
The intro to the story is literally Bolas planeswalking onto Amonkhet. That said, he has definitely been here, and is almost certainly responsible for some, if not all of the destruction on Amonkhet. As pointed out by someone earlier, the gods attack him immediately, indicating he's not only been there before, but he did something to warrant the attack.
I wonder if "all that remained was Naktamun" meant that Amonkhet was a plane the Eldrazi would have devoured, to recycle, had they been free? That the plane was dying away, anyhow. Bolas engineered Eldrazi release after all. To what end I cannot be sure. I can't imagine he cares enough even for the Multiverse to want to restore balance. But it could play a part in why he chose Amonkhet to devastate first?
Could it be possible that Amonkhet was never Bolas's goal, but Zendikar was? The plane has an overabundance of mana, and mana = power. But with the Eldrazi locked on the plane, he couldn't harvest it somehow. By accelerating Amonkhet's decay, the Eldrazi were probably going for Amonkhet as soon as they would be released, leaving Zendikar open for grabs by Bolas. Obviously, the pesky Gatewhatch has already thrown a wrench in those plans by killing two titans and imprisoning the third, giving Bolas a vested interest in screwing them over. He will probably come to Amonkhet, see what is left, grab as much power of the plane as he can and go "screw you guys, till next time".
However, Nissa is able to repair just enough damage to the leylines to uncorrupt the gods after Bolas leaves, and the gods together kill Razaketh (And have Lili cry tears of joy) and they are able to save a small pocket of humans to restart civilization. Bolas will not return, thinking the plane a goner, and it makes for a nice setting where we can go treasure delving in an Ancient Egypt style desert world in the return block Relics of Amonkhet.
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If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I wonder if "all that remained was Naktamun" meant that Amonkhet was a plane the Eldrazi would have devoured, to recycle, had they been free? That the plane was dying away, anyhow. Bolas engineered Eldrazi release after all. To what end I cannot be sure. I can't imagine he cares enough even for the Multiverse to want to restore balance. But it could play a part in why he chose Amonkhet to devastate first?
Could it be possible that Amonkhet was never Bolas's goal, but Zendikar was? The plane has an overabundance of mana, and mana = power. But with the Eldrazi locked on the plane, he couldn't harvest it somehow. By accelerating Amonkhet's decay, the Eldrazi were probably going for Amonkhet as soon as they would be released, leaving Zendikar open for grabs by Bolas. Obviously, the pesky Gatewhatch has already thrown a wrench in those plans by killing two titans and imprisoning the third, giving Bolas a vested interest in screwing them over. He will probably come to Amonkhet, see what is left, grab as much power of the plane as he can and go "screw you guys, till next time".
However, Nissa is able to repair just enough damage to the leylines to uncorrupt the gods after Bolas leaves, and the gods together kill Razaketh (And have Lili cry tears of joy) and they are able to save a small pocket of humans to restart civilization. Bolas will not return, thinking the plane a goner, and it makes for a nice setting where we can go treasure delving in an Ancient Egypt style desert world in the return block Relics of Amonkhet.
This requires two big assumptions. First that the Eldrazi are actually planar recyclers who target dying planes. Nothing wrong with the theory it just is assumed in too many other theories. The second is that the Eldrazi would leave Zendikar the moment they were free, and they didn't. This is too much an assumption for someone like Bolas to make, the whole plan hinges on the accurately he can predict the actions of unknowable beings? This alone is a death-knell for that theory.
I wonder if "all that remained was Naktamun" meant that Amonkhet was a plane the Eldrazi would have devoured, to recycle, had they been free? That the plane was dying away, anyhow. Bolas engineered Eldrazi release after all. To what end I cannot be sure. I can't imagine he cares enough even for the Multiverse to want to restore balance. But it could play a part in why he chose Amonkhet to devastate first?
Could it be possible that Amonkhet was never Bolas's goal, but Zendikar was? The plane has an overabundance of mana, and mana = power. But with the Eldrazi locked on the plane, he couldn't harvest it somehow. By accelerating Amonkhet's decay, the Eldrazi were probably going for Amonkhet as soon as they would be released, leaving Zendikar open for grabs by Bolas. Obviously, the pesky Gatewhatch has already thrown a wrench in those plans by killing two titans and imprisoning the third, giving Bolas a vested interest in screwing them over. He will probably come to Amonkhet, see what is left, grab as much power of the plane as he can and go "screw you guys, till next time".
However, Nissa is able to repair just enough damage to the leylines to uncorrupt the gods after Bolas leaves, and the gods together kill Razaketh (And have Lili cry tears of joy) and they are able to save a small pocket of humans to restart civilization. Bolas will not return, thinking the plane a goner, and it makes for a nice setting where we can go treasure delving in an Ancient Egypt style desert world in the return block Relics of Amonkhet.
This requires two big assumptions. First that the Eldrazi are actually planar recyclers who target dying planes. Nothing wrong with the theory it just is assumed in too many other theories. The second is that the Eldrazi would leave Zendikar the moment they were free, and they didn't. This is too much an assumption for someone like Bolas to make, the whole plan hinges on the accurately he can predict the actions of unknowable beings? This alone is a death-knell for that theory.
Not neccesarily. Nothing as far as I know shows the Eldrazi have any real sentience that supersedes instinct. Only Emrakul has proven she is intelligent, yet she did not understand why Innistrad wasn't welcoming here etc. If Bolas knows about the Eldrazi and how they function, then it is not a death-knell for this theory. If you hold a saucage in front of a dog, you can reasonalby expect it to bite if you know what I mean.
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Not neccesarily. Nothing as far as I know shows the Eldrazi have any real sentience that supersedes instinct. Only Emrakul has proven she is intelligent, yet she did not understand why Innistrad wasn't welcoming here etc. If Bolas knows about the Eldrazi and how they function, then it is not a death-knell for this theory. If you hold a saucage in front of a dog, you can reasonalby expect it to bite if you know what I mean.
Just because you can reasonably predict the behaviour of a being doesn't mean it's not intelligent. You could achieve similar results with humans. I mean that's like saying the police isn't sapient*, because when you report a crime they show up at the scene soon after.
Besides that, we have been told that the Eldrazi are beyond mortal comprehension (as I said, we were told, not shown) which to me implies they're a step after sapience, or whatever the mumbo-jumbo eldritch Magic explanation is.
*Which is, by the way, the word you're looking for. Not sentient.
I wonder if "all that remained was Naktamun" meant that Amonkhet was a plane the Eldrazi would have devoured, to recycle, had they been free? That the plane was dying away, anyhow. Bolas engineered Eldrazi release after all. To what end I cannot be sure. I can't imagine he cares enough even for the Multiverse to want to restore balance. But it could play a part in why he chose Amonkhet to devastate first?
Could it be possible that Amonkhet was never Bolas's goal, but Zendikar was? The plane has an overabundance of mana, and mana = power. But with the Eldrazi locked on the plane, he couldn't harvest it somehow. By accelerating Amonkhet's decay, the Eldrazi were probably going for Amonkhet as soon as they would be released, leaving Zendikar open for grabs by Bolas. Obviously, the pesky Gatewhatch has already thrown a wrench in those plans by killing two titans and imprisoning the third, giving Bolas a vested interest in screwing them over. He will probably come to Amonkhet, see what is left, grab as much power of the plane as he can and go "screw you guys, till next time".
However, Nissa is able to repair just enough damage to the leylines to uncorrupt the gods after Bolas leaves, and the gods together kill Razaketh (And have Lili cry tears of joy) and they are able to save a small pocket of humans to restart civilization. Bolas will not return, thinking the plane a goner, and it makes for a nice setting where we can go treasure delving in an Ancient Egypt style desert world in the return block Relics of Amonkhet.
This requires two big assumptions. First that the Eldrazi are actually planar recyclers who target dying planes. Nothing wrong with the theory it just is assumed in too many other theories. The second is that the Eldrazi would leave Zendikar the moment they were free, and they didn't. This is too much an assumption for someone like Bolas to make, the whole plan hinges on the accurately he can predict the actions of unknowable beings? This alone is a death-knell for that theory.
Not neccesarily. Nothing as far as I know shows the Eldrazi have any real sentience that supersedes instinct. Only Emrakul has proven she is intelligent, yet she did not understand why Innistrad wasn't welcoming here etc. If Bolas knows about the Eldrazi and how they function, then it is not a death-knell for this theory. If you hold a saucage in front of a dog, you can reasonalby expect it to bite if you know what I mean.
So, again, we're left with two giant assumptions to get to the point of even considering this theory, and are still left the enormous hurdle of why the hell Bolas would create this elaborate production around the trials and the hours if he was just counting on the Eldrazi showing up and eating the plane. When he's taking stock of the culture after defeating the gods, we know from his inner monologue that he's doing so with the express purpose of setting up a system to maintain order before his return while working to some greater goal, and that he finds it amusing that the Trials happen to line up perfectly with his needs.
I mean, I can understand him wiping out all opposition and rewriting the gods if he was planning on using the Eldrazi to destroy the plane if for some reason that plan required that there be some level of life and civilization left (like if for some reason that plan would not work if Naktamun fell and the whole plane was like beyond the hekma for some reason), but even then he could have just rewritten the Gods to believe he was head god whats in charge and that he left to find a way to heal the plane, and will return once he has done so. No convoluted system of trials and rewriting civilization to focus entirely on them, just everything continues as normal except everyone thinks Bolas will return as a savior. Simpler, easier to set up, less prone to mischief, and it doesn't matter what state the populace is in when the Eldrazi show up. Of course, whats the point of any of this then if he could have just lured the Eldrazi there? Zendikar was completely boned without the Jacetus League and they were a plane full of folks suited to resistance. Maybe he needed to set up an enchantment to take advantage of this and couldn't have the gods dispel it? OK, then just make the gods believe that the enchantment is vital to Naktamun's survival. No, his plan is far to complicated already to involve just having the Eldrazi eat the plane, he's got something else planned, and it was never the Eldrazi.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I don't think there's a strong case that the Eldrazi are only drawn to dying planes. Remember, Ugin and co. chose Zendikar as a trap specifically because it was rich and vibrant with mana, and the titans could be more easily lured there.
We should also stop trying to guess what the Eldrazi's "purpose" is--any sort of answer would defeat the point of their enigma. They are eldritch monstrosities born from the unfathomable, mysterious substance of the Blind Eternities--beyond mana, beyond physics, beyond logic and reality as we comprehend them. The Creative Team alludes vaguely to some greater purpose now and then, but it's probable we'll never find out, nor should we. The Eldrazi aren't something that can just be understood like any ordinary species or force, and we need to stop trying to box them within the parameters of our comfortable human logic.
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"I'd rather die speaking the truth than live a lie." --Gix, to Yawgmoth (pre-Phyrexia)
I don't think there's a strong case that the Eldrazi are only drawn to dying planes. Remember, Ugin and co. chose Zendikar as a trap specifically because it was rich and vibrant with mana, and the titans could be more easily lured there.
We should also stop trying to guess what the Eldrazi's "purpose" is--any sort of answer would defeat the point of their enigma. They are eldritch monstrosities born from the unfathomable, mysterious substance of the Blind Eternities--beyond mana, beyond physics, beyond logic and reality as we comprehend them. The Creative Team alludes vaguely to some greater purpose now and then, but it's probable we'll never find out, nor should we. The Eldrazi aren't something that can just be understood like any ordinary species or force, and we need to stop trying to box them within the parameters of our comfortable human logic.
Honestly. I'm starting to think that when Ugin said there could be consequences to destroying the Eldrazi that was just them slipping a little line in there for the future just in case they need to reboot again. That way they have an excuse. But I think so long as everything is okay they won't be invoking the Eldrazis "purpose."
I don't think there's a strong case that the Eldrazi are only drawn to dying planes. Remember, Ugin and co. chose Zendikar as a trap specifically because it was rich and vibrant with mana, and the titans could be more easily lured there.
But the trio (and Nahiri later on Innistrad) had to specifically build a beacon to lure the Eldrazi there, so clearly they were not drawn to Zendikar or Innistrad naturally.
If the "Eldrazi are drawn towards dying planes" theory is true, the way I see it is that they look for certain signs a world is dying. An example could be mana leaking out. It also makes sense if you consider that a dying world is probably slowly losing its mana (as it bleeds into the blind eternities) as also has been hinted at during the Time Spiral crisis. Take sharks for example. You could say that a healthy animal is full of blood, and that therefore a predator feeding on dying or injured animals wouldn't be drawn to blood, but the exact opposite is the case, because as soon as the blood can be sensed, it means the animal it belongs to is injured or dying, which draws in the sharks. Same could be possible for dying planes. So an abundance of mana where no mana should be might be a sure sign for the Eldrazi to came and gobble the plane up. The beacon on Zendikar and Innistrad could simply be conduits that bled some of the planes' mana into the blind eternities.
Hmm, that's true. Also, it would line up with the timeline of events since she went to Razaketh after the Mending, and Bolas was taking over Amonkhet just after the Mending in a hurry before he completely lost his oldwalker powers.
Still, I wonder how long he knew Razaketh.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I'm not saying that there was no chance that Bolas was the cause of the state of the plane. I'm saying there is less to support that then there is to support the plane being that way upon Bolas' arrival.
omg hahaha this is an amazing take and you deserve so much for it
I agree, Bolas probably knew about the plane but he was not the cause of the problem. There were other power beings in the multiverse such as Eldrazi and Phyrexia, but the Gods could not possible deny those two either. Then again, Bolas rarely uses violence but he could still visit a plane and cause its downfall. One thing for sure is that the Tresspasser was a planeswalker, consider they are the ones who could move freely between planes. A demon, perhaps, which adds to the chance that Ob Nixilis was there (he mentioned he conquered many planes before).
Looks like Amonkhet is screwed, badly. Samut might end up being the sole surviver and join Gatewatch for vengeance. Are there other planes culturally similar to Amonkhet?
As much as I look forward to Gatewatch's first defeat, I really feel bad for this plane, devastated, twisted, and to be sacrificed. The other me says that he relish at the fact that the lore has finally return to its sadistic, tragic roots. Very few early Magic stories were happy.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
That's an excellent point. Hopefully, that's intended to be a legitimate mystery and not an oversight or lack of communication between writers or Creative and the writers.
As a side note, those Archenemy lands (which are probably also the HOU Basic Lands) adds further fuel to the idea that any future return to Amonkhet will be a focus on the "Egypt as a dead civilization of ruins and curses and traps" tropes instead of the living Egypt of the Pharaohs.
As others have suggested, I can see Samut being the sole survivor of Amonkhet. (Being the sole survivor of your people is a major superhero trope, after all. See Superman, the Martian Manhunter, etc.)
There is no plothole if Bolas (as I and others read it) was on Amonkhet before and destroyed much of it in multiple attacks before finally going all out on warping the whole plane. That would also explain where the etchings in the temple outside Nakhtamun came from: That was the rest of another city destroyed by Bolas.
I read that the way that this was the first time the gods stood as one. It stands to reason that before the rest of Amonkhet went belly-up that the gods were scattered, possibly each of them governing their own city state. As the others fell one by one, the gods would gather in the only remaining pocket of civilization and now that they are together, nothing could beat them.
Or so they thought.
Anyway, that's just my interpretation on the rather ambigious wording. Personally I find it odd to imply in previous stories that Bolas is the trespasser only to later reveal that the real trespasser is another entity with completely no relevance to the story.* It's jarring and pulls the focus away from the topic at hand. It's a distracting detail that didn't have to be, if true. Nether foreshadowing nor red-herring-ing works that way.
*Unless of course the original trespasser is Razaketh and Bolas made a deal with him, as the demon could not defeat the gods by himself. I could work with that. Hell, maybe Razaketh isn't even native to the plane but was brought/summoned there by an oldwalker prior to the mending. That would also explain why Razaketh looks so out of place in an egytian setting. Urgh.
Idk if this a plothole. Samut found the ancient traditions of dance in Hieroglyphics. Chandra and Nissa found the 8 gods etc. I think that even if the domination of Naktamun was Bolas's first visit (even with killing all the adults killed) there would be enough information around for a dissenter to figure out Bolas doesnt belong on their own.
Sorry on my phone so super messy
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
It also seemed pretty clear that he learned about the planes culture after beating the gods.
And where is it coming from that Bolas isn't the tresspasser? That term has only ever been used in this block as reference to Bolas. First when Samut found the horns hieroglyph with the word tesspasser underneath.
I don't think it's a plot hole. It's entirely possible that Naktamun was LARGER than it was now, but was forced to shrink in size either, 1) Due to devastation prior to Bolas, 2) Shrunk because Bolas made his advancement, either reason could lead to the Gods shrinking the city so they don't have to maintain as much land during a disaster like this, the etching outside of Hekma might've been records of Bolas or previous disaster/planeswalker as he laid siege to Naktamun.
It is also possible that, the record was left by those who found the truth and fled/banished to the desert, hoping to preserve a sliver of history without under the watchful eyes of the Bolas/Gods/peers. Bolas killed all adults during his invasion, but the story only spoke of what happened within the city, not without. In his hurry, Bolas would not pay attention to those left outside of Hekma. If my above theory about the Hekma shrunk under pressure is correct, it adds the chance that there were unfortunate people left outside before the Gods could bring them in.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Because the intro to the latest story makes it seem like Bolas has just arrived on the plane at the start of the action, which creates a couple of issues.
If your first two assumptions are true, then something other than Bolas had to have ruined the plane and cause the gods to regret their previous failure. Since Bolas immediately murders anyone capable of remembering a time pre-Bolas, nobody who knew he was an invader would be around to write "Trespasser" all over the place, especially outside the Hekma, so it makes sense that the pre Bolas residents named something else "Tresspasser", and that it must have ruined the rest of the plane.
Now, you are correct that as the word appears exclusively under Bolas' horn motif, that the word clearly is directed at him. There are three ways to explain this discrepancy between this fact and apparent timeline presented by the most recent story:
A) The intro to the story was not meant to imply that Bolas had just arrived, and he had indeed been wrecking the plane for a bit and was now just pressed for time. This interpretation would see the intro as the culmination of a rushed takeover of the plane, and fit with this being the first time the gods all faced him together and him not learning cultural details until post conquest. This would assume that the plane already had a natural necromantic cycle which Bolas merely kicked into overdrive or interrupted methods employed by the natives to manage it, and that the plane was already predominantly desert but with more fertile pockets and oasis, possibly with the Luxa actually coursing across the entire plane creating a fertile area much like the actual Egypt.
B) Post Bolas Dissidents named Bolas the Trespasser and made all the markings to that effect. The original dissidents followed the same path as Samut but with less obvious clues, meaning they had to realize on their own that the 8 stars meant 8 gods and other clues without the benefit of someone spelling out that Bolas was the Trespasser, or a dissident became a planeswalker and learned more of Bolas on other planes before returning (though it is exceedingly unlikely that anyone could have done this without Bolas finding out. Ashiok would be the obvious candidate given his style and his ability to act without revealing himself, tricking even gods, but it doesn't seem like his nature to go out of his way to warn people of the truth, so I doubt it). There were three generations of crops, and a history of dissenters being banished, so its very possible that something along these lines is the explanation. It would also explain the markings in the ruins, as they could have been made by banished dissenters before they died (and the ruins we saw them in were reached in less than a night by 3 children, and would have provided obvious shelter for any freshly banished dissenter).
C) Creative screw up. Genuine plot hole where Bolas was intended to have destroyed the plane while earning the name trespasser, but this was undermined by the most recent story, or the most recent story was the intention all along and Creative didn't realize that it would not jive with the Trespasser markings, making the discrepancy a result of Creative not realizing the two conflicted.
I'm leaning towards option B) right now, though A) is possible.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Your option B is basically what I said.
Basically what I'm saying makes the most sense, at least to me, is the following:
- Amonkhet begins to die for unknown reasons.
- Mending
- Almost immediately after the mending Bolas shows up and the intro to our most recent story happens.
-- A note about this point: the way Bolas talks about the culture its as though hes just learning about it. He also only had days to enact his plan so eliminating all evidence carved in stone of the pre-Bolas era would have been impossible.
- Bolas brings Lili to Razaketh
- people begin to find evidence of the old era and begin to dissent.
- One of the dissenters sent outside the hekma finds the ruins that Samut, Djeru, and their other friend would find and carves the Horns and "tresspasser" onto it.
- Gatewatch shows up.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Could it be possible that Amonkhet was never Bolas's goal, but Zendikar was? The plane has an overabundance of mana, and mana = power. But with the Eldrazi locked on the plane, he couldn't harvest it somehow. By accelerating Amonkhet's decay, the Eldrazi were probably going for Amonkhet as soon as they would be released, leaving Zendikar open for grabs by Bolas. Obviously, the pesky Gatewhatch has already thrown a wrench in those plans by killing two titans and imprisoning the third, giving Bolas a vested interest in screwing them over. He will probably come to Amonkhet, see what is left, grab as much power of the plane as he can and go "screw you guys, till next time".
However, Nissa is able to repair just enough damage to the leylines to uncorrupt the gods after Bolas leaves, and the gods together kill Razaketh (And have Lili cry tears of joy) and they are able to save a small pocket of humans to restart civilization. Bolas will not return, thinking the plane a goner, and it makes for a nice setting where we can go treasure delving in an Ancient Egypt style desert world in the return block Relics of Amonkhet.
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If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Just because you can reasonably predict the behaviour of a being doesn't mean it's not intelligent. You could achieve similar results with humans. I mean that's like saying the police isn't sapient*, because when you report a crime they show up at the scene soon after.
Besides that, we have been told that the Eldrazi are beyond mortal comprehension (as I said, we were told, not shown) which to me implies they're a step after sapience, or whatever the mumbo-jumbo eldritch Magic explanation is.
*Which is, by the way, the word you're looking for. Not sentient.
So, again, we're left with two giant assumptions to get to the point of even considering this theory, and are still left the enormous hurdle of why the hell Bolas would create this elaborate production around the trials and the hours if he was just counting on the Eldrazi showing up and eating the plane. When he's taking stock of the culture after defeating the gods, we know from his inner monologue that he's doing so with the express purpose of setting up a system to maintain order before his return while working to some greater goal, and that he finds it amusing that the Trials happen to line up perfectly with his needs.
I mean, I can understand him wiping out all opposition and rewriting the gods if he was planning on using the Eldrazi to destroy the plane if for some reason that plan required that there be some level of life and civilization left (like if for some reason that plan would not work if Naktamun fell and the whole plane was like beyond the hekma for some reason), but even then he could have just rewritten the Gods to believe he was head god whats in charge and that he left to find a way to heal the plane, and will return once he has done so. No convoluted system of trials and rewriting civilization to focus entirely on them, just everything continues as normal except everyone thinks Bolas will return as a savior. Simpler, easier to set up, less prone to mischief, and it doesn't matter what state the populace is in when the Eldrazi show up. Of course, whats the point of any of this then if he could have just lured the Eldrazi there? Zendikar was completely boned without the Jacetus League and they were a plane full of folks suited to resistance. Maybe he needed to set up an enchantment to take advantage of this and couldn't have the gods dispel it? OK, then just make the gods believe that the enchantment is vital to Naktamun's survival. No, his plan is far to complicated already to involve just having the Eldrazi eat the plane, he's got something else planned, and it was never the Eldrazi.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
We should also stop trying to guess what the Eldrazi's "purpose" is--any sort of answer would defeat the point of their enigma. They are eldritch monstrosities born from the unfathomable, mysterious substance of the Blind Eternities--beyond mana, beyond physics, beyond logic and reality as we comprehend them. The Creative Team alludes vaguely to some greater purpose now and then, but it's probable we'll never find out, nor should we. The Eldrazi aren't something that can just be understood like any ordinary species or force, and we need to stop trying to box them within the parameters of our comfortable human logic.
Honestly. I'm starting to think that when Ugin said there could be consequences to destroying the Eldrazi that was just them slipping a little line in there for the future just in case they need to reboot again. That way they have an excuse. But I think so long as everything is okay they won't be invoking the Eldrazis "purpose."
But the trio (and Nahiri later on Innistrad) had to specifically build a beacon to lure the Eldrazi there, so clearly they were not drawn to Zendikar or Innistrad naturally.
If the "Eldrazi are drawn towards dying planes" theory is true, the way I see it is that they look for certain signs a world is dying. An example could be mana leaking out. It also makes sense if you consider that a dying world is probably slowly losing its mana (as it bleeds into the blind eternities) as also has been hinted at during the Time Spiral crisis. Take sharks for example. You could say that a healthy animal is full of blood, and that therefore a predator feeding on dying or injured animals wouldn't be drawn to blood, but the exact opposite is the case, because as soon as the blood can be sensed, it means the animal it belongs to is injured or dying, which draws in the sharks. Same could be possible for dying planes. So an abundance of mana where no mana should be might be a sure sign for the Eldrazi to came and gobble the plane up. The beacon on Zendikar and Innistrad could simply be conduits that bled some of the planes' mana into the blind eternities.