[quote from="SteamMage »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/753571-magic-story-kaladesh-aether-revolt-no-spoiler?comment=603"]I wonder if Baan is going to be a recurring character, if not full on antagonist. If so I have to think he may taverse the Multiverse warning other walkers of the Gatewatch's marvelous ability to destablize things.
Perhaps- but Baan strikes me along the lines of Nahiri- outside of the context they were presented in, they probably wouldn't be villians at all.
Like, now that Nahiri's done on Innistrad, she probably has zero motivation to completely screw up another world. Hell, I'm betting there's a good part of her that's wracked with guilt for what she did on Innistrad.
Does Nahiri know that Ugin was dead/in a coma while the Eldrazi were breaking free? If not, she'll probably target Tarkir next. She's already tried to murder an entire Plane to get revenge on one guy; I doubt someone like that can even recognize guilt...
If I am not mistaken, she does not know where Tarkir is, and even that it is Ugin's homeworld. But yeah, all it takes to know is to meet Bolas...
I wonder if Baan is going to be a recurring character, if not full on antagonist. If so I have to think he may taverse the Multiverse warning other walkers of the Gatewatch's marvelous ability to destablize things.
Perhaps- but Baan strikes me along the lines of Nahiri- outside of the context they were presented in, they probably wouldn't be villians at all.
Like, now that Nahiri's done on Innistrad, she probably has zero motivation to completely screw up another world. Hell, I'm betting there's a good part of her that's wracked with guilt for what she did on Innistrad.
Does Nahiri know that Ugin was dead/in a coma while the Eldrazi were breaking free? If not, she'll probably target Tarkir next. She's already tried to murder an entire Plane to get revenge on one guy; I doubt someone like that can even recognize guilt...
Agree on Dovin, though. He does feel Azorius-y: it's about maintaining order. Lawful neutral, to use a D&D term.
I bet she'll target Tarkir next too. And go there, won't find Ugin so she'll take her revenge by murdering all his kind there - thus ending the dragon rule and returning Tarkir to the days of khans, which was inevitably more popular anyway.
She tries Declaration in Stone again and takes 10 from DragonLady Kolaghan.
[quote from="Pollaski »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/753571-magic-story-kaladesh-aether-revolt-no-spoiler?comment=604"][quote from="SteamMage »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/753571-magic-story-kaladesh-aether-revolt-no-spoiler?comment=603"]I wonder if Baan is going to be a recurring character, if not full on antagonist. If so I have to think he may taverse the Multiverse warning other walkers of the Gatewatch's marvelous ability to destablize things.
Perhaps- but Baan strikes me along the lines of Nahiri- outside of the context they were presented in, they probably wouldn't be villians at all.
Like, now that Nahiri's done on Innistrad, she probably has zero motivation to completely screw up another world. Hell, I'm betting there's a good part of her that's wracked with guilt for what she did on Innistrad.
Does Nahiri know that Ugin was dead/in a coma while the Eldrazi were breaking free? If not, she'll probably target Tarkir next. She's already tried to murder an entire Plane to get revenge on one guy; I doubt someone like that can even recognize guilt...
If I am not mistaken, she does not know where Tarkir is, and even that it is Ugin's homeworld. But yeah, all it takes to know is to meet Bolas...
She'd never been to Inistraad before either, but she managed to find it. If Nahiri vs Ugin is a direction that creative wants to go, there's really no reason that they couldn't just have her figure it out somehow.
Example:
We know that Nahiri spent decades working with Ugin to construct the hedron network. We also know that Ugin's magic is very unique, it's reasonable that Nahiri would recognize it instantly. Now that Ugin's been restored and has been offworld potentially leaving traces of himself all over the place, they could say that Nahiri stumbled across Ugin's "signature" and spent the time since she left Inistraad tracking him back to Tarkir (where his signature is strongest, no doubt). Now, Nahiri's not a tracker per se, but it's likely a skill that was commonplace among Kor, and imperfect technique/skill in it could explain why it is she ends up at the strongest signature, rather than the most recent (thus why Ugin's not on Tarkir to simply eat her).
The Dragonlords, having been born of Ugin's magic would obviously have a strong signature, which would be what ultimately brings them into her cross-hairs. Much like (from her point of view) Sorin forsook her for Inistraad and it's protections, Ugin forsook her for Tarkir and it's protectors.
Perhaps- but Baan strikes me along the lines of Nahiri- outside of the context they were presented in, they probably wouldn't be villians at all.
Like, now that Nahiri's done on Innistrad, she probably has zero motivation to completely screw up another world. Hell, I'm betting there's a good part of her that's wracked with guilt for what she did on Innistrad.
Does Nahiri know that Ugin was dead/in a coma while the Eldrazi were breaking free? If not, she'll probably target Tarkir next. She's already tried to murder an entire Plane to get revenge on one guy; I doubt someone like that can even recognize guilt...
If I am not mistaken, she does not know where Tarkir is, and even that it is Ugin's homeworld. But yeah, all it takes to know is to meet Bolas...
She'd never been to Inistraad before either, but she managed to find it. If Nahiri vs Ugin is a direction that creative wants to go, there's really no reason that they couldn't just have her figure it out somehow.
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You are right. I thought he trained her on Innistrad after her ascension, but the Stone and Blood story confirms she has not been there before. Still, she had a special bond with Sorin that allowed her to find him and Innistrad.
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You are right. I thought he trained her on Innistrad after her ascension, but the Stone and Blood story confirms she has not been there before. Still, she had a special bond with Sorin that allowed her to find him and Innistrad.
I don't think Sorin himself has been to Tarkir before we got there ourselves and he probably didn't bother to either until the Eldrazi were released. I daresay it wouldn't take Nahiri that long to find Tarkir is she really wanted to, Bolas involved or not. But given Ugin just left Sarkhan there I also foresee Nahiri vs Sarkhan before Ugin interferes (if he does).
Reminder that Nahiri, Sorin and Ugin are all oldwalkers and oldwalkers have a tendency to not recognize guilt. It took Emrakul and the Gatewatch to invoke some sort of semblance of it into a 200-year old one (Liliana) and the trio are at least 6700 years older than Liliana...
This story lost me when we found out that she is a fifteen year old with her own fleet of pirate ships. I mean seriously? I was willing to suspend my disbelief for a single ship but a whole fleet?
That's the part that lost you? Not the skywhales, the telepathy, the airships, but a 15-year-old with her own fleet?
This story lost me when we found out that she is a fifteen year old with her own fleet of pirate ships. I mean seriously? I was willing to suspend my disbelief for a single ship but a whole fleet?
That's the part that lost you? Not the skywhales, the telepathy, the airships, but a 15-year-old with her own fleet?
Makes sense though. Just because it's a fantasy story with magic doesn't mean that's a reasonable thing. How does a 15 year old acquire an entire fleet? She may have powers but she's in a world where everyone does. Judging it from that perspective yeah… we can't say "oh well by magic of course!"
This story lost me when we found out that she is a fifteen year old with her own fleet of pirate ships. I mean seriously? I was willing to suspend my disbelief for a single ship but a whole fleet?
That's the part that lost you? Not the skywhales, the telepathy, the airships, but a 15-year-old with her own fleet?
Makes sense though. Just because it's a fantasy story with magic doesn't mean that's a reasonable thing. How does a 15 year old acquire an entire fleet? She may have powers but she's in a world where everyone does. Judging it from that perspective yeah… we can't say "oh well by magic of course!"
I'd have bought it if her backstory were that her parents were aether pirates, and she inherited the fleet. That's about the only way I can see it being a reasonable accomplishment for someone so young.
It never specifically said she commanded the fleet, did it? Considering that the rest of her fleet was destroyed (including the Sun Charger- her mentor's ship), she could have very well been a captain within the fleet, but since she and her ship are the sole survivor, she thinks herself the head of that band, even if there's nothing else beyond her ship.
Either way, she has a pet monkey, and if childhood taught me anything, its that being a thief with a pet monkey is a surefire insta-climb up the social ladder.
I totally agree with everyone complaining about a 15 year old being not just a pirate, not just a pirate captain, but the commander of an entire pirate fleet. A 15 year old being employed in a dangerous, skill-intensive, illegal occupation is ridiculous enough, but having a high-ranking position of leadership? No, just no. Then there's the fact that grown adults would have to willingly be subservient to a teenager, which would not happen in real life. Imagine being a reasonable, working adult and getting a new job, then finding out that your manager (actually, more like your manager's manager) is 15 years old.
It would make sense if she inherited the fleet from her parents but apparently her parents are Consulate officials so that's pretty much ruled out. I guess that aging could be different for humans on Kaladesh (it certainly is on Ravnica), but at age 12 Chandra was still going to school and being a normal 12 year old, so how a 15 year old would have a very powerful position as a pirate is beyond me.
It just feels like shameless pandering to me. The whole thing feels like the fantasy of a horny but imaginative teenagers. We get it, 15 year olds play this game. If you want to put 15 year olds in the story, go ahead, but make it actually make sense instead of being completely ridiculous. Did anyone actually stop to think this through? Jesus, she doesn't even look 15. Look at the thread that spoiled her. Multiple people said she was hot (they assumed that she was in her 20s, because that's how she looks), but then retracted their statements when they learned her age. Why not just make her a few years older so that it's actually slightly believable? Or just make her a 15 year old badass pirate, but not a 15 year old badass pirate fleet commander.
As for the rest of the story, it could have been better. It was somewhat hard to follow, especially with the POV switching between Kari and Jace, without any spacing or notification for the change. Why not just choose one? Their minds are linked anyway, so either one can get plot-relevant information from the other. Why even switch POV at all? It felt like the story kept repeating "Kari is a pirate" and "Kari has a pet monkey" over and over again, which was annoying. The monkey felt cartoonish, Disney-like, and just generally horrible as an element of the story. Yes, people like monkeys but don't make it feel like a Disney princess's pet for the love of God!
This isn't the fault of the writer, but I feel like the whole pirate thing came out of the blue. There was nothing in Kaladesh indicating piracy of any kind on the plane. If you had asked anyone if Kaladesh had pirates before Aether Revolt, they would have said no. There should have been at least one pirate or pirate-related card in Kaladesh. It didn't have to be a top-down pirate; they could have flavored just about any preexisting U, B, or R creature that's either energy-related or evasive as an Aether pirate. In Aether Revolt we only got two pirates, and no pirate ships (despite other flying vehicle existing). I like the idea of Kaladesh's pirates in general (just not the execution in this story) and I want to see a lot more when we return.
I totally agree with everyone complaining about a 15 year old being not just a pirate, not just a pirate captain, but the commander of an entire pirate fleet. A 15 year old being employed in a dangerous, skill-intensive, illegal occupation is ridiculous enough, but having a high-ranking position of leadership? No, just no. Then there's the fact that grown adults would have to willingly be subservient to a teenager, which would not happen in real life. Imagine being a reasonable, working adult and getting a new job, then finding out that your manager (actually, more like your manager's manager) is 15 years old.
It would make sense if she inherited the fleet from her parents but apparently her parents are Consulate officials so that's pretty much ruled out. I guess that aging could be different for humans on Kaladesh (it certainly is on Ravnica), but at age 12 Chandra was still going to school and being a normal 12 year old, so how a 15 year old would have a very powerful position as a pirate is beyond me.
It just feels like shameless pandering to me. The whole thing feels like the fantasy of a horny but imaginative teenagers. We get it, 15 year olds play this game. If you want to put 15 year olds in the story, go ahead, but make it actually make sense instead of being completely ridiculous. Did anyone actually stop to think this through? Jesus, she doesn't even look 15. Look at the thread that spoiled her. Multiple people said she was hot (they assumed that she was in her 20s, because that's how she looks), but then retracted their statements when they learned her age. Why not just make her a few years older so that it's actually slightly believable? Or just make her a 15 year old badass pirate, but not a 15 year old badass pirate fleet commander.
As for the rest of the story, it could have been better. It was somewhat hard to follow, especially with the POV switching between Kari and Jace, without any spacing or notification for the change. Why not just choose one? Their minds are linked anyway, so either one can get plot-relevant information from the other. Why even switch POV at all? It felt like the story kept repeating "Kari is a pirate" and "Kari has a pet monkey" over and over again, which was annoying. The monkey felt cartoonish, Disney-like, and just generally horrible as an element of the story. Yes, people like monkeys but don't make it feel like a Disney princess's pet for the love of God!
This isn't the fault of the writer, but I feel like the whole pirate thing came out of the blue. There was nothing in Kaladesh indicating piracy of any kind on the plane. If you had asked anyone if Kaladesh had pirates before Aether Revolt, they would have said no. There should have been at least one pirate or pirate-related card in Kaladesh. It didn't have to be a top-down pirate; they could have flavored just about any preexisting U, B, or R creature that's either energy-related or evasive as an Aether pirate. In Aether Revolt we only got two pirates, and no pirate ships (despite other flying vehicle existing). I like the idea of Kaladesh's pirates in general (just not the execution in this story) and I want to see a lot more when we return.
Yeah, at least Domri Rade is believable, in that he's not an authority figure; he's just someone whose Spark ignited WAY earlier than most. But a Pirate Captain/Admiral at age 15? That's going a bit beyond suspension of disbelief.
It never specifically said she commanded the fleet, did it? Considering that the rest of her fleet was destroyed (including the Sun Charger- her mentor's ship), she could have very well been a captain within the fleet, but since she and her ship are the sole survivor, she thinks herself the head of that band, even if there's nothing else beyond her ship.
Either way, she has a pet monkey, and if childhood taught me anything, its that being a thief with a pet monkey is a surefire insta-climb up the social ladder.
She might not even have been the Dragon's Smile's Captain when the fleet was still around though. She is now, but she never indicated she was one back then either.
All because she said "my fleet" doesn't mean the fleet belonged to her, I think she's saying it like she would say "my family", but since they're pirates, fleet is the term they use, because to them it might as well be no different. All because she held so much pride doesn't mean she had to be in charge of it, she could be proud of the accomplishments of her entire "family", regardless of her actual rank. She's a R Sky Pirate, pretty sure that is all pride and emotion placed into "fleet=family".
Really wished she talked more about her mentor at least (if not the whole hierarchy), because her mention felt rather off-hand, but from that small bit of text we couldn't really tell how she really felt about her fleet either.
I bet she'll target Tarkir next too. And go there, won't find Ugin so she'll take her revenge by murdering all his kind there - thus ending the dragon rule and returning Tarkir to the days of khans, which was inevitably more popular anyway.
I thought Tarkir with dragons was infinitely better than another warring plane with humans. Don't go assuming things based on a couple of loud voices.
Also, Nahiri beating one ancient, sentient dragon, let alone five with their own human armies and respawning dragonstorms? Calling it a stretch would be an understatement. She doesn't have something like Emrakul to bait in to Tarkir any more. This is all assuming that Ugin doesn't show up and if he does, it's a wrap for Nahiri, prep-time or otherwise.
I bet she'll target Tarkir next too. And go there, won't find Ugin so she'll take her revenge by murdering all his kind there - thus ending the dragon rule and returning Tarkir to the days of khans, which was inevitably more popular anyway.
I thought Tarkir with dragons was infinitely better than another warring plane with humans. Don't go assuming things based on a couple of loud voices.
Also, Nahiri beating one ancient, sentient dragon, let alone five with their own human armies and respawning dragonstorms? Calling it a stretch would be an understatement. She doesn't have something like Emrakul to bait in to Tarkir any more. This is all assuming that Ugin doesn't show up and if he does, it's a wrap for Nahiri, prep-time or otherwise.
Nahiri wouldn't likely be facing down five dragons though. She'd more likely be facing one dragon, five times. She also has her leyline manipulation/mana focusing ability that thus far we have absolutely no idea the potential of, and the posibility of her own human(oid) armies in all those displeased with the Dragonlords' rule.
We also have no idea if the dragonstorms require Ugin's presence on the plane, or if they continue without him there. If creative really wants to go back to Wedge World as opposed to Dragon World (and IIRC MaRo did mention that Wedge actually turned out to be more popular as a whole), then that would be as simple as them saying "Nope. No Ugin, no Dragonstorms."
I'm not saying one way or another that anything of the sort will/wont happen, just highlighting how it reasonably could.
I bet she'll target Tarkir next too. And go there, won't find Ugin so she'll take her revenge by murdering all his kind there - thus ending the dragon rule and returning Tarkir to the days of khans, which was inevitably more popular anyway.
I thought Tarkir with dragons was infinitely better than another warring plane with humans. Don't go assuming things based on a couple of loud voices.
Also, Nahiri beating one ancient, sentient dragon, let alone five with their own human armies and respawning dragonstorms? Calling it a stretch would be an understatement. She doesn't have something like Emrakul to bait in to Tarkir any more. This is all assuming that Ugin doesn't show up and if he does, it's a wrap for Nahiri, prep-time or otherwise.
Lol. It's not just a couple of loud voices. Maro has said, on multiple occasions, that they thought that the dragon world would be more popular than the wedge world, but they ended up being dead wrong. He has also said that it would be very difficult to do Tarkir without wedges, and a return would probably require going back to wedge factions somehow. So don't go assuming things based on your own opinion. Wedge Tarkir was more poular than dragon Tarkir and a return will almost certainly find a way to make the latter resemble the former.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Nahiri wouldn't take on all of Tarkir's dragons head-on. She's angry, but not stupid. In both imprisoning the Eldrazi and attacking Innistrad, she underwent lots of preparation and planning (which is not exclusive to blue characters, contrary to popular belief). She could find a way to defeat most or all of the dragonlords, and maybe even Ugin, if creative wanted her to do so. Given that Return to Tarkir will have to bring back the wedge factions in the same way that RTR brought back guilds and SOI got rid of Avacyn, it would certainly be plausible for creative to use Nahiri to take down some dragons.
Again, loud voices. Those people are more likely to respond to the polls Maro is doing, not to mention Dragons of Tarkir being less popular than Khans of Tarkir has a bit to do with Dragons being a poorly-designed set with few dragons and no fetches (compared to Khans being a slightly better set with fetches). The point I was trying to make is that not everyone thought that dragon-ruled Tarkir was worse than human-ruled Tarkir.
I am also a believer of "non-blue characters having functioning brains" and thought Nahiri beating Sorin was great. However, Ugin is arguably much stronger and has a better grasp on planar things than Sorin does. The thought that Nahiri could infiltrate Tarkir, pull off some stunt to take out even one Dragonlord without Ugin noticing is a huge stretch. If Nahiri isn't stupid/gone mad with power, she would seek out Ugin before trying to fight dragons so this plotline seems bad. Ugin himself is more likely to try and return the plane back to human rule than Nahiri is. Ugin also has more importance in the overall plot as an Eldrazi specialist and a possible adversary to Bolas so having him go down to Nahiri is a bad idea. Then again, Creative does whatever it wants and likes making planeswalkers look strong so whatever.
Again, loud voices. Those people are more likely to respond to the polls Maro is doing, not to mention Dragons of Tarkir being less popular than Khans of Tarkir has a bit to do with Dragons being a poorly-designed set with few dragons and no fetches (compared to Khans being a slightly better set with fetches). The point I was trying to make is that not everyone thought that dragon-ruled Tarkir was worse than human-ruled Tarkir.
I am also a believer of "non-blue characters having functioning brains" and thought Nahiri beating Sorin was great. However, Ugin is arguably much stronger and has a better grasp on planar things than Sorin does. The thought that Nahiri could infiltrate Tarkir, pull off some stunt to take out even one Dragonlord without Ugin noticing is a huge stretch. If Nahiri isn't stupid/gone mad with power, she would seek out Ugin before trying to fight dragons so this plotline seems bad. Ugin himself is more likely to try and return the plane back to human rule than Nahiri is. Ugin also has more importance in the overall plot as an Eldrazi specialist and a possible adversary to Bolas so having him go down to Nahiri is a bad idea. Then again, Creative does whatever it wants and likes making planeswalkers look strong so whatever.
Um. No henny.
That's market research speaking. And if I must accept that Kamigawa is "unpopular" even based on market research well over 12 years old now, then it's a fact that the data from two years ago regarding Tarkir is the real deal. And for the record, I have been highly vocal about hating both Tarkirs. Even more than Ravnica and Kaladesh. Maro has stated the desire to return to wedge block ruled by khans based on the lessons learned.
While I agree a planeswalker should not be able to take out the dragon lords of Tarkir, that didn't seem to help when a small group of them took down two Eldrazi titans more ancient than the very planes those characters were from, or when one of them talked her highly fortunate way out of being killed by a legitimate god, stealing her weapon in the process. In some instances, WOTC frankly screws up its consistency and skews things in favor of planeswalkers almost always. Its obnoxious and undermines the head legendaries of certain planes to do this which should never be the case. I only excuse it because Avacyn could have killed both Jace and Tamiyo, Thassa and Heliod had never encountered a planeswalker before and the Silence had deprived them of devotion (convenient), and well, there's no excusing BFZ but I try to ignore that ever happened.
But as far as Nahiri one-shotting the dragon lords, she's a planeswalker and regrettably, they're going to get treated like god-like beings despite the mending that says they're just mages with the ability to traverse planes. And they're always going to be the main character - because planeswalkers. And when it comes down to a legendary or a planeswalker dying, despite how popular and unique to a world that legendary is - the legendary will die. We have a whole multiverse full of these dumb walkers and leave it to the unique, flavorful characters that set the tone of a world to get the axe in order to tell planeswalker soap operas.
So yes. The precious dragons are dead. And that's obnoxious because Bolas said to Lilliana that breaking her contract was no easy task when it meant challenging 4 demon lords - a great feat even to him (as it should be) as he admitted. I'll buy Bolas defeating Night's Reach despite her being a major deity on Kamigawa because he's Bolas. Any other PWs, beyond perhaps Ugin, and it's just embarrassing to even imply that. Now the Sisters of Flesh and Spirit vs. Bolas - not so much IMO. Legends like them, or Thassa/Monocolor gods or Avacyn should be a big deal, always. Planes worship these beings. So give me a break when I read about some dumb arrogant fish crawling up to the god of the sea and facing an entire plane worth of krakens with summoning spells cast by one mortal mage. No dear.
Again, loud voices. Those people are more likely to respond to the polls Maro is doing, not to mention Dragons of Tarkir being less popular than Khans of Tarkir has a bit to do with Dragons being a poorly-designed set with few dragons and no fetches (compared to Khans being a slightly better set with fetches). The point I was trying to make is that not everyone thought that dragon-ruled Tarkir was worse than human-ruled Tarkir.
I am also a believer of "non-blue characters having functioning brains" and thought Nahiri beating Sorin was great. However, Ugin is arguably much stronger and has a better grasp on planar things than Sorin does. The thought that Nahiri could infiltrate Tarkir, pull off some stunt to take out even one Dragonlord without Ugin noticing is a huge stretch. If Nahiri isn't stupid/gone mad with power, she would seek out Ugin before trying to fight dragons so this plotline seems bad. Ugin himself is more likely to try and return the plane back to human rule than Nahiri is. Ugin also has more importance in the overall plot as an Eldrazi specialist and a possible adversary to Bolas so having him go down to Nahiri is a bad idea. Then again, Creative does whatever it wants and likes making planeswalkers look strong so whatever.
Hahahahahaha
Ironically, your assertion that KTK Tarkir wasn't as popular as DTK Tarkir is just as much of an assumption as anyone's assertion that it was as popular. Except saying that KTK was more popular isn't really an assumption at all because it's backed up by actual evidence and agreed upon by the majority of people. Wizards and Maro himself take into account all of the player base, not just "loud voices," and they still intend to return to wedges because original Tarkir was more popular. DTK was not a great set in most people's opinions, but KTK was very popular. That's not just because of fetches, it also featured (highly requested and long overdue) wedge factions, and it was actually a well-designed set from a mechanical standpoint. It was much better for both limited and constructed than DTK. These are, of course, my own opinions but they have been echoed by many, many other people, and, evidently, we are in the majority according to Wizards.
Btw, you're absolutely right that Ugin SHOULD defeat Nahiri. But the Gatewatch shouldn't have defeated the Eldrazi titans and that didn't stop creative from writing about it. There's no guarantee of that happening in Return to Tarkir's story (nor is there any guarantee of Ugin even being there). But it could happen, if creative wanted it to.
The Gatewatch had numerous advantages including the Oldwalkers' Hedron Network. Without it they couldn't possibly match the Titans. It was a one-time thing that they couldn't duplicate. It took decades to build the network. They also channeled the entire mana of Zendikar and barely made it.
As for Nahiri and the Dragonlords, she wouldn't need to fight them head on. The Broods are already warring, she just has to tip the balance.
She also has little reason to fight Ugin, when she shows up to talk to him he has a valid excuse. Besides the fact that even in new-walker mode he is way above her as a possible Elder Dragon. He would trounce her. It would be like Jace taking Bolas in a straight on fight.
So Tezzeret was rebuilt by Bolas. Question - what became of Silas Renn? I read he was defeated by Tezzeret but there's this weird part in the book about Bolas eating him or something, although the Wiki states he simply "lost horribly" and some of his etherium body parts were removed?
So Tezzeret was rebuilt by Bolas. Question - what became of Silas Renn? I read he was defeated by Tezzeret but there's this weird part in the book about Bolas eating him or something, although the Wiki states he simply "lost horribly" and some of his etherium body parts were removed?
He fought Tezzeret outside of the maze protected by Crucius' son Kemuel. Started out as a battle of magic but descended into them punching each other in the face. Eventually Silas Renn had most of his Etherium body split in half when Tezzeret closed a gate (magical portal type) with the old man's body halfway through. He puts his remaining body bits into a state of sleep with some invasive surgery, etherium needle style, and then dismembers him entirely save for the guy's head.
That's pretty creepy… Another reason to hate Tezzeret. Since Silas' body was largely etherium, save for his head though, I wonder if it counts as him dying? Or if he's still technically alive?
As for Nahiri and the Dragonlords, she wouldn't need to fight them head on. The Broods are already warring, she just has to tip the balance.
She also has little reason to fight Ugin, when she shows up to talk to him he has a valid excuse. Besides the fact that even in new-walker mode he is way above her as a possible Elder Dragon. He would trounce her. It would be like Jace taking Bolas in a straight on fight.
Considering Bolas got tricked and sealed in his own pocket plane by a non-planeswalker before, I wouldn't find it surprising if Nahiri was capable of doing the same with both the repaired Hedron Network (which she should still be capable of repairing) and the knowledge that Ugin can be sealed in it (that she might gain from Tarkir from either Sarkhan or the Dragonlords, mainly because I think Ugin isn't on Tarkir). It fits her concept of "poetic justice" in some way (she wanted Innistrad to pay for Sorin's ignorance, but for Ugin it will be more for the conscious decision to seal the Eldrazi in the first place - Sorin had no real bargaining power against that decision in the first place).
As for Nahiri and the Dragonlords, she wouldn't need to fight them head on. The Broods are already warring, she just has to tip the balance.
She also has little reason to fight Ugin, when she shows up to talk to him he has a valid excuse. Besides the fact that even in new-walker mode he is way above her as a possible Elder Dragon. He would trounce her. It would be like Jace taking Bolas in a straight on fight.
Considering Bolas got tricked and sealed in his own pocket plane by a non-planeswalker before, I wouldn't find it surprising if Nahiri was capable of doing the same with both the repaired Hedron Network (which she should still be capable of repairing) and the knowledge that Ugin can be sealed in it (that she might gain from Tarkir from either Sarkhan or the Dragonlords, mainly because I think Ugin isn't on Tarkir). It fits her concept of "poetic justice" in some way (she wanted Innistrad to pay for Sorin's ignorance, but for Ugin it will be more for the conscious decision to seal the Eldrazi in the first place - Sorin had no real bargaining power against that decision in the first place).
That actually does make sense. She finds out that Ulamog and Kozilek were destroyed and realized Ugin lied to her.
"I spent FIVE THOUSAND YEARS watching as the mere presence of the Eldrazi ravaged my plane and my people because YOU TOLD ME they couldn't be killed, AND IT WAS ALL A LIE!"
"I spent FIVE THOUSAND YEARS watching as the mere presence of the Eldrazi ravaged my plane and my people because YOU TOLD ME they couldn't be killed, AND IT WAS ALL A LIE!"
To be fair, Nahiri and Sorin tried to kill the Eldrazi before; if two Oldwalkers couldn't do it... well, I'd probably be safe to assume they couldn't be killed. I don't think Ugin lied; he probably assumed it couldn't be done.
However, while we're on the subject; using the Hedron Network to make Ulamog and Kozilek mortal and killable (which I consider to be a complete Deus Ex Machina, but still)... how did Nahiri not know it could do that? She BUILT the bloody things!
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If I am not mistaken, she does not know where Tarkir is, and even that it is Ugin's homeworld. But yeah, all it takes to know is to meet Bolas...
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
She tries Declaration in Stone again and takes 10 from DragonLady Kolaghan.
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She'd never been to Inistraad before either, but she managed to find it. If Nahiri vs Ugin is a direction that creative wants to go, there's really no reason that they couldn't just have her figure it out somehow.
Example:
We know that Nahiri spent decades working with Ugin to construct the hedron network. We also know that Ugin's magic is very unique, it's reasonable that Nahiri would recognize it instantly. Now that Ugin's been restored and has been offworld potentially leaving traces of himself all over the place, they could say that Nahiri stumbled across Ugin's "signature" and spent the time since she left Inistraad tracking him back to Tarkir (where his signature is strongest, no doubt). Now, Nahiri's not a tracker per se, but it's likely a skill that was commonplace among Kor, and imperfect technique/skill in it could explain why it is she ends up at the strongest signature, rather than the most recent (thus why Ugin's not on Tarkir to simply eat her).
The Dragonlords, having been born of Ugin's magic would obviously have a strong signature, which would be what ultimately brings them into her cross-hairs. Much like (from her point of view) Sorin forsook her for Inistraad and it's protections, Ugin forsook her for Tarkir and it's protectors.
You are right. I thought he trained her on Innistrad after her ascension, but the Stone and Blood story confirms she has not been there before. Still, she had a special bond with Sorin that allowed her to find him and Innistrad.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I don't think Sorin himself has been to Tarkir before we got there ourselves and he probably didn't bother to either until the Eldrazi were released. I daresay it wouldn't take Nahiri that long to find Tarkir is she really wanted to, Bolas involved or not. But given Ugin just left Sarkhan there I also foresee Nahiri vs Sarkhan before Ugin interferes (if he does).
Reminder that Nahiri, Sorin and Ugin are all oldwalkers and oldwalkers have a tendency to not recognize guilt. It took Emrakul and the Gatewatch to invoke some sort of semblance of it into a 200-year old one (Liliana) and the trio are at least 6700 years older than Liliana...
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|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I'd have bought it if her backstory were that her parents were aether pirates, and she inherited the fleet. That's about the only way I can see it being a reasonable accomplishment for someone so young.
Either way, she has a pet monkey, and if childhood taught me anything, its that being a thief with a pet monkey is a surefire insta-climb up the social ladder.
It would make sense if she inherited the fleet from her parents but apparently her parents are Consulate officials so that's pretty much ruled out. I guess that aging could be different for humans on Kaladesh (it certainly is on Ravnica), but at age 12 Chandra was still going to school and being a normal 12 year old, so how a 15 year old would have a very powerful position as a pirate is beyond me.
It just feels like shameless pandering to me. The whole thing feels like the fantasy of a horny but imaginative teenagers. We get it, 15 year olds play this game. If you want to put 15 year olds in the story, go ahead, but make it actually make sense instead of being completely ridiculous. Did anyone actually stop to think this through? Jesus, she doesn't even look 15. Look at the thread that spoiled her. Multiple people said she was hot (they assumed that she was in her 20s, because that's how she looks), but then retracted their statements when they learned her age. Why not just make her a few years older so that it's actually slightly believable? Or just make her a 15 year old badass pirate, but not a 15 year old badass pirate fleet commander.
As for the rest of the story, it could have been better. It was somewhat hard to follow, especially with the POV switching between Kari and Jace, without any spacing or notification for the change. Why not just choose one? Their minds are linked anyway, so either one can get plot-relevant information from the other. Why even switch POV at all? It felt like the story kept repeating "Kari is a pirate" and "Kari has a pet monkey" over and over again, which was annoying. The monkey felt cartoonish, Disney-like, and just generally horrible as an element of the story. Yes, people like monkeys but don't make it feel like a Disney princess's pet for the love of God!
This isn't the fault of the writer, but I feel like the whole pirate thing came out of the blue. There was nothing in Kaladesh indicating piracy of any kind on the plane. If you had asked anyone if Kaladesh had pirates before Aether Revolt, they would have said no. There should have been at least one pirate or pirate-related card in Kaladesh. It didn't have to be a top-down pirate; they could have flavored just about any preexisting U, B, or R creature that's either energy-related or evasive as an Aether pirate. In Aether Revolt we only got two pirates, and no pirate ships (despite other flying vehicle existing). I like the idea of Kaladesh's pirates in general (just not the execution in this story) and I want to see a lot more when we return.
Yeah, at least Domri Rade is believable, in that he's not an authority figure; he's just someone whose Spark ignited WAY earlier than most. But a Pirate Captain/Admiral at age 15? That's going a bit beyond suspension of disbelief.
She might not even have been the Dragon's Smile's Captain when the fleet was still around though. She is now, but she never indicated she was one back then either.
All because she said "my fleet" doesn't mean the fleet belonged to her, I think she's saying it like she would say "my family", but since they're pirates, fleet is the term they use, because to them it might as well be no different. All because she held so much pride doesn't mean she had to be in charge of it, she could be proud of the accomplishments of her entire "family", regardless of her actual rank. She's a R Sky Pirate, pretty sure that is all pride and emotion placed into "fleet=family".
Really wished she talked more about her mentor at least (if not the whole hierarchy), because her mention felt rather off-hand, but from that small bit of text we couldn't really tell how she really felt about her fleet either.
I thought Tarkir with dragons was infinitely better than another warring plane with humans. Don't go assuming things based on a couple of loud voices.
Also, Nahiri beating one ancient, sentient dragon, let alone five with their own human armies and respawning dragonstorms? Calling it a stretch would be an understatement. She doesn't have something like Emrakul to bait in to Tarkir any more. This is all assuming that Ugin doesn't show up and if he does, it's a wrap for Nahiri, prep-time or otherwise.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
Nahiri wouldn't likely be facing down five dragons though. She'd more likely be facing one dragon, five times. She also has her leyline manipulation/mana focusing ability that thus far we have absolutely no idea the potential of, and the posibility of her own human(oid) armies in all those displeased with the Dragonlords' rule.
We also have no idea if the dragonstorms require Ugin's presence on the plane, or if they continue without him there. If creative really wants to go back to Wedge World as opposed to Dragon World (and IIRC MaRo did mention that Wedge actually turned out to be more popular as a whole), then that would be as simple as them saying "Nope. No Ugin, no Dragonstorms."
I'm not saying one way or another that anything of the sort will/wont happen, just highlighting how it reasonably could.
Lol. It's not just a couple of loud voices. Maro has said, on multiple occasions, that they thought that the dragon world would be more popular than the wedge world, but they ended up being dead wrong. He has also said that it would be very difficult to do Tarkir without wedges, and a return would probably require going back to wedge factions somehow. So don't go assuming things based on your own opinion. Wedge Tarkir was more poular than dragon Tarkir and a return will almost certainly find a way to make the latter resemble the former.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Nahiri wouldn't take on all of Tarkir's dragons head-on. She's angry, but not stupid. In both imprisoning the Eldrazi and attacking Innistrad, she underwent lots of preparation and planning (which is not exclusive to blue characters, contrary to popular belief). She could find a way to defeat most or all of the dragonlords, and maybe even Ugin, if creative wanted her to do so. Given that Return to Tarkir will have to bring back the wedge factions in the same way that RTR brought back guilds and SOI got rid of Avacyn, it would certainly be plausible for creative to use Nahiri to take down some dragons.
I am also a believer of "non-blue characters having functioning brains" and thought Nahiri beating Sorin was great. However, Ugin is arguably much stronger and has a better grasp on planar things than Sorin does. The thought that Nahiri could infiltrate Tarkir, pull off some stunt to take out even one Dragonlord without Ugin noticing is a huge stretch. If Nahiri isn't stupid/gone mad with power, she would seek out Ugin before trying to fight dragons so this plotline seems bad. Ugin himself is more likely to try and return the plane back to human rule than Nahiri is. Ugin also has more importance in the overall plot as an Eldrazi specialist and a possible adversary to Bolas so having him go down to Nahiri is a bad idea. Then again, Creative does whatever it wants and likes making planeswalkers look strong so whatever.
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
That's market research speaking. And if I must accept that Kamigawa is "unpopular" even based on market research well over 12 years old now, then it's a fact that the data from two years ago regarding Tarkir is the real deal. And for the record, I have been highly vocal about hating both Tarkirs. Even more than Ravnica and Kaladesh. Maro has stated the desire to return to wedge block ruled by khans based on the lessons learned.
While I agree a planeswalker should not be able to take out the dragon lords of Tarkir, that didn't seem to help when a small group of them took down two Eldrazi titans more ancient than the very planes those characters were from, or when one of them talked her highly fortunate way out of being killed by a legitimate god, stealing her weapon in the process. In some instances, WOTC frankly screws up its consistency and skews things in favor of planeswalkers almost always. Its obnoxious and undermines the head legendaries of certain planes to do this which should never be the case. I only excuse it because Avacyn could have killed both Jace and Tamiyo, Thassa and Heliod had never encountered a planeswalker before and the Silence had deprived them of devotion (convenient), and well, there's no excusing BFZ but I try to ignore that ever happened.
But as far as Nahiri one-shotting the dragon lords, she's a planeswalker and regrettably, they're going to get treated like god-like beings despite the mending that says they're just mages with the ability to traverse planes. And they're always going to be the main character - because planeswalkers. And when it comes down to a legendary or a planeswalker dying, despite how popular and unique to a world that legendary is - the legendary will die. We have a whole multiverse full of these dumb walkers and leave it to the unique, flavorful characters that set the tone of a world to get the axe in order to tell planeswalker soap operas.
So yes. The precious dragons are dead. And that's obnoxious because Bolas said to Lilliana that breaking her contract was no easy task when it meant challenging 4 demon lords - a great feat even to him (as it should be) as he admitted. I'll buy Bolas defeating Night's Reach despite her being a major deity on Kamigawa because he's Bolas. Any other PWs, beyond perhaps Ugin, and it's just embarrassing to even imply that. Now the Sisters of Flesh and Spirit vs. Bolas - not so much IMO. Legends like them, or Thassa/Monocolor gods or Avacyn should be a big deal, always. Planes worship these beings. So give me a break when I read about some dumb arrogant fish crawling up to the god of the sea and facing an entire plane worth of krakens with summoning spells cast by one mortal mage. No dear.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Hahahahahaha
Ironically, your assertion that KTK Tarkir wasn't as popular as DTK Tarkir is just as much of an assumption as anyone's assertion that it was as popular. Except saying that KTK was more popular isn't really an assumption at all because it's backed up by actual evidence and agreed upon by the majority of people. Wizards and Maro himself take into account all of the player base, not just "loud voices," and they still intend to return to wedges because original Tarkir was more popular. DTK was not a great set in most people's opinions, but KTK was very popular. That's not just because of fetches, it also featured (highly requested and long overdue) wedge factions, and it was actually a well-designed set from a mechanical standpoint. It was much better for both limited and constructed than DTK. These are, of course, my own opinions but they have been echoed by many, many other people, and, evidently, we are in the majority according to Wizards.
Btw, you're absolutely right that Ugin SHOULD defeat Nahiri. But the Gatewatch shouldn't have defeated the Eldrazi titans and that didn't stop creative from writing about it. There's no guarantee of that happening in Return to Tarkir's story (nor is there any guarantee of Ugin even being there). But it could happen, if creative wanted it to.
As for Nahiri and the Dragonlords, she wouldn't need to fight them head on. The Broods are already warring, she just has to tip the balance.
She also has little reason to fight Ugin, when she shows up to talk to him he has a valid excuse. Besides the fact that even in new-walker mode he is way above her as a possible Elder Dragon. He would trounce her. It would be like Jace taking Bolas in a straight on fight.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Considering Bolas got tricked and sealed in his own pocket plane by a non-planeswalker before, I wouldn't find it surprising if Nahiri was capable of doing the same with both the repaired Hedron Network (which she should still be capable of repairing) and the knowledge that Ugin can be sealed in it (that she might gain from Tarkir from either Sarkhan or the Dragonlords, mainly because I think Ugin isn't on Tarkir). It fits her concept of "poetic justice" in some way (she wanted Innistrad to pay for Sorin's ignorance, but for Ugin it will be more for the conscious decision to seal the Eldrazi in the first place - Sorin had no real bargaining power against that decision in the first place).
That actually does make sense. She finds out that Ulamog and Kozilek were destroyed and realized Ugin lied to her.
"I spent FIVE THOUSAND YEARS watching as the mere presence of the Eldrazi ravaged my plane and my people because YOU TOLD ME they couldn't be killed, AND IT WAS ALL A LIE!"
To be fair, Nahiri and Sorin tried to kill the Eldrazi before; if two Oldwalkers couldn't do it... well, I'd probably be safe to assume they couldn't be killed. I don't think Ugin lied; he probably assumed it couldn't be done.
However, while we're on the subject; using the Hedron Network to make Ulamog and Kozilek mortal and killable (which I consider to be a complete Deus Ex Machina, but still)... how did Nahiri not know it could do that? She BUILT the bloody things!