I do hope we see this character again and that he interacts with Nissa.
Something in my chest sings a little, but the song isn't for me. My waking mind tells me to ignore the strange humming I feel at a distance. I turn to Chandra.
That line was interesting to me and I hope it'll be brought up again.
Sounds like Aetherborn, or at least Yahenni, can feel when someone uses Magic.
Considering how Nissa likens them to elementals its more probable that the same spell she uses to call out and craft elementals resonates with the aetherborn because they are at heart elementals.
I know that in another thread we have confirmation of Ashiok NOT being an Aetherborn, and I'm not trying to rehash anything, I just think it's curious that Ashiok is gender neutral and all of the pronouns used for Aetherborn in today's story were also gender neutral.
I know that in another thread we have confirmation of Ashiok NOT being an Aetherborn, and I'm not trying to rehash anything, I just think it's curious that Ashiok is gender neutral and all of the pronouns used for Aetherborn in today's story were also gender neutral.
It is intersting that they would create the Aetherborn to so closely resemble Ashiok (they could have just made them a different color and it would have been enough to dissociate the two for most people).
I suppose the main difference is that Ashiok is a gender neutral individual from a race that does presumably have biological gender. Aetherborn literally don't have gender.
I know that in another thread we have confirmation of Ashiok NOT being an Aetherborn, and I'm not trying to rehash anything, I just think it's curious that Ashiok is gender neutral and all of the pronouns used for Aetherborn in today's story were also gender neutral.
It is intersting that they would create the Aetherborn to so closely resemble Ashiok ...
Looking closer at the art of the aetherborn and Ashiok you can see how different they really look, you can see the blue of the aetherborn under their skin where it is broken away, none of the aetherborn seem to have mouths and a few other details.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
After the first-person disaster sob story that was I Am Avacyn, I'm pleased that this first-person narrative story is far more enjoyable. I like the interaction and the lively atmosphere even when considering some of the sad parts (though I question how is it that the Aetherborn could be so sure how many days they have left to live... too accurate for my liking). Good one.
And lol at the semi-love-at-first-sight story between Yaheeni and Nissa
I enjoyed this story. It was a different approach to a black (magic colourwise) protagonist. Yaheeni's hosting grand parties entertains her guests as well as feeding her own special brand of hedonism, a type hedonism that in my opinion seemed rather benign.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Wizards did confirm we will see Yahenni again in a reply on the Magic FB page. So we can look forward to at least on more story, hopefully a card too.
[I'd post a link, but cannot access FB at the moment.]
It will be Nissa attending Naheeni's final party I bet. It will be at the story's close and will see Nissa thanking Naheeni in some way as now perhaps Nissa will be able to cope with the city bustle and hustle of Ravnica.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Welp, most everyone has covered what I already would say about today'so story. It feels like that for years Magic's story tried to sanction off black as the "antagonist color," but things recently have started to swing away from that. Toshiro, Sorin, Drana, Lili to an extent and now Yahenni show depth to the color it rarely gets. Black is about the self-first, true. But like Drana showed in memories of blood the love of self can manifest in odd ways. One can care for others because it benefits themselves - either in some form of companionship, community or a self-centered sense of duty and ownership as for Drana or in the sense of joy one who communes with others emotionally can take in from them. It's really an interesting philosophical point when you think about it.
More to the point and away from my incoherent prattle, I love the Aetherborn overall. They really feel unique and fun, and add something different to the game. Some races can feel similar based on how they play or look, like humans, dwarves and Kor, but aetherborn don't play very much like Vampires, Zombies or Nim. Several of their abilities in game are about theft and prolonging life through the swiping of counters or granting indestructible, and that accompanies the Vorthos aspect of their 4 year lifespan quite well. I love the flavor and gameplay.
Would love to see more of them in story and cards, and I honestly think that they're the think I'm most excited for in this block and hopefully beyond in future sets and worlds.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
I immensely enjoyed this Magic Story entry, although at first I was apprehensive of the first person way it was being told (oddly my very recent favourite Magic Story is a non-Gatewatch heavy entry).
I relate Yahenni to senior figures that have acquired so much wisdom and experience in their lifetimes.
Maybe part of the satisfaction I get from the kinds of Yahenni's Magic Story is that she won't suffer from the continuity problems that the Neowalkers get down the line, due in part to the rather short lives of Aetherborns (I never expected them to live THAT short...)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
...Is nobody taking into account Baral's chat with Pia happened after Chandra set his everything on fire, and he got in trouble for the excessive use of funds to hunt a small child who then burned most of his face off?
Cause on the one hand he was a sorta jerkbag Knigth's Templar in Fire Logic. And clearly had a hard-on for power and wasn't disgusted cutting off the heads of little girls. But I can see him being far more interested in Chandra and her family suffering after, you know, Chandra exploded and set him on fire.
Lol, this is it. The dude is pissed, just got proved right at how dangerous and destructive the Nalaars were, and is gloating. That's not evil. Dickish, maybe.
"Children?" He barked out a humorless laugh. "Of course. Who better to misuse their abilities for selfish or misguided purposes. Besides, the years make little change to natural criminal dispositions, as you yourself evidence."
Baral is absolutely right. Remember: Chandra blew up an entire factory! It was pure luck she didn't kill anyone. The Nalaars were reckless enough to send their young, impulsive child on an illegal smuggling mission. There's nothing sympathetic about them, they were terrible, terrible parents who sat on their butts at home while their daughter risked her life. And someone I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?
I'm sure everyone else has said this but the Aetherborn are awesome. In fact the only bad thing about them is that they don't seem like they'll fit anywhere else which means we won't get to see them not often.
While I really enjoyed yesterday's story (writing could have been better, but it's perfectly acceptable) and also the character Yahenni, of which I want to see more, I have to disagree with them being an "interesting" take on a black character. It's not that I think they're boring. It's simply that I don't think they're a black character. Infact, I would go and say they're not really tied to any specific colour at all. They have aspects of all of them. Though, interestingly, the closest being red (they want to do whatever they want, even going as far as stepping down from their position). They even have that dilemma between prolonging their life at the cost of "someone else". For an actual black character that question wouldn't be such a hard one. While a black character does not need to be a murderer or whatever, at least they should be self-centered, which Yahenni absolutely wasn't. You could find bits of other colours in all of their behaviour, even green with all that "accepting death when it comes" talk. You can make very interesting and even benign black characters by playing up the ambition and fame aspect, but this was not the case. It would have also been easily solved. Just make it an important point that Yahenni wants to host the best parties. Yes, it was hinted at, but it got drowned out and thus wasn't as prominent as the other aspects that could be used to explain other colours into their character.
Yahenni was a very enjoyable character and I really hope to see more of them, but an interesting black character they were not.
This gets all the more infuriating when it's coming right off the heels of Nissa's mass retocons.
Nissa did not have mass retcons. Nissa had some retcons, but not really any more than anyone else. Read this.
Some people call it retcon, some call it a horribly executed turn in personality. In the end it's a matter of semantics, but you can't deny that the Nissa that was introduced in Zendikar and the Nissa we got in Origins are so vastly different that the thin veil of "omg reasons" absolutely does not make up for her sharp 180° turn. I suppose technically it's not a retcon, but it might very well be and it speaks volumes that so many people describe it as one despite the fact that Wizards tried to create a smooth transition.
This is my frustration with the Vorthos community. People clamor for complex characters, but then reduce Baral to a cartoon villain without actually thinking about his motivations. #Baralwasright. Chandra is a menace.
This gets all the more infuriating when it's coming right off the heels of Nissa's mass retocons.
Nissa did not have mass retcons. Nissa had some retcons, but not really any more than anyone else. Read this.
Some people call it retcon, some call it a horribly executed turn in personality. In the end it's a matter of semantics, but you can't deny that the Nissa that was introduced in Zendikar and the Nissa we got in Origins are so vastly different that the thin veil of "omg reasons" absolutely does not make up for her sharp 180° turn. I suppose technically it's not a retcon, but it might very well be and it speaks volumes that so many people describe it as one despite the fact that Wizards tried to create a smooth transition.
The Nissa in Origins is decades younger than the Nissa in In the Teeth of Akoum, for one. Homesick mentions it's been two score years since what I presume is her origin story. And then it's been at least two years since then when we meet her again in Battle for Zendikar (with Worldwake happening in between, showing her character changing... for good reason, because she's responsible for dooming her own plane - that changes you).
Just because you don't want to have to imagine years of character change between appearances doesn't make it a horribly executed turn in personality. It IS a retcon, sure, and not a minor one to make her an animist, but having read origins, than In the Teeth of Akoum, then Worldwake and BFZ back-to-back-to-back and realizing their are large gaps in between, nothing is so horribly out of place as to justify the level of derision it gets. It's because we all read the Magic Duels bio for Nissa into her character in Akoum, not because she was written that way. Believe me, I looked. I tried to find the passages that show Nissa as an elf racist, and they don't exist. The closest ones I've got I posted in that link.
This is my frustration with the Vorthos community. People clamor for complex characters, but then reduce Baral to a cartoon villain without actually thinking about his motivations. #Baralwasright. Chandra is a menace.
You're confusing motivation with backstory. Baral might have a backstory as to why he might be bitter (bitter is not the same as sadistic!), but he doesn't have a motivation to "NOW I AM MENTALLY TORTURING CHANDRA'S MOTHER BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" and then rubbing his hands together in glee.
The Nissa in Origins is decades younger than the Nissa in In the Teeth of Akoum, for one. Homesick mentions it's been two score years since what I presume is her origin story. And then it's been at least two years since then when we meet her again in Battle for Zendikar (with Worldwake happening in between, showing her character changing... for good reason, because she's responsible for dooming her own plane - that changes you).
Just because you don't want to have to imagine years of character change between appearances doesn't make it a horribly executed turn in personality. It IS a retcon, sure, and not a minor one to make her an animist, but having read origins, than In the Teeth of Akoum, then Worldwake and BFZ back-to-back-to-back and realizing their are large gaps in between, nothing is so horribly out of place as to justify the level of derision it gets. It's because we all read the Magic Duels bio for Nissa into her character in Akoum, not because she was written that way. Believe me, I looked. I tried to find the passages that show Nissa as an elf racist, and they don't exist. The closest ones I've got I posted in that link.
Sigh.
It is not about what is technically correct. Sure, if we only go by explicitly said information there might not be a break (debatable), but do you know why both Nissas feel entirely different? Because they were designed to be different. Everything from their blurb to flavour text quotes, even down to their artwork, you could see how the old Nissa was a stuck up elf supremacist, turning up her nose at everything non-elf. Then they went and changed it, with Nissa have unprecented abilities, working together with non-elves without so much as a second thought and even going to comfort a mourning goblin without any sort of inner reflection to how her old self wouldn't have done it. Everything about the old Nissa was done in a completely different direction. We might not have seen all of those things explicitly word for word in the materials, but it was there, in feel and in theme.
We can spend days collecting actual quotes, materials and whatever to "prove" that Nissa was always like her new incarnation, but the very fact that so many people think there's a massive disconnect between the two already shows that the character shift didn't work as well as Wizards hoped, no matter how "wrong" or "right" the audience is. (Protip: When the audience doesn't understand something, it's usually not the fault of the audience.)
As for the time, that's a small syndrome of headcanon justification. Yes, I can justify things that have not been shown (or at least stated) in the materials, but it's not my job to smooth out inconsistencies. It's the job of the author.
This gets all the more infuriating when it's coming right off the heels of Nissa's mass retocons.
Nissa did not have mass retcons. Nissa had some retcons, but not really any more than anyone else. Read this.
Honestly, I think Nissa's changes could easily have felt fluid and sensible if we had been there to see them not just be told/had them inferred to us.
I'd have loved to have been witness to Nissa growing as a character. Realizing that other races had their way of contributing. That cooperation was beneficial. That when it really came down to it, difference could be a GOOD thing. To have seen her accept others along side herself.
But we didn't get that. We got someone who essentially felt like a much different character from one appearance to the next.
This gets all the more infuriating when it's coming right off the heels of Nissa's mass retocons.
Nissa did not have mass retcons. Nissa had some retcons, but not really any more than anyone else. Read this.
Honestly, I think Nissa's changes could easily have felt fluid and sensible if we had been there to see them not just be told/had them inferred to us.
I'd have loved to have been witness to Nissa growing as a character. Realizing that other races had their way of contributing. That cooperation was beneficial. That when it really came down to it, difference could be a GOOD thing. To have seen her accept others along side herself.
But we didn't get that. We got someone who essentially felt like a much different character from one appearance to the next.
The problem is that Nissa's Origin reads like its the Nissa from after that story when it is before she learns to like others. Also this is the big problem with the old story(post-weatherlight/pre-origins)there were so many years in-between the relevant stories that players headcannon builds up more than the actual story, selective memory is real.
This is my frustration with the Vorthos community. People clamor for complex characters, but then reduce Baral to a cartoon villain without actually thinking about his motivations. #Baralwasright. Chandra is a menace.
You're confusing motivation with backstory. Baral might have a backstory as to why he might be bitter (bitter is not the same as sadistic!), but he doesn't have a motivation to "NOW I AM MENTALLY TORTURING CHANDRA'S MOTHER BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" and then rubbing his hands together in glee.
The Nissa in Origins is decades younger than the Nissa in In the Teeth of Akoum, for one. Homesick mentions it's been two score years since what I presume is her origin story. And then it's been at least two years since then when we meet her again in Battle for Zendikar (with Worldwake happening in between, showing her character changing... for good reason, because she's responsible for dooming her own plane - that changes you).
Just because you don't want to have to imagine years of character change between appearances doesn't make it a horribly executed turn in personality. It IS a retcon, sure, and not a minor one to make her an animist, but having read origins, than In the Teeth of Akoum, then Worldwake and BFZ back-to-back-to-back and realizing their are large gaps in between, nothing is so horribly out of place as to justify the level of derision it gets. It's because we all read the Magic Duels bio for Nissa into her character in Akoum, not because she was written that way. Believe me, I looked. I tried to find the passages that show Nissa as an elf racist, and they don't exist. The closest ones I've got I posted in that link.
Sigh.
It is not about what is technically correct. Sure, if we only go by explicitly said information there might not be a break (debatable), but do you know why both Nissas feel entirely different? Because they were designed to be different. Everything from their blurb to flavour text quotes, even down to their artwork, you could see how the old Nissa was a stuck up elf supremacist, turning up her nose at everything non-elf. Then they went and changed it, with Nissa have unprecented abilities, working together with non-elves without so much as a second thought and even going to comfort a mourning goblin without any sort of inner reflection to how her old self wouldn't have done it. Everything about the old Nissa was done in a completely different direction. We might not have seen all of those things explicitly word for word in the materials, but it was there, in feel and in theme.
We can spend days collecting actual quotes, materials and whatever to "prove" that Nissa was always like her new incarnation, but the very fact that so many people think there's a massive disconnect between the two already shows that the character shift didn't work as well as Wizards hoped, no matter how "wrong" or "right" the audience is. (Protip: When the audience doesn't understand something, it's usually not the fault of the audience.)
As for the time, that's a small syndrome of headcanon justification. Yes, I can justify things that have not been shown (or at least stated) in the materials, but it's not my job to smooth out inconsistencies. It's the job of the author.
Because the Nissa pre-Origins filled a different role than the Nissa post-Origins. Yes, they feel like different characters because they play different roles in the story. The Nissa from Zendikar block would be a hard puzzle piece to fit into a bigger, less Zendikar-centered narrative. Most walkers were at the time, the easiest walkers to fit into bigger narratives were Gideon (save everyone), Jace (investigate everything), and Garruk (hunt stuff!). Much like how scores of comic book characters receive massive retcons when going from secondary or tertiary characters in someone else's book to primary characters headlining their own book.
Inconsistent writing is also something that happens when a character/world/plot created by one author is being used/explored/fitted to another writer's style and narrative. Chandra feels different when someone who isn't Doug is writing her, but that'll happen. This feature/flaw is innate to the nature of story in this format with this creative team, you can either be fine with it (and in this case this is a positive change because trying to make past Nissa functional in current stories would be hell), or you're not.
And if you're not fine with it you should just walk away now, this isn't going to get better. Most walkers outside of the Lorwyn walkers were tough to just make part of stories they had no business being party to. They retconned the source of Elspeth's sword to fit her into Theros, change is the only constant in these stories.
ENOUGH OF THIS DEBATE!
This is NOT the point of this Forum. This Forum is to discuss Kaledesh and its story.
The fact that the moderator is even contributing to this violation of the point of this forum is Frustrating!
No more Nissa Characterization debate here. There are plenty of other forums for that.
Lets get back to Kaledesh and debating its story.
(Edit: I'm not a moderator but I think this needs to stop)
Let's refocus the discussion back to Kaladesh specifically. We can spin the discussion of Nissa off into a separate thread and continue there.
Rereading the thread, this discussion isn't actually off topic. It's bringing up some very good points that are relevant to the discussion at hand. Carry on.
This is my frustration with the Vorthos community. People clamor for complex characters, but then reduce Baral to a cartoon villain without actually thinking about his motivations. #Baralwasright. Chandra is a menace.
You're confusing motivation with backstory. Baral might have a backstory as to why he might be bitter (bitter is not the same as sadistic!), but he doesn't have a motivation to "NOW I AM MENTALLY TORTURING CHANDRA'S MOTHER BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" and then rubbing his hands together in glee.
I think both sides of the argument are valid. On the one hand the more in-depth look into his character as presented on this forum makes him a lot more compelling and less cartoony, but on the other hand you still need to have a side to you that takes that backstory and uses it as a motivation to go and mentally torture someone in the way he did.
Disregarding his motivations and backstory, we are in the end dealing with an antagonist who is clearly very unlikeable and therefore it is easy for someone following the story to pick sides. Yes, I understand why he's bitter and why he would view the Nalaars and Chandra as a threat, but his actions do not put me in a position where I am now somehow conflicted as to what I want to happen in the end. Baral needs to go down. Simple. Chandra, torch the man and build a sand castle!
On the other hand, look at Yahenni. The way they portrayed him, would we as a reader have wanted him to be brought to justice if he had chosen to essence drain the guard at the end of the story? I mean, really when you get down to it, it would have been a deploreable act. We know nothing of this man, he might be the nicest guy ever when he isn't in uniform and right now he was just doing his job. But I think most of us like Yahenni and as such it is a lot harder for us to see him having to be brought down by Nissa in this hypothetical storyline. If you give Baral a similar treatment, it makes for a more engaging read imo. Who knows, maybe future stories will show things from his point of view and it will flesh him out more.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Affinity
UW Control
Commander
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Dragonlord Ojutai
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
The Ur-Dragon
I think both sides of the argument are valid. On the one hand the more in-depth look into his character as presented on this forum makes him a lot more compelling and less cartoony, but on the other hand you still need to have a side to you that takes that backstory and uses it as a motivation to go and mentally torture someone in the way he did.
Disregarding his motivations and backstory, we are in the end dealing with an antagonist who is clearly very unlikeable and therefore it is easy for someone following the story to pick sides. Yes, I understand why he's bitter and why he would view the Nalaars and Chandra as a threat, but his actions do not put me in a position where I am now somehow conflicted as to what I want to happen in the end. Baral needs to go down. Simple. Chandra, torch the man and build a sand castle!
On the other hand, look at Yahenni. The way they portrayed him, would we as a reader have wanted him to be brought to justice if he had chosen to essence drain the guard at the end of the story? I mean, really when you get down to it, it would have been a deploreable act. We know nothing of this man, he might be the nicest guy ever when he isn't in uniform and right now he was just doing his job. But I think most of us like Yahenni and as such it is a lot harder for us to see him having to be brought down by Nissa in this hypothetical storyline. If you give Baral a similar treatment, it makes for a more engaging read imo. Who knows, maybe future stories will show things from his point of view and it will flesh him out more.
Yaheeni is the POV character, we are suppose to feel what they feel, and come at things from their position. They saw a fellow aetherborn die, and they would have died alone in a cell instead of at a party surrounded by people having fun. From that mindset, that guard is a villain.
Had we followed the guard through his grueling day of keeping the peace and dealing with trouble, Nissa and Yaheeni would be the villains preventing him from doing his job.
Who we follow is as important as what they do, because we know why Nissa, Chandra, Pia, and Yaheeni do what they do. Baral we can guess at, and in the end, more than not, why Baral is who he is won't matter to Pia, or Chandra, or Nissa. They won't really care.
You're confusing motivation with backstory. Baral might have a backstory as to why he might be bitter (bitter is not the same as sadistic!), but he doesn't have a motivation to "NOW I AM MENTALLY TORTURING CHANDRA'S MOTHER BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" and then rubbing his hands together in glee.
From Baral's point of view, Chandra was a bomb waiting to explode and Pia Nalaar is a terrorist (rather than revolutionary, which is how we're supposed to view her). Chandra burns Baral horribly, and Baral apparently loses his Captaincy because he's suddenly Lieutenant Baral, for doing what he believed to be the right thing.
Occasionally stopping by on his rounds to gloat doesn't seem sadistic.
You're confusing motivation with backstory. Baral might have a backstory as to why he might be bitter (bitter is not the same as sadistic!), but he doesn't have a motivation to "NOW I AM MENTALLY TORTURING CHANDRA'S MOTHER BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" and then rubbing his hands together in glee.
From Baral's point of view, Chandra was a bomb waiting to explode and Pia Nalaar is a terrorist (rather than revolutionary, which is how we're supposed to view her). Chandra burns Baral horribly, and Baral apparently loses his Captaincy because he's suddenly Lieutenant Baral, for doing what he believed to be the right thing.
Occasionally stopping by on his rounds to gloat doesn't seem sadistic.
No it does, it is the definition of sadistic.
He doesn't feel that he's wrong, he probably doesn't even feel that Pia or Chandra is human in his eyes. He might even believe inflicting suffering on them is just, balancing the scales on the pain and damage they have caused. But what he is doing is sadistic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hadn't thought of that. Good point.
Wizards did confirm we will see Yahenni again in a reply on the Magic FB page. So we can look forward to at least on more story, hopefully a card too.
[I'd post a link, but cannot access FB at the moment.]
It is intersting that they would create the Aetherborn to so closely resemble Ashiok (they could have just made them a different color and it would have been enough to dissociate the two for most people).
I suppose the main difference is that Ashiok is a gender neutral individual from a race that does presumably have biological gender. Aetherborn literally don't have gender.
Looking closer at the art of the aetherborn and Ashiok you can see how different they really look, you can see the blue of the aetherborn under their skin where it is broken away, none of the aetherborn seem to have mouths and a few other details.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And lol at the semi-love-at-first-sight story between Yaheeni and Nissa
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
It will be Nissa attending Naheeni's final party I bet. It will be at the story's close and will see Nissa thanking Naheeni in some way as now perhaps Nissa will be able to cope with the city bustle and hustle of Ravnica.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
More to the point and away from my incoherent prattle, I love the Aetherborn overall. They really feel unique and fun, and add something different to the game. Some races can feel similar based on how they play or look, like humans, dwarves and Kor, but aetherborn don't play very much like Vampires, Zombies or Nim. Several of their abilities in game are about theft and prolonging life through the swiping of counters or granting indestructible, and that accompanies the Vorthos aspect of their 4 year lifespan quite well. I love the flavor and gameplay.
Would love to see more of them in story and cards, and I honestly think that they're the think I'm most excited for in this block and hopefully beyond in future sets and worlds.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
I relate Yahenni to senior figures that have acquired so much wisdom and experience in their lifetimes.
Maybe part of the satisfaction I get from the kinds of Yahenni's Magic Story is that she won't suffer from the continuity problems that the Neowalkers get down the line, due in part to the rather short lives of Aetherborns (I never expected them to live THAT short...)
Serra Stan - Angel Enthusiast - Garruk and Tyvar thirsty follower - Flavor and Art Enthusiast
Lol, this is it. The dude is pissed, just got proved right at how dangerous and destructive the Nalaars were, and is gloating. That's not evil. Dickish, maybe.
Baral is absolutely right. Remember: Chandra blew up an entire factory! It was pure luck she didn't kill anyone. The Nalaars were reckless enough to send their young, impulsive child on an illegal smuggling mission. There's nothing sympathetic about them, they were terrible, terrible parents who sat on their butts at home while their daughter risked her life. And someone I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Yahenni was a very enjoyable character and I really hope to see more of them, but an interesting black character they were not.
Some people call it retcon, some call it a horribly executed turn in personality. In the end it's a matter of semantics, but you can't deny that the Nissa that was introduced in Zendikar and the Nissa we got in Origins are so vastly different that the thin veil of "omg reasons" absolutely does not make up for her sharp 180° turn. I suppose technically it's not a retcon, but it might very well be and it speaks volumes that so many people describe it as one despite the fact that Wizards tried to create a smooth transition.
The Nissa in Origins is decades younger than the Nissa in In the Teeth of Akoum, for one. Homesick mentions it's been two score years since what I presume is her origin story. And then it's been at least two years since then when we meet her again in Battle for Zendikar (with Worldwake happening in between, showing her character changing... for good reason, because she's responsible for dooming her own plane - that changes you).
Just because you don't want to have to imagine years of character change between appearances doesn't make it a horribly executed turn in personality. It IS a retcon, sure, and not a minor one to make her an animist, but having read origins, than In the Teeth of Akoum, then Worldwake and BFZ back-to-back-to-back and realizing their are large gaps in between, nothing is so horribly out of place as to justify the level of derision it gets. It's because we all read the Magic Duels bio for Nissa into her character in Akoum, not because she was written that way. Believe me, I looked. I tried to find the passages that show Nissa as an elf racist, and they don't exist. The closest ones I've got I posted in that link.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
You're confusing motivation with backstory. Baral might have a backstory as to why he might be bitter (bitter is not the same as sadistic!), but he doesn't have a motivation to "NOW I AM MENTALLY TORTURING CHANDRA'S MOTHER BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" and then rubbing his hands together in glee.
Sigh.
It is not about what is technically correct. Sure, if we only go by explicitly said information there might not be a break (debatable), but do you know why both Nissas feel entirely different? Because they were designed to be different. Everything from their blurb to flavour text quotes, even down to their artwork, you could see how the old Nissa was a stuck up elf supremacist, turning up her nose at everything non-elf. Then they went and changed it, with Nissa have unprecented abilities, working together with non-elves without so much as a second thought and even going to comfort a mourning goblin without any sort of inner reflection to how her old self wouldn't have done it. Everything about the old Nissa was done in a completely different direction. We might not have seen all of those things explicitly word for word in the materials, but it was there, in feel and in theme.
We can spend days collecting actual quotes, materials and whatever to "prove" that Nissa was always like her new incarnation, but the very fact that so many people think there's a massive disconnect between the two already shows that the character shift didn't work as well as Wizards hoped, no matter how "wrong" or "right" the audience is. (Protip: When the audience doesn't understand something, it's usually not the fault of the audience.)
As for the time, that's a small syndrome of headcanon justification. Yes, I can justify things that have not been shown (or at least stated) in the materials, but it's not my job to smooth out inconsistencies. It's the job of the author.
Honestly, I think Nissa's changes could easily have felt fluid and sensible if we had been there to see them not just be told/had them inferred to us.
I'd have loved to have been witness to Nissa growing as a character. Realizing that other races had their way of contributing. That cooperation was beneficial. That when it really came down to it, difference could be a GOOD thing. To have seen her accept others along side herself.
But we didn't get that. We got someone who essentially felt like a much different character from one appearance to the next.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Inconsistent writing is also something that happens when a character/world/plot created by one author is being used/explored/fitted to another writer's style and narrative. Chandra feels different when someone who isn't Doug is writing her, but that'll happen. This feature/flaw is innate to the nature of story in this format with this creative team, you can either be fine with it (and in this case this is a positive change because trying to make past Nissa functional in current stories would be hell), or you're not.
And if you're not fine with it you should just walk away now, this isn't going to get better. Most walkers outside of the Lorwyn walkers were tough to just make part of stories they had no business being party to. They retconned the source of Elspeth's sword to fit her into Theros, change is the only constant in these stories.
This is NOT the point of this Forum. This Forum is to discuss Kaledesh and its story.
The fact that the moderator is even contributing to this violation of the point of this forum is Frustrating!
No more Nissa Characterization debate here. There are plenty of other forums for that.
Lets get back to Kaledesh and debating its story.
(Edit: I'm not a moderator but I think this needs to stop)
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Let's refocus the discussion back to Kaladesh specifically. We can spin the discussion of Nissa off into a separate thread and continue there.Rereading the thread, this discussion isn't actually off topic. It's bringing up some very good points that are relevant to the discussion at hand. Carry on.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
I think both sides of the argument are valid. On the one hand the more in-depth look into his character as presented on this forum makes him a lot more compelling and less cartoony, but on the other hand you still need to have a side to you that takes that backstory and uses it as a motivation to go and mentally torture someone in the way he did.
Disregarding his motivations and backstory, we are in the end dealing with an antagonist who is clearly very unlikeable and therefore it is easy for someone following the story to pick sides. Yes, I understand why he's bitter and why he would view the Nalaars and Chandra as a threat, but his actions do not put me in a position where I am now somehow conflicted as to what I want to happen in the end. Baral needs to go down. Simple. Chandra, torch the man and build a sand castle!
On the other hand, look at Yahenni. The way they portrayed him, would we as a reader have wanted him to be brought to justice if he had chosen to essence drain the guard at the end of the story? I mean, really when you get down to it, it would have been a deploreable act. We know nothing of this man, he might be the nicest guy ever when he isn't in uniform and right now he was just doing his job. But I think most of us like Yahenni and as such it is a lot harder for us to see him having to be brought down by Nissa in this hypothetical storyline. If you give Baral a similar treatment, it makes for a more engaging read imo. Who knows, maybe future stories will show things from his point of view and it will flesh him out more.
Affinity
UW Control
Commander
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Dragonlord Ojutai
Gishath, Sun's Avatar
The Ur-Dragon
Had we followed the guard through his grueling day of keeping the peace and dealing with trouble, Nissa and Yaheeni would be the villains preventing him from doing his job.
Who we follow is as important as what they do, because we know why Nissa, Chandra, Pia, and Yaheeni do what they do. Baral we can guess at, and in the end, more than not, why Baral is who he is won't matter to Pia, or Chandra, or Nissa. They won't really care.
Occasionally stopping by on his rounds to gloat doesn't seem sadistic.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
He doesn't feel that he's wrong, he probably doesn't even feel that Pia or Chandra is human in his eyes. He might even believe inflicting suffering on them is just, balancing the scales on the pain and damage they have caused. But what he is doing is sadistic.