I'm big on the details. I can live with the story being spoiled in the cards and Fat Packs before the URs have addressed them to a degree, because I am just as interested in how. My issue this time was the relief I felt that the story had been spoiled somewhere other than the UR column. Kelly Digges on the other hand always delivers. Otherwise, URs felt like a fanfic that beat around the bush of an otherwise brilliant idea that hasn't been realized.
Look at Ashiok there. All they've done with this peculiar marketing choice is alienate one of the comparatively few people actively trying to follow their story. Maybe this changed his mind about Magic lore and made him question the wisdom in keeping up with magic lore, so now he won't buy their $30+ Zendikar artbook. That's $30 lost because they packed the URs with filler vs the $30 they could've made by not having filler every week. In the end, only one option costs money.
Does anyone here actually want to (or know someone else who wants to) a) spend less money on Magic or b) not buy story-related products you previously intended to buy because you don't like how they're handing the URs?
Personally, I like and follow the lore-related stuff, and am often the only one of my friends who even knows what the major plot events are. But I view the lore-related products as largely side attractions to the stuff I spend my money on, which is cards. I started in original Zendikar, and since then we've had two set novels (universally panned), two planeswalker novels (about characters I don't care about), a comic strip collection (I don't buy graphic novels), two ebooks (ditto), and a $30 coffee table art book (seems to appeal more to people who already collect art/prints than anything to do with story). My issues with spending money on story stuff are completely independent of whether the URs are good or bad. Even if the stories suddenly became z0MGWTFAMAZEBALLS it's not like I'd spend $30 on a product I neither want nor need just to give a tip to the writing team (who might not even see any of the proceeds, at least not directly). If I wanted to do that I'd much rather have an actual tip jar, Patreon, Kickstarter, etc.
And while I like details, I'd much rather the stories expand upon things in either the main plot or the planeswalkers' guides. e.g. for Tarkir, less Mantis Rider and random fight scenes, more ghostfire, Arel, non-human characters (8/10 human khans, and both nonhumans were villains...C'mon, you have a world with a ton of different races and it just so happens you don't have time to write about any nonhumans?)
Does anyone here actually want to (or know someone else who wants to) a) spend less money on Magic or b) not buy story-related products you previously intended to buy because you don't like how they're handing the URs?
I wouldn't buy less because of one storyline aspect for one set being handled badly, but if quality of all things flavor would drop, I easily might. I play Magic just to experience storyline, art and flavor of particular cards in one more form, not over way around. If those won't deliver, might just dedicate that time to, say, Arkham Horror/Eldritch Horror and spare myself from pain of playing competitive duels.
Yes, it is. The more dedicated a customer is the less it takes to keep them and the less they impact policy. That's why drug addicts get unsafe products.
That comparison... makes little sense.
Are you going to stop buying their product? No? Then Wizards cares as much about you as a drug dealer cares about an addict.
Look at Ashiok there. All they've done with this peculiar marketing choice is alienate one of the comparatively few people actively trying to follow their story. Maybe this changed his mind about Magic lore and made him question the wisdom in keeping up with magic lore, so now he won't buy their $30+ Zendikar artbook. That's $30 lost because they packed the URs with filler vs the $30 they could've made by not having filler every week. In the end, only one option costs money.
And if they were a struggling bookstore it would make sense to chase every $30. Instead they're a $200 million a year company.
You're also ignoring opportunity cost. Hiring better people to write and plan UR costs money. That money is better spent bringing in new players. They're really good at that based on the growth of the game.
You're also ignoring opportunity cost. Hiring better people to write and plan UR costs money. That money is better spent bringing in new players. They're really good at that based on the growth of the game.
All right, bro. In the coming weeks we'll see if they hired better freelance writers to write the plot-centric URs as opposed to just using Doug, Kelly, and the rest of the regular staff.
Expect to see this quoted a bunch at you as it's revealed they haven't each week.
I got to say the art and flavour text for this set is pretty pants. Like original Ravnica had a lot of the story in the art and flavour but it wasn't so bleedingly obvious.
I am glad they brought back the idea of having access to the stories in the fat packs because that way it is harder for them to just go back and change the storyline without us having to catch them. I can't remember who caught them on the Zendikar vampire retconning.
Back to the point of this thread. Did anyone get a weird vibe about how they showed the temple to have all three Titans when Kiora said that the adults don't worship Cosi? But if they don't, why have stories and statues for him? I mean if there's a temple of Ula, then surely there should be a temple for Cosi right? Which would mean he was worshiped by adults? Also I wonder if they are going to talk about the missing demons/dinosaurs. I mean were they eaten first cause they were tasty?
Kiora leave with the merfolks with a buch of cosi worshiper so yes there are Cosi worshiper
There are many ways to approach the discussion, I will try to be objective, but I think the post will be long.
Before I start: I think it is innapropiate for Caranthir to say that the mature opinion is the one that agrees with him. And I also will adress vorthospike question as to why I feel they have an obligation to me, which has nothing to do with corporative decisions.
- Let's start with not being naive and admitting that the broader audience of magic buy the game because of the cards, not because of the flavor or the story. That goes from kitchen table to competitive magic, even if people get curious about one or another card, they either play it for fun or for money with the mindset of using and buying the cards. Therefore there are very few people who actually know and care about the story at all. I think that could change, and could change for the better, because if more people care about the story more people will get curious to buy the products. Spoiling everything in the fatpack is dumb and goes against that idea. I will explain more below.
- Magic should care about us, invested readers, for two reasons. The main reason, honestly, is because when you are making a storyline you should primarily care about one thing: your readers. We are the few that actually go there every wednesday and read everything, and from a writer and storytelling perspective, it is bad to spoil everything to the few people that give a damn about your story. That is, to me, the main reason and it has nothing to do with corporative or marketing decisions, it just has to do with old and simple good sense and etiquette. Now there is a second reason that could be tied to the marketing: we, the invested readers, are marketing tools. I live in Brazil. There is a guy here in the magic community that is really into the lore, and every week he translates to portuguese the uncharted realms story and post in the Commander Community and the forum for people to read. That is because he is a vorthos and he wants to share the story with other people, and I can clearly see that this simple act gets people more invested into the game itself. This is an extreme example but the truth is that we, the readers, are the ones that can actually go to a store and get people curious to read and spread the word about the URs more and more, specially if we like them, and that gets people more interested in magic and buy more cards. So they actually should care about us, and about pleasing us. Now, does that mean that they should count just on us to do the marketing? Of course not. See more below.
- A lot of people here are defending the brochure spoil as a good marketing tool to make the 'broader audience' (the same audience that doesn't care about storyline) to catch up with us, the readers. Great! If only that were true! They didn't make them catch up with us, they told everyone something that HASN'T HAPPENED YET. Why not have in the brochure all the stuff that happened to Gideon, Nissa, Jace, Drana, etc. that we have been following? And then link at the end: "if you wanna see what happen next and understand more about the new cards from BFZ, check out the weekly UR release". Tell me, how is that a bad thing? WHY ON EARTH did they need to tell all the following plot points of the URs? If anything that wouldn't make me interested in reading the UR, I would just read the brochure, shrug my shoulders and move along. There really is no defense for what they did, it is just plain stupid (TerroKingA has pointed out this solution which I think is pretty obvious and everyone here seems to be ignoring it). And one final note below.
- Yes, we all read stories to catch up the details. We all want to see HOW things happened, otherwise there would be no point in reading them. That is why I said that seeing the card "Ob Nixilis Reigneted" was not a big deal. Yes, we know from the card that he will have his spark back, but we have no idea as to how. THE BROCHURE TOLD YOU HOW. It specifically stated how Ob Nixilis will show up, what he will do and how that makes him regain his spark. That is just it, there is nothing more for you to read. At this point you are just interested in seeing what sequence of words they will use in the UR to represent what you already know, and that ruins the STORY. It doesn't matter if there are things left unmentioned such as 'hah, but we don't know what position he will assume to go to the hedron network or what happens afterwards'. That is irrelevant. The plot was spoiled, there aren't enough relevant details to make the story matter again. Not telling the main plot points is basically storytelling. Magic failed hard on that.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
Yes, the broader audience buys the game because of the cards. Because it's a game, and the mechanical aspect of the game is fun. Now it's time for a metaphor.
People also buy tables. Tables have a specific purpose, and people love using tables for that purpose. And some people will buy tables that function over anything.
Most people buy tables to suit their particular needs, and the particular aesthetic of the room they're putting the table in.
Flavor is the metaphorical stain/varnish/polish on those tables. It makes it look good, but it's not necessary for the table's functionality. But the average person also doesn't buy *****ty looking tables.
If flavor was unimportant, then they'd just release the playtest garbage.
Now, your average table purchaser may not particularly care about the varnishing process, the particular shade of stain used, particular kind of wood used. They got a table that looked nice, and fit what they needed. Maybe they looked up a little bit about what kind of color works best for what they've painted their kitchen. Maybe they just did it on instinct. They don't want the whole story. They don't want the details. They want the broad strokes, namely "Does this table look good, and fit my needs."
They don't care about the varnisher society and their admiration for the art behind the process.
Vorthos is not an "On-Off" thing. It's not a "You are a Vorthos, You are not." It's a spectrum.
There are people out there who were invested in the RoE storyline, and thought Zendikar had been destroyed.
There are people who went through Theros and had no idea that Elspeth died. And that wasn't long ago!
It may be hard to notice, because it's almost a fundamental part of our lives these days, but lots of people don't know about UR. And telling them won't necessarily make them care.
Have you ever been playing a game with a friend, and had them constantly giving you input you didn't ask for? Telling you where to go for "secrets"?
Have you ever been pissed at a game for telling you to trek a mile and a half for a single dialogue option that's necessary to complete the game?
That is sort of what the "here's the story so far, now go somewhere else and wait to finish it" does to the Low-Spectrum Vorthos.
They don't care about the how, they care about the what. That's why they made the guide.
And your example is why they don't necessarily care about High-Spectrum Vorthos as a marketing tool. The invested ones, that care about the lore and such? They are going to do things like that anyway.
The invested are passionate, and subsequently share that passion with others without Wizards needing to prod them to do it.
Magic does care about the invested reader, the invested Vorthos. Look at how far it's come! They went from books maybe every once in a blue moon, to one set that told the story through the cards, to weekly articles on flavor and worldbuilding + giving story on the cards, and they are releasing an art/world-lore book. They have made more content overall for the Vorthos on any level of the spectrum. Don't you think the creative team could probably use the UR writing time to do other things for the game's lore? Utilize that time for the future sets they're working on, now that they have to make two worlds a year?
The thing is, we've become so used to that we forget how much of a time investment that is in us.
Could it be better? Yes, obviously. But Magic has a huge audience. An actually mind-staggeringly huge audience, and no two players consume it the same way.
Nor do any two people consume the story the same way.
The Fat Pack Book wasn't for you. It was for low-spectrum Vorthos. Is that really so hard to accept.
Honestly I think you completely missed my point. Yes, there are different magic players, and some may care more for the story than others but in no way that justifies:
- Spoiling things in the fat pack. They could have told the 'low-spectrum vorthos' (as you name) things that have happened that the 'high-spectrum vorthos' already know. You did not adress this issue, you just ignored it completely. There is no reason to give spoilers, do you see that?
- Thinking that the support of the Vorthos Player will always come for granted. I'm always interested in stories, and just recently decided to follow magic lore more seriously because of the 'reboot'. Because of that I can't speak for everyone, but if you think that people will talk passionate about bad filler stories or about stories from a company that spoils things for them, you are wrong. Sure, there are players who will shrug at the brochure and move along (such as Caranthir), but there are many here (I've see at least 3 other in this forum besides me) that care about what they did, and they probably will not make the good merchidising that they could.
Finally, it is not just about merchidising, it is about good will. Spoilers are universally seen as a bad thing for storytelling and anyone should avoid giving them unless it is absolutely necessary, which was not the case. And it is great that they are giving more importance to the Vorthos community, it really is. But that spoiler from the fat pack was a gigantic let down. Doing good things doesn't excuse you from doing bad things, and that is why I'm adressing this issue and I'm here complaining.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
There are plenty of reasons to give spoilers. If you're curious what happens, but know for a fact that you won't have the time, patience, or memory space to look up what happened, you'll ask for spoilers.
Or have you never encountered a book/movie/form of entertainment where you had that problem?
I mean, Christ, we've been clamoring for more story points in this very thread for the past two months. We've been near begging for spoilers.
But besides that, the majority of people who open fat packs and read them will do so during the release weekend. The low-spectrum Vorthos will not be eager to wait for the rest of the UR to pop up and tell the rest of the story, they'd like to know what's going on as they sort their cards.
And as I mentioned earlier, these can be pointed to later on when people ask "What happened in BFZ" without going "Well, here's all the Uncharted Realms, have fun for the next couple of hours."
You mentioned that gentlemen who's translating all the stories. The recent stories.
The ones that have seen almost non-stop *****ing in this very thread.
Interesting point, that. Since, as you said, no one would want to share pointless filler, or bad stories.
And the problem of the "3 other in the forum besides me" thing is that, it's a matter of vocal dissonance.
You know who's gonna post about this sort of thing? People who are upset.
You know who isn't? People who don't give a *****.
Again, Magic's audience is enormous. What's bad for you, isn't necessarily bad for someone else.
No, these are not reasons to give spoilers. If people don't have time to read all the URs, they can get updated from what happened in a Brochure from Oath of the Gatewatch. If people are lazy, they might as well get updated later than people that are actually following the story. If they don't want to read, fine, they would still get the updates.
Heh, it is funny because I never said all of the URs were bad. You just seem to think all of them were and therefore there would be no reason to translate it. If you read back my opinions here you will see that I give credit where credit is due for each and every single UR, and the only ones that are unsalvageable are the Nissa ones. So that explains why the person that I mention worries about translating them.
And finally it is not just vocal dissonance. Much more people read the foruns than actually post it, if they agree with me or if they agree with you. The point of mentioning the other people is just to say that: there are people that got upset from that, and there was no reason to make them upset. There was NO REASON at all, as they could have pleased everyone, the ones that just want to 'catch up' and the ones that are actually following the story. I don't care if half of the people who read the UR think it is not important to have the plot spoiled. If a part of them think it was bad, and it could be avoided at no cost, then it should have been avoided. That is it.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
In the lore of the next block? You explain what happened last block when we 'last saw Origins 5' then introduces what has happened so far to set up the story from the block that you are reading now. And this is just one of many possibilities.
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Not at all, specially with the new way of telling stories where they are using the planeswalkers as the ones to carry the flag for the company. Knowing what happened in the last block is much more about getting updated about what the planeswalker did than anything else. And honestly the 'low-end vorthoses' or whatever shouldn't care about that.
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So, let's say the next block covers Liliana going to fight one of her demons. No Jace, No Chandra, No Ugin, No Sorin, No Nissa, No Gideon.
You don't think that "Here's all the stuff that happened in this last block, here's a tiny amount of what's happening now" would be...stupid?
EDIT: you are making a huge deal out of a fat pack update dedicated to people that bother very little about the storyline in general.
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Your analogy is innapropriate to me, so I don't think it matters. I won't point out why because we would keep derailing from the discussion, I gave you a suggestion, pretty decent one, and there are certainly many others.
You are now literally just grabbing to the tiny little bit of hope to see if I can fall in contradiction, or whatever. If you have any other relevant argument to add, I will be glad to answer it, otherwise I already explained why what they did was bad and how it could have been simply fixed. If you don't agree, I shrug my shoulders, I gave good reasons as to why my solution is simple and good.
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By any chance are you actually an inhuman smoke monster that exists beyond the bounds of human reason?
Maybe. If I was I would also be surprised on how a complex discussion was brought down to "so you are suggesting that we should put out updates for the people that don't care about the story in the next block that isn't about the current block? Outrageous! And you actually think that this is better than spoiling everything for the invested readers that go there every wednesday?". As a matter of fact, I do
I would also be reading this and amusing myself in thinking how people completely miss the point of a discussion and grab to tiny side-arguments as if they were relevant to obscure the inumerous other relevant points that were being previously discussed.
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I don't have a problem with them giving the details of the plot in the fat pack brochure, it reaches a much larger audience and is a good marketing tool.
What I have an issue with is how far away the URs are from that point. The story needs to be much further along by this point, or ideally concluded on release day. Instead we get a bunch of filler and buildup when we already know the ending, which removes a lot of my interest from the articles. Sure, I'll read them, but it's not something I'm looking forward to anymore.
They have shown they can pump out filler articles, so finish the story on release day or on the full spoiler release and then either start building up for the next set or take a break and tell some tales from around the multiverse. We don't get spoilers and receive the whole experience, most players see the general overview of what's happening in the fat pack, and if they're intrigued farther they can read up on the details through URs. Win-win.
The way the story was handled in this set feels like a slap in the face to me, and I think they can do a lot better to appease us while not sacrificing anything for the typical player.
Because of that I can't speak for everyone, but if you think that people will talk passionate about bad filler stories or about stories from a company that spoils things for them, you are wrong.
I do, nearly every day. When I go to school I end up talking with one of my classmates about the lore of Magic and what's been going on, and the reactions it has brought from the community, because I love the stories and enjoy talking about everything I know about it. I can't say I've read all the stories in MTG's history, but everything I've read so far in one way or another has always been enjoyable to me, even the so called filler. Have there been bad stories? Of course, doesn't change how much I enjoy following these characters and their struggles. Seeing how the characters different personalities work together, and their various fights through the multiverse.
Also, If I may be frank, this whole Fat Pack discussion has gone on long enough. We already know what your opinion is, that goes for everyone else that has already spoken as well. There is no need to keep repeating over and over your strife with how it has been handled, especially since there is nothing you can do to change the current brochure. I'd personally would love to go back and continue discussing about the Uncharted Realms Stories, like this forum is titled to be about, not the Fat Pack brochure. If you want to continue your discussion, you should move it somewhere else.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Does anyone here actually want to (or know someone else who wants to) a) spend less money on Magic or b) not buy story-related products you previously intended to buy because you don't like how they're handing the URs?
Personally, I like and follow the lore-related stuff, and am often the only one of my friends who even knows what the major plot events are. But I view the lore-related products as largely side attractions to the stuff I spend my money on, which is cards. I started in original Zendikar, and since then we've had two set novels (universally panned), two planeswalker novels (about characters I don't care about), a comic strip collection (I don't buy graphic novels), two ebooks (ditto), and a $30 coffee table art book (seems to appeal more to people who already collect art/prints than anything to do with story). My issues with spending money on story stuff are completely independent of whether the URs are good or bad. Even if the stories suddenly became z0MGWTFAMAZEBALLS it's not like I'd spend $30 on a product I neither want nor need just to give a tip to the writing team (who might not even see any of the proceeds, at least not directly). If I wanted to do that I'd much rather have an actual tip jar, Patreon, Kickstarter, etc.
And while I like details, I'd much rather the stories expand upon things in either the main plot or the planeswalkers' guides. e.g. for Tarkir, less Mantis Rider and random fight scenes, more ghostfire, Arel, non-human characters (8/10 human khans, and both nonhumans were villains...C'mon, you have a world with a ton of different races and it just so happens you don't have time to write about any nonhumans?)
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Are you going to stop buying their product? No? Then Wizards cares as much about you as a drug dealer cares about an addict.
And if they were a struggling bookstore it would make sense to chase every $30. Instead they're a $200 million a year company.
You're also ignoring opportunity cost. Hiring better people to write and plan UR costs money. That money is better spent bringing in new players. They're really good at that based on the growth of the game.
All right, bro. In the coming weeks we'll see if they hired better freelance writers to write the plot-centric URs as opposed to just using Doug, Kelly, and the rest of the regular staff.
Expect to see this quoted a bunch at you as it's revealed they haven't each week.
Your mods are terrified of me.
Kiora leave with the merfolks with a buch of cosi worshiper so yes there are Cosi worshiper
Before I start: I think it is innapropiate for Caranthir to say that the mature opinion is the one that agrees with him. And I also will adress vorthospike question as to why I feel they have an obligation to me, which has nothing to do with corporative decisions.
- Let's start with not being naive and admitting that the broader audience of magic buy the game because of the cards, not because of the flavor or the story. That goes from kitchen table to competitive magic, even if people get curious about one or another card, they either play it for fun or for money with the mindset of using and buying the cards. Therefore there are very few people who actually know and care about the story at all. I think that could change, and could change for the better, because if more people care about the story more people will get curious to buy the products. Spoiling everything in the fatpack is dumb and goes against that idea. I will explain more below.
- Magic should care about us, invested readers, for two reasons. The main reason, honestly, is because when you are making a storyline you should primarily care about one thing: your readers. We are the few that actually go there every wednesday and read everything, and from a writer and storytelling perspective, it is bad to spoil everything to the few people that give a damn about your story. That is, to me, the main reason and it has nothing to do with corporative or marketing decisions, it just has to do with old and simple good sense and etiquette. Now there is a second reason that could be tied to the marketing: we, the invested readers, are marketing tools. I live in Brazil. There is a guy here in the magic community that is really into the lore, and every week he translates to portuguese the uncharted realms story and post in the Commander Community and the forum for people to read. That is because he is a vorthos and he wants to share the story with other people, and I can clearly see that this simple act gets people more invested into the game itself. This is an extreme example but the truth is that we, the readers, are the ones that can actually go to a store and get people curious to read and spread the word about the URs more and more, specially if we like them, and that gets people more interested in magic and buy more cards. So they actually should care about us, and about pleasing us. Now, does that mean that they should count just on us to do the marketing? Of course not. See more below.
- A lot of people here are defending the brochure spoil as a good marketing tool to make the 'broader audience' (the same audience that doesn't care about storyline) to catch up with us, the readers. Great! If only that were true! They didn't make them catch up with us, they told everyone something that HASN'T HAPPENED YET. Why not have in the brochure all the stuff that happened to Gideon, Nissa, Jace, Drana, etc. that we have been following? And then link at the end: "if you wanna see what happen next and understand more about the new cards from BFZ, check out the weekly UR release". Tell me, how is that a bad thing? WHY ON EARTH did they need to tell all the following plot points of the URs? If anything that wouldn't make me interested in reading the UR, I would just read the brochure, shrug my shoulders and move along. There really is no defense for what they did, it is just plain stupid (TerroKingA has pointed out this solution which I think is pretty obvious and everyone here seems to be ignoring it). And one final note below.
- Yes, we all read stories to catch up the details. We all want to see HOW things happened, otherwise there would be no point in reading them. That is why I said that seeing the card "Ob Nixilis Reigneted" was not a big deal. Yes, we know from the card that he will have his spark back, but we have no idea as to how. THE BROCHURE TOLD YOU HOW. It specifically stated how Ob Nixilis will show up, what he will do and how that makes him regain his spark. That is just it, there is nothing more for you to read. At this point you are just interested in seeing what sequence of words they will use in the UR to represent what you already know, and that ruins the STORY. It doesn't matter if there are things left unmentioned such as 'hah, but we don't know what position he will assume to go to the hedron network or what happens afterwards'. That is irrelevant. The plot was spoiled, there aren't enough relevant details to make the story matter again. Not telling the main plot points is basically storytelling. Magic failed hard on that.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
People also buy tables. Tables have a specific purpose, and people love using tables for that purpose. And some people will buy tables that function over anything.
Most people buy tables to suit their particular needs, and the particular aesthetic of the room they're putting the table in.
Flavor is the metaphorical stain/varnish/polish on those tables. It makes it look good, but it's not necessary for the table's functionality. But the average person also doesn't buy *****ty looking tables.
If flavor was unimportant, then they'd just release the playtest garbage.
Now, your average table purchaser may not particularly care about the varnishing process, the particular shade of stain used, particular kind of wood used. They got a table that looked nice, and fit what they needed. Maybe they looked up a little bit about what kind of color works best for what they've painted their kitchen. Maybe they just did it on instinct. They don't want the whole story. They don't want the details. They want the broad strokes, namely "Does this table look good, and fit my needs."
They don't care about the varnisher society and their admiration for the art behind the process.
Vorthos is not an "On-Off" thing. It's not a "You are a Vorthos, You are not." It's a spectrum.
There are people out there who were invested in the RoE storyline, and thought Zendikar had been destroyed.
There are people who went through Theros and had no idea that Elspeth died. And that wasn't long ago!
It may be hard to notice, because it's almost a fundamental part of our lives these days, but lots of people don't know about UR. And telling them won't necessarily make them care.
Have you ever been playing a game with a friend, and had them constantly giving you input you didn't ask for? Telling you where to go for "secrets"?
Have you ever been pissed at a game for telling you to trek a mile and a half for a single dialogue option that's necessary to complete the game?
That is sort of what the "here's the story so far, now go somewhere else and wait to finish it" does to the Low-Spectrum Vorthos.
They don't care about the how, they care about the what. That's why they made the guide.
And your example is why they don't necessarily care about High-Spectrum Vorthos as a marketing tool. The invested ones, that care about the lore and such? They are going to do things like that anyway.
The invested are passionate, and subsequently share that passion with others without Wizards needing to prod them to do it.
Magic does care about the invested reader, the invested Vorthos. Look at how far it's come! They went from books maybe every once in a blue moon, to one set that told the story through the cards, to weekly articles on flavor and worldbuilding + giving story on the cards, and they are releasing an art/world-lore book. They have made more content overall for the Vorthos on any level of the spectrum. Don't you think the creative team could probably use the UR writing time to do other things for the game's lore? Utilize that time for the future sets they're working on, now that they have to make two worlds a year?
The thing is, we've become so used to that we forget how much of a time investment that is in us.
Could it be better? Yes, obviously. But Magic has a huge audience. An actually mind-staggeringly huge audience, and no two players consume it the same way.
Nor do any two people consume the story the same way.
The Fat Pack Book wasn't for you. It was for low-spectrum Vorthos. Is that really so hard to accept.
- Spoiling things in the fat pack. They could have told the 'low-spectrum vorthos' (as you name) things that have happened that the 'high-spectrum vorthos' already know. You did not adress this issue, you just ignored it completely. There is no reason to give spoilers, do you see that?
- Thinking that the support of the Vorthos Player will always come for granted. I'm always interested in stories, and just recently decided to follow magic lore more seriously because of the 'reboot'. Because of that I can't speak for everyone, but if you think that people will talk passionate about bad filler stories or about stories from a company that spoils things for them, you are wrong. Sure, there are players who will shrug at the brochure and move along (such as Caranthir), but there are many here (I've see at least 3 other in this forum besides me) that care about what they did, and they probably will not make the good merchidising that they could.
Finally, it is not just about merchidising, it is about good will. Spoilers are universally seen as a bad thing for storytelling and anyone should avoid giving them unless it is absolutely necessary, which was not the case. And it is great that they are giving more importance to the Vorthos community, it really is. But that spoiler from the fat pack was a gigantic let down. Doing good things doesn't excuse you from doing bad things, and that is why I'm adressing this issue and I'm here complaining.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Or have you never encountered a book/movie/form of entertainment where you had that problem?
I mean, Christ, we've been clamoring for more story points in this very thread for the past two months. We've been near begging for spoilers.
But besides that, the majority of people who open fat packs and read them will do so during the release weekend. The low-spectrum Vorthos will not be eager to wait for the rest of the UR to pop up and tell the rest of the story, they'd like to know what's going on as they sort their cards.
And as I mentioned earlier, these can be pointed to later on when people ask "What happened in BFZ" without going "Well, here's all the Uncharted Realms, have fun for the next couple of hours."
You mentioned that gentlemen who's translating all the stories. The recent stories.
The ones that have seen almost non-stop *****ing in this very thread.
Interesting point, that. Since, as you said, no one would want to share pointless filler, or bad stories.
And the problem of the "3 other in the forum besides me" thing is that, it's a matter of vocal dissonance.
You know who's gonna post about this sort of thing? People who are upset.
You know who isn't? People who don't give a *****.
Again, Magic's audience is enormous. What's bad for you, isn't necessarily bad for someone else.
Heh, it is funny because I never said all of the URs were bad. You just seem to think all of them were and therefore there would be no reason to translate it. If you read back my opinions here you will see that I give credit where credit is due for each and every single UR, and the only ones that are unsalvageable are the Nissa ones. So that explains why the person that I mention worries about translating them.
And finally it is not just vocal dissonance. Much more people read the foruns than actually post it, if they agree with me or if they agree with you. The point of mentioning the other people is just to say that: there are people that got upset from that, and there was no reason to make them upset. There was NO REASON at all, as they could have pleased everyone, the ones that just want to 'catch up' and the ones that are actually following the story. I don't care if half of the people who read the UR think it is not important to have the plot spoiled. If a part of them think it was bad, and it could be avoided at no cost, then it should have been avoided. That is it.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
You don't think that "Here's all the stuff that happened in this last block, here's a tiny amount of what's happening now" would be...stupid?
EDIT: you are making a huge deal out of a fat pack update dedicated to people that bother very little about the storyline in general.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Uhh...
Have you ever read the Lord of the Rings Trilogy?
How would you feel if the opening of the Two Towers, had a synopsis of the Hobbit at the front?
You are now literally just grabbing to the tiny little bit of hope to see if I can fall in contradiction, or whatever. If you have any other relevant argument to add, I will be glad to answer it, otherwise I already explained why what they did was bad and how it could have been simply fixed. If you don't agree, I shrug my shoulders, I gave good reasons as to why my solution is simple and good.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
By any chance are you actually an inhuman smoke monster that exists beyond the bounds of human reason?
Maybe. If I was I would also be surprised on how a complex discussion was brought down to "so you are suggesting that we should put out updates for the people that don't care about the story in the next block that isn't about the current block? Outrageous! And you actually think that this is better than spoiling everything for the invested readers that go there every wednesday?". As a matter of fact, I do
I would also be reading this and amusing myself in thinking how people completely miss the point of a discussion and grab to tiny side-arguments as if they were relevant to obscure the inumerous other relevant points that were being previously discussed.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
What I have an issue with is how far away the URs are from that point. The story needs to be much further along by this point, or ideally concluded on release day. Instead we get a bunch of filler and buildup when we already know the ending, which removes a lot of my interest from the articles. Sure, I'll read them, but it's not something I'm looking forward to anymore.
They have shown they can pump out filler articles, so finish the story on release day or on the full spoiler release and then either start building up for the next set or take a break and tell some tales from around the multiverse. We don't get spoilers and receive the whole experience, most players see the general overview of what's happening in the fat pack, and if they're intrigued farther they can read up on the details through URs. Win-win.
The way the story was handled in this set feels like a slap in the face to me, and I think they can do a lot better to appease us while not sacrificing anything for the typical player.
I do, nearly every day. When I go to school I end up talking with one of my classmates about the lore of Magic and what's been going on, and the reactions it has brought from the community, because I love the stories and enjoy talking about everything I know about it. I can't say I've read all the stories in MTG's history, but everything I've read so far in one way or another has always been enjoyable to me, even the so called filler. Have there been bad stories? Of course, doesn't change how much I enjoy following these characters and their struggles. Seeing how the characters different personalities work together, and their various fights through the multiverse.
Also, If I may be frank, this whole Fat Pack discussion has gone on long enough. We already know what your opinion is, that goes for everyone else that has already spoken as well. There is no need to keep repeating over and over your strife with how it has been handled, especially since there is nothing you can do to change the current brochure. I'd personally would love to go back and continue discussing about the Uncharted Realms Stories, like this forum is titled to be about, not the Fat Pack brochure. If you want to continue your discussion, you should move it somewhere else.
I hate using this word, but aren't you being just a little bit hypocritical. You are also making a big deal about the Fat Pack