Very cinematic, I could see the whole thing. And I think it was actually Redirect that Jace used, no?
Hopefully they spend some time assessing the environmental impact of all this. It would seem that Zendikar went from 'mana jungle' to 'mana desert'. I also wonder if there is enough life/people remaining for the plane to recover. How many would you need to re-populate a whole world?
Wait a minute... did Zendikar just use Nissa and Chandra to Channel-Fireball the titans? In the original game flavour, that spell combo could do enough damage to an immortal oldwalker to force them out of a battle. If we're talking about an entire plane pumping mana and life into a Channel (with Zendikar being one of the most mana- and life-abundant planes in the multiverse), then pumping all of that into a Fireball, then I'm guessing we're talking about Death Star level destruction.
It is kind of contrived that the only four planeswalkers we have trying to save Zendikar are the exact four with the exact skills needed to pull off this insanity (Jace to unravel the solution, Gideon to organise the bait, Nissa to channel the power of the leylines, and Chandra to be the "big gun"), but no more-so than is common in team-up fiction.
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A polite player might call my card choices "interesting." At my budget, "interesting" is the only option.
Creative should just bite the bullet and bring back oldwalker levels of power (minus immortality, I guess). I mean who do they think they're fooling? "Planeswalkers are basically just mages." What mage has ever drawn an entire sea up above them? What mage has controlled the power of an entire plane? What mage has channeled a plane's power into fire capable of destroying Titans, but not consuming them at the same time?
Barrin was a badass powerful mage. His biggest, baddest feat was wiping out all of Tolaria and the Phyrexians there, in a blast that killed him. Bo Levar was an oldwalker whose spark only protected one enclave of merfolk. Am I the only one getting annoyed by this? Either they're mages or they're something far more, make up your minds.
Well, the three scenarios you've mentioned do all have unique explanations. Kiora is wielding the Bident of Thassa, which is allowing her to do things she'd normally never be able to do. And the latter two are entirely due to Nissa's personal connection with Zendikar and the Leyline pattern they'd created, and are one-off special situations that will likely never happen again off Zendikar.
You do, however, raise a point that is one of my strongest complaints about Magic's storyline--the ridiculous lack of consistency when it comes to exactly how powerful Oldwalkers were. None of the writers seemed to be able to agree on how powerful they were, and at several times, the oldwalkers had to just forget about their powers in order for drama to be preserved. At numerous points during the Weatherlight saga, I found myself asking "Why didn't they just ____?". It's the same complaint people are having now about the Eldrazi, who in BFZ were as strong as the plot needed them to be at the time. I'm very glad they're gone if only so that I don't have to deal with that consistently. My favorite pre-mending story is the Kamigawa block story, and a large part of that is probably because there were no oldwalkers in it at all.
That all said, nothing that happened here was anything that a very powerful mage couldn't do, should that powerful mage have found themselves in the exact same circumstances that the Gatewatch and Kiora found themselves in. None of these feats were accomplished by the planeswalkers by themselves.
Creative should just bite the bullet and bring back oldwalker levels of power (minus immortality, I guess). I mean who do they think they're fooling? "Planeswalkers are basically just mages." What mage has ever drawn an entire sea up above them? What mage has controlled the power of an entire plane? What mage has channeled a plane's power into fire capable of destroying Titans, but not consuming them at the same time?
Barrin was a badass powerful mage. His biggest, baddest feat was wiping out all of Tolaria and the Phyrexians there, in a blast that killed him. Bo Levar was an oldwalker whose spark only protected one enclave of merfolk. Am I the only one getting annoyed by this? Either they're mages or they're something far more, make up your minds.
Well, the three scenarios you've mentioned do all have unique explanations. Kiora is wielding the Bident of Thassa, which is allowing her to do things she'd normally never be able to do. And the latter two are entirely due to Nissa's personal connection with Zendikar and the Leyline pattern they'd created, and are one-off special situations that will likely never happen again off Zendikar.
You do, however, raise a point that is one of my strongest complaints about Magic's storyline--the ridiculous lack of consistency when it comes to exactly how powerful Oldwalkers were. None of the writers seemed to be able to agree on how powerful they were, and at several times, the oldwalkers had to just forget about their powers in order for drama to be preserved. At numerous points during the Weatherlight saga, I found myself asking "Why didn't they just ____?". It's the same complaint people are having now about the Eldrazi, who in BFZ were as strong as the plot needed them to be at the time. I'm very glad they're gone if only so that I don't have to deal with that consistently. My favorite pre-mending story is the Kamigawa block story, and a large part of that is probably because there were no oldwalkers in it at all.
That all said, nothing that happened here was anything that a very powerful mage couldn't do, should that powerful mage have found themselves in the exact same circumstances that the Gatewatch and Kiora found themselves in. None of these feats were accomplished by the planeswalkers by themselves.
I agree with your point about consistency. But I disagree on the other point (I'll call it 'special circumstances').
From the article:
"A wall of water three miles wide rose into the air. It swirled and twined into a single mass, a floating, shimmering shape shot through with sea plants and coral and fish. It was a seawater globe, hovering overhead. Kiora had emptied the entire Halimar Sea, and was holding it through the strength of her will. "
Three mile wide body of water. Three *miles*. An entire sea formed into one giant globe of seawater. How is this not absolutely unbelievable? Nowhere else that I can recall did Kiora manipulate this much water, and not just make it move, but lift it in the air. Thassa I recall flooding cities. But that was a god + godly weapon. I can understand that 'special circumstances' is an available excuse placed there by the writers, but it doesn't make sense. A mage + a god's bident (when she left Theros with it, it was described as losing some of its glamor, less godly looking) can combine to lift an entire sea? For reference, Gideon took Heliod's spear and when it was flung back at him, it wiped out the small area around him. Elspeth killed a hydra with the Godsend, and struck down a god in the land of the gods. What sense does it make for Thassa's bident to, on another plane entirely, assist in lifting an entire sea. An entire sea. I don't recall any oldwalker performing a similar feat. An entire sea is not small potatoes.
As for Nissa's attunement to the plane allowing her to channel ALL the power of the plane, there too I can't agree (though I can't bring as strong an argument to bear). 'Special circumstances' there may be, but I don't recall any instance where a mage tied to a plane managed the same thing. The closest things I can think of are oldwalkers and their connection to the artificial planes they themselves created. If there is an example of a mage tied to a plane being able to bring the entirety of that plane's power to bear, please let me know (not being snide, I legit want to be told).
As for Chandra, how does that much power not consume someone? The sylex leveled a continent and cooked everyone, regardless of who they were. Chandra destroys plane encompassing monstrosities with the power of a plane, and is only a little tuckered out.
A point unrelated to this convo: If Zendikar has been getting eaten and is almost completely consumed and almost empty of mana, as we're led to believe, how could the small amount left destroy the things that eat mana for breakfast, who are filled with it and are literally incomprehensible in size and power?
I tend to rant, so don't anyone ever take it personally.
EDIT: Does Doug not understand size? The Eldrazi were a hundred feet tall? The design on the ground was a hundred feet wide? For reference, one hundred feet is less than half a (American) football field.
"Kiora summoned up her mightiest onslaught of water and rage. Jace feigned interest"
+10 respect points to Jace.
I'm still seriously baffled to why people like Kiora. She does UG poorly, she doesn't work well with anyone and she still has an absurd ego despite being 0-2 against relevant opponents. The parts of this story written from her perspective is incredibly forced and unnecessary. Why not write from Nissa or Jace? You know, the ones that have the most important jobs in the attempt to kill the titans. Speaking of which, two of most "terrifying" beings in the Multiverse get killed in one short story? Yeah, no that makes sense.
I look forward to Shadows of Innistrad if only because I get a reprieve from Kiora's annoying presence. Oh but I'm sure the writers will find a way to make her show up on Innistrad because "PEOPLE LIKE HER LOL."
(Not gonna lie, I lingered at the part where Jace counterspell'd Kiora into a temper-tantrum salt baby. I hate Jace a lot less now because of that.)
The problem with the logic of figuring out a tier list/power level of 'walkers as a group is the same as classifying superheroes in general. Because our minds want to do so based off of feats. And frankly, feats go hand in hand with circumstances whether you like it or not. Context is everything when it comes to power level. It's the same reason everyone got pissy Nissa bested Ob-Nixilis in their first fight. Rather than allowing the context to frame the fight, people wanted to isolate the two into separate bubbles, compare feats, and conclude that it shouldn't have been a contest. That's really problematic thinking when it comes to understanding storytelling.
As for the other points about other consistencies, those, are definitely head-scratchingly frustrating. Particularly the size of the titans constantly changing.
So, rather than being able to warp minds now, like he should have done with all the Zendikari, Kozilek is just another Godzilla. That army should have turned on Gideon from the get go.
My take away (besides the okay nature of the piece itself) was that we don't see any bodies. We see Titan-shaped holes in the smoke, but at no point do they actually burn. So I'm holding out hope that they actually just got freed, especially since there were still Eldrazi spawn around to mop up afterwards.
meh,this sucked,what a mishandled mess of a story.Im glad it's almost over.
This pretty much.
You guys actually want it to be ambiguous and for the titans to have escaped? For there to be another round against the titans, where people will again moan about them not being untouchable? Pass.
Well guys...that's done with. I have to say I was really hoping Chandra would use Ghostfire because I want as many reasons as possible to like the story and say that it is being consistent with previous lore but that is ok. All things considered I liked this one, a little abrupt and quick but I liked the pw interaction, the eldrazi final form, and the ambiguity and somberness of the ending. Give me Ugin *****ing Jace out next UR and I'll be happy. Lastly, Ulamog and Kozilek will be back in the future no doubt about it as far as I'm concerned.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Well guys...that's done with. I have to say I was really hoping Chandra would use Ghostfire because I want as many reasons as possible to like the story and say that it is being consistent with previous lore but that is ok. All things considered I liked this one, a little abrupt and quick but I liked the pw interaction, the eldrazi final form, and the ambiguity and somberness of the ending. Give me Ugin *****ing Jace out next UR and I'll be happy. Lastly, Ulamog and Kozilek will be back in the future no doubt about it as far as I'm concerned.
I kind of wanted Ghostfire as well but it seemed like it was out with artbook and cards since it seems like they'd have said it by name. Besides that, though, I don't recall where but I seem to recall reading that Chandra had actually had the memory of how to cast Ghostfire removed but I forget where and by whom, so I may be recalling incorrectly.
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They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
The problem with the logic of figuring out a tier list/power level of 'walkers as a group is the same as classifying superheroes in general. Because our minds want to do so based off of feats. And frankly, feats go hand in hand with circumstances whether you like it or not. Context is everything when it comes to power level. It's the same reason everyone got pissy Nissa bested Ob-Nixilis in their first fight. Rather than allowing the context to frame the fight, people wanted to isolate the two into separate bubbles, compare feats, and conclude that it shouldn't have been a contest. That's really problematic thinking when it comes to understanding storytelling.
Yeah power levels don't make a lot of sense generally. That doesn't mean we can't compare the ability of each Planeswalker to the each other, just that it's impossible to accurately rank them unless they were each measured equally and under identical conditions. You'd need to get them all in the same place and perform the same or similar tasks, like combat...
Calling it now, MTG tournament arc 2017. You heard it here first.
As for the story today, pretty good delivery on a very wonky plot moment. On the downside the writing jumped between Chandra and Kiora too much. Each time I figured out what was going on the perspective would switch.
Normally I've thought the stories were lackluster but this time I actually enjoyed it. Kiora recognized the threat and tried to act but Jace stopped her with an awesome counter spell. He showed leadership too, worthy of being guildpact. The Eldrazi Overlay was cool and I happened to enjoy the ending. Kiera's self reflection shows that she is all alone. No one believed her and while she may have been rash she was right. I think Kiora is going to become a more fleshed out character and I'm excited. Most non-human planes walkers are relatively flatline. I also enjoyed how Chandra and the rest of the Gatewatch (except maybe Gideon) worked together. I'm excited about where the story goes.
I am pleased. I've discussed my views on the story direction before, so I'll spare them now.
The Eldrazi form-shifting was neat, and felt climactic enough. Nissa's channeling was also neat, as well as her sharing of it with Chandra.
The choice to include Kiora was interesting--had the Art Book and Fat Pack brochure not existed, no one would be complaining of Kiora's involvement. I think she does well here--but I wouldn't mind an explanation as to why she does not officially join the Gatewatch--that is the only large confusion to her "new" role.
I also was intrigued by the focus on Chandra and Kiora, especially when most of the block focused on Gideon and Jace. The gender reversal here is intriguing. And while Gideon leads and Jace thinks, we get women who (stereotypically?) bind people together and work as a team, lending strength to one another (Nissa to Chandra). Kiora is another matter, but another female lens, interestingly enough. This female-focus is new and intriguing--especially for the climax. Of course we get women tied closely to the land and nature--perhaps that is not uncommon as a story structure.
I'm fine with the closure--I think is was definitely one of Doug's strongest pieces. He did well including references as key phrases and words throughout the story--Keral Keep, ingest, processors, ablaze, allies, etc.
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Dominian Scholar of the Old Guard, specializing in pre-revisionist (Armada comics) and revisionist (Brothers' War through Apocalypse)history
The story was very poorly written, linear (with minor exceptions) and confusing. It tried to be cataclysmic but felt anti-climatic in those failed attempts. It read like a fanfiction and played out in my mind like an overzealous schoolboy describing his favorite scene from Power Rangers on the playground after post-prandial rush of hyperglycemia. Most of it was embarrassing. Everything was done on such a massive scale and with such poor consideration for (1) Neo-walker power level and general continuity (Ghostfire) (2) actual logistics (the Halimar Sea in a 3 mile orb) and (3) uninspired imagery - that this story just tried too hard and exhausted itself in a transparent attempt at maintaining excitement.
Kiora draining out Zendikar's entire ocean and hurling it at Nissa? I don't doubt the Bident's ability to accomplish this, but the mere act just felt like a typical Avengers movie, where grandiose, adrenaline-laden action scenes with minimal purpose to resolving the plot try to compensate for any real, respectable material. Weren't the titans materializing in reality, an entire plane combating them with its mana, and the death of Eldritch cosmic horrors in one short, rushed story enough of a thrill? There needs to be focus in storytelling, and piling on more adrenaline to wean away from adequate descriptive text in key story moments compromises attention. Restraint would have worked wonders for this piece. Major action scenes like this truly test a writer's capabilities. The instinct is to make it flashy and overwhelming - but it peters out without focused content. Never overtax your reader by splitting their attention between something unnecessary and irrelevant. I'm not going to address a simple counterspell negating a god-weapon cast spell, even if it was for humor.
All this rush, only to go nowhere. I could see any writer, without access to Creative's notes reproducing this by taking the most literal approach to storytelling. I can only respect the idea of the Eldrazi engaged in a consumption war with the plane, being more adept at winning it, and the mysterious ending. Otherwise, this story did not engage my emotions whatsoever the way Kelly Digges has been known to do, or The Blight We Were Born For had. Those were stories that built up to and fleshed out critical plot moments, that honed in a reader's focus and kept momentum when unforeseen twists took place. This was just one homogenous free-for-all explosion of adrenaline and logistics that was confusing and tiring.
After the two titans were destroyed, there were still some of their brood left, doesn't that make no sense? The Eldrazi cannot exist without the titans since they are, by definition, extensions of the titans, but I may be wrong. My guess is that they are not completely destroyed. They might even return to Zendikar forcing Kiora to leave. Maybe I'm too optimistic.
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Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
Upon rereading the story, I have several comments:
WTF #1
Kiora draining the Halimar Sea - well, if I recall correctly, [card-Umara Entangler]Halimar Sea was emptied[/card] when Sea Gate wall fell. What exactly Kiora drained and hurled to Chandra? I reckon there was some water from the rivers that feed the sea, but without the wall, there should be no large body of water to manipulate.
WTF #2
Yeah, I know Gideon is invulnerable, but him blocking an entire LANDMASS (an island) falling down to Chandra, and shattering it?
Epic moment #1
The "merging" of Zendikar reality and the titans. This was very well done.
Epic moment #2
Zendikar was being set against the titans in a contest of consumption—and the titans were designed to consume.
From time to time, Doug creates a true gem. Even in Alara Unbroken there were a couple of such lines.
Quote from Jenrik »
Kiora draining out Zendikar's entire ocean and hurling it at Nissa? I don't doubt the Bident's ability to accomplish this, but the mere act just felt like a typical Avengers movie, where grandiose, adrenaline-laden action scenes with minimal purpose to resolving the plot try to compensate for any real, respectable material. Weren't the titans materializing in reality, an entire plane combating them with its mana, and the death of Eldritch cosmic horrors in one short, rushed story enough of a thrill? There needs to be focus in storytelling, and piling on more adrenaline to wean away from adequate descriptive text in key story moments compromises attention. Restraint would have worked wonders for this piece. Major action scenes like this truly test a writer's capabilities. The instinct is to make it flashy and overwhelming - but it peters out without focused content. Never overtax your reader by splitting their attention between something unnecessary and irrelevant. I'm not going to address a simple counterspell negating a god-weapon cast spell, even if it was for humor.
Welcome, this is Doug for you. All his action scenes (Alara Unbroken, The Secretist) read like a transcription of an action movie on screen. He was actually quite modest here. But the "entire sea" moment was too much, I agree.
But I must say I liked it overall. The story has a sense of desperation, everything hanging on one precious moment, Kiora turning against the others, as well as the aftermath - no words said, just everybody shaken, hurt, and in disbelief what just happened.
I think that Nissa and Chandra have a good chance for developing some kind of PTSD, but this is probably too serious a topic to be actually employed here by Wizards.
The scene with Nissa nodding, joining forces with Chandra to channel-fireball the titans was as much movielike as you woud expect.
As for Kiora, I wonder what the authors intend to do with her now. It is no secret that like many others here, I would like to see the insufferable brat finally taught a lesson, and developing further. Being owned by Kozilek? Nope, not enough. She just got her toy fork back. Almost screwing up a plan and killing a world she wanted to protect? I can see her becoming an outlaw, or a recluse haunted by her own conscience - what she could have caused. But that would be probably too much to ask.
My take away (besides the okay nature of the piece itself) was that we don't see any bodies. We see Titan-shaped holes in the smoke, but at no point do they actually burn. So I'm holding out hope that they actually just got freed, especially since there were still Eldrazi spawn around to mop up afterwards.
I too am thinking the titans may have been freed. After Jace's constant warnings for Chandra not to burninate them lest they escape, how does it all end? With Chandra burninating them.
My take away (besides the okay nature of the piece itself) was that we don't see any bodies. We see Titan-shaped holes in the smoke, but at no point do they actually burn. So I'm holding out hope that they actually just got freed, especially since there were still Eldrazi spawn around to mop up afterwards.
I too am thinking the titans may have been freed. After Jace's constant warnings for Chandra not to burninate them lest they escape, how does it all end? With Chandra burninating them.
Yeah. At this point, we must largely ignore the material from the Fat Packs talking about "Kiora fleeing in despair" or "the charred remnants of the Titans".
The fact that Chandra burned them as a really last option left to them (except giving up and dying) makes the ending more acceptable.
It is still not what I would prefer (and neither do the local vocal haters), but it is better than just "let's lure them here and KILL THEM WITH FIRE", as it might look like from the initial very limited and brief info.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
EPISODE 10: ZENDIKAR RESURGENT
"The four Planeswalkers who came together to battle the Eldrazi have won! In destroying the titans Ulamog and Kozilek, they succeeded in pulling the entire world of Zendikar back from the brink of extinction. Now, in the aftermath of their victory, Gideon, Jace, Chandra, and Nissa must decide what will come next."
so, it seems that the Titans were destroyed. or at least 99.99% sure.
i'd laugh if Ugin appears after it's all done, scolds the "kids" for what they have done, and we get another reprint of Tormenting Voice featuring any of the Gatewatch members with new flavor text concerning Ugin's revelation of what the consequences of their actions will be.
Well, if the Eldrazi are truly defeated I am definitely in the camp that's disappointed by this story (and much of the storytelling itself). I wasnt wooed by this story and the ending was beyond disappointing. I completely disagree with Maro's statement about the team losing their first battle would be bad. Some of the most compelling storytelling is how a protagonist responds to defeat and if theyre able to overcome the loss. They obviously just wanted to force the Justice League as much as possible.
The Eldrazi were suppose to be inscrutable, monstrosities from the Blind Eternities and they just end up losing to a bunch of boy scouts. It was disheartening to hear that Creative never really thought about the Eldrazi winning. But oh well, what's done is done. I hope future stories are more compelling. At the very least Ugin better be enraged, and seek out some kind of "justice" for disobeying him. Heck, I would like it if he actually became an enemy of the Gatewatch. That would create interesting tension if they ever had to team up to fight big bads that threaten worlds or the Multiverse itself.
My take away (besides the okay nature of the piece itself) was that we don't see any bodies. We see Titan-shaped holes in the smoke, but at no point do they actually burn. So I'm holding out hope that they actually just got freed, especially since there were still Eldrazi spawn around to mop up afterwards.
I too am thinking the titans may have been freed. After Jace's constant warnings for Chandra not to burninate them lest they escape, how does it all end? With Chandra burninating them.
Maybe I misread the story, but what I interpreted was that the Titans were like... Flash fried, and their burnet husks stood fully intact and were slowly blown away to the wind. But maybe I misunderstood. It doesn't really matter sincethey could bring them back sooner or later if they so decide. I'm still under the assumption that for now, for us as an audience and the story at large we are supposed to be continuing the story assuming the Titans are dead until the point they decide to bring them back, if ever of course. In other words we're probably supposed to for now assume the plot thread for these two Titans is tied up.
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They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
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Hopefully they spend some time assessing the environmental impact of all this. It would seem that Zendikar went from 'mana jungle' to 'mana desert'. I also wonder if there is enough life/people remaining for the plane to recover. How many would you need to re-populate a whole world?
It is kind of contrived that the only four planeswalkers we have trying to save Zendikar are the exact four with the exact skills needed to pull off this insanity (Jace to unravel the solution, Gideon to organise the bait, Nissa to channel the power of the leylines, and Chandra to be the "big gun"), but no more-so than is common in team-up fiction.
Well, the three scenarios you've mentioned do all have unique explanations. Kiora is wielding the Bident of Thassa, which is allowing her to do things she'd normally never be able to do. And the latter two are entirely due to Nissa's personal connection with Zendikar and the Leyline pattern they'd created, and are one-off special situations that will likely never happen again off Zendikar.
You do, however, raise a point that is one of my strongest complaints about Magic's storyline--the ridiculous lack of consistency when it comes to exactly how powerful Oldwalkers were. None of the writers seemed to be able to agree on how powerful they were, and at several times, the oldwalkers had to just forget about their powers in order for drama to be preserved. At numerous points during the Weatherlight saga, I found myself asking "Why didn't they just ____?". It's the same complaint people are having now about the Eldrazi, who in BFZ were as strong as the plot needed them to be at the time. I'm very glad they're gone if only so that I don't have to deal with that consistently. My favorite pre-mending story is the Kamigawa block story, and a large part of that is probably because there were no oldwalkers in it at all.
That all said, nothing that happened here was anything that a very powerful mage couldn't do, should that powerful mage have found themselves in the exact same circumstances that the Gatewatch and Kiora found themselves in. None of these feats were accomplished by the planeswalkers by themselves.
I agree with your point about consistency. But I disagree on the other point (I'll call it 'special circumstances').
From the article:
"A wall of water three miles wide rose into the air. It swirled and twined into a single mass, a floating, shimmering shape shot through with sea plants and coral and fish. It was a seawater globe, hovering overhead. Kiora had emptied the entire Halimar Sea, and was holding it through the strength of her will. "
Three mile wide body of water. Three *miles*. An entire sea formed into one giant globe of seawater. How is this not absolutely unbelievable? Nowhere else that I can recall did Kiora manipulate this much water, and not just make it move, but lift it in the air. Thassa I recall flooding cities. But that was a god + godly weapon. I can understand that 'special circumstances' is an available excuse placed there by the writers, but it doesn't make sense. A mage + a god's bident (when she left Theros with it, it was described as losing some of its glamor, less godly looking) can combine to lift an entire sea? For reference, Gideon took Heliod's spear and when it was flung back at him, it wiped out the small area around him. Elspeth killed a hydra with the Godsend, and struck down a god in the land of the gods. What sense does it make for Thassa's bident to, on another plane entirely, assist in lifting an entire sea. An entire sea. I don't recall any oldwalker performing a similar feat. An entire sea is not small potatoes.
As for Nissa's attunement to the plane allowing her to channel ALL the power of the plane, there too I can't agree (though I can't bring as strong an argument to bear). 'Special circumstances' there may be, but I don't recall any instance where a mage tied to a plane managed the same thing. The closest things I can think of are oldwalkers and their connection to the artificial planes they themselves created. If there is an example of a mage tied to a plane being able to bring the entirety of that plane's power to bear, please let me know (not being snide, I legit want to be told).
As for Chandra, how does that much power not consume someone? The sylex leveled a continent and cooked everyone, regardless of who they were. Chandra destroys plane encompassing monstrosities with the power of a plane, and is only a little tuckered out.
A point unrelated to this convo: If Zendikar has been getting eaten and is almost completely consumed and almost empty of mana, as we're led to believe, how could the small amount left destroy the things that eat mana for breakfast, who are filled with it and are literally incomprehensible in size and power?
I tend to rant, so don't anyone ever take it personally.
EDIT: Does Doug not understand size? The Eldrazi were a hundred feet tall? The design on the ground was a hundred feet wide? For reference, one hundred feet is less than half a (American) football field.
+10 respect points to Jace.
I'm still seriously baffled to why people like Kiora. She does UG poorly, she doesn't work well with anyone and she still has an absurd ego despite being 0-2 against relevant opponents. The parts of this story written from her perspective is incredibly forced and unnecessary. Why not write from Nissa or Jace? You know, the ones that have the most important jobs in the attempt to kill the titans. Speaking of which, two of most "terrifying" beings in the Multiverse get killed in one short story? Yeah, no that makes sense.
I look forward to Shadows of Innistrad if only because I get a reprieve from Kiora's annoying presence. Oh but I'm sure the writers will find a way to make her show up on Innistrad because "PEOPLE LIKE HER LOL."
(Not gonna lie, I lingered at the part where Jace counterspell'd Kiora into a temper-tantrum salt baby. I hate Jace a lot less now because of that.)
(Man, I really hate Kiora.)
"Kiora is the Aquaman of planeswalkers."
"Useless and everyone pretends to like her?"
As for the other points about other consistencies, those, are definitely head-scratchingly frustrating. Particularly the size of the titans constantly changing.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
This pretty much.
You guys actually want it to be ambiguous and for the titans to have escaped? For there to be another round against the titans, where people will again moan about them not being untouchable? Pass.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I kind of wanted Ghostfire as well but it seemed like it was out with artbook and cards since it seems like they'd have said it by name. Besides that, though, I don't recall where but I seem to recall reading that Chandra had actually had the memory of how to cast Ghostfire removed but I forget where and by whom, so I may be recalling incorrectly.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
Calling it now, MTG tournament arc 2017. You heard it here first.
As for the story today, pretty good delivery on a very wonky plot moment. On the downside the writing jumped between Chandra and Kiora too much. Each time I figured out what was going on the perspective would switch.
The Eldrazi form-shifting was neat, and felt climactic enough. Nissa's channeling was also neat, as well as her sharing of it with Chandra.
The choice to include Kiora was interesting--had the Art Book and Fat Pack brochure not existed, no one would be complaining of Kiora's involvement. I think she does well here--but I wouldn't mind an explanation as to why she does not officially join the Gatewatch--that is the only large confusion to her "new" role.
I also was intrigued by the focus on Chandra and Kiora, especially when most of the block focused on Gideon and Jace. The gender reversal here is intriguing. And while Gideon leads and Jace thinks, we get women who (stereotypically?) bind people together and work as a team, lending strength to one another (Nissa to Chandra). Kiora is another matter, but another female lens, interestingly enough. This female-focus is new and intriguing--especially for the climax. Of course we get women tied closely to the land and nature--perhaps that is not uncommon as a story structure.
I'm fine with the closure--I think is was definitely one of Doug's strongest pieces. He did well including references as key phrases and words throughout the story--Keral Keep, ingest, processors, ablaze, allies, etc.
Kiora draining out Zendikar's entire ocean and hurling it at Nissa? I don't doubt the Bident's ability to accomplish this, but the mere act just felt like a typical Avengers movie, where grandiose, adrenaline-laden action scenes with minimal purpose to resolving the plot try to compensate for any real, respectable material. Weren't the titans materializing in reality, an entire plane combating them with its mana, and the death of Eldritch cosmic horrors in one short, rushed story enough of a thrill? There needs to be focus in storytelling, and piling on more adrenaline to wean away from adequate descriptive text in key story moments compromises attention. Restraint would have worked wonders for this piece. Major action scenes like this truly test a writer's capabilities. The instinct is to make it flashy and overwhelming - but it peters out without focused content. Never overtax your reader by splitting their attention between something unnecessary and irrelevant. I'm not going to address a simple counterspell negating a god-weapon cast spell, even if it was for humor.
All this rush, only to go nowhere. I could see any writer, without access to Creative's notes reproducing this by taking the most literal approach to storytelling. I can only respect the idea of the Eldrazi engaged in a consumption war with the plane, being more adept at winning it, and the mysterious ending. Otherwise, this story did not engage my emotions whatsoever the way Kelly Digges has been known to do, or The Blight We Were Born For had. Those were stories that built up to and fleshed out critical plot moments, that honed in a reader's focus and kept momentum when unforeseen twists took place. This was just one homogenous free-for-all explosion of adrenaline and logistics that was confusing and tiring.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
WTF #1
Kiora draining the Halimar Sea - well, if I recall correctly, [card-Umara Entangler]Halimar Sea was emptied[/card] when Sea Gate wall fell. What exactly Kiora drained and hurled to Chandra? I reckon there was some water from the rivers that feed the sea, but without the wall, there should be no large body of water to manipulate.
WTF #2
Yeah, I know Gideon is invulnerable, but him blocking an entire LANDMASS (an island) falling down to Chandra, and shattering it?
Epic moment #1
The "merging" of Zendikar reality and the titans. This was very well done.
Epic moment #2
From time to time, Doug creates a true gem. Even in Alara Unbroken there were a couple of such lines.
Welcome, this is Doug for you. All his action scenes (Alara Unbroken, The Secretist) read like a transcription of an action movie on screen. He was actually quite modest here. But the "entire sea" moment was too much, I agree.
But I must say I liked it overall. The story has a sense of desperation, everything hanging on one precious moment, Kiora turning against the others, as well as the aftermath - no words said, just everybody shaken, hurt, and in disbelief what just happened.
I think that Nissa and Chandra have a good chance for developing some kind of PTSD, but this is probably too serious a topic to be actually employed here by Wizards.
The scene with Nissa nodding, joining forces with Chandra to channel-fireball the titans was as much movielike as you woud expect.
As for Kiora, I wonder what the authors intend to do with her now. It is no secret that like many others here, I would like to see the insufferable brat finally taught a lesson, and developing further. Being owned by Kozilek? Nope, not enough. She just got her toy fork back. Almost screwing up a plan and killing a world she wanted to protect? I can see her becoming an outlaw, or a recluse haunted by her own conscience - what she could have caused. But that would be probably too much to ask.
We will see next week. I hope.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I too am thinking the titans may have been freed. After Jace's constant warnings for Chandra not to burninate them lest they escape, how does it all end? With Chandra burninating them.
Standard
BWC Eldrazi
UBR Grixis Tutelage
Modern
UR Storm
Legacy
Landless Dredge
Pauper
U Delver
Commander
UR Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Yeah. At this point, we must largely ignore the material from the Fat Packs talking about "Kiora fleeing in despair" or "the charred remnants of the Titans".
The fact that Chandra burned them as a really last option left to them (except giving up and dying) makes the ending more acceptable.
It is still not what I would prefer (and neither do the local vocal haters), but it is better than just "let's lure them here and KILL THEM WITH FIRE", as it might look like from the initial very limited and brief info.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
EPISODE 10: ZENDIKAR RESURGENT
"The four Planeswalkers who came together to battle the Eldrazi have won! In destroying the titans Ulamog and Kozilek, they succeeded in pulling the entire world of Zendikar back from the brink of extinction. Now, in the aftermath of their victory, Gideon, Jace, Chandra, and Nissa must decide what will come next."
so, it seems that the Titans were destroyed. or at least 99.99% sure.
i'd laugh if Ugin appears after it's all done, scolds the "kids" for what they have done, and we get another reprint of Tormenting Voice featuring any of the Gatewatch members with new flavor text concerning Ugin's revelation of what the consequences of their actions will be.
The Eldrazi were suppose to be inscrutable, monstrosities from the Blind Eternities and they just end up losing to a bunch of boy scouts. It was disheartening to hear that Creative never really thought about the Eldrazi winning. But oh well, what's done is done. I hope future stories are more compelling. At the very least Ugin better be enraged, and seek out some kind of "justice" for disobeying him. Heck, I would like it if he actually became an enemy of the Gatewatch. That would create interesting tension if they ever had to team up to fight big bads that threaten worlds or the Multiverse itself.
Maybe I misread the story, but what I interpreted was that the Titans were like... Flash fried, and their burnet husks stood fully intact and were slowly blown away to the wind. But maybe I misunderstood. It doesn't really matter sincethey could bring them back sooner or later if they so decide. I'm still under the assumption that for now, for us as an audience and the story at large we are supposed to be continuing the story assuming the Titans are dead until the point they decide to bring them back, if ever of course. In other words we're probably supposed to for now assume the plot thread for these two Titans is tied up.
But the people behind the barrier knew.