Not sure if anyone talked about this before. Jeskai Dragon Slayer, like Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, all have dragon tattoos on them to symbolize their feat. However, judging from what I saw so far, none of those tattoo resembles the Tarkir dragons (with wings), more like Kamigawa style dragons (serpents). Am I missing something?
Not sure if anyone talked about this before. Jeskai Dragon Slayer, like Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, all have dragon tattoos on them to symbolize their feat. However, judging from what I saw so far, none of those tattoo resembles the Tarkir dragons (with wings), more like Kamigawa style dragons (serpents). Am I missing something?
They're stylized representations of dragons. The Jeskai are meant to evoke Chinese Kung Fu masters, so it makes sense that stylistically their tattoos look like chinese dragons even if Tarkir's do not.
It's also possible that Tarkir once had dragons that looked more like that, or that creative simple went with the precedent set in Ghostfire, which was around long before Tarkir.
When you look at the Tapestry of the Ages picture, Ugin's representation is done in very Chinese style. Maybe that is just how Jeskai were doing their stylization.
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Interestingly, or perhaps not, Ral Zarek also has the same Dragon tattoo around his arm. and his middle ability is a bolt. Albeit, not colorless.
Never thought about this until you just mentioned it, but is it possible that Ral studied ghostfire with the Jeskai? He is in their colors and who knows what all he's been up to outside Ravnica. Could be an interesting story if he ever ruturns to Tarkir to find that the clan he studied under never existed (or at least hasn't existed since over a thousand years before he was born).
EDIT: And also that the extinct dragons now rule everything.
Interestingly, or perhaps not, Ral Zarek also has the same Dragon tattoo around his arm. and his middle ability is a bolt. Albeit, not colorless.
Never thought about this until you just mentioned it, but is it possible that Ral studied ghostfire with the Jeskai? He is in their colors and who knows what all he's been up to outside Ravnica. Could be an interesting story if he ever ruturns to Tarkir to find that the clan he studied under never existed (or at least hasn't existed since over a thousand years before he was born).
EDIT: And also that the extinct dragons now rule everything.
The tattoo would also disappear from his arm and he'd have no memory of his time with the Jeskai.
Interestingly, or perhaps not, Ral Zarek also has the same Dragon tattoo around his arm. and his middle ability is a bolt. Albeit, not colorless.
Never thought about this until you just mentioned it, but is it possible that Ral studied ghostfire with the Jeskai? He is in their colors and who knows what all he's been up to outside Ravnica. Could be an interesting story if he ever ruturns to Tarkir to find that the clan he studied under never existed (or at least hasn't existed since over a thousand years before he was born).
EDIT: And also that the extinct dragons now rule everything.
First of all, he is such a jerk that I sincerely doubt he would not be thrown through the door after the first arrogant fit. If he ever was accepted for study, that I doubt even more.
Otherwise, as TerrorKingA says, he would not remember the time with Jeskai.
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Interestingly, or perhaps not, Ral Zarek also has the same Dragon tattoo around his arm. and his middle ability is a bolt. Albeit, not colorless.
Never thought about this until you just mentioned it, but is it possible that Ral studied ghostfire with the Jeskai? He is in their colors and who knows what all he's been up to outside Ravnica. Could be an interesting story if he ever ruturns to Tarkir to find that the clan he studied under never existed (or at least hasn't existed since over a thousand years before he was born).
EDIT: And also that the extinct dragons now rule everything.
The tattoo would also disappear from his arm and he'd have no memory of his time with the Jeskai.
Non-multiversal time travel stories suck.
Well, technically the tattoo wouldn't disappear, because it would have never been there to begin with.
Though, I doubt the tattoo does have anything to do with the Jeskai at all. Ral doesn't strike me as the kind of person who'd study with Jeskai monks.
That's actually something I hadn't realized, I remember some discussion of Ral's tattoo and its possible origins when he was first revealed, but didn't ever notice how similar the ghostfire warrior tattoo was until you mentioned it. However, as mentioned above, Ral is NOT the kind of person who would be accepted by the Jeskai.
The tattoo wouldn't disappear. With the fact that the multiverse would remember a sarkhan coming from old tarkir can be taken both ways. Ral Would still remember studying with the jeskai of khans of tarkir but wouldn't be able to planeswalk there because they no longer exist. I.e if you had an Artifact from khans and took it to another world it wouldn't cease to be because tarkirs time change only affects tarkir. Also there was a school in jeskai whose sole purpose of study was that of trickery and chaos (RU). It would make sense for him to have learnt there and be able to cause chaos.
That does not make sense at all. For anyone in this timeline younger than 1280 years, the Jeskai just do not exist and never existed.
Whereas you say that the Tarkir timeline change only affected Tarkir, anyone who interacted with Khan-Tarkir in the old timeline either interacted with Dragon-Tarkir or not at all. That is how I understand it.
As for the trickery and chaos, he did not express anything of these anyway. He was just a power-hungry jerk.
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Ral's tattoo is most likely a stylized Niv Mizzet. He belongs to a guild with a very vain dragon at the head. It's also in the wrong place. Shu Yun and Ghostfire both show the Ghostfire Warrior Tattoo curling up the chest and around the back of the neck with the head on the other pectoral. Ral's tattoo is just on his forearm. Most likely, it's a vanity piece for Ral, too, as he considers himself Niv Mizzet's equal.
Take the Izzet Signet's Flavortext:
"The Izzet signet is redesigned often, each time becoming closer to a vanity portrait of Niv-Mizzet."
His abilities are very closely tied to the Izzet. His 'bolt' is literally just that, a lightning bolt. The only overlap between the Jeskai and Izzet is mechanical, they are almost completely different in every other way.
Sarkhan is a living paradox, I'm sure he's the only exception that remembers the 'original' timeline, and being a paradox, is the reason other people remember him from outside of Tarkir (which is debatable, but for Zendikar to happen he kind of had to be there).
Ral's tattoo is most likely a stylized Niv Mizzet. He belongs to a guild with a very vain dragon at the head.
This seems unlikely to me as it looks nothing like Niv-Mizzet at all. If anything, it looks more like a wurm with legs. Add in the fact that he doesn't like Niv and this holds no water.
Ral's tattoo is most likely a stylized Niv Mizzet. He belongs to a guild with a very vain dragon at the head.
This seems unlikely to me as it looks nothing like Niv-Mizzet at all. If anything, it looks more like a wurm with legs. Add in the fact that he doesn't like Niv and this holds no water.
And somehow him studying with the Jeskai does, despite everything about that thought that makes no sense? We've already discussed stylization in this very thread. And Ghostfire Warriors have the 'third eye' in addition to the tattoo. And they only get the tattoo once they're sufficiently skilled to kill a dragon - only the most elite can do so.
The Izzet Signet doesn't really look like Niv either. But the head looks just like Ral's tattoo:
The whole point of the quote I mentioned earlier is that Niv Mizzet is very much into modifying depictions of himself.
Ral's tattoo is most likely a stylized Niv Mizzet. He belongs to a guild with a very vain dragon at the head.
This seems unlikely to me as it looks nothing like Niv-Mizzet at all. If anything, it looks more like a wurm with legs. Add in the fact that he doesn't like Niv and this holds no water.
And somehow him studying with the Jeskai does, despite everything about that thought that makes no sense? We've already discussed stylization in this very thread. And Ghostfire Warriors have the 'third eye' in addition to the tattoo. And they only get the tattoo once they're sufficiently skilled to kill a dragon - only the most elite can do so.
The Izzet Signet doesn't really look like Niv either. But the head looks just like Ral's tattoo:
The whole point of the quote I mentioned earlier is that Niv Mizzet is very much into modifying depictions of himself.
I'm not saying that Ral studying with the Jeskai makes sense, just that his tattoo being Niv doesn't. The head on his tattoo looks like a Charizard's head too. All that proves is that it's a dragon. The differences in the lack of wings and wyrm-like structure seem more significant to me than the similarities of the reptilian heads.
If the redesigns of the signet bring it closer to a portrait of Niv with each version, then the tattoo makes even less sense as a depiction of Niv because, again, it looks nothing like him. The Izzet Signet art looks significantly more like Niv than the tattoo and it's older.
If the redesigns of the signet bring it closer to a portrait of Niv with each version, then the tattoo makes even less sense as a depiction of Niv because, again, it looks nothing like him. The Izzet Signet art looks significantly more like Niv than the tattoo and it's older.
Again, it's a vanity portrait, not an accurate portrayal of Niv. Neither the tattoo nor the signet are accurate representations of Niv. Just like the Ghostfire Warrior tattoos look nothing like Ugin. But it's easy to see how a stylization like the signet or like this of Ugin:
It's very easy to see how these could be stylized even further into the tattoos we've seen.
Alternatively, they could just be 'generic' stylized Dragons. Ral is an egotist, so he may think himself Niv's equal, and thus tattooed himself with a dragon because of that. Or just because he's a member of the Dragon's guild (the 'last' Dragon on Ravnica). The Ghostfire Warriors may simply have their own stylized dragon tattoos for similar reasons. Maybe they just don't want honor specific dragon broods and use the marks to indicate they're as powerful as a dragon. Neither necessarily have to be representations of specific dragons.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
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It's also possible that Tarkir once had dragons that looked more like that, or that creative simple went with the precedent set in Ghostfire, which was around long before Tarkir.
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Never thought about this until you just mentioned it, but is it possible that Ral studied ghostfire with the Jeskai? He is in their colors and who knows what all he's been up to outside Ravnica. Could be an interesting story if he ever ruturns to Tarkir to find that the clan he studied under never existed (or at least hasn't existed since over a thousand years before he was born).
EDIT: And also that the extinct dragons now rule everything.
Commander Decks
WDarien, King of KjeldorW - WYomiji, Who Bars the WayW - UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
BPhage the UntouchableB - BShirei,
Shadowborn Ap-Shizo's CaretakerB - RZirilan of the ClawR(W/U)Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper(W/U) - (2/G)Phelddagrif Politics(W/U) - (U/B)Mishra, Artificer Prodigy(U/R) - Karona, God of Voltron
The tattoo would also disappear from his arm and he'd have no memory of his time with the Jeskai.
Non-multiversal time travel stories suck.
Your mods are terrified of me.
First of all, he is such a jerk that I sincerely doubt he would not be thrown through the door after the first arrogant fit. If he ever was accepted for study, that I doubt even more.
Otherwise, as TerrorKingA says, he would not remember the time with Jeskai.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
That's dumb.
I'll be checking to see if the tattoo is still there the next time we see him though.
Commander Decks
WDarien, King of KjeldorW - WYomiji, Who Bars the WayW - UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
BPhage the UntouchableB - BShirei,
Shadowborn Ap-Shizo's CaretakerB - RZirilan of the ClawR(W/U)Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper(W/U) - (2/G)Phelddagrif Politics(W/U) - (U/B)Mishra, Artificer Prodigy(U/R) - Karona, God of Voltron
Well, technically the tattoo wouldn't disappear, because it would have never been there to begin with.
Though, I doubt the tattoo does have anything to do with the Jeskai at all. Ral doesn't strike me as the kind of person who'd study with Jeskai monks.
That does not make sense at all. For anyone in this timeline younger than 1280 years, the Jeskai just do not exist and never existed.
Whereas you say that the Tarkir timeline change only affected Tarkir, anyone who interacted with Khan-Tarkir in the old timeline either interacted with Dragon-Tarkir or not at all. That is how I understand it.
As for the trickery and chaos, he did not express anything of these anyway. He was just a power-hungry jerk.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Take the Izzet Signet's Flavortext:
"The Izzet signet is redesigned often, each time becoming closer to a vanity portrait of Niv-Mizzet."
His abilities are very closely tied to the Izzet. His 'bolt' is literally just that, a lightning bolt. The only overlap between the Jeskai and Izzet is mechanical, they are almost completely different in every other way.
Sarkhan is a living paradox, I'm sure he's the only exception that remembers the 'original' timeline, and being a paradox, is the reason other people remember him from outside of Tarkir (which is debatable, but for Zendikar to happen he kind of had to be there).
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This seems unlikely to me as it looks nothing like Niv-Mizzet at all. If anything, it looks more like a wurm with legs. Add in the fact that he doesn't like Niv and this holds no water.
Commander Decks
WDarien, King of KjeldorW - WYomiji, Who Bars the WayW - UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
BPhage the UntouchableB - BShirei,
Shadowborn Ap-Shizo's CaretakerB - RZirilan of the ClawR(W/U)Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper(W/U) - (2/G)Phelddagrif Politics(W/U) - (U/B)Mishra, Artificer Prodigy(U/R) - Karona, God of Voltron
The Izzet Signet doesn't really look like Niv either. But the head looks just like Ral's tattoo:
The whole point of the quote I mentioned earlier is that Niv Mizzet is very much into modifying depictions of himself.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I'm not saying that Ral studying with the Jeskai makes sense, just that his tattoo being Niv doesn't. The head on his tattoo looks like a Charizard's head too. All that proves is that it's a dragon. The differences in the lack of wings and wyrm-like structure seem more significant to me than the similarities of the reptilian heads.
If the redesigns of the signet bring it closer to a portrait of Niv with each version, then the tattoo makes even less sense as a depiction of Niv because, again, it looks nothing like him. The Izzet Signet art looks significantly more like Niv than the tattoo and it's older.
Commander Decks
WDarien, King of KjeldorW - WYomiji, Who Bars the WayW - UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
BPhage the UntouchableB - BShirei,
Shadowborn Ap-Shizo's CaretakerB - RZirilan of the ClawR(W/U)Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper(W/U) - (2/G)Phelddagrif Politics(W/U) - (U/B)Mishra, Artificer Prodigy(U/R) - Karona, God of Voltron
It's very easy to see how these could be stylized even further into the tattoos we've seen.
Alternatively, they could just be 'generic' stylized Dragons. Ral is an egotist, so he may think himself Niv's equal, and thus tattooed himself with a dragon because of that. Or just because he's a member of the Dragon's guild (the 'last' Dragon on Ravnica). The Ghostfire Warriors may simply have their own stylized dragon tattoos for similar reasons. Maybe they just don't want honor specific dragon broods and use the marks to indicate they're as powerful as a dragon. Neither necessarily have to be representations of specific dragons.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath