This is true, however why then the covering of her eyes?
Why is Iroas, the RW god, a centaur despite the fact that centaurs are traditionally green.
I don't know, Karametra's design and the fact that she's depicted of Commune with the Gods just screams GW to me.
It should also be noted that the braids in her face aren't covering her eyes exclusively but rather go around her entire face. If they wanted to show that she has to cover her eyes only then I would have expected more emphasis on that.
As for why her eyes are covered at all, well beats me. Only thing I can think of is that since she's the goddess of orphans and community (among others) she turns a blind eye on people's heritage and loves everyone equally, similar to the idea behind justice. But I feel like I'm grasping at straws here.
Why? Xenagos has simple become a god; there's no word that other 14 gods of Theros died, and they probably won't die since we're going to get the other 10 god cards.
Well not yet. do you think there will be a climax in journey into nyx where there is a giant battle? What if this is like the trojan war where the gods choose sides?
Why is Iroas, the RW god, a centaur despite the fact that centaurs are traditionally green.
Not quite. There have been red centaurs before. Actually, centaurs were red before they were green, and the centaurs of Greek mythology are thoroughly red; Chiron is the notable exception, from which Seton and the Selesnya centaurs seem to be derived from. (But even then, Gruul centaurs exist on Ravnica too. Strangely no Simic ones, what with their love of chimeric types.)
I don't know, Karametra's design and the fact that she's depicted of Commune with the Gods just screams GW to me.
If she's related to Demeter, she would be. Remember that eastern Mediterranean agricultural techniques involve neat little rows. Which...sounds familiar. Somewhere?
Also, agriculture, while not required for civilization, helps a lot. And farmers tend to have more children than nomadic hunters, which also goes to GW's theme.
As for why her eyes are covered at all, well beats me. Only thing I can think of is that since she's the goddess of orphans and community (among others) she turns a blind eye on people's heritage and loves everyone equally, similar to the idea behind justice. But I feel like I'm grasping at straws here.
Not necessarily. Despite green's emphasis on what you're born as, the green guilds on Ravnica seemed the most able to accept anyone. (Selesnya simply required you subscribe to the same ideology; Gruul and Golgari were quite openly accepting of all pariahs from the rest of Ravnica; and Simic openly sought an alliance with the other green guilds.)
In short, once you start mixing two colors, a lot of the extremes disappear.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Not quite. There have been red centaurs before. Actually, centaurs were red before they were green, and the centaurs of Greek mythology are thoroughly red; Chiron is the notable exception, from which Seton and the Selesnya centaurs seem to be derived from. (But even then, Gruul centaurs exist on Ravnica too. Strangely no Simic ones, what with their love of chimeric types.)
Yes, but that's like saying that sphinxes are traditionally white, because the first sphinx was Petra Sphinx. Centaurs in magic are traditionally green and only very rarely dip into the other colours and even then they're still often two coloured. However, having a two-coloured centaur with none of the colours being green is more than weird. Note that I am not saying that I don't believe Iroas is the centaur god. It just strikes me as incredibly weird. It's like having the GU god be a gorgon.
After giving it some thought however, I guess it makes sense if Iroas is an ox-taur instead of a horse hybrid. This way he'd be the counterpart for Mogis, who is a Minotaur, also an ox-human hybrid. After all, they're both the twins of war.
If she's related to Demeter, she would be. Remember that eastern Mediterranean agricultural techniques involve neat little rows. Which...sounds familiar. Somewhere?
Also, agriculture, while not required for civilization, helps a lot. And farmers tend to have more children than nomadic hunters, which also goes to GW's theme.
I'm sorry. By "Karametra's design" Imeant "the design of the statue", which means I think the statue depicts Karametra. Karametra being GW is pretty much confirmed at this point.
After giving it some thought however, I guess it makes sense if Iroas is an ox-taur instead of a horse hybrid. This way he'd be the counterpart for Mogis, who is a Minotaur, also an ox-human hybrid. After all, they're both the twins of war.
"The twins of war"? Did you make that up, or do we have confirmation that these two are actually twins?
I'm sorry. By "Karametra's design" Imeant "the design of the statue", which means I think the statue depicts Karametra. Karametra being GW is pretty much confirmed at this point.
"Pretty much" nothing. She is explicitly called out in reverence on a white card and a green card.
100% confirmed.
After giving it some thought however, I guess it makes sense if Iroas is an ox-taur instead of a horse hybrid. This way he'd be the counterpart for Mogis, who is a Minotaur, also an ox-human hybrid. After all, they're both the twins of war.
This is what I believe as well. Mogis have the Ox head and Iroas have the rest of the Ox boddy. So, his not a centaur.
Centaurs in Theros are primary green, secondary white, theres no point in arguing for red centaurs, they are not red that's a fact. In Theros it seens people don't have restrictions for worship (WU meletians worship Purphoros and Nylea, GW setessian worship iroas and mogis, etc...).
This is what I believe as well. Mogis have the Ox head and Iroas have the rest of the Ox boddy. So, his not a centaur.
Oh, I like that idea!
Centaurs in Theros are primary green, secondary white, theres no point in arguing for red centaurs, they are not red that's a fact.
Doesn't mean there couldn't be for a significant individual or two. Sorin is white and Jeleva is blue despite Innistrad vampire's colors being red and black.
Doesn't mean there couldn't be for a significant individual or two. Sorin is white and Jeleva is blue despite Innistrad vampire's colors being red and black.
Well, the original idea behind the centaurs in Greek mythology was that they were governed by their passions and really had a thing for raping. (They're most known for trying to carry off Hippodamia on her wedding day.)
...which also makes you almost feel sorry for poor Dolores Umbridge.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Doesn't mean there couldn't be for a significant individual or two. Sorin is white and Jeleva is blue despite Innistrad vampire's colors being red and black.
Both retain they primary original color (black).
Would a WR centaur be printed in Theros ? Very unlikely, a RG however is quite possible.
This is what I believe as well. Mogis have the Ox head and Iroas have the rest of the Ox boddy. So, his not a centaur.
I don't think in magic centaurs are restricted to horse hybrids. After all we already had antelopes, reindeer, stags, bisons and hell, even a bear. An ox-taur is still a centaur in my book.
There's something I've been wondering about. Now that we know actual, real gods exist in Magic, what does this imply for the religions mentioned in other settings? Some of them worshipped planeswalkers other other entities *as* gods, but does this allow for the possibility of real, capital-G Gods on other planes as well? Or are they unique to Theros? I'm specifically curious about Gaea. The wiki says that Yawgmoth referred to her as "the only true goddess of Dominaria." Thoughts?
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Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
Some religions on other planes were based in something legitimate (Kamigawa), but a lot of other religions were based on the deification of non-divine entities or a missunderstanding of how the natural order of the world works (Zendikars worshipping forgotten memories of the Eldrazi)
The Babylonians had semi-divine man-headed bulls -- not Greek as such, but part of the broader classical Mediterranean culture, and there are links between the mythologies (Adonis-Tammuz, etc).
So maybe we should refer to Iroas as a shedu if this is really his form.
It frustrates me that Xenagos is considered a :symr::symg: character, since he's so egotistical and self-centered. His quote in the flavor text of Annul is a great example of Black philosophy. Green is a color that values symbiosis; it should be supportive of the interdependence of gods and their worshipers. Green is also the color of destiny; it shouldn't have any problem with recognizing that some are born to be great and others are born to mediocrity, because both have their place in making the world as a whole function and persist. Xenagos is certainly Red in his impulsiveness and hedonism, but his bitterness at feeling small and insignificant, and his apparent dislike of the gods and their relationship with mortals, feels far more Black than Green.
Green as the life-force can value fixed relationships of interdependence and symbiosis when it's in a aspect - but when green tilts toward its other allied color it values destruction just as much: the breaking down of fixed structures so that new forms of life can sprout unrestrained. I think Xenagos' quote is a perfectly thing to say. Every living thing will fight for the space to grow in.
(And why a black-aligned character would take any interest in dispelling other people's illusions isn't clear to me. If someone else is fooling himself with false religion, so much the better: it makes him an easier target.)
The Babylonians had semi-divine man-headed bulls -- not Greek as such, but part of the broader classical Mediterranean culture, and there are links between the mythologies (Adonis-Tammuz, etc).
So maybe we should refer to Iroas as a shedu if this is really his form.
You'd more likely find that to be a lammasu. Even then, there's a massive difference between a centaur and such and Iroas is pretty clearly a centaur.
I went with the D&D-style distinction, as the broader term includes the lion-bodied version of the creature as well. Looks like the distinction is a bit blurry according to wiki. And yes, they're normally depicted with wings anyway, so not a perfect match.
Green as the life-force can value fixed relationships of interdependence and symbiosis when it's in a aspect - but when green tilts toward its other allied color it values destruction just as much: the breaking down of fixed structures so that new forms of life can sprout unrestrained. I think Xenagos' quote is a perfectly thing to say. Every living thing will fight for the space to grow in.
(And why a black-aligned character would take any interest in dispelling other people's illusions isn't clear to me. If someone else is fooling himself with false religion, so much the better: it makes him an easier target.)
Exactly. And Xenagos is motivated by bitterness and disillusionment above all things - hardly common Black motivations.
Added some info on the minor gods and add links to the cards related to the gods.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
May want to add Agent of Horizons to the cards associated with Kruphix.
I'm going more for cards that either show the gods or show creations, priests or spells of the gods.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Also, is either the top or bottom figure in the statue on Steam Augury believed to represent Keranos?
And the statue in Pharika's Cure is presumbly meant to be her.
I don't think he is.
Hard to tell what going on in steam augury.
Added Pharika's Cure.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
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Why is Iroas, the RW god, a centaur despite the fact that centaurs are traditionally green.
I don't know, Karametra's design and the fact that she's depicted of Commune with the Gods just screams GW to me.
It should also be noted that the braids in her face aren't covering her eyes exclusively but rather go around her entire face. If they wanted to show that she has to cover her eyes only then I would have expected more emphasis on that.
As for why her eyes are covered at all, well beats me. Only thing I can think of is that since she's the goddess of orphans and community (among others) she turns a blind eye on people's heritage and loves everyone equally, similar to the idea behind justice. But I feel like I'm grasping at straws here.
Well not yet. do you think there will be a climax in journey into nyx where there is a giant battle? What if this is like the trojan war where the gods choose sides?
Not quite. There have been red centaurs before. Actually, centaurs were red before they were green, and the centaurs of Greek mythology are thoroughly red; Chiron is the notable exception, from which Seton and the Selesnya centaurs seem to be derived from. (But even then, Gruul centaurs exist on Ravnica too. Strangely no Simic ones, what with their love of chimeric types.)
If she's related to Demeter, she would be. Remember that eastern Mediterranean agricultural techniques involve neat little rows. Which...sounds familiar. Somewhere?
Also, agriculture, while not required for civilization, helps a lot. And farmers tend to have more children than nomadic hunters, which also goes to GW's theme.
Not necessarily. Despite green's emphasis on what you're born as, the green guilds on Ravnica seemed the most able to accept anyone. (Selesnya simply required you subscribe to the same ideology; Gruul and Golgari were quite openly accepting of all pariahs from the rest of Ravnica; and Simic openly sought an alliance with the other green guilds.)
In short, once you start mixing two colors, a lot of the extremes disappear.
On phasing:
The Simic didn't join the Wilds Initiative until Zegana took control, though they were the only guild whose leader condoned the Initiative.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
Yes, but that's like saying that sphinxes are traditionally white, because the first sphinx was Petra Sphinx. Centaurs in magic are traditionally green and only very rarely dip into the other colours and even then they're still often two coloured. However, having a two-coloured centaur with none of the colours being green is more than weird. Note that I am not saying that I don't believe Iroas is the centaur god. It just strikes me as incredibly weird. It's like having the GU god be a gorgon.
After giving it some thought however, I guess it makes sense if Iroas is an ox-taur instead of a horse hybrid. This way he'd be the counterpart for Mogis, who is a Minotaur, also an ox-human hybrid. After all, they're both the twins of war.
I'm sorry. By "Karametra's design" Imeant "the design of the statue", which means I think the statue depicts Karametra. Karametra being GW is pretty much confirmed at this point.
"The twins of war"? Did you make that up, or do we have confirmation that these two are actually twins?
Fraternal, evidently.
"Pretty much" nothing. She is explicitly called out in reverence on a white card and a green card.
100% confirmed.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
This is what I believe as well. Mogis have the Ox head and Iroas have the rest of the Ox boddy. So, his not a centaur.
Centaurs in Theros are primary green, secondary white, theres no point in arguing for red centaurs, they are not red that's a fact. In Theros it seens people don't have restrictions for worship (WU meletians worship Purphoros and Nylea, GW setessian worship iroas and mogis, etc...).
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Oh, I like that idea!
Doesn't mean there couldn't be for a significant individual or two.
Sorin is white and Jeleva is blue despite Innistrad vampire's colors being red and black.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
Well, the original idea behind the centaurs in Greek mythology was that they were governed by their passions and really had a thing for raping. (They're most known for trying to carry off Hippodamia on her wedding day.)
...which also makes you almost feel sorry for poor Dolores Umbridge.
On phasing:
Both retain they primary original color (black).
Would a WR centaur be printed in Theros ? Very unlikely, a RG however is quite possible.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Aren't we in agreement then?
I don't think in magic centaurs are restricted to horse hybrids. After all we already had antelopes, reindeer, stags, bisons and hell, even a bear. An ox-taur is still a centaur in my book.
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
Some religions on other planes were based in something legitimate (Kamigawa), but a lot of other religions were based on the deification of non-divine entities or a missunderstanding of how the natural order of the world works (Zendikars worshipping forgotten memories of the Eldrazi)
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
I play and judge at Giga Bites Cafein Marietta, Georgia.
The Babylonians had semi-divine man-headed bulls -- not Greek as such, but part of the broader classical Mediterranean culture, and there are links between the mythologies (Adonis-Tammuz, etc).
So maybe we should refer to Iroas as a shedu if this is really his form.
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
planned: Kodama of the South Tree ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
G ~ ~ U ~ ~ W ~ ~ G
Green as the life-force can value fixed relationships of interdependence and symbiosis when it's in a aspect - but when green tilts toward its other allied color it values destruction just as much: the breaking down of fixed structures so that new forms of life can sprout unrestrained. I think Xenagos' quote is a perfectly thing to say. Every living thing will fight for the space to grow in.
(And why a black-aligned character would take any interest in dispelling other people's illusions isn't clear to me. If someone else is fooling himself with false religion, so much the better: it makes him an easier target.)
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
planned: Kodama of the South Tree ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
G ~ ~ U ~ ~ W ~ ~ G
You'd more likely find that to be a lammasu. Even then, there's a massive difference between a centaur and such and Iroas is pretty clearly a centaur.
I went with the D&D-style distinction, as the broader term includes the lion-bodied version of the creature as well. Looks like the distinction is a bit blurry according to wiki. And yes, they're normally depicted with wings anyway, so not a perfect match.
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
planned: Kodama of the South Tree ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
G ~ ~ U ~ ~ W ~ ~ G
Exactly. And Xenagos is motivated by bitterness and disillusionment above all things - hardly common Black motivations.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
planned: Kodama of the South Tree ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
G ~ ~ U ~ ~ W ~ ~ G
I'm going more for cards that either show the gods or show creations, priests or spells of the gods.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
The Agent of Horizons is an "acolyte" of Kruphix tho, right?
Also, is either the top or bottom figure in the statue on Steam Augury believed to represent Keranos?
And the statue in Pharika's Cure is presumbly meant to be her.
Rafiq of the Many
Kruphix, God of Horizons ~ Geist of Saint Traft ~ Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
planned: Kodama of the South Tree ~ Patron of the Moon ~ Mangara of Corondor
G ~ ~ U ~ ~ W ~ ~ G
Are you sure those are statues and not worshippers?
I don't think he is.
Hard to tell what going on in steam augury.
Added Pharika's Cure.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"