Hmm...is there something I'm missing or misinterpreting here? The introduction to the Innistrad Planeswalker Guide said that demons come back even when you kill them. So shouldn't we expect Kothoped to come back? Shouldn't Liliana expect Griselbrand to come back once she kills him? Or does the Chain Veil have the power to somehow keep them dead?
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Hmm...is there something I'm missing or misinterpreting here? The introduction to the Innistrad Planeswalker Guide said that demons come back even when you kill them. So shouldn't we expect Kothoped to come back? Shouldn't Liliana expect Griselbrand to come back once she kills him? Or does the Chain Veil have the power to somehow keep them dead?
That's Innistrad Demons, not demons in general.
Lilliana may not know about Innistrad demons, or she might have a trick up her sleeve. Or perhaps killing him once will break his curse.
I don't think it means it as literally as it is being taken.
I believe what they mean is you can never get rid of demons. If you kill one, a new one just regrows from the mana.
I'd love to see Liliana eventually get the last laugh: she gets the better of all her demons, gets her soul back in full and keeps her immortality and pre-mending powers.
But then again, I am also rooting for Bolas to regain his immortality and pre-mending powers, so I guess I root for similar styles.
As funny as that might be Baci we kind of can guess Lilly is in big trouble. Brady said something to the effect of, "I love Lilliana, she's so short sighted she has no idea what's coming for her."
As funny as that might be Baci we kind of can guess Lilly is in big trouble. Brady said something to the effect of, "I love Lilliana, she's so short sighted she has no idea what's coming for her."
Oh, yeah. That's why I am rooting for her. It's more fun for someone like lili to win instead of losing. Now take a big, dumb lug like Garruk. Seeing Garruk slowly lose himself to the veil curse, tracking Lili down only to maybe end up getting himself killed? That, too, equals pure win for me.
But then again I was always the guy to root for the Batman villains to win.
Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy a dark, bad guy wins story... when it's done well. The thing that makes those stories good is when they're not expected. As a kid, what made Xanatos a great villain to me was that when the show started you were like "WHAT?? THE BAD GUY WON! NO WAY!!!!" It was a shock. It's not really as much of one anymore.
I said this on another thread, the bad guy's have basically one in the last several blocks, or the good guys have essentially lost in the last several blocks.
1. Alara: I don't know if Bolas succeeded in absorbing the maelstrom's power so I won't necessarily call that a win, but the good guys still lost. Their worlds as they knew them are changed forever and not for the better.
2. Zendikar: For whatever reason, Bolas wanted the Eldrazi released and it happened. He got his way, Sorin and Nissa couldn't keep the darn things in their cages and now we have a world that's being trampled by giant Eldritch monstrosities.
3.Scars Block: Two words. New. Phyrexia. I mean, the biggest complaint from people was that everyone knew how that was going to turn out from jump.
That's three blocks in a row the bad guy has won. From a story perspective, for me at least, it would be a nice breather if Avacyn just turned out to be off doing something to try and tip the balance of power back in her and the humans favor and a victorious moment for the heroes. I know it probably won't happen but here me out.
1. Most of Wizard's stories lately, have had the first act be nice and happy, act two things start to get bad with intrigue, people behind the scenes not being on the side they seem and act three is the excrement hitting the proverbial fan.
2. In Innistrad though, we actually show up in what has essentially been act two for the last three blocks. Act two will escalate the conflict undoubtedly but it seems unlikely that the resolution would be: "And then it got even WORSE!!" This story seems to be setting up a Big Damn Heroes moment for Avacyn to return and restore some order.
What does this have to do with Lili? Well even if she destroys her demon she's not out of the woods yet but if this world is setting up a good guys win I'd like Lilli to get her demon but realize something is going horribly wrong and for Avacyn to purify Garruk's curse.
1. Alara: I don't know if Bolas succeeded in absorbing the maelstrom's power so I won't necessarily call that a win, but the good guys still lost. Their worlds as they knew them are changed forever and not for the better.
That was really going to happen anyways. There might not have been as much war if Bolas hadn't got his claws into the plane, but it was giong to happen anyways.
For the record too, Bolas supped 'pon the mana of the maelstrom. Ajani got the leftovers.
2. Zendikar: For whatever reason, Bolas wanted the Eldrazi released and it happened. He got his way, Sorin and Nissa couldn't keep the darn things in their cages and now we have a world that's being trampled by giant Eldritch monstrosities.
In all fairness, Nissa really broke things here. Bolas wanted it, but he wouldn't have gotten it without Nissa being too naive to live. I can assure you Bolas had nothing to do with THAT plot twist.
What does this have to do with Lili? Well even if she destroys her demon she's not out of the woods yet but if this world is setting up a good guys win I'd like Lilli to get her demon but realize something is going horribly wrong and for Avacyn to purify Garruk's curse.
Clipping the Garruk story short in this manner might not be a bad idea. You can't string that part along as long as you can Liliana's demon hunting... But things have already gone horribly wrong for her. We have the seeds of her story getting even larger with the entirety of the Raven Man revelations. There are a lot of unanswered questions, and really, the demons are the biggest threat to her.
Nicol Bolas, Omnipotent, with Sarkhan, Dragon Form and Tezzeret, Father of Machines v. Liliana of the Veil, with Garruk, Pawn of Vess and Ob Nixilis, Spawn Lord, with all the other planeswalkers scrambling to figure out where to hide.
That all depends on what happens with Garruk, Tezzeret, Liliana, and Ob.
That was really going to happen anyways. There might not have been as much war if Bolas hadn't got his claws into the plane, but it was giong to happen anyways.
For the record too, Bolas supped 'pon the mana of the maelstrom. Ajani got the leftovers.
In all fairness, Nissa really broke things here. Bolas wanted it, but he wouldn't have gotten it without Nissa being too naive to live. I can assure you Bolas had nothing to do with THAT plot twist.
Clipping the Garruk story short in this manner might not be a bad idea. You can't string that part along as long as you can Liliana's demon hunting... But things have already gone horribly wrong for her. We have the seeds of her story getting even larger with the entirety of the Raven Man revelations. There are a lot of unanswered questions, and really, the demons are the biggest threat to her.
Thanks for the clarification on the Ajani Bolas matter.
Nissa may have messed things up but Bolas got what he wanted. Doesn't change the Eldritch abominations running amok. The comics clearly show he wanted the Eldrazi loose for whatever reason.
As I've said this is a personal taste thing about wanting a clear good guy win this one time.
Does Sorrin have any history with Garruk? If so, Sorrin is Garruk's best hope to get rid of the curse, because on his own he's screwed. Chasing down Lili is likely going to end up with Garruk Stew for dinner, or worse, his own enslavement to her.
If Lili's shenanigans are going to end up threatening Innistrad, and Sorrin is returning home to this rather quaint and provincial plane, then that designates Sorrin as the good guy and Lili as the bad.
However, Lili's relationship with her demon casts her as the victim, and any actions she takes to finally break free of that casts her as the hero in her own story. Too bad it might cost her her soul in order to save it. That would, however, be very clever of the writers. She wins, yet in the end loses.
In all of this, Garruk is the dullest element. He is basically a muscle-bound brute who decided to beat the crap out of some girl who killed an attacking animal of his. Right off the bat, it is hard for me to be sympathetic to him. His beast was wild, attacking, and killed by Lili in self-defense. He then sought to offer retribution in the form of more violence, and ended up getting himself veil cursed by his supposed victim. He is now hunting her down, and it is not to beg her for forgiveness and ask that she try and remove the curse. He's still looking to give her a beating. Characters that only have one setting: brute force, are dull and deserve what's coming to them.
If Garruk ends up getting smoked or enslaved by Lili, I'll cheer.
Garruk does have other 'settings', as you put it. For example when confronting Jace, he only attacks after being attacked, and apologised when the violence got out of hand. Garruk is not an animal. He's just got very little patience for civilisation in general. And tell me you've never gotten sick of society, whether it is school or government.
Green PWs just like the other green creatures lack logic and intelligence. Not only Garruk but also Nissa is probably the most stupid PW ever
Isn't it time we had a wise old green-mana shaman, human or elf? I'm so tired of all the Planeswalkers being buff He-Man and She-Ra twenty year olds. Where's Grandma Elf, Ancient Gaia, or the Wise Old Druid for green?
Neowalkers do actually age as appropriate to their race's natural lifespan. One of the reasons Liliana is in this mess is because the day after the mending she woke up with more wrinkles than a german old age home and her boobs around her thighs.
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That's Innistrad Demons, not demons in general.
Lilliana may not know about Innistrad demons, or she might have a trick up her sleeve. Or perhaps killing him once will break his curse.
I believe what they mean is you can never get rid of demons. If you kill one, a new one just regrows from the mana.
But then again, I am also rooting for Bolas to regain his immortality and pre-mending powers, so I guess I root for similar styles.
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Oh, yeah. That's why I am rooting for her. It's more fun for someone like lili to win instead of losing. Now take a big, dumb lug like Garruk. Seeing Garruk slowly lose himself to the veil curse, tracking Lili down only to maybe end up getting himself killed? That, too, equals pure win for me.
But then again I was always the guy to root for the Batman villains to win.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
I said this on another thread, the bad guy's have basically one in the last several blocks, or the good guys have essentially lost in the last several blocks.
1. Alara: I don't know if Bolas succeeded in absorbing the maelstrom's power so I won't necessarily call that a win, but the good guys still lost. Their worlds as they knew them are changed forever and not for the better.
2. Zendikar: For whatever reason, Bolas wanted the Eldrazi released and it happened. He got his way, Sorin and Nissa couldn't keep the darn things in their cages and now we have a world that's being trampled by giant Eldritch monstrosities.
3.Scars Block: Two words. New. Phyrexia. I mean, the biggest complaint from people was that everyone knew how that was going to turn out from jump.
That's three blocks in a row the bad guy has won. From a story perspective, for me at least, it would be a nice breather if Avacyn just turned out to be off doing something to try and tip the balance of power back in her and the humans favor and a victorious moment for the heroes. I know it probably won't happen but here me out.
1. Most of Wizard's stories lately, have had the first act be nice and happy, act two things start to get bad with intrigue, people behind the scenes not being on the side they seem and act three is the excrement hitting the proverbial fan.
2. In Innistrad though, we actually show up in what has essentially been act two for the last three blocks. Act two will escalate the conflict undoubtedly but it seems unlikely that the resolution would be: "And then it got even WORSE!!" This story seems to be setting up a Big Damn Heroes moment for Avacyn to return and restore some order.
What does this have to do with Lili? Well even if she destroys her demon she's not out of the woods yet but if this world is setting up a good guys win I'd like Lilli to get her demon but realize something is going horribly wrong and for Avacyn to purify Garruk's curse.
You can check out my artwork here and here
That was really going to happen anyways. There might not have been as much war if Bolas hadn't got his claws into the plane, but it was giong to happen anyways.
For the record too, Bolas supped 'pon the mana of the maelstrom. Ajani got the leftovers.
In all fairness, Nissa really broke things here. Bolas wanted it, but he wouldn't have gotten it without Nissa being too naive to live. I can assure you Bolas had nothing to do with THAT plot twist.
Clipping the Garruk story short in this manner might not be a bad idea. You can't string that part along as long as you can Liliana's demon hunting... But things have already gone horribly wrong for her. We have the seeds of her story getting even larger with the entirety of the Raven Man revelations. There are a lot of unanswered questions, and really, the demons are the biggest threat to her.
Nicol Bolas, Omnipotent, with Sarkhan, Dragon Form and Tezzeret, Father of Machines v. Liliana of the Veil, with Garruk, Pawn of Vess and Ob Nixilis, Spawn Lord, with all the other planeswalkers scrambling to figure out where to hide.
That all depends on what happens with Garruk, Tezzeret, Liliana, and Ob.
Thanks for the clarification on the Ajani Bolas matter.
Nissa may have messed things up but Bolas got what he wanted. Doesn't change the Eldritch abominations running amok. The comics clearly show he wanted the Eldrazi loose for whatever reason.
As I've said this is a personal taste thing about wanting a clear good guy win this one time.
You can check out my artwork here and here
If Lili's shenanigans are going to end up threatening Innistrad, and Sorrin is returning home to this rather quaint and provincial plane, then that designates Sorrin as the good guy and Lili as the bad.
However, Lili's relationship with her demon casts her as the victim, and any actions she takes to finally break free of that casts her as the hero in her own story. Too bad it might cost her her soul in order to save it. That would, however, be very clever of the writers. She wins, yet in the end loses.
In all of this, Garruk is the dullest element. He is basically a muscle-bound brute who decided to beat the crap out of some girl who killed an attacking animal of his. Right off the bat, it is hard for me to be sympathetic to him. His beast was wild, attacking, and killed by Lili in self-defense. He then sought to offer retribution in the form of more violence, and ended up getting himself veil cursed by his supposed victim. He is now hunting her down, and it is not to beg her for forgiveness and ask that she try and remove the curse. He's still looking to give her a beating. Characters that only have one setting: brute force, are dull and deserve what's coming to them.
If Garruk ends up getting smoked or enslaved by Lili, I'll cheer.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
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The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
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That's a terrible cliche ascertation to make.
Isn't it time we had a wise old green-mana shaman, human or elf? I'm so tired of all the Planeswalkers being buff He-Man and She-Ra twenty year olds. Where's Grandma Elf, Ancient Gaia, or the Wise Old Druid for green?
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Decks:GU Evolver, W Modern Knights
Apprentice of Spell Manipulation
Archester: Frontier of Steam