yes the 2nd best and probably the worst with TOS crew
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"Here only miracles. Here, only the rising of spirit. And yes, love if it was pertinent (which it was so often); and sometimes bloodletting. But never the prosaic, never the trivial. Here the man who brought the strangest tale was the most welcome. Here every excess was celebrated if it brought visions, and every vision analyzed for the hints it held to the nature of the Everlasting." - Clive Barker's Imajica
Venser is just a forgettable character. The only things i recall about him is teleporting away from a lizard in the dessert and planeswalking away blowing up the weaver king. I can't really recall him doing anything of interest at all.
I feel like the only time I spend in the storyline section is defending Venser. His cowardice had plenty of backstory to justify it. Also, it was meant as a humorous counterweight to Radha. Much as she had a reason for being such a bad-ass, Venser had a reason for being such a coward.
I mean, the guy was a hermit who scavenged among Phyrexian ruins in arguably the darkest, most tainted place on Dominaria. Not only is that going to eat away at a persons fiber, but they're not going to survive it by being reckless. Carefulness pushed to the extreme sometimes equals cowardice - this is such a case.
I could talk about Venser all day. He's far from forgettable, and I don't think we've had such a memorable character in all the blocks since.
Acting as cowardly comic relief to balance the bloodthirsty Radha doesn't exactly spell out "compelling character" to me. We'll see what he's grown into now that he's had about a century of "sojourning" under his belt.
Edit: Agree with Ramenth below, just because a character's trait is justified doesn't make it less irritating. After all, someone could provide dozens of reasons for justifying the psychology and behavior of Jar Jar Binks, but that doesn't make him any more likable. To most people, at least.
Having back story to justify a Character Flaw doesn't make it any less grating to read about. He's not particularly forgettable, I'll agree, but he's not exactly likeable or interesting either.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
Acting as cowardly comic relief to balance the bloodthirsty Radha doesn't exactly spell out "compelling character" to me. We'll see what he's grown into now that he's had about a century of "sojourning" under his belt.
Filling a niche role is sometimes necessary. In this case, I don't think any of the characters in TS could be called "compelling," but having one who is looking out for themselves and not just jumping onto the "let's save the world, everybody!" bandwagon is a lot more interesting to me than the rest.
Having back story to justify a Character Flaw doesn't make it any less grating to read about. He's not particularly forgettable, I'll agree, but he's not exactly likeable or interesting either.
I don't believe that being a coward is a character flaw. As I said above, I find it more interesting than planeswalkers who join causes for literally no reason such as the ones we've been reading about since Lorwyn.
I don't beliece that being a coward is a character flaw. As I said above, I find it more interesting than planeswalkers who join causes for literally no reason such as the ones we've been reading about since Lorwyn.
I was talking about him being grating, not being a coward. His cowardice was a part of what made him so grating, but it was hardly the only thing. He was genuinely unpleasant to read.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
I agree that I would not want to read a story entirely from the TS Venser's point of view. I would hope his experiences from TS such as defeating the Weaver King and choosing to planeswalk away from Dominaria as opposed to return to his shack would mean that we will be dealing with a more mature Venser.
Filling a niche role is sometimes necessary. In this case, I don't think any of the characters in TS could be called "compelling," but having one who is looking out for themselves and not just jumping onto the "let's save the world, everybody!" bandwagon is a lot more interesting to me than the rest.
You've literally just described exactly what Venser did. He returned to Urborg and could have washed his hands of them. Lord knows they offered to take him home often enough and he NEVER took them up on it. But no, he wanted to impress Jhoira and be a hero and stuff.
You've literally just described exactly what Venser did. He returned to Urborg and could have washed his hands of them. Lord knows they offered to take him home often enough and he NEVER took them up on it. But no, he wanted to impress Jhoira and be a hero and stuff.
It's been a while since I read the book. I don't remember the part about him returning to Urborg. But even still, wanting to impressing Jhoira is still a more human and realistic reason than we've been getting lately.
Saying Venser is a more compelling character than Radha is like saying that belly-button lint is more compelling than the contents of my septic tank.
Quoted for posterity.
Also, generally speaking, given the right conditions, a septic tank could be more compelling. And those conditions have to spot-on exactly right.
OT: I don't know good of a character Venser was in the TSP arc but I'm sure that a majority of his flaws have the capability to be eligible for a ret-con with Quest for Karn.
Venser really was just a plot device in the story. He never did anything himself throughout the entire story. All he did was follow what other people told him... it or a truly boring character.
For a supporting character this is fine, but for a character who's going to become a main character it's a bad idea.
That's what strikes me about Venser, throughout the entire story, the only moments i really remember about him are moments where he does something for himself, and they don't really stand out.. he planeswalks away from a basalisk, saving his life. He kills the weaver king... saving his life. All i know from this is he likes being alive... great.
Venser really was just a plot device in the story. He never did anything himself throughout the entire story. All he did was follow what other people told him... it or a truly boring character.
For a supporting character this is fine, but for a character who's going to become a main character it's a bad idea.
That's what strikes me about Venser, throughout the entire story, the only moments i really remember about him are moments where he does something for himself, and they don't really stand out.. he planeswalks away from a basalisk, saving his life. He kills the weaver king... saving his life. All i know from this is he likes being alive... great.
Acting in ones own best interest is a generally realistic thing to do.
Acting in ones own best interest is a generally realistic thing to do.
Right, anyone would have done that which tells us nothing about him.
It's not like he decided to plunder the remains of Tolaria to find out a better power source for his devices, it's not like he he refused Teferi's offer and went off to rule Keld.
The only thing Venser did was stuff anyone would have done... so we don't know anything about him. You learn about people by seeing what choices they make, Venser made no real choices in the story, he just went along with everyone else. So we really got nothing from him.
RThe only thing Venser did was stuff anyone would have done... so we don't know anything about him. You learn about people by seeing what choices they make, Venser made no real choices in the story, he just went along with everyone else. So we really got nothing from him.
I dunno, but maybe that's the point. In a world filled with heroes beyond measure, maybe Venser is just our "normal guy, trying not to get killed". I highly doubt that Venser is going to be the same person he was in the Time Spiral books, and I wouldn't be surprised if the entire reason for placing him as a protagonist in Time Spiral is to expand his character.
Besides, living forever isn't hard. Just drink the slow-time water.
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I dunno, but maybe that's the point. In a world filled with heroes beyond measure, maybe Venser is just our "normal guy, trying not to get killed".
This is something that should get embraced more often.
I have seen enough characters not listening to their teacher and then committing that fatal mistake; I have seen enough of them tap into dark arts and be corrupted; I have seen plenty folk sacrifice something dear for the sake of their loved ones only to have an ironic fate unleash upon them.
One character thats just a guy who does the thing he has to do because otherwise ☺☺☺☺ goes raw is never unwelcomed in my book.
"Hey, Dominaria is gonna done blow up"
"Sucks ass, what do I do to stop it?"
And no stupid padding with character tension I can get at noon in your favorite soap opera channel.
Just throwing the bone here (ignoring the Venser subject for a while), but I'd really love if we have another throwback set, like Coldsnap.
Is it reasonable to think that Karn's reappearance might give us a hint of what he was doing in the past? And if it is, could it be possible that we're finally having a Thran-based set?
I'd love to have Karn finally back in new Mirrodin block, and have him explain what he was doing in the past, just so that we have a throwback single-set block around Thran age and Yawgmoth's saga.
I mean, it'd be the perfect excuse to finally print Yawgmoth, Rebec and friends cards.
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Just throwing the bone here (ignoring the Venser subject for a while), but I'd really love if we have another throwback set, like Coldsnap.
Is it reasonable to think that Karn's reappearance might give us a hint of what he was doing in the past? And if it is, could it be possible that we're finally having a Thran-based set?
Even if Karn did go back in time a second time (Which there's no real proof of), he wouldn't be able to go back before he was created. Not using the method he used the first time.
They don't really need to have the fourth sets tie into the storyline. If they wanted to do a Thran set, they could.
* Though the fact that they were grasping at straws for what do with the fourth set makes me think they abondoned the idea of doing the Thran.
@ skibo: I think tranquillo meant what Karn was doing after he sealed the rift.
@ tranquillo : I am pretty sure that Karn was pulled back to the present not too long after he started to 'walk away.
Off topic didn't the Thran take place before the colors of magic had come into being... I vaguely remember seeing that mentioned in the book.
Or perhaps they didn`t know how to see and manipulate the mana as wizards? It seemed like it wasn`t until people used the Cylex that they were really able to use "magic" through the land instead of through artifacts.
Mana was used through the land prior to the Sylex blast, it just depends where you look. If I recall, Jamuraa used magic very early on, and Corondor definitely used defined magical categories during the conquest of Geyadrone Dihada. It was especially on Terisiare where there was a lack of understanding of the five colors of mana.
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The Thran knew of magic, that's why they needed Yawgmoth in the firts place.
Magic only made the Phytisis worse, Zod even thought Yawgmoth somethings about magic, wich gave Yawgie the idea of making the serum that could cure powerstone Phytisis.
They knew of magic, but all mana was the same to them.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
The Thran knew of magic, that's why they needed Yawgmoth in the firts place.
Magic only made the Phytisis worse, Zod even thought Yawgmoth somethings about magic, wich gave Yawgie the idea of making the serum that could cure powerstone Phytisis.
They knew of magic, but all mana was the same to them.
And mana was best used for artifice instead of spells.
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I feel like the only time I spend in the storyline section is defending Venser. His cowardice had plenty of backstory to justify it. Also, it was meant as a humorous counterweight to Radha. Much as she had a reason for being such a bad-ass, Venser had a reason for being such a coward.
I mean, the guy was a hermit who scavenged among Phyrexian ruins in arguably the darkest, most tainted place on Dominaria. Not only is that going to eat away at a persons fiber, but they're not going to survive it by being reckless. Carefulness pushed to the extreme sometimes equals cowardice - this is such a case.
I could talk about Venser all day. He's far from forgettable, and I don't think we've had such a memorable character in all the blocks since.
Edit: Agree with Ramenth below, just because a character's trait is justified doesn't make it less irritating. After all, someone could provide dozens of reasons for justifying the psychology and behavior of Jar Jar Binks, but that doesn't make him any more likable. To most people, at least.
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Filling a niche role is sometimes necessary. In this case, I don't think any of the characters in TS could be called "compelling," but having one who is looking out for themselves and not just jumping onto the "let's save the world, everybody!" bandwagon is a lot more interesting to me than the rest.
I don't believe that being a coward is a character flaw. As I said above, I find it more interesting than planeswalkers who join causes for literally no reason such as the ones we've been reading about since Lorwyn.
I was talking about him being grating, not being a coward. His cowardice was a part of what made him so grating, but it was hardly the only thing. He was genuinely unpleasant to read.
You've literally just described exactly what Venser did. He returned to Urborg and could have washed his hands of them. Lord knows they offered to take him home often enough and he NEVER took them up on it. But no, he wanted to impress Jhoira and be a hero and stuff.
It's been a while since I read the book. I don't remember the part about him returning to Urborg. But even still, wanting to impressing Jhoira is still a more human and realistic reason than we've been getting lately.
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Quoted for posterity.
Also, generally speaking, given the right conditions, a septic tank could be more compelling. And those conditions have to spot-on exactly right.
OT: I don't know good of a character Venser was in the TSP arc but I'm sure that a majority of his flaws have the capability to be eligible for a ret-con with Quest for Karn.
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Phyrexians?
I hope so.
I'm hoping GIX.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
For a supporting character this is fine, but for a character who's going to become a main character it's a bad idea.
That's what strikes me about Venser, throughout the entire story, the only moments i really remember about him are moments where he does something for himself, and they don't really stand out.. he planeswalks away from a basalisk, saving his life. He kills the weaver king... saving his life. All i know from this is he likes being alive... great.
Acting in ones own best interest is a generally realistic thing to do.
Right, anyone would have done that which tells us nothing about him.
It's not like he decided to plunder the remains of Tolaria to find out a better power source for his devices, it's not like he he refused Teferi's offer and went off to rule Keld.
The only thing Venser did was stuff anyone would have done... so we don't know anything about him. You learn about people by seeing what choices they make, Venser made no real choices in the story, he just went along with everyone else. So we really got nothing from him.
I dunno, but maybe that's the point. In a world filled with heroes beyond measure, maybe Venser is just our "normal guy, trying not to get killed". I highly doubt that Venser is going to be the same person he was in the Time Spiral books, and I wouldn't be surprised if the entire reason for placing him as a protagonist in Time Spiral is to expand his character.
Besides, living forever isn't hard. Just drink the slow-time water.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
Yeah, that's pretty much the reason I don't have a hard time swallowing the fact he's still around.
Now anybody else... That'll be a different story.
This is something that should get embraced more often.
I have seen enough characters not listening to their teacher and then committing that fatal mistake; I have seen enough of them tap into dark arts and be corrupted; I have seen plenty folk sacrifice something dear for the sake of their loved ones only to have an ironic fate unleash upon them.
One character thats just a guy who does the thing he has to do because otherwise ☺☺☺☺ goes raw is never unwelcomed in my book.
"Hey, Dominaria is gonna done blow up"
"Sucks ass, what do I do to stop it?"
And no stupid padding with character tension I can get at noon in your favorite soap opera channel.
Is it reasonable to think that Karn's reappearance might give us a hint of what he was doing in the past? And if it is, could it be possible that we're finally having a Thran-based set?
I'd love to have Karn finally back in new Mirrodin block, and have him explain what he was doing in the past, just so that we have a throwback single-set block around Thran age and Yawgmoth's saga.
I mean, it'd be the perfect excuse to finally print Yawgmoth, Rebec and friends cards.
Even if Karn did go back in time a second time (Which there's no real proof of), he wouldn't be able to go back before he was created. Not using the method he used the first time.
They don't really need to have the fourth sets tie into the storyline. If they wanted to do a Thran set, they could.
* Though the fact that they were grasping at straws for what do with the fourth set makes me think they abondoned the idea of doing the Thran.
@ tranquillo : I am pretty sure that Karn was pulled back to the present not too long after he started to 'walk away.
Off topic didn't the Thran take place before the colors of magic had come into being... I vaguely remember seeing that mentioned in the book.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Magic only made the Phytisis worse, Zod even thought Yawgmoth somethings about magic, wich gave Yawgie the idea of making the serum that could cure powerstone Phytisis.
They knew of magic, but all mana was the same to them.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
And mana was best used for artifice instead of spells.