I'm not really sure how having a 'Hunt for Karn across the multiverse' would be meaningfully different from what we have now, of 'Wander aimlessly across the multiverse with no real plotline'. Either way we'll see a new plane every year with a few common characters and not much else.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
I thought TPF did it well. But then again, that was sort of half-romance-novel too. The Chandra/Gideon dynamic was pretty interesting in my opinion, compared to the relationship between, say, Jace and Liliana.
Well, a team up between two walkers isn't that bad.
Having 4 or more of them pull the "wonder twin powers activate" is completely different. I can see 2 walkers teaming up and bickering incessantly if they don't like each other, but agreeing on a common goal.
Meanwhile, I don't think creative could make a good GROUP dynamic out of the walkers. You'd either end up with the Tevesh Szat of the group or they al get along, which is even worse. Besides, it's been done to death.
Well since the novel is attached to the Scars of Mirrodin set, the majority of it has to take place of Mirrodin. Probably Venser investigating the plane for clues about Karn's location, while being attacked by Phyrexians and hostile Mirrans, probably meeting Koth and getting some assistance from him. I'd like to see him travel to the plane's core, and sifting through the remnants of Memnarch's realm for information.
So the explanation of why there are still creatures here: The souls that were sent back belonged to the older generations. The younger creatures had souls that were, at that point, more "attuned" or adjusted to the plane of Mirrodin than their original ones, so they remained on Mirrodin even when the soul traps were destroyed. I guess I can accept that. But it can't have just fallen along the lines of "old left, young stayed" if Bruenna, Lyese, etc. left the plane. They would certainly qualify as "the younger generation." So apparently their individual souls were less attuned to the plane than most of their own generation.
Also, there's a new location name, for the structure that was built up around the green lacuna: the Araneas Altar.
Edit: Actually, I think I'll just start a new thread for general Mirrodin storyline discussion, and leave this topic to just the block novel.
This seems like the best possible story. My favorites are always investigatory ones. Like Ravnica.
Mirrodin looked like it was going to be that, what with the hallow planet, the mystery around Memnarch, and a plot to capture Glissa, the hunt to assemble Kaldra... but... yeah that turned out to be more of an action book.
It is, but not copping out would mean we can't go back. They wanted to go back, so they retconned it.
The more interesting question is, if they had the story for Scars figured out, why wouldn't they edit the ending of Fifth dawn to be more ambigious?
My guess is they didn't have much of a guarantee that they ever would come back, so they didn't bother leaving it very open to a sequel. Because if they didn't do one, then the fans would be upset from wondering when we were ever going to get the sequel they hinted at, which would never come. This way, we still get upset because they retconned, but we still get more Mirrodin, so the sting is a bit less.
My guess is they didn't have much of a guarantee that they ever would come back, so they didn't bother leaving it very open to a sequel. Because if they didn't do one, then the fans would be upset from wondering when we were ever going to get the sequel they hinted at, which would never come. This way, we still get upset because they retconned, but we still get more Mirrodin, so the sting is a bit less.
Eh, they leave things ambiguous all the time... see every magic book. All they would have had to do was cut out Slobad telling glissa that he didn't find anyone.
True. Again, my guess is that no one told the editors to make sure it was ambiguous because they didn't know if the setting would be popular enough to be worth making a return to. They bet against it, and the bet didn't pay off.
I certainly don't like that there has to be a retcon, but what's done is done. And now we get more Mirrodin goodness, with a much better art team and hopefully better storyline direction (say what you will about recent storyline developments, there has been improvement since Mirrodin Block).
I'm for the retcon, but there's one thing that still bothers me. What happens when they do it again? Look at Alara for example. What happens when they decide that, you know what, the shards should not have merged. The plane is more well known for having five distinct and separate shards, so retcon. What about Ravnica? The plane is known for having ten guilds, which are now completely gone. But we need them back, so retcon it. Kamigawa is known for having spirits fighting physical beings, but there's no reason to now that they have a balanced O-Kagachi that is 50% spirit and 50% physical. But that's boring, so retcon it.
Again, I'm for retconning it, but retcons by their very nature are an admission of bad editing. If you don't want Spider-Man getting married, don't let Spider-Man get married.
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I am for the retcon (if they have to), but not the one that ignores clear facts, when they could have easily done one including them.
C'mon, there will be a new pact on Ravnica, and all will be fine again.
Kamigawa? Someone will take That Which Was Taken Again again.
Shards? This time Bolas will drain it of mana and it will split again.
oh, wait. Wizards won't include facts...so
Ravnica's guild never fell.
War on Kamigawa never ended.
There was no Conflux.
yeah, looks nice.
This is hugely exaggerating the situation. There's a big difference between retconning a storyline that happened seven years ago under a different storyline team and retconning stories that happened only a few years ago, especially ones that have happened since the brand overhaul.
I could be wrong. I honestly don't know what the exact makeup of the staff was at the time. But at the very least, there was a different person in charge of creative, wasn't there?
Next week: the return of an old nemesis—that isn'tNicol Bolas.
It better be Gix , or else ** shakes fists at Wizards **.
And I'm desperate to know what happened to Glissa, Slobad and Geth. They're probably dead but damn, I miss them.
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Quote from Caranthir »
Yawgmoth, the ruler of Phyrexia, Lord of the Wastes, Father of Machines, is DEAD. He's passed on. He is no more! He has ceased to be! He is expired and gone to meet his maker! He is a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! He kicked the bucket, He has shuffled off his (apparently)mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!
I'd like to second ... third ... seventeen thousand eight hundred forty-ninth Gix's return. Gix comes back, Xantcha and Ratepe come back, and Lynn Abbey writes The Quest for Karn. Can has?
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Tezz, you show a valid fear. Gix can be returned if WotC showed restraint. Point is, they probably can't and would start returning people all over the place, just like I already said with Venser. There would be some convenient plan as to why they weren't dead after all.
THOUGH!
If handled well, the resurrection of minor villains would be good for a laugh. Sort of a coalition of villains.
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[I was permabanned and all I got to show for it was .... well, nothing.]
You see, this post nicely illustrates why I DON'T want Gix to come back: Because once they resurrect one guy, many others will soon follow. We could end up with resurrected versions of Xantcha, Ratepe, Urza, Mishra, Yawgmoth etc. before the year was over.
Yes, but the three characters I mentioned were never confirmed as dead; in fact, it was heavily implied that they were just displaced in time. You could easily return them without resorting to comic book cliches of a revolving door in the afterlife.
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Gix and Xantcha would be nice to see again. But thats about it.
We need someone to say "we herald the Phyrexian horde. We want to compleat you all." We dont necessarily need a demigod behind them or the whole lore to be dredged back again.
Woah woah woah...hold it there. Nobody wants Urza or Yawgmoth resurrected. Gix is very different: He was never confirmed dead and he is perfect to lead Phyrexia in the absence of Yawggy.
Actually, I'm all against resurrections and characters that should be dead but somehow are alive (oh, who I'm kidding, I'm glad to see You again Venser), but Gix is a different deal.
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Quote from Caranthir »
Yawgmoth, the ruler of Phyrexia, Lord of the Wastes, Father of Machines, is DEAD. He's passed on. He is no more! He has ceased to be! He is expired and gone to meet his maker! He is a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! He kicked the bucket, He has shuffled off his (apparently)mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!
Hmm, he went into the portal, that's a fact...but are we assuming that he was destroyed ?, any official source confirms his demise ?
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Quote from Caranthir »
Yawgmoth, the ruler of Phyrexia, Lord of the Wastes, Father of Machines, is DEAD. He's passed on. He is no more! He has ceased to be! He is expired and gone to meet his maker! He is a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! He kicked the bucket, He has shuffled off his (apparently)mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!
as far as i know there are no offical that he is dead just a general assumption that he is.
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
And I'll keep telling you they all died there.
In the fireball generated by Urza's Eyes as soon as Xantcha and Ratepe broke Gix's influence on them. It's in the book. They were consumed by the blast of fire, not dropped into some rift.
"Being Consumed by a fireball" sounds pretty bad for Gix's health. Gix is dead afterall then.
Thanks, I shouldn't trust so much in the mtgsalvation wiki when it comes to magic's storyline.
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Quote from Caranthir »
Yawgmoth, the ruler of Phyrexia, Lord of the Wastes, Father of Machines, is DEAD. He's passed on. He is no more! He has ceased to be! He is expired and gone to meet his maker! He is a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! He kicked the bucket, He has shuffled off his (apparently)mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!
I'm still unconvinced. I think it's intentionally left open.
Urza last sees Xantcha and Ratepe in contrast to a bright light, then in the next instant the room is filled with fire. It's not conclusive as to whether or not she's dead.
Ratepe mentions Xantcha's face is "a glorious sight to carry into the darkness". Still inconclusive. There's an Eladamri chapter in Planeshift that ends the exact same way: going "into the darkness." But Eladamri pops up again twenty pages later. It's a common fantasy trope, really, "into the darkness" leaving the reader questioning if the author means that the character(s) is/are dead. It could still go either way.
Urza mentions that Ratepe grabbed Xantcha's hand before the fireball consumed them. But it's from Urza's perspective, and he has no idea whether or not the fireball actually consumed them, only that he saw them hold hands before being consumed. There are no bodies, and, well, again, fantasy trope.
Urza wishes them joy, "wherever they'd gone." Extremely open-ended. He could mean that he wished them joy in "whatever" afterlife "they'd gone" to. Or he could be wishing them joy because he thinks they're going to appear elsewhere (and elsewhen). To me, if they had died, Urza would've known that definitively. He's Urza. But it looks intentionally open-ended.
Rereading your synopsis, I still think it's very possible that Xantcha is alive, but I agree that it's much less likely that Gix is alive. I agree that the phrase about Gix being in the past is a romantic notion of Urza's, that he's in Urza's/Dominaria's past, and Urza needs to concentrate on his/Dominaria's future foe, the Phyrexian Invasion and Yawgmoth. The phrase "It was the last thing the demon did" is pretty conclusive in indicating he's dead, but the book still never explicitly states it, only heavily implies it.
There's a slim chance they'll bring Gix back, and there's a big chance that it won't make sense if they do (remember the Magic book motto: "**** cannon."). I'm not really advocating that he is alive, just saying that there is a possibility (and tiny one) that he could be brought back in the future.
TL;DR - He's ****ing Gix, dude. Do want.
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Well, a team up between two walkers isn't that bad.
Having 4 or more of them pull the "wonder twin powers activate" is completely different. I can see 2 walkers teaming up and bickering incessantly if they don't like each other, but agreeing on a common goal.
Meanwhile, I don't think creative could make a good GROUP dynamic out of the walkers. You'd either end up with the Tevesh Szat of the group or they al get along, which is even worse. Besides, it's been done to death.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
So the explanation of why there are still creatures here: The souls that were sent back belonged to the older generations. The younger creatures had souls that were, at that point, more "attuned" or adjusted to the plane of Mirrodin than their original ones, so they remained on Mirrodin even when the soul traps were destroyed. I guess I can accept that. But it can't have just fallen along the lines of "old left, young stayed" if Bruenna, Lyese, etc. left the plane. They would certainly qualify as "the younger generation." So apparently their individual souls were less attuned to the plane than most of their own generation.
Also, there's a new location name, for the structure that was built up around the green lacuna: the Araneas Altar.
Edit: Actually, I think I'll just start a new thread for general Mirrodin storyline discussion, and leave this topic to just the block novel.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Mirrodin looked like it was going to be that, what with the hallow planet, the mystery around Memnarch, and a plot to capture Glissa, the hunt to assemble Kaldra... but... yeah that turned out to be more of an action book.
It is, but not copping out would mean we can't go back. They wanted to go back, so they retconned it.
The more interesting question is, if they had the story for Scars figured out, why wouldn't they edit the ending of Fifth dawn to be more ambigious?
My guess is they didn't have much of a guarantee that they ever would come back, so they didn't bother leaving it very open to a sequel. Because if they didn't do one, then the fans would be upset from wondering when we were ever going to get the sequel they hinted at, which would never come. This way, we still get upset because they retconned, but we still get more Mirrodin, so the sting is a bit less.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Eh, they leave things ambiguous all the time... see every magic book. All they would have had to do was cut out Slobad telling glissa that he didn't find anyone.
I certainly don't like that there has to be a retcon, but what's done is done. And now we get more Mirrodin goodness, with a much better art team and hopefully better storyline direction (say what you will about recent storyline developments, there has been improvement since Mirrodin Block).
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Again, I'm for retconning it, but retcons by their very nature are an admission of bad editing. If you don't want Spider-Man getting married, don't let Spider-Man get married.
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This is hugely exaggerating the situation. There's a big difference between retconning a storyline that happened seven years ago under a different storyline team and retconning stories that happened only a few years ago, especially ones that have happened since the brand overhaul.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
It makes perfect sense to me and explains pretty perfectly how life still exists in Mirrodin. I like it.
Also, looks like a corrupted Karn won't be the main bad guy:
from http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/106
It better be Gix , or else ** shakes fists at Wizards **.
And I'm desperate to know what happened to Glissa, Slobad and Geth. They're probably dead but damn, I miss them.
Brady Dommermuth (our creative director) came to me with the idea of exploring a metal plane.
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THOUGH!
If handled well, the resurrection of minor villains would be good for a laugh. Sort of a coalition of villains.
Yes, but the three characters I mentioned were never confirmed as dead; in fact, it was heavily implied that they were just displaced in time. You could easily return them without resorting to comic book cliches of a revolving door in the afterlife.
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We need someone to say "we herald the Phyrexian horde. We want to compleat you all." We dont necessarily need a demigod behind them or the whole lore to be dredged back again.
Actually, I'm all against resurrections and characters that should be dead but somehow are alive (oh, who I'm kidding, I'm glad to see You again Venser), but Gix is a different deal.
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
"Being Consumed by a fireball" sounds pretty bad for Gix's health. Gix is dead afterall then.
Thanks, I shouldn't trust so much in the mtgsalvation wiki when it comes to magic's storyline.
Urza last sees Xantcha and Ratepe in contrast to a bright light, then in the next instant the room is filled with fire. It's not conclusive as to whether or not she's dead.
Ratepe mentions Xantcha's face is "a glorious sight to carry into the darkness". Still inconclusive. There's an Eladamri chapter in Planeshift that ends the exact same way: going "into the darkness." But Eladamri pops up again twenty pages later. It's a common fantasy trope, really, "into the darkness" leaving the reader questioning if the author means that the character(s) is/are dead. It could still go either way.
Urza mentions that Ratepe grabbed Xantcha's hand before the fireball consumed them. But it's from Urza's perspective, and he has no idea whether or not the fireball actually consumed them, only that he saw them hold hands before being consumed. There are no bodies, and, well, again, fantasy trope.
Urza wishes them joy, "wherever they'd gone." Extremely open-ended. He could mean that he wished them joy in "whatever" afterlife "they'd gone" to. Or he could be wishing them joy because he thinks they're going to appear elsewhere (and elsewhen). To me, if they had died, Urza would've known that definitively. He's Urza. But it looks intentionally open-ended.
Rereading your synopsis, I still think it's very possible that Xantcha is alive, but I agree that it's much less likely that Gix is alive. I agree that the phrase about Gix being in the past is a romantic notion of Urza's, that he's in Urza's/Dominaria's past, and Urza needs to concentrate on his/Dominaria's future foe, the Phyrexian Invasion and Yawgmoth. The phrase "It was the last thing the demon did" is pretty conclusive in indicating he's dead, but the book still never explicitly states it, only heavily implies it.
There's a slim chance they'll bring Gix back, and there's a big chance that it won't make sense if they do (remember the Magic book motto: "**** cannon."). I'm not really advocating that he is alive, just saying that there is a possibility (and tiny one) that he could be brought back in the future.
TL;DR - He's ****ing Gix, dude. Do want.
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Gix would likely survive that, and could have been freed when Karn fixed the Rift, thus releasing Gix.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath