As an artificial plane, there is no such thing as "native" life. As far as I know Karn didn't create them out of nothing, so he had to get them from somewhere.
Depends on how you define "life", if we're talking about artificial creations that have gained sentience, then yeah, Mirrodin has a lot of native life.
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I think it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Memnarch could have some how come back and positioned himself as a figurehead for Phyrexia. In that event he could seek to make Mirrodin as it was, races and all. Sort of a vengeance . . . . kind of thing . . . Maybe?
The souls were recycled time and again. Raksha was born on MIrrodin, he was returned to the plane his soul was taken from. That's what the soul traps did, they trapped souls.
At the end of Mirrodin it's said in no uncertain terms that the plane was empty. Glissa didn't say this, Karn didn't say this, the author said this. SO it's true.
That means that there was a finite population limited by the number of souls, which doesn't mesh with the Mirroden we saw where the races were growing in numbers over time.
My guess still holds, anyway. Mirroden ends with everyone being kicked off the plane back 'home'. Except, they've been living on Mirroden for quite a long time, and probably aren't overly welcome at home or happy to be there. So, chances are, they'll try to find a way back to mirroden. Enter the power of plothole, and they do.
It also explains not just what the Phyrexians are doing there, but the factions. You have the Phyrexians, and you have 'Mirroden Pure', who are likely traditionalists who want to go back to how Mirroden was before everyone was kicked off and then all these new people showed up.
It makes for a much more interesting story than just 'WEll guyz, there are still people on Mirroden. Also phyrexians are here now.' You get all sorts of social allegory and implication. ... which means I'm probably wrong, because wizards tends to stay as far away as they can from interesting meta.
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That means that there was a finite population limited by the number of souls, which doesn't mesh with the Mirroden we saw where the races were growing in numbers over time.
Mirrodin's races were constantly being destroyed by Levelers. Many flavor texts imply how obessed Memnarch is with keeping the ecosystem of Mirrodin perfect.
My guess still holds, anyway. Mirroden ends with everyone being kicked off the plane back 'home'. Except, they've been living on Mirroden for quite a long time, and probably aren't overly welcome at home or happy to be there. So, chances are, they'll try to find a way back to mirroden. Enter the power of plothole, and they do.
That doesn't jive with what we know about the end of Mirrodin. Raksha is the leader of the leonin on his home plane.
It also explains not just what the Phyrexians are doing there, but the factions. You have the Phyrexians, and you have 'Mirroden Pure', who are likely traditionalists who want to go back to how Mirroden was before everyone was kicked off and then all these new people showed up.
True, or you have those infected by phyrexian oil and those who aren't.
It makes for a much more interesting story than just 'WEll guyz, there are still people on Mirroden. Also phyrexians are here now.' You get all sorts of social allegory and implication. ... which means I'm probably wrong, because wizards tends to stay as far away as they can from interesting meta.
Where do people get "Phyrexians from Phyrexia are comming to Mirrodin?" Mirrodin was infected by Phyrexian oil that slowly transformed the plane and the people who lived on it. It was the largest factor in Mirrodin driving all the problems and leaving visual marks everywhere on the plane (from the plane's core to the metal enchancements growing out of the biological life).
Remember that most players wouldn't even notice the reconn. To them, Mirrodin was never depopulated. Only to those who know the story would notice the reconn. So it's not jarring for them to just pretend that there's life on Mirrodin still.
Was that the point of Mirrodin? I don't think Mirrodin really had a point. If anything i think it would be Slobad sacrificing his spark. But really the outcome of that sacrifice doesn't matter. If some life remained on Mirrodin, that doesn't take away what he did.
We also have some degree of support for reincarnation in flavor text. Key to this is Raksha Golden Cub.
If reincarnation is widely held as a belief, then it is entirely possible that some of the cultures were to a degree aware of the limited soul-pool. (though obliquely)
As for how welcome they were on their own plane, quite frankly, that doesn't even matter. They had their own cultures and relationships developed already. They would be more likely to found new homes rather than try and blend in with whatever populace were left from the abductions.
If I understood correctly the oil was the reason for the metallic stuff growing on the living beings of Mirrodin. If they have been send back as whole, wouldnt they spread the oil everywhere if that really is the case?
As far as we know, the oil didn't do anything else beyond drive Memnarch insane and give him ideas about being a walker. The whole metal to flesh and vice versa was due to the mycosynth infection, though where it came from, we have no idea.
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Are we sure that the souls that would've been send back could remember on anything anymore?
I mean, it was the soul that got transfered not their whole corporeal form, wasn't it?
So maybe they really just got born again on their planes of origins without any memory but maybe sometimes an odd feeling that something's not as it should be or similar.
It's possible some remember... but... what are they going to do about it? It's not like any of them have the power to get back there. Glissa was the only person with a spark on Mirrodin, so no one sent back to thier home plane had a chance to become a planeswalker.
Because if they knew stuff from Mirrodin on their planes of origin then Raksha, Golden Cup from your reference should basically know also that he was once the greatest Leonin leader (just to make a point. if he really is that guy but reborn is a different story)
The story of Fifth dawn ends with two secondary characters from the books (I know thier names, but don't want to look up the spelling), an elf and a blue aligned human going to Raksha. Though the two women have met Raksha on Mirrodin they both talk about meeting him for the first time. Which implies that they lost thier memories.
How Raksha retains his name on his homeplane... i don't know. I think that was an oversight by the author.
As far as we know, the oil didn't do anything else beyond drive Memnarch insane and give him ideas about being a walker. The whole metal to flesh and vice versa was due to the mycosynth infection, though where it came from, we have no idea.
I'm 90% certain that the Mycosynth was caused by the oil (That it was the physical manefestation of the oil). The oil's first job was to expand.
I would like to state, for the record, that the blinkmoths were used to make the serum that the vedalken liked to have sloshing around their heads all the time, and that memnarch liked to have on giant tanks on his back. I don't have page numbers or anything atm, I could go and find them if I need to but I do remember that was an alluded to reason for the lack of blinkmoths in the sky, they were harvested by memnarch and the vedalken.
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I would like to state, for the record, that the blinkmoths were used to make the serum that the vedalken liked to have sloshing around their heads all the time, and that memnarch liked to have on giant tanks on his back. I don't have page numbers or anything atm, I could go and find them if I need to but I do remember that was an alluded to reason for the lack of blinkmoths in the sky, they were harvested by memnarch and the vedalken.
It wasn't alluded too, it was flat out stated that the Veldaken had basically wiped out the blinkmoths.
It wasn't alluded too, it was flat out stated that the Veldaken had basically wiped out the blinkmoths.
I believe the last blinkmoths were destroyed by Memnarch at the end of the story. In addition, it was the serum that started to turn Memnarch's robot companion fleshy.
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As far as i can surmise (From a comment he made over on the Wizards boards), he's choosing to ignore all the hints and facts at the end of fifth dawn and have Mirrodin be populated still. There isn't even going to be a retcon.
So while it's true that Slobad and Karn heavily implied that there was no one left. Even though by the logic of the story, everyone was sent back. Even though the Author basically told us everyone was gone. Creative decided that there was still enough wiggle room to have everybody stay on Mirrodin instead.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On the look, yeah it all looks the same. But they might be showing up all the familar races because they don't want to spoil the phyrexian side of things. So while Mirrodin may appear to be rehashed, it might be completely different.
The good news, though, is that there are books that do have completely reliable continuity, and are wonderfully written by accomplished and groundbreaking authors, and don't require you to read additional poorly-written comic books and sophomoric articles to get the whole story, and don't have to be retconned because they have professional editors who prevent continuity errors from occurring in the first place, and aren't written for the sole purpose of making more money for a corporation beholden to a group of six to ten shareholders.
Skibo, could you link the post Brady made on the WotC boards? (I'm not familiar with the boards at all, so have no idea where to look.)
Perhaps we can still hold out that it will all make sense in the end...?
The look of the populants of Mirrodin look much more clean and, uh, shiny. I can't help but consider that something else is going on. It has a much different look to it.
Maybe with the Time Rifts, the Mirari managed to get altered, reshaped back into Memnarch, and this would be the creation coming back to haunt Karn in his closing of the rift (I have not read the Time Spiral trilogy, so please excuse my lack of direct quotation). From there, Memnarch could repopulate Mirrodin as he sees fit. This would give us one example of the past influencing the present (we saw alternate storylines in the cards in the Time Spiral block, but nothing in the story--the Jodah Question notwithstanding). I suppose this would also be the least offensive way to approach repopulating Mirrodin...
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Just Brady pointing out that no one specifically said Mirrodin was empty except for Slobad.
Perhaps we can still hold out that it will all make sense in the end...?
It does make sense. Slobad didn't see anyone by chance. Karn resurected everybody after thier soultraps were destroyed and so they somehow could stay on Mirrodin without them then. Some were sent back... somehow.
It's just that it's extremely cheap that the author tells us that Mirrodin's barren, and then they decide that it's not through minor loopholes.
The look of the populants of Mirrodin look much more clean and, uh, shiny. I can't help but consider that something else is going on. It has a much different look to it.
They could be playing up the "Mirrodin Pure" vs. "New Phyrexia" by having the Mirrodin side brighter and shinier. Though the picture of the angel is rather dull and dark.
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Depends on how you define "life", if we're talking about artificial creations that have gained sentience, then yeah, Mirrodin has a lot of native life.
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Reach out and torch someone . . .
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There's no real question on whether life is on Mirrodin. We have pictures (And a block without creatures would be pretty boring).
Sarcomite Myr's gimmick was already done in Esper block, so it might not be in Scars.
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That means that there was a finite population limited by the number of souls, which doesn't mesh with the Mirroden we saw where the races were growing in numbers over time.
My guess still holds, anyway. Mirroden ends with everyone being kicked off the plane back 'home'. Except, they've been living on Mirroden for quite a long time, and probably aren't overly welcome at home or happy to be there. So, chances are, they'll try to find a way back to mirroden. Enter the power of plothole, and they do.
It also explains not just what the Phyrexians are doing there, but the factions. You have the Phyrexians, and you have 'Mirroden Pure', who are likely traditionalists who want to go back to how Mirroden was before everyone was kicked off and then all these new people showed up.
It makes for a much more interesting story than just 'WEll guyz, there are still people on Mirroden. Also phyrexians are here now.' You get all sorts of social allegory and implication. ... which means I'm probably wrong, because wizards tends to stay as far away as they can from interesting meta.
Mirrodin's races were constantly being destroyed by Levelers. Many flavor texts imply how obessed Memnarch is with keeping the ecosystem of Mirrodin perfect.
That doesn't jive with what we know about the end of Mirrodin. Raksha is the leader of the leonin on his home plane.
True, or you have those infected by phyrexian oil and those who aren't.
Where do people get "Phyrexians from Phyrexia are comming to Mirrodin?" Mirrodin was infected by Phyrexian oil that slowly transformed the plane and the people who lived on it. It was the largest factor in Mirrodin driving all the problems and leaving visual marks everywhere on the plane (from the plane's core to the metal enchancements growing out of the biological life).
Remember that most players wouldn't even notice the reconn. To them, Mirrodin was never depopulated. Only to those who know the story would notice the reconn. So it's not jarring for them to just pretend that there's life on Mirrodin still.
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Was that the point of Mirrodin? I don't think Mirrodin really had a point. If anything i think it would be Slobad sacrificing his spark. But really the outcome of that sacrifice doesn't matter. If some life remained on Mirrodin, that doesn't take away what he did.
If reincarnation is widely held as a belief, then it is entirely possible that some of the cultures were to a degree aware of the limited soul-pool. (though obliquely)
As for how welcome they were on their own plane, quite frankly, that doesn't even matter. They had their own cultures and relationships developed already. They would be more likely to found new homes rather than try and blend in with whatever populace were left from the abductions.
As far as we know, the oil didn't do anything else beyond drive Memnarch insane and give him ideas about being a walker. The whole metal to flesh and vice versa was due to the mycosynth infection, though where it came from, we have no idea.
EDH:
Zo-Zu the Punisher
Phelddagrif
Rhys the Redeemed
Ashling the Pilgrim
Ruhan of the Fomori
Rafiq of the Many
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Aurelia, the Warleader
Animar, Soul of Elements
Borborygmos Enraged
Riku of Two Reflections
It's possible some remember... but... what are they going to do about it? It's not like any of them have the power to get back there. Glissa was the only person with a spark on Mirrodin, so no one sent back to thier home plane had a chance to become a planeswalker.
The story of Fifth dawn ends with two secondary characters from the books (I know thier names, but don't want to look up the spelling), an elf and a blue aligned human going to Raksha. Though the two women have met Raksha on Mirrodin they both talk about meeting him for the first time. Which implies that they lost thier memories.
How Raksha retains his name on his homeplane... i don't know. I think that was an oversight by the author.
I'm 90% certain that the Mycosynth was caused by the oil (That it was the physical manefestation of the oil). The oil's first job was to expand.
Wasn't the oil the physical manifestation of the oil?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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Indeed. We just never see it again. Instead we see large growths within the core, flesh turning to metal and metal to flesh. All sorts of things.
The everpresent fungus among us.
EDH
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Grand Arbiter Agustian IV
Arcum Dagsson
Jhoira of the Ghitu
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
Ghave, Guru of Spores
Zedruu the Greathearted
Rakka Mar
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Talrand, Sky Summoner
Heider, Rimewind Master
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Mairsil, the Pretender
Edric, Spymaster of Trest (snake tribal)
Jarad, Gogari Lich Lord
Dralnu, Lich Lord (lands, instants, and sorcerys)
It wasn't alluded too, it was flat out stated that the Veldaken had basically wiped out the blinkmoths.
I believe the last blinkmoths were destroyed by Memnarch at the end of the story. In addition, it was the serum that started to turn Memnarch's robot companion fleshy.
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The more I see of SoM, the more I'm beginning to hate it.
It feels and looks so "Rehashed".
Oh what is that I spot? Is that a Memnarch look-a-like I see?
Do I spot every race from the past Mirrodin set?
The words "God Dammit All!" feel to weak to express even what I feel atm of being robbed of my prideful knowledge I had as a Vorthos.
The set doesn't feel new at all. It feels so "Old but with a new look".
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't everyone but three people and the Mirari sent back to there home planes?
So while it's true that Slobad and Karn heavily implied that there was no one left. Even though by the logic of the story, everyone was sent back. Even though the Author basically told us everyone was gone. Creative decided that there was still enough wiggle room to have everybody stay on Mirrodin instead.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On the look, yeah it all looks the same. But they might be showing up all the familar races because they don't want to spoil the phyrexian side of things. So while Mirrodin may appear to be rehashed, it might be completely different.
Not to be cynical or anything.
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Perhaps we can still hold out that it will all make sense in the end...?
The look of the populants of Mirrodin look much more clean and, uh, shiny. I can't help but consider that something else is going on. It has a much different look to it.
Maybe with the Time Rifts, the Mirari managed to get altered, reshaped back into Memnarch, and this would be the creation coming back to haunt Karn in his closing of the rift (I have not read the Time Spiral trilogy, so please excuse my lack of direct quotation). From there, Memnarch could repopulate Mirrodin as he sees fit. This would give us one example of the past influencing the present (we saw alternate storylines in the cards in the Time Spiral block, but nothing in the story--the Jodah Question notwithstanding). I suppose this would also be the least offensive way to approach repopulating Mirrodin...
Sure, bottom of the page. Here.
Just Brady pointing out that no one specifically said Mirrodin was empty except for Slobad.
It does make sense. Slobad didn't see anyone by chance. Karn resurected everybody after thier soultraps were destroyed and so they somehow could stay on Mirrodin without them then. Some were sent back... somehow.
It's just that it's extremely cheap that the author tells us that Mirrodin's barren, and then they decide that it's not through minor loopholes.
They could be playing up the "Mirrodin Pure" vs. "New Phyrexia" by having the Mirrodin side brighter and shinier. Though the picture of the angel is rather dull and dark.