When did he die? Didn't the Scourge book say he was still alive after the invasion?
The meetings of Karona in the Scourge book were kind of retconned in Future Sight, explained to be nothing little more than mere illusions, with no factual impact on the current storyline. Neither Teferi nor Multani remember meeting her. In other words: J.R.King messed everything up with that stupid few paragraphs, and by Planar Chaos and Future Sight, the Creative Department finally officially put the end to the running discussion about Yawgmoth being dead or alive. He is no more, and that means that so is Serra, and the status of Fiers as planeswalker is doubted again - all things that were put in doubt by Scourge.
I doubt that Yawgmoth can ever truly die. For all intents and purposes, he IS Phyrexia, which has automatically rebuilt much of the damage dealt to it if I have read my spoilers correctly. The Phrexian nanorobot hivemind is still around, just without a guiding will. Phyrexia is just waiting for someone to manage to get into the 9th Spere.
I actually believe that the Phyrexia that Yawgmoth first discovered (with the dead dragon in the middle) was Phyrexia in the aftermath of some other failed war that has passed out of all memory. Or the creator transfered his spark and very existance into creating a plane which would reach the pinnacle of mechanized life.
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I doubt that Yawgmoth can ever truly die. For all intents and purposes, he IS Phyrexia, which has automatically rebuilt much of the damage dealt to it if I have read my spoilers correctly. The Phrexian nanorobot hivemind is still around, just without a guiding will. Phyrexia is just waiting for someone to manage to get into the 9th Spere.
man i would love to see phyrexia come back in the storyline somehow.
but from what i have read, and understand through debates, is that, yawgmoth is dead an gone without any hpe of coming back. sad really i liked that guy
As a god of death, I really don't see Yawgmoth dieing. And since we've seen nothing in the storyline that contradicts the Karona meetings while still making logical sense, I'll on the "Yawgy will be back" side of the fence.
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Yawg is not the "god of death". The Magic Multiverse doesn't have any divinities really.
Well, it has the world-souls like O-Kagachi and Gaea.
Yawgmoth, though, was never a true god. He was a mere mortal who, by mystical means, imbued a whole world with his soul. But never a god.
And he's dead, people. He's passed on! The Lord of Phyrexia is no more! He has ceased to be, he is expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! He's pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the artificial world! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his wannabe-immortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! It's an Ex-Yawgmoth.
Sorry, but I could not resist. Unlike Jaya Ballard, we have SEEN Yawgmoth killed, and this fact further confirmed by cards and novels. Just accept it...
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Yes, Yawgy as a thinking conscious entity is very much dead, Phryrexia as a semi-conscious artificial super lifeform however is still alive waiting for a new brain.
BTW-weird theory I just thought of. Maybe Phryrexia is an extremely stable artificial plane capable of existing for an indefinite or near indefinite span of time because of the total interconnectivity of the plane. It only gets near breaking point when it is overused by "the brain" and it stability is unbalanced.
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
I think that, even though this must be purely rhetorical, since Yawgmoth IS actually totally dead, when that business was going on, a bit of Yawgmoth's subconscious stayed back within Phyrexia, to maintain the planar machinery and to preserve the link he had with his mechanized 'home'. If he hadn't done this, I think that Phyrexia would have blocked his reentry the next time he tried to get into the Ninth Sphere, since he wasn't able to planeswalk inside of it, not actually being a planeswalker(although, if you dredged the Storyline forum well, I think you could find a goodly amount of people who think he was a planeswalker, or that he had a spark, but it hadn't manifested, or (insert your own stupid conspiracy theory here).
Thus, when Yawgmoth died in Dominaria, due to the Legacy Weapon blast, his soul died, but some of his essence was trapped within the machinery of Phyrexia, keeping it running for a master that will never return.
I have no problems with cursing. I always feel like the sort of people who buy that cliche are the same ones who think that every bully is secretly insecure. Life isn't as simple as our kindergarten teachers taught us.
I didn't think The Ineffable would this popular. But its kinda hard to argue "HE lives!!" With his huge corrupted corpse sitting there leaking an eon's worth of stored black mana. Besides with The Father of Machines gone, maybe a new meta-villain could be created?
But he said the whole point of him entering was that he was risking everything.
He could have just waited for atrition to wipe out dominaria, but there was no victory if he didnt risk everything.
So saying he left a back up plan, seems to demean his character.
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
If Yawgmoth turns out to be alive after all, I will personally hijack a load of weapons-grade plutonium, craft my own Legacy Weapon, and destroy WotC with a voilent outpouring of mana...and radiation.
I have no problems with cursing. I always feel like the sort of people who buy that cliche are the same ones who think that every bully is secretly insecure. Life isn't as simple as our kindergarten teachers taught us.
I like to think that Mishra is still alive after all these thousands of years of torture, and so delusional that he believes himself to be Yawgmoth. The Yawgmoth that Karona encountered on Phyrexia wasn't THE Yawgmoth, it was Mishra/Yawgmoth. Thats my little piece of fanon anyway.
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I think that, even though this must be purely rhetorical, since Yawgmoth IS actually totally dead, when that business was going on, a bit of Yawgmoth's subconscious stayed back within Phyrexia, to maintain the planar machinery and to preserve the link he had with his mechanized 'home'. If he hadn't done this, I think that Phyrexia would have blocked his reentry the next time he tried to get into the Ninth Sphere, since he wasn't able to planeswalk inside of it, not actually being a planeswalker(although, if you dredged the Storyline forum well, I think you could find a goodly amount of people who think he was a planeswalker, or that he had a spark, but it hadn't manifested, or (insert your own stupid conspiracy theory here).
Thus, when Yawgmoth died in Dominaria, due to the Legacy Weapon blast, his soul died, but some of his essence was trapped within the machinery of Phyrexia, keeping it running for a master that will never return.
Hear that, Yawgy fans? NEVER! NEVER, I SAY!!
Hmmmm...I like the sound of that. It's nearly the same thing as what Lord Windgrace did during Planar Chaos, infusing a part of himself into the land of Urborg to remain it's guardian. now true, we are not sure how he will defend his home, but we know he is somehow. Retrowalkers never did anything lightly when they were going to potentially die.
I like to think that Mishra is still alive after all these thousands of years of torture, and so delusional that he believes himself to be Yawgmoth. The Yawgmoth that Karona encountered on Phyrexia wasn't THE Yawgmoth, it was Mishra/Yawgmoth. Thats my little piece of fanon anyway.
This is a pretty *****in' sweet idea, I think. What a nice twist that would be!
Here's a question that I've been pondering for a little while: We all know that Phyrexia was a machine. It was a machine the size of a planet and it was, in Freyalise's words, the biggest machine in existence.
But was it sentient? Think how cool of a twist that would be. Remember that when Rebbec tried to take control of Phyrexia, the plane itself fought against her because it wanted Yawgmoth and only Yawgmoth in control. Was this a "program," kind of like a computer's virus blocker. Or could it be alive in the sense that Karn (pre-'walker) is alive or Bosh is alive.
And if it is alive, I'll take it as a pet. And name it Fluffy, the plane that only loves.
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Um...I doubt that Phyrexia is sentient, really. Now, alive, that's a different bit altogether. A tree can be alive, but it can't really be sentient(unless it's a magical tree...I'm so racist against Treefolk...). In the same vein(minus the self-mocking aside), I don't think a giant machine-plane is going to acquire sentience. Take Mirrodin, for example. It's a giant machine-plane, created by a giant machine-brain(I like rhymes...shut up!), yet even at its most corrupted, when it could be predicted that the mutation of the plane could affect it most, only Memnarch really shows sentience, beyond the already-sentient races translocated to Mirrodin.
I tnink that, if the present controller(we're talking hypothetically, here...I don't think there is, at this time, anyone within the 9th Sphere.) of Phyrexia chose, they could be absorbed by the plane and implanted, essentially, throughout it - making it sort of a sentient object...maybe? I don't know how much of their living qualities would be passed over to Phyrexia, in this situation, so I couldn't say. Maybe it would only absord, say, their innate ability to control mana, cast spells, and do appropriately awesome stuff(assuming they were a planeswalker), or their innate ability to be crappy & make people hate them(if they were a crapwalker), and that absorbed quality would be passed on to the plane itself(although I don't know what that would mean, per se...Phyrexia could planeswalk to other locations in the Multiverse, acting as the Death Star & zotting them all with giga-blasts of black mana[Corrupt for one Billion, Kamigawa! Suffer!!], and then George Lucas would sue WotC for copyright infringement, and MaRo would write at least two columns about his days in the sntertainment business and how that relates to the George Lucas lawsuit.).
As you can see from the giant parenthetical bit directly above, this would be horrible, so why don't we just leave Phyrexia in the dump with its Energizer Malevolence AAA batteries removed, and move on to better things? Unless you want Lucas to force WotC to make a tribal Ewoks block...
I have no problems with cursing. I always feel like the sort of people who buy that cliche are the same ones who think that every bully is secretly insecure. Life isn't as simple as our kindergarten teachers taught us.
Is that just a consequence of Planar Chaos mucking things up?
The meetings of Karona in the Scourge book were kind of retconned in Future Sight, explained to be nothing little more than mere illusions, with no factual impact on the current storyline. Neither Teferi nor Multani remember meeting her. In other words: J.R.King messed everything up with that stupid few paragraphs, and by Planar Chaos and Future Sight, the Creative Department finally officially put the end to the running discussion about Yawgmoth being dead or alive. He is no more, and that means that so is Serra, and the status of Fiers as planeswalker is doubted again - all things that were put in doubt by Scourge.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I actually believe that the Phyrexia that Yawgmoth first discovered (with the dead dragon in the middle) was Phyrexia in the aftermath of some other failed war that has passed out of all memory. Or the creator transfered his spark and very existance into creating a plane which would reach the pinnacle of mechanized life.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Meh, Yawgmoth won't technically be dead until we raze every swamp in the multiverse, 'cause by Invasion he became black mana itself.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
man i would love to see phyrexia come back in the storyline somehow.
but from what i have read, and understand through debates, is that, yawgmoth is dead an gone without any hpe of coming back. sad really i liked that guy
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Yawg being back would not be a good thing.
Butcher of Words.
Made by Spiderboy4
Well, it has the world-souls like O-Kagachi and Gaea.
Yawgmoth, though, was never a true god. He was a mere mortal who, by mystical means, imbued a whole world with his soul. But never a god.
And he's dead, people. He's passed on! The Lord of Phyrexia is no more! He has ceased to be, he is expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! He's pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the artificial world! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his wannabe-immortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! It's an Ex-Yawgmoth.
Sorry, but I could not resist. Unlike Jaya Ballard, we have SEEN Yawgmoth killed, and this fact further confirmed by cards and novels. Just accept it...
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
BTW-weird theory I just thought of. Maybe Phryrexia is an extremely stable artificial plane capable of existing for an indefinite or near indefinite span of time because of the total interconnectivity of the plane. It only gets near breaking point when it is overused by "the brain" and it stability is unbalanced.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
But only for non-black mages.
I would really enjoy seeing Yawgmoth coming back. It's sad he left so soon.
Wise words:
Thus, when Yawgmoth died in Dominaria, due to the Legacy Weapon blast, his soul died, but some of his essence was trapped within the machinery of Phyrexia, keeping it running for a master that will never return.
Hear that, Yawgy fans? NEVER! NEVER, I SAY!!
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
He could have just waited for atrition to wipe out dominaria, but there was no victory if he didnt risk everything.
So saying he left a back up plan, seems to demean his character.
There is an imposter among us...
Hmmmm...I like the sound of that. It's nearly the same thing as what Lord Windgrace did during Planar Chaos, infusing a part of himself into the land of Urborg to remain it's guardian. now true, we are not sure how he will defend his home, but we know he is somehow. Retrowalkers never did anything lightly when they were going to potentially die.
This is a pretty *****in' sweet idea, I think. What a nice twist that would be!
Here's a question that I've been pondering for a little while: We all know that Phyrexia was a machine. It was a machine the size of a planet and it was, in Freyalise's words, the biggest machine in existence.
But was it sentient? Think how cool of a twist that would be. Remember that when Rebbec tried to take control of Phyrexia, the plane itself fought against her because it wanted Yawgmoth and only Yawgmoth in control. Was this a "program," kind of like a computer's virus blocker. Or could it be alive in the sense that Karn (pre-'walker) is alive or Bosh is alive.
And if it is alive, I'll take it as a pet. And name it Fluffy, the plane that only loves.
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Um...I doubt that Phyrexia is sentient, really. Now, alive, that's a different bit altogether. A tree can be alive, but it can't really be sentient(unless it's a magical tree...I'm so racist against Treefolk...). In the same vein(minus the self-mocking aside), I don't think a giant machine-plane is going to acquire sentience. Take Mirrodin, for example. It's a giant machine-plane, created by a giant machine-brain(I like rhymes...shut up!), yet even at its most corrupted, when it could be predicted that the mutation of the plane could affect it most, only Memnarch really shows sentience, beyond the already-sentient races translocated to Mirrodin.
I tnink that, if the present controller(we're talking hypothetically, here...I don't think there is, at this time, anyone within the 9th Sphere.) of Phyrexia chose, they could be absorbed by the plane and implanted, essentially, throughout it - making it sort of a sentient object...maybe? I don't know how much of their living qualities would be passed over to Phyrexia, in this situation, so I couldn't say. Maybe it would only absord, say, their innate ability to control mana, cast spells, and do appropriately awesome stuff(assuming they were a planeswalker), or their innate ability to be crappy & make people hate them(if they were a crapwalker), and that absorbed quality would be passed on to the plane itself(although I don't know what that would mean, per se...Phyrexia could planeswalk to other locations in the Multiverse, acting as the Death Star & zotting them all with giga-blasts of black mana[Corrupt for one Billion, Kamigawa! Suffer!!], and then George Lucas would sue WotC for copyright infringement, and MaRo would write at least two columns about his days in the sntertainment business and how that relates to the George Lucas lawsuit.).
As you can see from the giant parenthetical bit directly above, this would be horrible, so why don't we just leave Phyrexia in the dump with its Energizer Malevolence AAA batteries removed, and move on to better things? Unless you want Lucas to force WotC to make a tribal Ewoks block...