The game should see the Volrath's Shapeshifter enter as a copy of the new Emrakul.
However, you won't get the cast trigger from the new Emrakul, for two reasons. The Shapeshifter's ability only works on the battlefield, not anywhere else, so it will only be Emrakul once it is on the battlfield. And second you didn't cast Emrakul, you cast the Shapeshifter.
This is a different scenario. Myjoin doesn't have a cast ability, but rather a replacement effect on ETB. When the shapeshifter goes to ETB the game replaces it with the Myojin copy. It then checks if any other abilities should now apply and because the Myojin only cares that it was cast from hand (not that it was cast as a Myojin) you get the counter.
You won't get the cast trigger. Volrath's Shapeshifter's ability only works while it's on the battlefield, and Emrakul, the Promised End triggers when it is cast (so when it is put onto the stack).
The Myojin interaction works the way it does because while it checks to make sure it's being cast, the ability is checking when it's about to enter the battlefield, which means that Shapeshifter's ability will apply while it's trying to figure out how it will enter.
Myojin of the Seeing Winds does not have a cast trigger. It has a 'enters the battlefield' replacement effect, that checks if the card was cast from your hand. In this instance, it does not care what it was when the card was cast, only that it was cast.
Myojin of the Seeing Winds does not have a cast trigger. It has a 'enters the battlefield' replacement effect, that checks if the card was cast from your hand. In this instance, it does not care what it was when the card was cast, only that it was cast.
The current wording of the Myojin card states "it if you cast it from your hand". So why did you say it does not have a cast trigger?
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Trolling Magic since 2000.
I play Standard, EDH, and a very tiny bit of Modern.
Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as "[Trigger condition], [effect]," and begin with the word "when", "whenever," or "at". They can also be expressed as "[When/Whenever/At] [trigger event], [effect].
The Myoin does not have a triggered ability of any kind. What it does have is a self-replacement effect that modifies how it enters the battlefield, paired with an intervening 'If' clause, to determine if the card was cast from your hand or not.
I will edit in a few minutes with rules quotes for replacement effects & intervening if clauses.
Edit
Quote from Comprehensive Rules 611. Continuous Effects »
611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period.
611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don't wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
Quote from Comprehensive Rules 614. Replacement Effects »
614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. Like prevention effects (see rule 615), replacement effects apply continuously as events happen-they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event with a different event. They act like "shields" around whatever they're affecting.
614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield (See rules 614.1c-d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent's characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.
Maybe someone else can help out with the last part - Myojin of Seeing Winds (& the entire Myojin cycle) very clearly have an intervening 'if' clause on their 'enters the battlefield' replacements, but the only reference I can find in the CR for an intervening 'if' applies to triggered abilities, not activated abilities, replacement effects, or spell effects.
This card is fake. Mark Rosewater meant that Nahiri was summoning Marit Lage. HE SHOULD HAVE SAID IT WAS MARIT LAGE! MARIT! LAGE! *sobs*
MY TEARS SHALL ENGULF THE SHORE!
. . .
*sigh*
Begrudgingly moving along, the story so far looks good, and I am making plans to run this card in one of my decks. Somehow I find "protection from instants" to be WAY more soul crushing in my meta than "protection from colored spells". Sad to see that even with all of SOI's terrific burn, standard red is useless against this card (unless you have 14 mana lying around for Burn From Within).
Myojin of the Seeing Winds does not have a cast trigger. It has a 'enters the battlefield' replacement effect, that checks if the card was cast from your hand. In this instance, it does not care what it was when the card was cast, only that it was cast.
The current wording of the Myojin card states "it if you cast it from your hand". So why did you say it does not have a cast trigger?
The Myojin do not have 'cast triggers', they have replacement effects that modify how they enter the battlefield, with the condition that something about the past of the object entering is true (it having been cast). It works with Shapeshifter because Shapeshifter was cast, even if it wasn't a Myojin at the time; the game asks, as the enter-the-battlefield replacement effect is applied, whether 'this object' was cast, and it was. Emrakul's triggered abiility triggers at the time you take the action of casting it, because Emrakul has the ability at the time. Shapeshifter doesn't have the ability at the time you cast it, so it can't trigger.
Private Mod Note
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
The myojin trigger is an enters the battlefield trigger, as identified by the words "Myojin... enters the battlefield with" so it triggers when the card actually enters the battlefield. This trigger comes with a condition, "if you cast it from your hand", so the trigger only happens if the condition is met. The part about being cast from hand is a condition of the trigger not the trigger itself.
Cast triggers happen when the card is cast and have the text "when ... is cast". These trigger happen when you complete casting the spell, and they go on the stack above the spell that caused them, and so resolve first. The shapeshifter does not have the "on cast" ability until it is on the battlefield, so when you cast it it has no ability to trigger. When it enters the battlefield it is too late for the on cast ability to trigger, because the trigger point has passed.
The myojin trigger is an enters the battlefield trigger, as identified by the words "Myojin... enters the battlefield with" so it triggers when the card actually enters the battlefield.
This is incorrect. A triggered ability starts with the words "when", "whenever", or "at". Myojin's ability is a replacement effect, which alters the way in which the card enters the battlefield, and which looks back in time to see where the card was cast from. While the timing is roughly similar to an ETB triggered ability, it functions in a fundamentally different way.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
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I play Standard, EDH, and a very tiny bit of Modern.
My youtube channel, I upload gaming related videos and other videos.
However, you won't get the cast trigger from the new Emrakul, for two reasons. The Shapeshifter's ability only works on the battlefield, not anywhere else, so it will only be Emrakul once it is on the battlfield. And second you didn't cast Emrakul, you cast the Shapeshifter.
Hope that clears things up for you.
Here's a link to a thread for reference:
I play Standard, EDH, and a very tiny bit of Modern.
My youtube channel, I upload gaming related videos and other videos.
myojin doesn't have a cast trigger but a enter the battlefield one
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
This is a different scenario. Myjoin doesn't have a cast ability, but rather a replacement effect on ETB. When the shapeshifter goes to ETB the game replaces it with the Myojin copy. It then checks if any other abilities should now apply and because the Myojin only cares that it was cast from hand (not that it was cast as a Myojin) you get the counter.
The Myojin interaction works the way it does because while it checks to make sure it's being cast, the ability is checking when it's about to enter the battlefield, which means that Shapeshifter's ability will apply while it's trying to figure out how it will enter.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
The current wording of the Myojin card states "it if you cast it from your hand". So why did you say it does not have a cast trigger?
I play Standard, EDH, and a very tiny bit of Modern.
My youtube channel, I upload gaming related videos and other videos.
The Myoin does not have a triggered ability of any kind. What it does have is a self-replacement effect that modifies how it enters the battlefield, paired with an intervening 'If' clause, to determine if the card was cast from your hand or not.
I will edit in a few minutes with rules quotes for replacement effects & intervening if clauses.
Edit
Maybe someone else can help out with the last part - Myojin of Seeing Winds (& the entire Myojin cycle) very clearly have an intervening 'if' clause on their 'enters the battlefield' replacements, but the only reference I can find in the CR for an intervening 'if' applies to triggered abilities, not activated abilities, replacement effects, or spell effects.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
MY TEARS SHALL ENGULF THE SHORE!
. . .
*sigh*
Begrudgingly moving along, the story so far looks good, and I am making plans to run this card in one of my decks. Somehow I find "protection from instants" to be WAY more soul crushing in my meta than "protection from colored spells". Sad to see that even with all of SOI's terrific burn, standard red is useless against this card (unless you have 14 mana lying around for Burn From Within).
Cast triggers happen when the card is cast and have the text "when ... is cast". These trigger happen when you complete casting the spell, and they go on the stack above the spell that caused them, and so resolve first. The shapeshifter does not have the "on cast" ability until it is on the battlefield, so when you cast it it has no ability to trigger. When it enters the battlefield it is too late for the on cast ability to trigger, because the trigger point has passed.
This is incorrect. A triggered ability starts with the words "when", "whenever", or "at". Myojin's ability is a replacement effect, which alters the way in which the card enters the battlefield, and which looks back in time to see where the card was cast from. While the timing is roughly similar to an ETB triggered ability, it functions in a fundamentally different way.