Colorless mana is a type of mana distinct from the other five colored types of mana.
- Colorless mana has no color. If an effect instructs a player to choose a color, they can't choose colorless.
- In effects that care about colorless mana, such as in mana abilities seen on cards like Crumbling Vestige, it is denoted as C. (All instances of 1, 2, and so on that have appeared on cards have been changed to the appropriate number of C symbols. However, the concept is still the same.)
- Costs that require colorless mana to be paid are denoted as C. This can be seen on cards such as Kozilek, the Great Distortion. No other type of mana can be spent to pay for these costs. Generic costs can still be paid with one mana of any type. So, Kozilek, the Great Distortion can be cast by paying two colorless mana and eight other mana.
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How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
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Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Mana Symbols can be used in two different ways: to represent mana itself, produced by some effect; and to represent costs that can be paid with mana.
* There are five colors of mana: white, blue, black, red and green.
** They are represented by the mana symbols WUBRG.
* There are six types of mana: white, blue, black, red, green and colorless. Those six types of mana have been part of the game since the start.
** The colorless mana type is currently represented by the mana symbol C, however cards from before the Oath of the Gatewatch expansion used either the generic mana symbols (Ur-Golem's Eye) or just used the phrase, "colorless mana" (Sisay's Ring)
** As the name implies, colorless mana is mana that has no color. Just that.
* There are many different kinds of mana symbols that may show up in costs, representing the different ways you can pay a mana cost. The mana symbols WUBRGC on a cost need to be paid by one mana of the respective type. The generic mana symbols 123Xetc can be paid with mana of any type (i.e., colored mana or colorless mana).
** The colored mana costs and the generic mana cost also have been part of the game from the start. The colorless mana cost was first used in the Oath of the Gatewatch expansion, explaining the need to introduce a new symbol.
* Other mana cost symbols include hydrid mana ( , , ) that give you two options on how to pay it (rather than the six options to pay a generic cost), and S that can be paid with any type of mana as long as the mana source's had the supertype Snow (Tresserhorn Sinks). Such symbols never show up in mana-producing effects, they just represent special costs.
As the name implies, colorless mana is mana that has no color. Just that.
If that was true then the old unchanged versions of all those artifacts that happened to produce colorless mana would produce mana good enough to pay costs denoted by this new mana symbol that we see in OGW now. IN WHICH CASE IT WOULD BE POINTLESS TO MAKE A MASS EDITING/ORACLING/ERRATAING OF MTG CARDS !
I believe the point with caltrop/road-spike mana should be this; That the Eldrazi does not accept/have it in them to have colored mana be consumed in costs regarding their..........kind.
Then why change anything at all regarding the PRODUCING(add to mana pool) of colorless mana ?
As the name implies, colorless mana is mana that has no color. Just that.
If that was true then the old unchanged versions of all those artifacts that happened to produce generic mana would produce mana good enough to pay costs denoted by this new mana symbol that we see in OGW now. IN WHICH CASE IT WOULD BE POINTLESS TO MAKE A MASS EDITING/ORACLING/ERRATAING OF MTG CARDS !
There isn't an artifact in existence that ever produced generic mana.
The 1 symbol used to mean two different things depending on where it was. If was in a cost, it meant generic mana cost. If it was in a producer it was colorless mana. Now 1 means generic mana cost and C means colorless mana.
I believe the point with caltrop/road-spike mana should be this; That the Eldrazi does not accept/have it in them to have colored mana be consumed in costs regarding their..........kind.
Then why change anything at all regarding the PRODUCING(add to mana pool) of colorless mana ?
They didn't change anything at all regarding the producing of colorless mana.
They didn't change anything at all regarding the producing of colorless mana.
Yes they did, they changed the visual symbol, and that without needing to do it.
There was a reason: The symbol was being used for two different, and indeed effectively opposite, things in the game. They massively bungled the change but they had found that they needed to make it because of occasional confusion it caused in new players (and of course it allowed for a bit of new design space).
As others have noted, the visual symbol change is purely cosmetic. Nothing is different about how these cards work.
Would it have been possible to implement the C symbol in costs only and keep using the generic symbols for mana production? Sure, that could have worked. But the version that has been implemented makes a much clearer distinction between specifically colorless mana and generic costs.
You seem to be very angry about this, and I'm not sure why.
As the name implies, colorless mana is mana that has no color. Just that.
If that was true then the old unchanged versions of all those artifacts that happened to produce colorless mana would produce mana good enough to pay costs denoted by this new mana symbol that we see in OGW now. IN WHICH CASE IT WOULD BE POINTLESS TO MAKE A MASS EDITING/ORACLING/ERRATAING OF MTG CARDS !
Yes, it wasn't NEEDED in the sense that it would work without the errata.
It's just more consistent, simpler and easier to understand with the new symbol. And those values are ranked higher than "making as little change as possible" by the game's designers.
They didn't change anything at all regarding the producing of colorless mana.
Yes they did, they changed the visual symbol, and that without needing to do it.
Given that Kozilek's mana cost is 8CC.
Without C existing, explain how you'd represent that mana cost. 811? That's less confusing?
I would have Kozilek require two eldrazi mana to cast, which means a functional difference to how things work today. In next block we might not see eldrazi mana in any costs (and not see eldrazi creatures/things at all), but STILL see one or two artifacts/things that can produce eldrazi mana that can be used to pay generic costs (just like mountains and plains can do).
They didn't change anything at all regarding the producing of colorless mana.
Yes they did, they changed the visual symbol, and that without needing to do it.
Given that Kozilek's mana cost is 8CC.
Without C existing, explain how you'd represent that mana cost. 811? That's less confusing?
I would have Kozilek require two eldrazi mana to cast, which means a functional difference to how things work today. In next block we might not see eldrazi mana in any costs (and not see eldrazi creatures/things at all), but STILL see one or two artifacts/things that can produce eldrazi mana that can be used to pay generic costs (just like mountains and plains can do).
Thats how I would do it.
How is that a functional difference? It's literally how colorless mana works.
If your mindset is that C is Eldrazi mana and not the colorless mana it is, you are going to have a hard time. C is just colorless, and the symbol is a cosmetic change to give a better visual than the number symbols previously used. Now you will know if a card has a pure generic cost paid with any type of mana or specifically requires colorless mana.
In next block or two (which probably dont have eldrazi things/creatures) I am gonna roll on the floor laughing when they announce that they take back the errata to have artifacts and stuff produce 1/2/3/etc and not the caltrop(read ogw <>) mana anymore.
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WArning issued for spam, joint with post #17 above.
Wizards continuously tries to make cards easier to read and understand. Giving a colorless a symbol of its own achieves this. They also were able to give Kozilek's brood a unique theme without making it too complicated which is cool.
In next block or two (which probably dont have eldrazi things/creatures) I am gonna roll on the floor laughing when they announce that they take back the errata to have artifacts and stuff produce 1/2/3/etc and not the caltrop(read ogw <>) mana anymore.
They were never planning to be using <> as a cost very often. They just introduced such costs to make the change more apparent and show what it could do.
The introduction of the C symbol for colorless mana as distinct from the X symbol for a generic cost allows for new designs where C can be specifically required for costs. This wasn't possible under the previous templating conventions, as there would have been no clear way to distinguish colorless from generic. Rolling back the change would close off a largely unexplored area of design space, which doesn't make sense to do.
In next block or two (which probably dont have eldrazi things/creatures) I am gonna roll on the floor laughing when they announce that they take back the errata to have artifacts and stuff produce 1/2/3/etc and not the caltrop(read ogw <>) mana anymore.
Why would they intentionally make things more confusing?
Especially since C isn't inherently linked to Eldrazi at all? And they've printed lands outside the set that produce that mana?
Given that Kozilek's mana cost is 8CC.
Without C existing, explain how you'd represent that mana cost. 811? That's less confusing?
Well, in principle Kozilek could have been printed something like this:
Kozilek, the Great Distortion 10
Legendary Creature -- Eldrazi
At least 2 of the mana spent to cast Kozilek, the Great Distortion must be colorless.
When you cast Kozilek, the Great Distortion, if you have fewer than seven cards in hand, draw cards equal to the difference.
Menace
Discard a card with converted mana cost X: Counter target spell with converted mana cost X.
12/12
Due to this thread going wildly off topic for Rulings, this thread has been locked. In the future, please refrain from such general discussions about game mechanics. Helping the OP to understand colourless mana is fine, but discussing the nature of colourless mana as being "Eldrazi mana" is a bit off-topic for this forum.
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- Colorless mana has no color. If an effect instructs a player to choose a color, they can't choose colorless.
- In effects that care about colorless mana, such as in mana abilities seen on cards like Crumbling Vestige, it is denoted as C. (All instances of 1, 2, and so on that have appeared on cards have been changed to the appropriate number of C symbols. However, the concept is still the same.)
- Costs that require colorless mana to be paid are denoted as C. This can be seen on cards such as Kozilek, the Great Distortion. No other type of mana can be spent to pay for these costs. Generic costs can still be paid with one mana of any type. So, Kozilek, the Great Distortion can be cast by paying two colorless mana and eight other mana.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
* There are five colors of mana: white, blue, black, red and green.
** They are represented by the mana symbols WUBRG.
* There are six types of mana: white, blue, black, red, green and colorless. Those six types of mana have been part of the game since the start.
** The colorless mana type is currently represented by the mana symbol C, however cards from before the Oath of the Gatewatch expansion used either the generic mana symbols (Ur-Golem's Eye) or just used the phrase, "colorless mana" (Sisay's Ring)
** As the name implies, colorless mana is mana that has no color. Just that.
* There are many different kinds of mana symbols that may show up in costs, representing the different ways you can pay a mana cost. The mana symbols WUBRGC on a cost need to be paid by one mana of the respective type. The generic mana symbols 123Xetc can be paid with mana of any type (i.e., colored mana or colorless mana).
** The colored mana costs and the generic mana cost also have been part of the game from the start. The colorless mana cost was first used in the Oath of the Gatewatch expansion, explaining the need to introduce a new symbol.
* Other mana cost symbols include hydrid mana ( , , ) that give you two options on how to pay it (rather than the six options to pay a generic cost), and S that can be paid with any type of mana as long as the mana source's had the supertype Snow (Tresserhorn Sinks). Such symbols never show up in mana-producing effects, they just represent special costs.
If that was true then the old unchanged versions of all those artifacts that happened to produce colorless mana would produce mana good enough to pay costs denoted by this new mana symbol that we see in OGW now. IN WHICH CASE IT WOULD BE POINTLESS TO MAKE A MASS EDITING/ORACLING/ERRATAING OF MTG CARDS !
I believe the point with caltrop/road-spike mana should be this; That the Eldrazi does not accept/have it in them to have colored mana be consumed in costs regarding their..........kind.
Then why change anything at all regarding the PRODUCING(add to mana pool) of colorless mana ?
There isn't an artifact in existence that ever produced generic mana.
The 1 symbol used to mean two different things depending on where it was. If was in a cost, it meant generic mana cost. If it was in a producer it was colorless mana. Now 1 means generic mana cost and C means colorless mana.
They didn't change anything at all regarding the producing of colorless mana.
Basalt Monolith's mana ability is errataed to "Tap: Add CCC to your mana pool" along with the rest of the colorless mana producers
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
There was a reason: The symbol was being used for two different, and indeed effectively opposite, things in the game. They massively bungled the change but they had found that they needed to make it because of occasional confusion it caused in new players (and of course it allowed for a bit of new design space).
Would it have been possible to implement the C symbol in costs only and keep using the generic symbols for mana production? Sure, that could have worked. But the version that has been implemented makes a much clearer distinction between specifically colorless mana and generic costs.
You seem to be very angry about this, and I'm not sure why.
Yes, it wasn't NEEDED in the sense that it would work without the errata.
It's just more consistent, simpler and easier to understand with the new symbol. And those values are ranked higher than "making as little change as possible" by the game's designers.
Given that Kozilek's mana cost is 8CC.
Without C existing, explain how you'd represent that mana cost. 811? That's less confusing?
Thats how I would do it.
Joint warning with post #20, see below.
-MadMage
How is that a functional difference? It's literally how colorless mana works.
They were never planning to be using <> as a cost very often. They just introduced such costs to make the change more apparent and show what it could do.
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Why would they intentionally make things more confusing?
Especially since C isn't inherently linked to Eldrazi at all? And they've printed lands outside the set that produce that mana?
Legendary Creature -- Eldrazi
At least 2 of the mana spent to cast Kozilek, the Great Distortion must be colorless.
When you cast Kozilek, the Great Distortion, if you have fewer than seven cards in hand, draw cards equal to the difference.
Menace
Discard a card with converted mana cost X: Counter target spell with converted mana cost X.
12/12
But it's pretty awkward, and it would probably force Kozilek's Pathfinder, Blinding Drone, Gravity Negator, Kozilek's Shrieker, Maw of Kozilek, Slaughter Drone, and Stalking Drone to being an uncommon for being too complicated for NWO. Cultivator Drone would be pretty much impossible to print with the exact same functionality without the new symbol. And that's just the commons.
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