I have Cavern on board, naming, say, let's call it "Atog". I then play Vesuva, naming Cavern as my copy choice. What happens?
1) I now have two Caverns that can play uncounterable Atogs;
2) The copied Cavern asks me to choose a creature type (let's call it "Efreet"), working as intended;
3) The copied Cavern let's me choose "Efreet", but does not function as intended;
4) I get the equivalent of a nonbasic Wastes.
You get to choose a creature type for the Vesuva/Cavern of Souls, and if you chose "Efreet" it will produce colored mana that can be used to cast Efreet creature spells that can't be countered. So, option 2.
I have Cavern on board, naming, say, let's call it "Atog". I then play Vesuva, naming Cavern as my copy choice. What happens?
1) I now have two Caverns that can play uncounterable Atogs;
2) The copied Cavern asks me to choose a creature type (let's call it "Efreet"), working as intended;
3) The copied Cavern let's me choose "Efreet", but does not function as intended;
4) I get the equivalent of a nonbasic Wastes.
It's 2). Before Vesuva enters the battlefield, replacement effects modify how it enters (that's what 'as this enters' and 'enters with' abilities do, replacement effects that modify the enter-the-battlefield event). First, Vesuva's own effect makes it so it would enter as a copy of Cavern tapped; then, since that gives you an event of a Cavern entering, you get to choose a creature type. 'Efreet' is chosen for that Cavern so its ability will work for Efreet spells.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
The enumeration was possible outcomes he had in mind, not a sequence of steps in MTGO.
Huh. I either read the question very wrong or it was worded in a weird way. It sounded very much like someone trying to figure out why one Cavern of Souls would work as intended, but the second one would not. Which sounds very much like a computer program error, which is why I thought it would be a MTGO question or some such.
Is this a problem with MTGO? Because pieces of cardboard should always function as they should at the table...
Actually, yes it is a situation I encountered on MODO. I had a Cavern on, iirc, Goblin, then I Vesuva'd it and it let me name Human, but the Human one did not give me the uncounterable mana. Though I suspected it was because ... (see below)
In general, Vesuva enters the battlefield already as a copy of the chosen land, so the ETB effects will work, this for example allows it to work as a bounce land (Simic Growth Chamber) in Amulet of Vigor decks. This also applies to clone cards in general "You may have Cloneenter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield". So for example this works with phantasmal image and master of waves, you get new elemental tokens, or with vesuva and glimmerpost you get to gain life, or back to the original issue: when a cavern of souls enters the battlefield you get to choose the creature type for that cavern, vesuva enters as already a perfect copy of cavern so you get to choose the creature type for it.
I hope this helps!
Cavern, like Clone, is not an EtB effect - much like Vesuva is not either. I'd imagine the copied Cavern should work as intended, but when it didn't I also wasn't completely surprised. This issue was around two years ago, when I was still hosting Commander via the Gatherling portal, but I just thought about it some more last night, figured I'd post the question.
Sorry to hear that you're still having difficulties.
On the other hand, thanks for confirming I wasn't crazy. Your terminology sounded too much like an issue with a computerized program to be related to pieces of cardboard, ha! Hope you get it all sorted out though, because your Vesuva just isn't working the way It is defiantly supposed to.
Sorry to hear that you're still having difficulties.
On the other hand, thanks for confirming I wasn't crazy. Your terminology sounded too much like an issue with a computerized program to be related to pieces of cardboard, ha! Hope you get it all sorted out though, because your Vesuva just isn't working the way It is defiantly supposed to.
Also did you use colored mana to cast the human spell? Only colored mana produced by cavern of souls makes the spells uncounterable, the colorless mana does not. It could just have been a bug of course.
No, it was coloured. I clicked the land and it wouldn't let me apply the colour to the Human creature I was casting.
I have Cavern on board, naming, say, let's call it "Atog". I then play Vesuva, naming Cavern as my copy choice. What happens?
1) I now have two Caverns that can play uncounterable Atogs;
2) The copied Cavern asks me to choose a creature type (let's call it "Efreet"), working as intended;
3) The copied Cavern let's me choose "Efreet", but does not function as intended;
4) I get the equivalent of a nonbasic Wastes.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
My mistake!
Actually, yes it is a situation I encountered on MODO. I had a Cavern on, iirc, Goblin, then I Vesuva'd it and it let me name Human, but the Human one did not give me the uncounterable mana. Though I suspected it was because ... (see below)
Cavern, like Clone, is not an EtB effect - much like Vesuva is not either. I'd imagine the copied Cavern should work as intended, but when it didn't I also wasn't completely surprised. This issue was around two years ago, when I was still hosting Commander via the Gatherling portal, but I just thought about it some more last night, figured I'd post the question.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
On the other hand, thanks for confirming I wasn't crazy. Your terminology sounded too much like an issue with a computerized program to be related to pieces of cardboard, ha! Hope you get it all sorted out though, because your Vesuva just isn't working the way It is defiantly supposed to.
An EtB ability would imply it could be responded to. These don't trigger on an EtB, they're set on the resolution of being played.
I'm just glad to see you can copy Cavern as such.
No, it was coloured. I clicked the land and it wouldn't let me apply the colour to the Human creature I was casting.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.