Yes. It's a creature and you own it (it started the game in your library/sideboard). Homeward Path doesn't say "creature card", so that means it's just talking about permanents on the battlefield that happen to be creatures. It doesn't matter what the manifested card's actual type is.
And what about a manifested god, for example Thassa, God of the Sea?
Regarding to the FAQs (9/15/2013: The type-changing ability that can make the God not be a creature functions only on the battlefield. It’s always a creature card in other zones, regardless of your devotion to its color.
) i think it will be not possible to flip it, unless your devotion to blue is 5 or more
Am I right that Sultai Emissary doesn't trigger when it dies if it is manifested? This leaves me to believe that card effects are not activated until they are turned face-up.
Why would Moonmist transform something that a) is not a human and b) does not have the ability to transform?
Because Xenograft makes it a Human, and being a double-faced cards means, according to the rules of the game, that it can be transformed.
Btw, why haven't all these questions been figured out long time ago given that, as I said in my earlier post, Illusionary Mask already produces a similar situation to Manifest?
We can't use the current CR for the game, since the current CR assumes that double-faced permanents always have the "face-up" status, which is obviously not true anymore. Using an old CR's rules entries to try to answer a question about a situation that can only arise with the new set is a bad idea.
The problem never came up with Illusionary Mask, since as of this post, you can't cast DFC's face-down. You can certainly choose a DFC to cast face-down, but the actual instruction of casting it will be ignored.
Not true, the current CR can have a DFC face down, since its in your livrary, also to effects like Clone Shell. A DFC can't be turned face down, what keeps being true even with manifest. But the status as a face down card in your library dont change when manifested.
I somehow find it tragic when an attacking Traveling Philosopher gets blocked by another Traveling Philosopher, which normally results in two dead philosophers. Shouldn't they just sit aside and start discussing?
"This is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I'm quite dizzy with anticipation . . . Or is it the wind? There really is a lot of that now, isn't there? And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming toward me very fast? Very, very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide-sounding name like . . . ow . . . ound . . . round . . . ground! That's it! That's a good name- ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me? Hello Ground!"
Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the Sprouting Phytohydra as it fell was Oh no, not again.
You are referring to cards in the library, which have no status. I was referring to cards that do have status, which are permanents. I don't see how your post refutes mine. If an object is manifested, it turns from a face-down object without the face-down status to a face-down object with the face-down status.
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And what about a manifested god, for example Thassa, God of the Sea?
Regarding to the FAQs (9/15/2013: The type-changing ability that can make the God not be a creature functions only on the battlefield. It’s always a creature card in other zones, regardless of your devotion to its color.
) i think it will be not possible to flip it, unless your devotion to blue is 5 or more
Am I right that Sultai Emissary doesn't trigger when it dies if it is manifested? This leaves me to believe that card effects are not activated until they are turned face-up.
Yes, you can turn Athreos face up if it was manifested, by paying its mana cost (1WB). It doesn't matter what your devotion to white and black is. The only thing that matters is that it has "Creature" in its type line; CEs, including ones that aren't even applying yet, don't matter.
You are right that Sultai Emissary's death trigger won't happen if it is face down when it dies. That's because death triggers, like all leaves-the-battlefield triggers that trigger specifically off a permanent leaving the battlefield, check the game state immediately before the event to see if there are any triggers with matching conditions. Since the Emissary was face down, it didn't have its ability, so it doesn't trigger.
Your conclusion about "effects" not being "activated" doesn't really make much sense ruleswise, though. Are you just talking about death triggers? Those don't work for the reason I explained, but the similar trigger on Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre for example would (if Ulamog was destroyed while face down) because it doesn't trigger specifically from Ulamog leaving the battlefield, so it checks whether the ability exists immediately after the event, when Ulamog is in the graveyard.
If I have a face down manifested creature with the "Whenever X attacks and isn't blocked" trigger such as Pygmy Hippo is there an opportunity between blockers being declared and the trigger to flip it face up so that you can flip it face up after blockers have been declared and still trigger and activate the effect or is the only spot before the trigger that you have priority to flip it face up before/while blockers are being declared?
For any creature is attacks and is unblocked ability the creature will need to be face up as the declare blockers action occurs as immeadiately after that is the only point the game checks to see if any triggered abilities should fire.
If your Pygmy hippo is facedown at that point it is not going to have any abilities so nothing will get added to the stack and unless a player performs another action the game will move onto the combat damage steps
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What happens when the manifested permanent hits the Graveyard?
Lets assume i have an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn manifested and he dies. Do i have to shuffle my graveyard into the library or will he stay in graveyard?
If it the ability does trigger will also the ability of Goblin Boom Keg trigger?
I'll start with the typical one. Goblin Boom Keg has a standard leaves-the-battlefield ability that triggers when it leaves the battlefield (specifically, when it's put into a graveyard from the battlefield), so when checking for triggers if the event occurs, the game looks back in time immediately before the event to see if this trigger's condition is met; in other words, it cares whether the permanent that was put into the graveyard had the leaves-the-battlefield ability as it last existed on the battlefield. In this case, it doesn't because it's face down. It won't trigger.
Emrakul is different because its trigger to shuffle your graveyard into your library doesn't care where it came from, and doesn't trigger specifically on it leaving the battlefield; so the game checks for triggers the usual way, immediately after the event occurs. In this case, that means what matters is whether it has the triggered ability in the graveyard, which Emrakul does. It triggers.
so I had an idea for a beyond silly combo in modern and I want to make sure it works before I trade for all the big creatures I need. manifest top card of deck, any big beast with and ETB will do but lets do Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for funsies. now next turn attack with the 2/2 morph emrakul and wait for blocks or burn (and if they don't bother with it just keep attacking with it until they do). after they block or try to burn it play Undying Evil then the morph dies and as it had no +1/+1 counter, it returns as Emrakul, The Aeons Torn with a +1/+1 counter on it (as the new creature has no memory of the previous instance) and the ETB effect takes place giving me an extra turn. from all that I've read this should work but I want to make sure that I haven't missed anything regarding the combination of manifest and undying as I cannot find any discussion of the interaction of the two anywhere.
so I had an idea for a beyond silly combo in modern and I want to make sure it works before I trade for all the big creatures I need. manifest top card of deck, any big beast with and ETB will do but lets do Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for funsies.
If Emrakul had an enter-the-battlefield trigger, it would work as you say. But none of its abilities trigger on entering the battlefield.
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ah that's right, forgot it was cast not EBT, in that case I'll just replace it with Worldspine Wurm so that I have 15 damage ready for turn 3 and insurance!
What happens if I have an Athreos, god of Passage on my board and a manifest creature I control dies? Specifically if Athreo's ability triggers (and I'm pretty sure it would) would I get the card if the manifested card isn't a creature but an instant or sorcery and my opponent didn't pay 3 life?
What happens if I have an Athreos, god of Passage on my board and a manifest creature I control dies? Specifically if Athreo's ability triggers (and I'm pretty sure it would) would I get the card if the manifested card isn't a creature but an instant or sorcery and my opponent didn't pay 3 life?
It was a creature when it left the battlefield, so Athreos's ability triggers. Athreos's ability can 'track' the card in the graveyard after that, even if it's not a creature card there. As the card goes back to the hand and not battlefield, being an instant or sorcery isn't significant here.
Yes it will, when it was last on the battlefield it was a vanilla 2/2 so it did not have the stack ability that shuffles itself into your library when it would otherwise go to the graveyard.
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All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
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If a Darksteel Colossus is manifested and then dies, does it go to the graveyard?
Darksteel Colossus' ability isn't a "dies" trigger, so it doesn't trigger from the battlefield and doesn't use information from the battlefield. It triggers from the graveyard and uses information from the graveyard. At the time it would trigger, the Colossus has the ability, so it does trigger.
Darksteel Colossus doesn't have a trigger, its a replacement effect. Since its a replacement effect, it applies before the event it would modify happens, in this case Colossus going to the GY from anywhere. However, when the Colossus goes to the GY, it doesn't have any abilities, including its replacement effect, so it goes to the graveyard. Once its in the GY, the replacement effect exists again but the event it would try to modify already happened so it does nothing.
I just want to make sure about something before I spring for these cards.
I manifest an instant/sorcery using Whisperwood Elemental with Temur Sabertooth on the battlefield. I can pay 1G with the Sabertooth and return any manifested card to my hand right? It doesn't matter that it is an instant or sorcery correct?
I just want to make sure about something before I spring for these cards.
I manifest an instant/sorcery using Whisperwood Elemental with Temur Sabertooth on the battlefield. I can pay 1G with the Sabertooth and return any manifested card to my hand right? It doesn't matter that it is an instant or sorcery correct?
Sure you can do that. It doesn't matter what the card is, at the time of the sabertooth's ability resolving it was a creature on the battlefield, so you can return it to your hand (after revealing it of course).
What happens if you need to manifest the top card of your library when your library is empty? Do you lose the game (like drawing out)? I'm guessing it will just not resolve as there is no target.
What happens if you need to manifest the top card of your library when your library is empty? Do you lose the game (like drawing out)? I'm guessing it will just not resolve as there is no target.
Manifesting doesn't cause you to draw any cards, so you don't lose. Nothing happens because there's nothing to manifest.
Also, be careful not to use "target" except when something actually targets. The action of manifesting doesn't target. Also, there's a difference between not resolving and resolving without effect, especially if there are additional non-impossible actions.
Example: Soul Summons will resolve (it has no target), but do nothing if your library is empty.
Second example: Jeskai Infiltrator's combat-damage trigger will resolve even if your library is empty. It will exile itself face down and manifest itself, despite being unable to exile and manifest a card from the library.
If a manifested permanent is unsummoned, does it have to be revealed as normal (like with old morphs)?
My understanding of the rules is that any time the manifested card changes its area of play you have to reveal it. So any time it would leave the battlefield to go anywhere else (graveyard, exile, hand) you have to reveal it.
To be quite honest though, I don't really understand why it has to be revealed. With Morph, it made sense, because it's an honesty thing. However, since Manifest works with every card, I don't understand why it needs to be revealed.
Haha true, CMC vs mana cast.
Ok, so it works just as a thought. Sometimes we over look simple rules. :/
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I'm really hoping that is not the case. I would like to run Athreos, God of Passage with Qarsi High Priest and not being able to flip it would hurt.
Am I right that Sultai Emissary doesn't trigger when it dies if it is manifested? This leaves me to believe that card effects are not activated until they are turned face-up.
Not true, the current CR can have a DFC face down, since its in your livrary, also to effects like Clone Shell. A DFC can't be turned face down, what keeps being true even with manifest. But the status as a face down card in your library dont change when manifested.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
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Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Yes, you can turn Athreos face up if it was manifested, by paying its mana cost (1WB). It doesn't matter what your devotion to white and black is. The only thing that matters is that it has "Creature" in its type line; CEs, including ones that aren't even applying yet, don't matter.
You are right that Sultai Emissary's death trigger won't happen if it is face down when it dies. That's because death triggers, like all leaves-the-battlefield triggers that trigger specifically off a permanent leaving the battlefield, check the game state immediately before the event to see if there are any triggers with matching conditions. Since the Emissary was face down, it didn't have its ability, so it doesn't trigger.
Your conclusion about "effects" not being "activated" doesn't really make much sense ruleswise, though. Are you just talking about death triggers? Those don't work for the reason I explained, but the similar trigger on Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre for example would (if Ulamog was destroyed while face down) because it doesn't trigger specifically from Ulamog leaving the battlefield, so it checks whether the ability exists immediately after the event, when Ulamog is in the graveyard.
If I have a face down manifested creature with the "Whenever X attacks and isn't blocked" trigger such as Pygmy Hippo is there an opportunity between blockers being declared and the trigger to flip it face up so that you can flip it face up after blockers have been declared and still trigger and activate the effect or is the only spot before the trigger that you have priority to flip it face up before/while blockers are being declared?
Would love to m nom nom some mana.
For any creature is attacks and is unblocked ability the creature will need to be face up as the declare blockers action occurs as immeadiately after that is the only point the game checks to see if any triggered abilities should fire.
If your Pygmy hippo is facedown at that point it is not going to have any abilities so nothing will get added to the stack and unless a player performs another action the game will move onto the combat damage steps
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
I'll start with the typical one. Goblin Boom Keg has a standard leaves-the-battlefield ability that triggers when it leaves the battlefield (specifically, when it's put into a graveyard from the battlefield), so when checking for triggers if the event occurs, the game looks back in time immediately before the event to see if this trigger's condition is met; in other words, it cares whether the permanent that was put into the graveyard had the leaves-the-battlefield ability as it last existed on the battlefield. In this case, it doesn't because it's face down. It won't trigger.
Emrakul is different because its trigger to shuffle your graveyard into your library doesn't care where it came from, and doesn't trigger specifically on it leaving the battlefield; so the game checks for triggers the usual way, immediately after the event occurs. In this case, that means what matters is whether it has the triggered ability in the graveyard, which Emrakul does. It triggers.
It was a creature when it left the battlefield, so Athreos's ability triggers. Athreos's ability can 'track' the card in the graveyard after that, even if it's not a creature card there. As the card goes back to the hand and not battlefield, being an instant or sorcery isn't significant here.
It is no different from what happens to an animated Celestial Colonnade or Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker that dies.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Darksteel Colossus' ability isn't a "dies" trigger, so it doesn't trigger from the battlefield and doesn't use information from the battlefield. It triggers from the graveyard and uses information from the graveyard. At the time it would trigger, the Colossus has the ability, so it does trigger.Arg freakin' dammit, I have Eldrazi on the brain.
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I manifest an instant/sorcery using Whisperwood Elemental with Temur Sabertooth on the battlefield. I can pay 1G with the Sabertooth and return any manifested card to my hand right? It doesn't matter that it is an instant or sorcery correct?
Sure you can do that. It doesn't matter what the card is, at the time of the sabertooth's ability resolving it was a creature on the battlefield, so you can return it to your hand (after revealing it of course).
Manifesting doesn't cause you to draw any cards, so you don't lose. Nothing happens because there's nothing to manifest.
Also, be careful not to use "target" except when something actually targets. The action of manifesting doesn't target. Also, there's a difference between not resolving and resolving without effect, especially if there are additional non-impossible actions.
Example: Soul Summons will resolve (it has no target), but do nothing if your library is empty.
Second example: Jeskai Infiltrator's combat-damage trigger will resolve even if your library is empty. It will exile itself face down and manifest itself, despite being unable to exile and manifest a card from the library.
Yes, that is true for any face down permanent. It must be revealed when it changes zones or when the game ends.
My understanding of the rules is that any time the manifested card changes its area of play you have to reveal it. So any time it would leave the battlefield to go anywhere else (graveyard, exile, hand) you have to reveal it.
To be quite honest though, I don't really understand why it has to be revealed. With Morph, it made sense, because it's an honesty thing. However, since Manifest works with every card, I don't understand why it needs to be revealed.